OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread

[Goblin_Priest]

In that panel before he says "I think I say...", you can see him digging himself deeper into his sunk costs.

[Marsala]

Implosion is a 9th level spell. Is this what is going on here?

The requirement is supposed to be using a 9th level spell slot for a specific ritual. Unless the ritual is something like, "casting Implosion on a cleric of Thor who was recently resurrected by an acolyte of Loki," it's not related. On the other hand, it does seem odd that Redcloak is using a 9th level spell slot right here and now, and the cliffhanger suggests that Durkon will be saved by something less anticlimactic than a simple saving throw. (Durkon dying also seems unlikely as a resolution of the cliffhanger, since showing him implode would be more dramatic at the end of a comic than the beginning of the next one.)

[Samoja1]

In that panel before he says "I think I say...", you can see him digging himself deeper into his sunk costs.

Real question is how are they going to convince him now, because that really is the only way to stop Snarl, but i doubt Roy's plan would work, i pin RC as someone who would be liable to say "if i am going down i am taking you all with me." In other words if OoTS somehow manages to defeat Xykon and RC and capture RC alive i could see RC deciding it's better to let the world die then fix it for the humans and other races, while goblins continue living as fodder. We already established he does not trust the gods, so another parlay is out of the question.

[B. Dandelion]

Is it possible that Redcloak went into the negotiation fully intending to kill Durkon at the end no matter what?

I had the impression through the previous comics that Redcloak was operating in, if not genuine good faith, at least a belief that he was indeed capable of operating in good faith. He thinks he's in the right. He's prided himself on his demands simply being equality. And supposedly the whole Plan is just to force the gods into a series of concessions. It makes sense to me that he would have been prepared to hear Durkon out and genuinely consider his offer, even if he wasn't taking into account the fact that his own sunk costs would inevitably get in the way.

But it's maybe a little easier for me to intuit what his thought processes were if he actually went in with conscious bad faith. He didn't really think a deal with the gods was possible without the threat of the Snarl, but if it cost him nothing to hear Durkon out he was willing to play along for a while, probably hoping to learn more about the disposition of his enemies in the process. He didn't mind the opportunity to vent his frustrations either, and he didn't exactly lie about his motives, he just neglected to mention his belief that nothing was going to come of this regardless. So then at the end, he's finding himself swayed to a degree he hadn't anticipated, and has to steel himself to get back to the course of action he'd originally settled on.

[svankensen]

He does have a nice arc, but I would call him a sympathetic villain rather than an anti-villain. He looks like an anti-villain when standing next to Xykon, true (most villains would), and he claims to be seeking his people's welfare, which might be viewed as a noble cause if it didn't come at other people's expense. But this is merely a cloak for his real motivation: to be proven right. He doesn't care for the welfare of the goblin people nearly as much as he does about maintaining his own lies about himself, and the obsession to prove that every terrible thing he has done was necessary when his plan succeeds. He refuses to even consider other options that might benefit his people more than his Plan because they would destroy his self-image.

Also he's a blatant racist.

Has he really shown any traits that might be considered "noble"? He occasionally shows care for other goblins, but not to the point that he won't throw their lives away or kill them himself for his precious Plan.

Yeah, either works, really. Anti-villains and sympathetic villains (when well written), both have character flaws that prevent them from doing the right thing. In a different world Redcloak could've been a hero, but this is a world were, much like in ours, killing people gets you what you want. Just look at the OoTS. They murdered a lot of guards and goblins, but they are our protagonists so that's ok. They were "evil". That's the core of D&D, and the reason RC is rightfully mad. They are the evil thing to kill. So of course for RC and other goblins the rest of the world is evil. But back to his character, and less to the relative morality of the PCs, we see his evil actions for what they are, and the effect it has on him. Doing the wrong thing for the right reason is a slippery slope, and indeed, we have seen how Redcloak has become a worse person in the pursuit of his ultimate goal. He has gotten a tad better at times (Azure city siege), but ultimately he backslides enough to outstrip any progress he has made.

[Samoja1]

The requirement is supposed to be using a 9th level spell slot for a specific ritual. Unless the ritual is something like, "casting Implosion on a cleric of Thor who was recently resurrected by an acolyte of Loki," it's not related. On the other hand, it does seem odd that Redcloak is using a 9th level spell slot right here and now, and the cliffhanger suggests that Durkon will be saved by something less anticlimactic than a simple saving throw. (Durkon dying also seems unlikely as a resolution of the cliffhanger, since showing him implode would be more dramatic at the end of a comic than the beginning of the next one.)

Maybe he knows that's the only way to keep him dead, i don't think we will see Durkon die, as i said, i think we will cut to RC leaving the scene or something like that.

[understatement]

Is it possible that Redcloak went into the negotiation fully intending to kill Durkon at the end no matter what?

I had the impression through the previous comics that Redcloak was operating in, if not genuine good faith, at least a belief that he was indeed capable of operating in good faith. He thinks he's in the right. He's prided himself on his demands simply being equality. And supposedly the whole Plan is just to force the gods into a series of concessions. It makes sense to me that he would have been prepared to hear Durkon out and genuinely consider his offer, even if he wasn't taking into account the fact that his own sunk costs would inevitably get in the way.

But it's maybe a little easier for me to intuit what his thought processes were if he actually went in with conscious bad faith. He didn't really think a deal with the gods was possible without the threat of the Snarl, but if it cost him nothing to hear Durkon out he was willing to play along for a while, probably hoping to learn more about the disposition of his enemies in the process. He didn't mind the opportunity to vent his frustrations either, and he didn't exactly lie about his motives, he just neglected to mention his belief that nothing was going to come of this regardless. So then at the end, he's finding himself swayed to a degree he hadn't anticipated, and has to steel himself to get back to the course of action he'd originally settled on.

That's a really good point, but I'm not sure on the "cost him nothing" -- having a table out in the open poses an enormous risk, especially if Xykon spotted it, not to mention that Redcloak believed Durkon might be a distraction and that the rest of the team would start attacking soon.

[Marsala]

Is it possible that Redcloak went into the negotiation fully intending to kill Durkon at the end no matter what?

I had the impression through the previous comics that Redcloak was operating in, if not genuine good faith, at least a belief that he was indeed capable of operating in good faith. He thinks he's in the right. He's prided himself on his demands simply being equality. And supposedly the whole Plan is just to force the gods into a series of concessions. It makes sense to me that he would have been prepared to hear Durkon out and genuinely consider his offer, even if he wasn't taking into account the fact that his own sunk costs would inevitably get in the way.

But it's maybe a little easier for me to intuit what his thought processes were if he actually went in with conscious bad faith. He didn't really think a deal with the gods was possible without the threat of the Snarl, but if it cost him nothing to hear Durkon out he was willing to play along for a while, probably hoping to learn more about the disposition of his enemies in the process. He didn't mind the opportunity to vent his frustrations either, and he didn't exactly lie about his motives, he just neglected to mention his belief that nothing was going to come of this regardless. So then at the end, he's finding himself swayed to a degree he hadn't anticipated, and has to steel himself to get back to the course of action he'd originally settled on.

I think Redcloak expected that he would have to reject the offer and kill Durkon but was hopeful that he might be offered something nearly as valuable as what he expects to get from the Plan. For instance, if Durkon had flat out offered full equality as a new player character race and recognition of Gobbotopia by the other nations, Redcloak would have leaned heavily towards accepting it if Durkon could give proof it was genuine. Unfortunately, Durkon didn't (and couldn't, in honesty) offer anything close to that.

As for sunk costs, now that Gobbotopia exists, Redcloak can already justify to himself that "it was all worth it" and might be happy to take an off-ramp from the very dangerous Plan if it leads to the same outcome for the goblin people. Sticking with Xykon has paid off for Redcloak with the creation of his own nation and his reaching a personal level of power that led to him being able to receive this offer. So I don't think he's as committed to finishing the Plan as he was at the end of SoD.

[nolongeralurker]

Forgive me if someone's said this already, but as Sigdi would say, "Seems like a firm na, then."

[Jaziggy]

That's what the ritual is for, isn't it? To turn the grenade into a rocket launcher.

And what happens if the Gods call his bluff? RC still operates from PoW that the gods would not destroy the world just to stop him, if he saw the graveyard of the worlds he would realize how wrong that assumption was, and then what? Let's say he suceeds and brings the Snarl to the astral plane? Again if there is one thing evil is not that's suicidal, if you threaten people with a weapon you should make sure it's a gun and not a grenade, Snarl is a grenade, they fire him at the gods and everyone dies, including the Dark One.

[Samoja1]

I think Redcloak expected that he would have to reject the offer and kill Durkon but was hopeful that he might be offered something nearly as valuable as what he expects to get from the Plan. For instance, if Durkon had flat out offered full equality as a new player character race and recognition of Gobbotopia by the other nations, Redcloak would have leaned heavily towards accepting it if Durkon could give proof it was genuine. Unfortunately, Durkon didn't (and couldn't, in honesty) offer anything close to that.

As for sunk costs, now that Gobbotopia exists, Redcloak can already justify to himself that "it was all worth it" and might be happy to take an off-ramp from the very dangerous Plan if it leads to the same outcome for the goblin people. Sticking with Xykon has paid off for Redcloak with the creation of his own nation and his reaching a personal level of power that led to him being able to receive this offer. So I don't think he's as committed to finishing the Plan as he was at the end of SoD.

RC is operating on the false set of assumptions, he thinks he can't lose, either they grab the Snarl and he gets what he wants, or the world gets destroyed and Dark One gets to have a hand in creating next one. He does not know he in fact can't win, for reasons i outlined above.

[Dion]

because that really is the only way to stop Snarl

Technically, it's the only way we know of right now to stop the snarl. There may be other ways to stop the snarl and save the world.

At any rate, Xykon is going to find out about the dwarf and ask Redcloak what happened, and Redcloak is going to need a truthful answer.

"I killed him" may be Redcloak's only option, regardless of his decision. Because also technically, Redcloak did not say no.

[Samoja1]

That's what the ritual is for, isn't it? To turn the grenade into a rocket launcher.

Well no, because if he ever uses it there is no hope of ever sealing the Snarl again, the gates like everything else are made up of 3 colors, eventually the Snarl will break free and destroy the Dark One too, also again, the world will be gone long before that, the Dark One can't seal existing rifts by himself or create new world once the current one is gone, so by Snarl or by starvation unleashing Snarl on the gods is tantamount to delayed suicide. Real question is whether Dark One knows that.

[Samoja1]

Technically, it's the only way we know of right now to stop the snarl. There may be other ways to stop the snarl and save the world.

At any rate, Xykon is going to find out about the dwarf and ask Redcloak what happened, and Redcloak is going to need a truthful answer.

"I killed him" may be Redcloak's only option, regardless of his decision. Because also technically, Redcloak did not say no.

Apart from discovering another new god with different color no, those are the rules, nothing with less then 4 colors can permanently stop the Snarl. We saw the graveyard, i am sure the gods tried every concievable alternative.

[JSSheridan]

Durkon's response on page 2 could have been a lot better

Every government should guarantee the goblin races respect and protect their lives and rights

And the goblins should do the same for the demihuman races

The divine laws of the Good gods would also require respect to be given

Re-reading the last few pages, I think Durkon did come to this with a good bit of wishful thinking and hoping his good intentions would carry him through

There are a lot of details and terms I'd want to work out in writing before agreeing to this

I understand why Redcloak is skeptical, though I think he's assuming that Durkon is negotiating in bad faith

And it doesn't justify an attempt to kill him

Unless he intends to continue talks with Durkon and Thor in the afterlife

The word of a god is worth a lot more than the word of a dwarf cleric that's not even his god's high priest

But if he agreed now, he'd need to turn on Xykon immediately, and he's probably not prepared, mentally or otherwise

[johnbragg]

Is it possible that Redcloak went into the negotiation fully intending to kill Durkon at the end no matter what?

The negotiation was a surprise to Redcloak. He didn't have any intentions, because he didn't have any solid expectations.

[Samoja1]

Durkon's response on page 2 could have been a lot better

Every government should guarantee the goblin races respect and protect their lives and rights

He can hardly promise that, and even if he could, the initial issue remains. Goblins are an evil race created as fodder, they were settled in inhospitable lands to curb their growth, because gods made them much too numerous. RC wants what's best for his people, and what's best for his people is to grow in strength and then wipe out everyone else and claim the world for themselves. Since they are evil aligned they don't have such pesky qualms like genocide is evil or slavery is wrong, so really what is stopping them, once they grow powerful enough, to kill or enslave everyone else and take the whole world for themselves?

In short, gods did not think this true, and now repeated genocides are the only way to prevent evil races from doing the same thing to good races.

[Inst]

Also, how do we know it's actually Durkon being popped? There's a chance that we're about to see Belkar finally bite the bullet; Durkon has good constitution, but the halfling?

[Thanatosia]

Honestly, soon as I saw him close his eyes in the middle Panel of the 2nd to last row, I thought Redcloak was going to try to kill Durkon. It's just how I remember him looking

Spoiler: Start of Darkness

Show

after RE made his plea to abandon the plan in SoD

. So the Implosion was zero suprise to me and exactly what I was expecting. However..... after seeing a few people here suggest that he was casting Implosion on himself, I'm starting to think that's what happened. Primarily, because Rich's choice in portraying the final 2 panels seems carefully calculated to conceal that exact result. There was no reason not to have the final 2 panels be a single panel showing Durkon being Imploded using the same field of view as the panel where Redcloak says 'Implode'. Instead he split it into 2 panels that introduced a totally pointless and nonsensical lag-time between casting the spell and it's effect manifesting, that just so happened to make sure Redcloak was 'offscreen'. Feels suspicious as hell.

[Goblin_Priest]

Durkon's response on page 2 could have been a lot better

Every government should guarantee the goblin races respect and protect their lives and rights

And the goblins should do the same for the demihuman races

The divine laws of the Good gods would also require respect to be given

Re-reading the last few pages, I think Durkon did come to this with a good bit of wishful thinking and hoping his good intentions would carry him through

There are a lot of details and terms I'd want to work out in writing before agreeing to this

I understand why Redcloak is skeptical, though I think he's assuming that Durkon is negotiating in bad faith

And it doesn't justify an attempt to kill him

Unless he intends to continue talks with Durkon and Thor in the afterlife

The word of a god is worth a lot more than the word of a dwarf cleric that's not even his god's high priest

But if he agreed now, he'd need to turn on Xykon immediately, and he's probably not prepared, mentally or otherwise

Except no one has delegated any negotiation authority to Durkon, save perhaps for Thor, but even then that wasn't so much a "you can trade him what's needed to get things done" as rather merely "just try to talk him out of it".

He's not even representing his own party, whom he disobeyed to go there.

Redcloak has no reason to believe that Durkon can deliver anything, and Durkon hasn't really tried to make him think otherwise either. All he's done is pretty much refute Redcloak's fundamentally character defining quest, and he's just not ready to start questioning himself.

[Rrmcklin]

Real question is how are they going to convince him now, because that really is the only way to stop Snarl, but i doubt Roy's plan would work, i pin RC as someone who would be liable to say "if i am going down i am taking you all with me." In other words if OoTS somehow manages to defeat Xykon and RC and capture RC alive i could see RC deciding it's better to let the world die then fix it for the humans and other races, while goblins continue living as fodder. We already established he does not trust the gods, so another parlay is out of the question.

If this story goes in the direction of "Redcloak can never be convinced", which I had been assuming from the beginning, I think it's more productive to ask "what funny alternative can we wriggle away from besides Redcloak" and not stay on making the character who is defined by sunk-cost fallacy move away from that.

I've always thought it was a mistake to take it as a given that Thor's plan, and thus Redcloak's eventual cooperation, were the definitive end game, instead of just another piece to get to the end game.

[Samoja1]

If this story goes in the direction of "Redcloak can never be convinced", which I had been assuming from the beginning, I think it's more productive to ask "what funny alternative can we wriggle away from besides Redcloak" and not stay on making the character who is defined by sunk-cost fallacy move away from that.

I've always thought it was a mistake to take it as a given that Thor's plan, and thus Redcloak's eventual cooperation, were the definitive end game, instead of just another piece to get to the end game.

If there is another way i don't see it, Dark One is the only god with new color to rise in who knows how many iterations, and RC is his only cleric capable of casting level 9 spells. World is borked with the 4 of the 5 gates destroyed so no stalling for time either, in order to get a more reasonable cleric of the Dark One leveled. I suppose good races could pick a reasonable cleric of the Dark One and then just let him cut them down in droves to level up, but i somehow doubt that idea would fly, especially since there is no guarantee new cleric will play ball.

[Jasdoif]

Is it possible that Redcloak went into the negotiation fully intending to kill Durkon at the end no matter what?

I had the impression through the previous comics that Redcloak was operating in, if not genuine good faith, at least a belief that he was indeed capable of operating in good faith. He thinks he's in the right. He's prided himself on his demands simply being equality. And supposedly the whole Plan is just to force the gods into a series of concessions. It makes sense to me that he would have been prepared to hear Durkon out and genuinely consider his offer, even if he wasn't taking into account the fact that his own sunk costs would inevitably get in the way.

But it's maybe a little easier for me to intuit what his thought processes were if he actually went in with conscious bad faith. He didn't really think a deal with the gods was possible without the threat of the Snarl, but if it cost him nothing to hear Durkon out he was willing to play along for a while, probably hoping to learn more about the disposition of his enemies in the process. He didn't mind the opportunity to vent his frustrations either, and he didn't exactly lie about his motives, he just neglected to mention his belief that nothing was going to come of this regardless. So then at the end, he's finding himself swayed to a degree he hadn't anticipated, and has to steel himself to get back to the course of action he'd originally settled on.

Remember that Durkon is still the cleric of the adventuring party that's been messing up Redcloak's goals all along. Durkon's corpse being less useful to the Order of the Stick means it's more useful to Redcloak; so if Redcloak isn't going to accept what Durkon is able to offer....

[ebarde]

Important to note that the Giant already stated somewhere that the 9th level slot has to be given willingly with the intent of closing the rift. So Redcloak can't be tricked into doing it, so unless Redcloak's niece has been farming off-screen, their only hope is to convince him or close the gate some other way.

[Rrmcklin]

If there is another way i don't see it, Dark One is the only god with new color to rise in who knows how many iterations, and RC is his only cleric capable of casting level 9 spells. World is borked with the 4 of the 5 gates destroyed so no stalling for time either, in order to get a more reasonable cleric of the Dark One leveled. I suppose good races could pick a reasonable cleric of the Dark One and then just let him cut them down in droves to level up, but i somehow doubt that idea would fly, especially since there is no guarantee new cleric will play ball.

If you saw it now, it would be pretty boring wouldn't it? We have an entire book left - they could find out why the Dark One is a special quiddity and tap into it without him, they could rediscover the green quiddity of the Eastern gods, they could get help from some other unknown players/something about the planet in the rifts.

But I'd rate the chances of "this story ends by following the plan that was explicitly laid out to us" as pretty slim, even not factoring in how little I think a change of heart would fit into Redcloak's character. There's a lot going on here that even the gods don't understand, so why can't over the course of what is presumably going to be a very long book can't another solution at least be potentially found?

[understatement]

If you saw it now, it would be pretty boring wouldn't it? We have an entire book left - they could find out why the Dark One is a special quiddity and tap into it without him, they could rediscover the green quiddity of the Eastern gods, they could get help from some other unknown players/something about the planet in the rifts.

The Eastern gods would've starved from eons without worship. The Dark One's existence is the only reason this world -- where the Order lives in -- is special.

But I'd rate the chances of "this story ends by following the plan that was explicitly laid out to us" as pretty slim, even not factoring in how little I think a change of heart would fit into Redcloak's character. There's a lot going on here that even the gods don't understand, so why can't over the course of what is presumably going to be a very long book can't another solution at least be potentially found?

I think Thor's instructions were more of a goal than a plan, just like Roy's goal is to kill Xykon.

Redcloak doesn't need a change of heart. He doesn't even need to become less Evil. He needs to shift his plans around, and if there's one thing him and the Order share, it's a common enemy.

But the point is, the entirety of SOD and HTPGHS is giving this message -- an entire race of intelligent beings are not evil, and it's no way justified under any moral sense to assume so and kill them. If the gods just booted the Dark one out of the way and used Banjo's special quiddity or the Eastern Pantheon somehow channeled through Roy's sword, then absolutely nothing would have changed for the goblins (or other disenfranchised races, really) and the cycle of revenge and crusades will continue.

[Rrmcklin]

The Eastern gods would've starved from eons without worship. The Dark One's existence is the only reason this world -- where the Order lives in -- is special.



I think Thor's instructions were more of a goal than a plan, just like Roy's goal is to kill Xykon.

Redcloak doesn't need a change of heart. He doesn't even need to become less Evil. He needs to shift his plans around, and if there's one thing him and the Order share, it's a common enemy.

But the point is, the entirety of SOD and HTPGHS is giving this message -- an entire race of intelligent beings are not evil, and it's no way justified under any moral sense to assume so and kill them. If the gods just booted the Dark one out of the way and used Banjo's special quiddity or the Eastern Pantheon somehow channeled through Roy's sword, then absolutely nothing would have changed for the goblins (or other disenfranchised races, really) and the cycle of revenge and crusades will continue.

Hence why I said "rediscover". It's not about the Eastern gods still being alive, but potentially finding their quiddity again. I don't find it particularly likely (certainly not in Roy's sword) I just mentioned it as a possibility.

I'm not really sure why you're talking as if I said anything about goblinoids being inherently evil or deserving to be killed just for existing. I said nothing of the sort, nor did I say anything about the status quo remaining the same.

I have never understand the idea that "Redcloak won't change and they'll have to do something else" and "the status quo will be preserved" or somehow inherently contradictory, they are not. To me, it feels perfectly natural that the heroes of the story would somehow find a way to save the world and make it a fairer place along the way. Just because we don't know how that'll be done doesn't mean it can't be.

Maybe it's just because I'm invested in Redcloak in a different way from you (and apparently, a lot of other people). I do not intrinsically tie Redcloak's character arc as supposing to be some commentary on goblinoids and what they "deserve" as a whole.

[understatement]

Hence why I said "rediscover". It's not about the Eastern gods still being alive, but potentially finding their quiddity again. I don't find it particularly likely (certainly not in Roy's sword) I just mentioned it as a possibility.

I'm not really sure why you're talking as if I said anything about goblinoids being inherently evil or deserving to be killed just for existing. I said nothing of the sort, nor did I say anything about the status quo remaining the same.

I really don't think I said you did. I said that's what SOD and GDGU (to me, at least) seems to be saying.

As for Roy's sword miraculously channeling the power of gods long dead, I put that with the same likelihood as Banjo ro Giggles ascending -- which is to say, near zero and should be considered mostly along joke theories.

I have never understand the idea that "Redcloak won't change and they'll have to do something else" and "the status quo will be preserved" or somehow inherently contradictory, they are not. To me, it feels perfectly natural that the heroes of the story would somehow find a way to save the world and make it a fairer place along the way. Just because we don't know how that'll be done doesn't mean it can't be.

The heroes didn't know about the depths of the status quo, not until Redcloak and Durkon sat down at a table, and even then there hasn't been the full picture. I am not sure how else the Order could be informed of the status quo in the first place.

Maybe it's just because I'm invested in Redcloak in a different way from you (and apparently, a lot of other people). I do not intrinsically tie Redcloak's character arc as supposing to be some commentary on goblinoids and what they "deserve" as a whole.

I guess I'm hoping there's some sort of payoff to a character that is the second-most important villain and had half a prequel book centered around him. YMMV on the commentary.

[Rrmcklin]

I really don't think I said you did. I said that's what SOD and GDGU (to me, at least) seems to be saying.

As for Roy's sword miraculously channeling the power of gods long dead, I put that with the same likelihood as Banjo ro Giggles ascending -- which is to say, near zero and should be considered mostly along joke theories.



The heroes didn't know about the depths of the status quo, not until Redcloak and Durkon sat down at a table, and even then there hasn't been the full picture. I am not sure how else the Order could be informed of the status quo in the first place.



I guess I'm hoping there's some sort of payoff to a character that is the second-most important villain and had half a prequel book centered around him. YMMV on the commentary.

Yes, and now that Durkon knows all of that, I'm sure it'll be relevant regardless of what happens with Redcloak. Roy has been on the "we can't totally trust the gods" bent for awhile, and Durkon, while still a devout follower of Thor, makes it clear in this strip he has his reservations about them, as a whole, known. I don't think I'm being unreasonable in thinking the good guys of the story will ultimately do something to improve this great injustice the story has made known to the readers for awhile, and has finally getting around to the protagonists. The same way I don't see this story ending with the status quo for dwarves unchanged, even though at this juncture I don't know what will be done about it.

As for payoff for Redcloak, I guess that depends on what you mean. Like I said, I'm invested in Redcloak, but I'm not invested in him as a character who actually will solve the issues he's brought to the forefront, because a central part of his character is, as far as I can see, how those issues are, ultimately, secondary to his ego and guilt. He's not going to be validated with actually being a direct part of how those issues get resolved. In somewhat oversimplied terms, his arc is more like Miko's than Belkar's or V's, I think.

[Geech]

Honestly, soon as I saw him close his eyes in the middle Panel of the 2nd to last row, I thought Redcloak was going to try to kill Durkon. It's just how I remember him looking

Spoiler: Start of Darkness

Show

after RE made his plea to abandon the plan in SoD. So the Implosion was zero suprise to me and exactly what I was expecting

. However..... after seeing a few people here suggest that he was casting Implosion on himself, I'm starting to think that's what happened. Primarily, because Rich's choice in portraying the final 2 panels seems carefully calculated to conceal that exact result. There was no reason not to have the final 2 panels be a single panel showing Durkon being Imploded using the same field of view as the panel where Redcloak says 'Implode'. Instead he split it into 2 panels that introduced a totally pointless and nonsensical lag-time between casting the spell and it's effect manifesting, that just so happened to make sure Redcloak was 'offscreen'. Feels suspicious as hell.

I think this is right. Not just for what you outline here, but it makes a lot more sense dramatically and from a pacing perspective. Plus, if Redcloak is killing himself to meet the Dark One, it explains why Rich took such pains to let us know just a couple updates ago that Redcloak has never spoken with him before.