Divine Soul: Is it really that good?

[5eNeedsDarksun]

So, I'm a fan of Sorcerers. I've played a Dragon and a Shadow and thought they were both great. I read a lot about how some people love the Divine Soul, I think based largely on the access to Cleric spells.
In my experience I never had an issue finding good spells to cast from the Sorcerer list, so the big hook for this sub-class for me basically solves a problem that doesn't really exist. And truthfully I don't love the theme as much as the other 2.
Anyway, maybe someone out there can convince me. Is the Divine Soul Sorcerer actually that good?

[MaxWilson]

For you, no. For you it's a solution in search of an problem.

For people that think the sorc list is poor, roughly doubling its size is kind of a big deal. Also it's an big deal for people who think clerics are lame, because from this angle you get access to the sorc list, metamagic, and to warlock invocations via warlock dips.

But if you already don't miss spells like Symbol, Simulacrum, Evard's Black Tentacles, Contingency, Wall of Force, Animate Dead, Tiny Servant, etc., and are perfectly happy with base sorcerer spells, you're not really the target audience for this subclass.

I like it though, would rather have a Divine Soul in the party than a cleric.

[Misterwhisper]

For you, no. For you it's a solution in search of an problem.

For people that think the sorc list is poor, roughly doubling its size is kind of a big deal. Also it's an big deal for people who think clerics are lame, because from this angle you get access to the sorc list, metamagic, and to warlock invocations via warlock dips.

But if you already don't miss spells like Symbol, Simulacrum, Evard's Black Tentacles, Contingency, Wall of Force, Animate Dead, Tiny Servant, etc., and are perfectly happy with base sorcerer spells, you're not really the target audience for this subclass.

I like it though, would rather have a Divine Soul in the party than a cleric.

Same here, I will take a divine soul twinning a heal or a buff all day.

I think it says more to the Cleric being kind of Meh.

Arcana is nice, but because you get to steal some good arcana spells.

[sithlordnergal]

So, I'm a fan of Sorcerers. I've played a Dragon and a Shadow and thought they were both great. I read a lot about how some people love the Divine Soul, I think based largely on the access to Cleric spells.
In my experience I never had an issue finding good spells to cast from the Sorcerer list, so the big hook for this sub-class for me basically solves a problem that doesn't really exist. And truthfully I don't love the theme as much as the other 2.
Anyway, maybe someone out there can convince me. Is the Divine Soul Sorcerer actually that good?

So, Divine Soul is as good as you've heard, simply because they have a lot more spells they can choose from. Don't get me wrong, as a Sorcerer player myself, I tend to go Wild Magic, I feel the Sorcerer has a fine selection of spells. But having access to Cleric spells is still extremely useful to have access to. You gain key Cleric spells like Healing Word, Spiritual Weapon, Animate Dead, Revivify, Death Ward, True Resurrection, Anti-Magic Field, and Heal. It basically lets you take all the healing and support a Cleric can provide and mixes it with the blasting power that a Sorcerer normally has.

The only other class with that sort of potential to mix Support/Blasting is the Bard with their Magical Secrets...and even then the Divine Soul has easier and better access to it all. On top of that you make an excellent healer, letting your allies to reroll a dice while healing, and you eventually are able to heal up to half your HP.

That said, the Divine Soul Sorcerer is far, far better in a multiclass build. Specifically, its amazing on a Paladin/Sorcerer, giving you access to super thematic spells that help Paladins wreck shop. Things like Spiritual Weapon and Spirit Guardians are even more amazing on a Soradin then they are on Clerics.

[Tanarii]

I think more than anything else it feels like a good role/type. Lightly/no armored caster priest with blastiness. You could do that with a light cleric of course but that's wisdom based. Some folks might prefer Cha based.

[CTurbo]

I think Divine Soul is possibly the best support class in the game. So yeah it's really good.

[paladinn]

I would agree, if all you wanted was cleric spells, just be a cleric. You get better armor and some sweet domain abilities, better combat, turn undead, etc.

That said, divine souls are good for a number of things. You get arcane And divine spells, so you can heal and fireball both. Metamagic is really cool if used properly. If your DM allows it, the elemental spell option is The reason to be a sorcerer instead of a wizard.

Multiclassing is awesome with a DS, especially with a paladin (recommend vengeance) and/or a warlock (hexblade). One level of warlock gets you CHA SADness; paladin can use the DS spell slots for smites. So much synergy.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

Thanks for the responses. Some things to think about. I did enjoy playing a Light Cleric which seems to cover some of the same territory, so from a thematic point of view maybe I just need to get my head around it.

[MaxWilson]

Thanks for the responses. Some things to think about. I did enjoy playing a Light Cleric which seems to cover some of the same territory, so from a thematic point of view maybe I just need to get my head around it.

The main thing to keep in mind is that you have very, very few spells known, so you have to be in the kind of mindset that says (approximately) "as long as I can Bless and Revivify people, Spiritual Weapon or Fireball enemies, Shield myself, and drop some Webs or Fear for crowd control and Polymorph for buffing, I'm happy." You have more powers than one of the X-Men but fewer powers than a D&D wizard.

(Or to put it differently, you have fewer powers than Harry Dresden is capable of employing but more different types of magic than Harry actively uses in a typical novel.)

[AvalancheSpring]

I think Divine Soul is possibly the best support class in the game. So yeah it's really good.

Bard says "Hold my Lute"

But yeah, Divine Soul is also pretty great :)

[NecessaryWeevil]

Divine Soul was my choice when I thought, "I want to play a healer/support again but I want something different from a Cleric (or Bard)."

[Contrast]

I have a Divine Soul sorc at the moment and I'm enjoying it much more than I anticipated (though I cheated and picked up some levels of Hexblade for the armour and EB).

Being able to pick up Healing Word and Bless is really good though I'm not as convinced more broadly that its as powerful as people say. They really locked down metamagic and there's remarkably little synergy that you can exploit your metamagics on with the cleric spell list that you wouldn't already be able to do similarily with the sorc spell list.

Admittedly my experience may be skewed because Spiritual Weapon is a great spell but with Hex, Hexblades Curse and Quicken my bonus action already felt pretty clogged a lot of the time.

You can pick up the best cleric spells but as a sorc you really need to be optimising your metamagic to justify why you aren't a bard or wizard and I'm not convinced the cleric spell list really helps with that.


So in summary - more Healing Word is always good but if something else appeals to you thematically I wouldn't say its such a huge deal that I'd play it over something I preferred the sound of.

[Dudu]

You know what, it's crazy, but I see the Favored Soul as almost an strict uprade of... Arcana Domain cleric.
Why? Because they have a better access to non cleric spells (technically, their base class spells).

So, rather, I think the Favored Soul fixes a cleric problem, which is, how they have amazing option in early level but slow down to a crawl. When you are a Favored Soul, you can have all the bread and butter cleric spells from early game (Bless, Spiritual Wpn, Spirit Guardians, Healing Word, Revivify...). But instead of dealing with the lackluster high level options clerics do, you have access to the busted high level of sorcerers.

Plus, metamagic grants you interesting options. A well know one is twin casting otherwise single target spells. A less well known one is subtle casting crucial spells bypassing Counterspell by enemies. The cleric is great when what seemed to be a TPK turned out to be a cleric with 1HP (due to Deathward) casting Mass Healing Word and bringing back all his allies. But even that perfect example of cleric awesomeness can be foiled by a cheeky Counterspell (if your DM is a sociopath, but they do exist). Not for sorcerers.

Want another reason? Sorcerers use CHA instead of WIS. Yes, Wisdom, in a vacuum, is better because it is keyed to a much more common save and used skills, however, as far as multiclass potential go, Charisma is king. Bards, Paladins and Warlocks all benefit from it, and you can have that - beat down, I admit - dip in Hexblade to make yourself a very capable melee combatant.

And... one more thing, in case I didn't sell you Favored Souls yet: They get Con save right of the bat, which is a dream for spellcasters.

So, rather than seeing Favored Soul solely as a different way of playing Sorcerer, it helps you to see it as a different (and very powerful) way of playing a Cleric (which is a very strong class to begin with). 100% worth a shot.

[Satori01]

It doesn't surprise me that many posts reference the Divine Soul as part of a multi-classed build. The breadth of the spell choices it has, exacerbates the so few spells known by the Sorcerer class.

The subclass suffers also from abilities, that while useful, are written in a dull manner, and are very derivative of prior editions. How many people use the Divine Soul subclass for single classed sorcerers?

Being able to Prepare spells from the cleric spell list, is the whole point......from day to day a cleric can change their approach drastically by swapping options from the cleric list.

[MrStabby]

Yes. It is that powerful.

I think, perhaps naturally, it is best to see it as a hybrid of sorcerer and cleric with some of the good and bad of each.

It does miss out on important cleric stuff. Armour, shields and ways to make long days tolerable. Clerics get boosts to cantrips or make adequate melee attacks for when they need to conserve resources. Clerics have access to more spells and can swap them about. Channel divinity can vary from useless to being an extremely powerful short rest resource. The cleric relative to the sorcerer avoids failing concentration saves by being hit less with a higher AC rather than con save proficiency. You dont give up these things lightly.

On the other hand, clerics suffer a bit from a lack of spells to cast that dont use concentration and solid damage spells - those turn to turn things like fireball. Being based on a sorcerer fixes this. Not saying cleric spells like guiding bolt are not good, but they fade with level.

Divine soul is kind of pick your poison.

Divine soul is pretty great though from its spell list alone. Yes, it needs careful crafting but there are so many great cleric spells that are more universally applicable than the sorcerer spells and spells that upcast really well that I find that counterintuitively it takes pressure off the limited spells known rather than adding it.

Then you have metamagic. This is a powerful, game changing ability - no doubt. My experience is that its benefits depend greatly on the type of campaign you have though. Isolated adventures where you can prebuff with extended duration non-concentration cleric spells - almost broken. Grueling multi-day slogs through megadungeons with no resources left at the end of each day - still powerful. Social game where subtle spell shines - awesome as any sorcerer is.

I find that I get good mileage out of using sorcery points to offset the weakness relative to clerics - sustainability. What you do when not using spell slots. I find twinned cantrips to be a powerful way of stretching my resources through the day.

So yeah, divine soul is pretty awesome.

[Bobthewizard]

I think it depends on the level for me. At low levels, I find divine soul sorcerers spread too thin. They have too few preparations and no armor. So at low levels I would prefer to play a light or arcana cleric for a similar feel.

At high levels though, for me the cleric spell list pales in comparison to the sorcerer list. So starting at level 7 or 9 or so, I would much rather play a divine soul sorcerer than a cleric.

[Foxydono]

I'm not a fan, but I'm also nog a fan of healing or clerics. I think the sorcerer spells are just fine. Healing in 5e is overrated and should only be done when someone falls to 0 hit points. That being said, I do like sorcerers and if I had to play a healer type, then I would play either a paladin or devine soul sorcerer. Most likely with a hexblade dip.

Anyway, to each their own, but to me the subclass adds very little value.

[stoutstien]

Divine soul definitely comes in their own in the later tiers as one of the best summoning focused classes. Before that they do just fine with buffing and blasting but must be very careful about their spell selection.

[jaappleton]

Divine Soul is quite good, especially if you play with Unearthed Arcana. I am referring specifically to the Class Variant UA, in which Sorcs can swap out a spell on a long rest as opposed to when they level up. (Side Note: Jeremy Crawford has stated it was intended to also be able to swap Metamagic in the same way. They simply forgot to include it in the document.)

I find playing a Sorcerer well, mechanically, requires a bit of a tactical mind. Using Twinned to Haste the Barbarian and Paladin together can radically alter an encounter. It seems like an obvious thing, but.... you'd be surprised how often I've seen people not take advantage of the raw power a Sorcerer has, and I'm not talking about the ability to hurl a Fireball.

IMO, Clerics are a bit of a better option depending on how you want to play. Their power comes not necessary from their spell list (Which is a solid B- overall) but in the resource management and abilities granted by their Domain. Tempest getting extra damage out of a single spell slot through Channel Divinity, or Grave saving on healing spell slots because they negated a Crit. If you're looking for a little more of a relaxed, closer to auto-pilot feel, I recommend Cleric for these reasons, plus its higher AC.

If you prefer a more tactical style of play where you know, outright, you can radically alter a battle through things like Twinned Shield of Faith, or Heightened Hold Person to paralyze a tough foe, you're going to enjoy Sorcerer so much more.

And that's the strength of the Divine Soul. Now you can double your spell list to have that many more spells to choose from with which you can alter the landscape with. For some, it can be an overwhelming choice; So many excellent spells to choose from, how can I possibly leave ______ off the list?

[patchyman]

I love Divine Souls, but mostly for narrative reasons. Like others have said, Divine Souls are more of an alternative for healing classes than for Sorcerers.

Want to play a cleric, but find that a priest trained in medium or heavy armor makes no sense? Divine Sorcerer.

Want to play a charismatic preacher type rather than the wise counseler? Divine Sorcerer!

[Pex]

I have a Divine Soul sorc at the moment and I'm enjoying it much more than I anticipated (though I cheated and picked up some levels of Hexblade for the armour and EB).

Being able to pick up Healing Word and Bless is really good though I'm not as convinced more broadly that its as powerful as people say. They really locked down metamagic and there's remarkably little synergy that you can exploit your metamagics on with the cleric spell list that you wouldn't already be able to do similarily with the sorc spell list.

Admittedly my experience may be skewed because Spiritual Weapon is a great spell but with Hex, Hexblades Curse and Quicken my bonus action already felt pretty clogged a lot of the time.

You can pick up the best cleric spells but as a sorc you really need to be optimising your metamagic to justify why you aren't a bard or wizard and I'm not convinced the cleric spell list really helps with that.


So in summary - more Healing Word is always good but if something else appeals to you thematically I wouldn't say its such a huge deal that I'd play it over something I preferred the sound of.

The key metamagic for Divine Soul is Twin. Twin Healing Word is a big deal, especially in tough fights for the pop-up healing. Twin Guiding Bolt is more than blasting. It can give advantage to attacking two bad guys. Twin Guidance. Twin Sanctuary. Twin Shield of Faith. Twin Cure Wounds. Twin Hold Person. Twin Lesser Restoration. You can get a lot of mileage from low level spells.

[Amechra]

You can certainly do worse, as far as Sorcerer subclasses go. Clerics have a pretty solid spell list, and you basically trade versatility for the ability to use their spells better than they can.

I think part of the reputation it has is because it kinda forces you to view the Sorcerer as a support class if you want to use it most effectively. And the dirty secret behind the sorcerer is that they can make better use of any buffs they know, since they can use Distant/Extend/Twin on them.

[Blood of Gaea]

Divine Soul isn't great because the Sorcerer list is weak or that the Cleric list is unbelievably amazing. It's good because Cleric offers things that Sorcerer does not. If you're building a support caster, it's an easy decision to pick out some key spells like Healing Word, Heal, Aid, and the like. It's also quite good for a Sorcadin, because some of the Cleric spells fit well on a melee build, with a special note going towards Spirit Guardians.

Where Divine Soul does not shine is if you wish to play a controller or blaster, a different subclass will serve you better here.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

Some interesting comparisons to Clerics here that are making me think, so thanks again. I think I'd really have to weigh the benefits of a Sorcerer base vs. losing armor and hp off the hop compared to say a Light or Tempest Cleric if that was the type of character I was interested in. I think some of the responses that mentioned that Divine Souls make good multi classes and get better at higher levels make sense... though I've got to say I never felt the need to multi class my Hill Dwarf Light Cleric. He just got better and tankier the further he went. That said, I do recognize that the metamagic benefits can change encounters.

[Dork_Forge]

Some interesting comparisons to Clerics here that are making me think, so thanks again. I think I'd really have to weigh the benefits of a Sorcerer base vs. losing armor and hp off the hop compared to say a Light or Tempest Cleric if that was the type of character I was interested in. I think some of the responses that mentioned that Divine Souls make good multi classes and get better at higher levels make sense... though I've got to say I never felt the need to multi class my Hill Dwarf Light Cleric. He just got better and tankier the further he went. That said, I do recognize that the metamagic benefits can change encounters.

In a lot of ways you benefit more from not multiclassing on any Sorcerer, the more Sorc levels you have the more Sorcery points you have to play with and you won't be stalling your slot/spell progression.

In my opinion they're a strong option because of Metamagic (Twinning a Guiding Bolt is a great Blaster/support mix strategy, twinning Death Ward and Healing Word are also fantastic, as is Extending the duration of potent buffs) and that they introduce a short rest resource (Favored by the Gods) to the Sorcerer.

A couple tips: You get one Cleric spell based on your alignment, you can change this spell out to be whatever Cleric spell you want on level up, so just think of it like expanding your Spells Known in general, it does go a small way to helping the spells known burden.

On the same token, Magic Initiate: Cleric would also be a decent option for you since you should be able to cast whatever spell you get from it with spell slots as Cleric Spells are now Sorcerer spells (some DMs may not approve this, it's hardly game breaking though), you can't swap this out so a good mainstay spell like Guiding Bolt or Healing Word is advisable.

[Pex]

On the same token, Magic Initiate: Cleric would also be a decent option for you since you should be able to cast whatever spell you get from it with spell slots as Cleric Spells are now Sorcerer spells (some DMs may not approve this, it's hardly game breaking though), you can't swap this out so a good mainstay spell like Guiding Bolt or Healing Word is advisable.

I'd do it as Sorcerer for Mage Armor. Get one free casting per day, and it doesn't take up a Known Spell Slot. Know Shield spell for emergencies.

I wouldn't take Spirit Guardians as a Divine Soul. You don't want to be close to melee. Fireball is fine.

It might be worth considering, if it's your taste, to oversupply yourself with 1st level spells. You'd want Shield and Absorb Elements from Sorcerer, and take the good Cleric spells as well. Let Bless be your Concentration spell, but also consider Bane and Shield of Faith to use when needed. Have Healing Word and Guiding Bolt, spells that increase in effect cast at 2nd level. Take Fire Bolt and Toll The Dead for damage Cantrips. You are forgoing spells like Hold Person and Phantasmal Force, but you'll be twinning a lot. Without the pressure of having so many 2nd level spells known you'll feel you can afford to use your 2nd level slots to cast first level spells or convert to Sorcery points to fuel more metamagic. The idea is you're Buffing Blaster character, be team support while also directly attacking. Third level spells are your big guns like Fireball. You'll probably want to stick with Sorcerer spells here for Haste and Counterspell as well. 4th level spells go minimal such as Polymorph and Death Ward only, affordable to get rid of Bane and Shield of Faith now to make room. 5th level spells go big again. The hard part is your own self-imposed incentive. You want to cast as high a level spell as you can. You need to learn to accept that low level spells are still that good at higher level play. It's not for everyone. It's a strategy not the only one.

[Dork_Forge]

I'd do it as Sorcerer for Mage Armor. Get one free casting per day, and it doesn't take up a Known Spell Slot. Know Shield spell for emergencies.

Mage Armor is a solid choice as well, going Cleric was partially motivated by being able to grab cantrips out of the Sorcerer's wheel house, Guidance being the prime choice.

[Pex]

Mage Armor is a solid choice as well, going Cleric was partially motivated by being able to grab cantrips out of the Sorcerer's wheel house, Guidance being the prime choice.

You can take Guidance as a Divine Soul. Use Magic Initiate to pick up the Sorcerer Cantrips you had to give up for Cleric Cantrips. Get Mage Hand and Minor Illusion for example. Variant Human for the win.

[RSP]

I'd do it as Sorcerer for Mage Armor.

I’d suggest doing Shield over MA for Magic Initiate: Sorc. On the off chance you get something like a Robe if the Archmage that gives you a new AC calculation, MA becomes useless, and you’ve wasted your free 1x/day casting.

Shield never goes out of style and having it as a 1x/day free casting will always be useful.

[Blood of Gaea]

I’d suggest doing Shield over MA for Magic Initiate: Sorc. On the off chance you get something like a Robe if the Archmage that gives you a new AC calculation, MA becomes useless, and you’ve wasted your free 1x/day casting.

Shield never goes out of style and having it as a 1x/day free casting will always be useful.

There's always Find Familiar, just take Wizard instead of Sorcerer and don't pick stat dependent cantrips.