Why Aren't There Half-Dwarves?

[ZenHeathen]

I've always wondered why there are half-elves and half-orcs, but no half-dwarves. I can only imagine there's a reason, and that it gets mentioned somewhere, but I've never come across it (or maybe did once and don't recall).

[Anymage]

Are you looking for an in-universe or an out-of-universe explanation? Because ultimately for the latter, no writer has been interested enough in the concept to stat them out, playtest out the rough edges, and write them up.

[MaxWilson]

I've always wondered why there are half-elves and half-orcs, but no half-dwarves. I can only imagine there's a reason, and that it gets mentioned somewhere, but I've never come across it (or maybe did once and don't recall).

They're called Mul and they are as tall as humans but stronger and tougher. Apparently dwarf shortness is recessive.

They're primarily a Darksun thing, but there's no real reason you couldn't model one as a variant human, e.g. +1 Str/Con plus Heavy Armor Master. (Total: +2 Str, +1 Con, 3 damage resistance in heavy armor.)

[JackPhoenix]

Because Tolkien didn't created half-dwarves for Gary Gygax to nick for that new game he was working on.

Also, Mul are a thing in Dark Sun, though that setting isn't officially supported in 5e.

[johnbragg]

I've always wondered why there are half-elves and half-orcs, but no half-dwarves. I can only imagine there's a reason, and that it gets mentioned somewhere, but I've never come across it (or maybe did once and don't recall).

Basically, half-elves and half-orcs reference gross sexual fantasies / archetypes. Half-orcs, in early editions, were always / nearly-always the result of rape, so you've got your trope right there of the (white) maiden taken forcefully and defiled by the culturally inferior, cosmetically ugly but physically dominant Evil Other. So there's that.

And D&D elves are Tolkien-based, very pretty, male teenage lust objects. (Half-elves also reference Tolkien, with Aragorn marrying Arwen.)

(It occurs to me that, during 3rd edition, you have those same tropes revisited, giving rise to PC Aasimar and Tieflings.)

Dwarves don't ring either of those bells, so nobody much worried about statting up half-dwarves, except for the Mul in Dark Sun, as others above have noted.

[CharonsHelper]

(Half-elves also reference Tolkien, with Aragorn marrying Arwen.)

In D&D terms, Aragorn was a half-elf himself, as the Men of Numenor are descended partially from elves.

[Tanarii]

They existed in Forgotten Realms per the FR wiki, and Dragonlance (Races of Ansalon 2e).

[Naanomi]

(It occurs to me that, during 3rd edition, you have those same tropes revisited, giving rise to PC Aasimar and Tieflings.)

Aasimar and Tieflings are both 2e concepts, and were both standardly playable races in Planescape

Breeding in DnD has a lot to do with mystical and not biological forces, especially the will of the creator races. Elves can breed with men because the creator gods of men are either absent or unknown (a few variations of the specifics exist); and the Elven gods didn't like to restrain their children. Likewise, Orcs and men can reproduce because the Orcish pantheon sees reproduction as another form of dominance. However, Elves and Orcs cannot mate because their Gods both oppose it based on historical grudges.

The creators of the Dwarven race are traditionalists for whom heritage and ancestry is important, and thus don't allow breeding with other races at all (outside of the races they cannot control... Outsiders and their planetouched decendents and the overwhelming power of draconic influence supersede other rules). The exception is Mul on Darksun who: A) have to be intentionally bred, B) it is sometimes implied magic is involved in the process, and C) is on one of the few Prime worlds that the Gods cannot influence at all

[Luccan]

They existed in Forgotten Realms per the FR wiki, and Dragonlance (Races of Ansalon 2e).

I think in FR they're still mostly statted as Dwarves, though, with the reason Half-Dwarves exist in the first place apparently being fertility issues among the dwarven population of Faerun.

[MrStabby]

Basically, half-elves and half-orcs reference gross sexual fantasies / archetypes. Half-orcs, in early editions, were always / nearly-always the result of rape, so you've got your trope right there of the (white) maiden taken forcefully and defiled by the culturally inferior, cosmetically ugly but physically dominant Evil Other. So there's that.

And D&D elves are Tolkien-based, very pretty, male teenage lust objects. (Half-elves also reference Tolkien, with Aragorn marrying Arwen.)

(It occurs to me that, during 3rd edition, you have those same tropes revisited, giving rise to PC Aasimar and Tieflings.)

Dwarves don't ring either of those bells, so nobody much worried about statting up half-dwarves, except for the Mul in Dark Sun, as others above have noted.

Well, probaby Elrond Half Elven would be the more obvious example.



Dwarfs - well I would ask what role would they fill. But to be honest I could ask that of a LOT of the racesinD&D, not least half elves. I guess that Half X characters can establish that interbreeding is possible and onece you have that established, how many more do you need?

Frankly, I just don't think there is the demand. Half elves remain because they were already in. Half dwarfs are not added because they don't think many people want to play them. What pattern of attibuted would they have that couldn't be represented by another type of dwarf? And for the same mechanics, do we think people would prefer to be a dwarf or a hybrid? I think that there is a belief that the explanation with the stronger cultural identity will win out.

[Magicspook]

Because dwarves just spring out of holes in the ground.

Didn't you pay attention?

[Luccan]

Well, probaby Elrond Half Elven would be the more obvious example.



Dwarfs - well I would ask what role would they fill. But to be honest I could ask that of a LOT of the racesinD&D, not least half elves. I guess that Half X characters can establish that interbreeding is possible and onece you have that established, how many more do you need?

Frankly, I just don't think there is the demand. Half elves remain because they were already in. Half dwarfs are not added because they don't think many people want to play them. What pattern of attibuted would they have that couldn't be represented by another type of dwarf? And for the same mechanics, do we think people would prefer to be a dwarf or a hybrid? I think that there is a belief that the explanation with the stronger cultural identity will win out.

It's notable that for most of D&D (really just until the 5e Eberron reprint of Orcs), Half-Orc was more a way to play/have a less stupid Orc. Avoiding any accusations of real world issues, there was very little difference between the two beyond Half-Orcs being slightly weaker and a good deal brighter. They actually have very little in common with their Human parent. Half-Elves, meanwhile, were basically able to act like a Human and an Elf, though were never quite as good as either (again, until 5e). Most hybrid races follow the Half-Orc model, so unless you're asserting real differences from their non-human heritage there's probably not much point in putting together a Half-Dwarf. Just make a Dwarf and call them a half.

Oh, there's also the Derro, but they've never been playable and they don't seem to be half-dwarves in every edition, but they were in 3rd. They're also all completely insane.

[MaxWilson]

In D&D terms, Aragorn was a half-elf himself, as the Men of Numenor are descended partially from elves.

Wasn't Aragorn something like ninety years old at the time of The Two Towers? He definitely does not age like a vanilla human.

Aasimar and Tieflings are both 2e concepts, and were both standardly playable races in Planescape

AD&D Tieflings though are not necessarily fiendish in ancestry or origin, just plane-touched. IIRC you can have a Tiefling born to two vanilla humans. (I'm not sure about Aasimar.)

It's notable that for most of D&D (really just until the 5e Eberron reprint of Orcs), Half-Orc was more a way to play/have a less stupid Orc. Avoiding any accusations of real world issues, there was very little difference between the two beyond Half-Orcs being slightly weaker and a good deal brighter. They actually have very little in common with their Human parent. (A) Half-Elves, meanwhile, were basically able to act like a Human and an Elf, though were never quite as good as either (again, until 5e). Most hybrid races follow the Half-Orc model, so unless you're asserting real differences from their non-human heritage there's probably not much point in putting together a Half-Dwarf. Just make a Dwarf and call them a half.

Oh, there's also the Derro, but they've never been playable and they don't seem to be half-dwarves in every edition, but they were in 3rd. They're also all completely insane.

(A) They're better than either at multiclassing. Half-elves in AD&D (2nd ed.) have more multiclass combos open to them than anyone else including unique combos such as Fighter/Mage/Cleric, Fighter/Mage/Thief, and Fighter/Mage/Druid.

[ZenHeathen]

...the overwhelming power of draconic influence supersede other rules...

Now I'm wondering about dragon/dwarf hybrids...

[Luccan]

Now I'm wondering about dragon/dwarf hybrids...

Technically possible in multiple ways throughout the editions, but I feel it should be noted in 3e when the core races all got unique dragon hybrids the Dwarf one explicitly was a magical response to being enslaved by Red Dragons and not a result of purposeful intermingling by either party.

Edit: Scratch that, I just checked Dragon Magic and it gives multiple theories including interbreeding. Still, I like the idea of them hating Red Dragons so much they developed a resistance to fire

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by MaxWilson
Wasn't Aragorn something like ninety years old at the time of The Two Towers? He definitely does not age like a vanilla human.

His age is given as 87 in one of the scenes from the extended edition. The blood of Númenor granted lifespans past two hundred years, so at 87 Aragorn was in his prime.

In fact, "Aragorn indeed lived to be two hundred and ten years old, longer than any of his line since King Arvegil; but in Aragorn Elessar the dignity of the kings of old was renewed." (From Appendix A in Return of the King.)

.

[Trask]

Honestly the answer is really just that Tolkien didn't do it.

[LibraryOgre]

Three campaign settings, three different answers:

1) Dark Sun: Half-dwarves are muls. They are sterile, 6' tall, hairless and have endurance out the wazoo... a 2e Mul could carry on a conversation for 9-21 days, and run, without rest, for 33-45 hours.

2) Kingdoms of Kalamar. Dwarves are not able to reproduce with other races.

3) Forgotten Realms: Per Dwarves' Deep, half-dwarves are simply dwarves. They're a bit taller than full blooded dwarves, but they're standard dwarves in all other ways.

Pseudo answer, as well: Some sources say that gully dwarves on Krynn are human/dwarf crossbreeds; others say dwarf/gnome crossbreeds.

[Ganryu]

Ever seen Mr. Welch's list of 2500 things he's not allowed to do in DnD?

"224. I cannot insinuate elf chicks are all easy, even though you never hear about a half gnome do you?"

[Chronos]

Human: Hey elf, you look like a girl.
Elf: To a human, everything must look like a girl.
Human: What?
Elf: Half-orcs, half-ogres…
Human: …shut up.
Dwarf: Half-dragons, half-kobolds.
Human: I said shut up!
Elf: …
Dwarf: …
Human: …
Elf: Centaurs…

And strictly speaking, Elrond was 3/8 human, 9/16 elf, and 1/16 angelic. But both he and his brother were required to choose to count as strictly one or the other: Elrond chose elf and Elros chose human (and then lived for 500 years).

[Hytheter]

a 2e Mul could carry on a conversation for 9-21 days

That is a very specific and niche ability...

[diplomancer]

Ultimately, Tolkien doesn't really have half-Elves, they are all supposed to choose between being an Elf and being a Human (for some reason, choosing to be a Human binds all your future successors, choosing to be an Elf doesn't). Aragorn is fully human (there are more than 60 generations separating him from his nearest Elvish ancestor), with some special traits.
There is a strong indication (but no confirmation), that Saruman created Half-Orcs and Quarter-Orcs.

[LibraryOgre]

That is a very specific and niche ability...

It was a bit less niche than that... it was doing anything of extremely light fatigue, and included walking unencumbered. They could do it for a number of days equal to their Constitution.

[loki_ragnarock]

Honestly the answer is really just that Tolkien didn't do it.

This brings a smile to my lips because Gygax pretty frequently got flack from the West Coast hippies who popularized the brand that x, y, or zed must be wrong because it didn't track with Tolkien. Trolls not turning to stone upon exposure to sunlight being a key example; D&D's trolls are stolen from an entirely different literary source, as Gygax was a collector of pulp fiction at one point in his life.

The game's origins steal from way more than Tolkien. I suspect that you could read 100 pulp fantasy stories published pre 1970 and never encounter the introduction of a half dwarf character. It's not until D&D starts doing more than "finding inspiration" in the relevant pop culture and begins creating and contributing to that pop culture that the concept of half dwarves really starts getting explored, to my (non-academic and incomplete) knowledge.

It's less that it was a concept that couldn't be stolen from Tolkien, and more that it couldn't be stolen from anyone. It had to be created... and they did just that way back in the arcane past of 2nd edition with Dark Sun. Which is kind of remarkable, maybe even something to think about; at what point did D&D really stop emulating and instead start creating and shaping the culture?
Any pop culture historians want to weigh in on that one?

[Drache64]

In D&D terms, Aragorn was a half-elf himself, as the Men of Numenor are descended partially from elves.

I didn't read all the comments yet but did anyone else point out that Arwen was also a half-elf as well as Elrond. It's why she was even allowed to choose a mortal life.

[johnbragg]

Which is kind of remarkable, maybe even something to think about; at what point did D&D really stop emulating and instead start creating and shaping the culture?
Any pop culture historians want to weigh in on that one?

Definitely by the 1980s. Probably as soon as people started running campaigns that left the home megadungeon.

Do you count the high level of kitchen-sink pastiche as innovative in itself? Fantasy dragons, sci-fi tech (Barrier Peaks 1980), brain-eating psychic squid-men(1974), Judeo-Christian(-Zoroastrian-Gnostic etc) demonology, and rules for Renaissance firearms (present in 2e, not sure about 1e)? Or is that sufficiently like having pulp heroes encounter Beastmen of the Green Forest in one book, Lost City of Atlanteans Clockwork Robots in the next book and then mummies in Egyptian pyramids a book or two later?

Heck, underground matriarchal spider-worshipping sadomasochists with wierd-ass magic powers is probably a new combination.

[deljzc]

I have tried to explain sexuality and procreation for all the races to reflect their lifespans.

I mean, we know elves CAN'T procreate like humans or there would just be a million elves around if elves were childbearing for like 250 years.

So in my "world", I just kind of casually spin racial procreation a bit different:

1. Female elves CHOOSE to ovulate. It is not a cycle. It is not all the time. Pregnancy to female elves is complete choice, not random.

2. For this reason, half-elves almost always come from male elves and female humans. Obviously, if there is a loving relationship between a female elf and male human, they can elect to have a baby, but that is rare. Most situations involve a male elf (and elves have a lot of sex) having relations with a female human and "forgetting" that pregnancy for humans is random.

3. Female dwarves ovulate VERY RARELY. This could be because female dwarves have high levels of testosterone and the estrogen/testosterone levels kind of are constantly at war with each other. A female dwarf has to kind of go through a cycle of becoming "less male" and "more female" to become fertile. This is a rare, but exciting event, in dwarf clans. If this happens to multiple females in a clan at the same time, it might portend an upcoming war or conflict for the clan (thus the need to "repopulate" the expected losses). Since female dwarves know this is happening to them, it is important (ritually and for the clan), that they choose a strong mate for the benefit of the clan. Since everything is about the "clan" to dwarves, the idea of a plutonic husband/wife relationship isn't all that strong. It is more important for the clans survival that when a female dwarf ovulates, a good mate is chosen for the benefit of the clan. There could be all sorts of ritualistic ideas on how female dwarves choose their mating partner.

4. Since male dwarves, normally, are asexual/non-sexual, it is very rare for male dwarves to lose control and have sex with human females, thus - no half-dwarves.

[Seclora]

Ultimately, Tolkien doesn't really have half-Elves, they are all supposed to choose between being an Elf and being a Human (for some reason, choosing to be a Human binds all your future successors, choosing to be an Elf doesn't). Aragorn is fully human (there are more than 60 generations separating him from his nearest Elvish ancestor), with some special traits.
There is a strong indication (but no confirmation), that Saruman created Half-Orcs and Quarter-Orcs.

They have to choose one or the other because Humans and Elves don't share an afterlife, so the cosmological bureaucracy needs to assign you to one or the other. The 'Doom of Man' is a part of their inherent freedom, and even though Elrond has chosen the Elven Afterlife, his children must choose for themselves. Elros chose Humanity, and the dominant Human Freedom is satisfied and need not reassert itself throughout the generations.
I think. Tolkien wrote a lot on the subject and I have not read all of it.

As for Half-Orcs, yeah, Saruman did cause that to happen, and the implications are not good. His intention was to make stronger Orcs who could fight even in Sunlight, and I always got the impression that this required a lot of magical experimentation to make possible.



As for Half-Dwarves, I have always drawn the conclusion that Dwarves just don't have the kind of libido most Humans do, and don't find Humans attractive in general. For their part, Humans have a hard time finding Dwarf women, and even when they do the Dwarves would retaliate with undiscerning brutality, and also raise any ensuing child as a Dwarf, who would likely never be the wiser for it. I'm sure that exceptions exist, but at an incredibly low rate.

[Zevox]

Honestly the answer is really just that Tolkien didn't do it.

This is basically my understanding, yeah. If you're looking to Tolkien for inspiration at all, you don't need to look far to run across references to Half-Elves, since Elrond is explicitly referred to as Half-Elven, and Aragorn and Arwen are a Human and Elf (as far as any normal reader understands) who marry at the end of LotR; and along the way you run into implications that the Uruk-Hai were created by cross-breeding Orcs with Humans, so there's your Half-Orcs. Certainly easily explains why those are the two most common Half-breed races in fantasy, in any case.

Ironically, that actually doesn't happen all that often in Tolkien's writing - there's literally only three instances of a Human and Elf mating like that in the entire history of Arda. It's just that each one is a story of some significance to it, so they kind of stand out.

Ultimately, Tolkien doesn't really have half-Elves, they are all supposed to choose between being an Elf and being a Human (for some reason, choosing to be a Human binds all your future successors, choosing to be an Elf doesn't).

No, they're still technically Half-Elves (hence the effects of Elven blood on Aragorn's family even after Elros chose to be human, for instance), they just need to choose to be counted among one of the races due to each having significatly different status within Arda in terms of mortality and the afterlife. Elves are immortal but their spirits cannot leave the world, while Humans are mortal and their spirits depart the world entirely to join its creator after death, and will supposedly participate in the creation of another at some point. There's not really an in-between option there, you're either getting one fate or the other, so the Valar ultimately had to get them to choose. (Which does beg the question of what happened to Dior, the one Half-Elf who was already dead before the Valar offered the rest that choice, but it's never mentioned.)

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

I remember seeing guidance somewhere for creating various hybrid races, but I can't remember where. The 3E DMG includes a sample half-human elf, which trades Favored Class: Any and skill bonuses to Diplomacy and Gather Information for Favored Class: Wizard and elven weapon proficiencies. And I'm almost sure I remember seeing somewhere in 3E something about modifying player races that were raised in other communities - maybe it was an elf raised by dwarves that traded weapon proficiencies for the dwarf's favored enemy bonuses and stonecunning.