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2020-08-03, 10:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
Forum Wisdom
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2020-08-03, 10:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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2020-08-03, 10:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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2020-08-03, 10:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
Yes, and before Redcloak was looking at the ground he was looking in Durkon's direction and made an odd expression. Hence why I called out "during Durkon's last line."
Really? Last time it was cast it seemed to leave a lot of the body. Just in a very messy state.Last edited by Peelee; 2020-08-03 at 10:31 AM.
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2020-08-03, 10:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
Well, well. This went as well as could be expected. I mean, this is basically the same thing I've been saying time and again for a while: this is an awful proposal. Durkon basically acknowledges that Gobbotopia as it is is not a viable solution to the goblinoids' problem, since its sitting under a Rift, and a huge crusade bait to boot. He also acknowledges that its limited recognition might not protect it from stubborn enemies. All he offers boils down to ”I'll try to talk with two guys who may agree to help or at least leave you alone, on condition that you release the slaves, give up on some of the land you occupy [he only promises that the Azurite will give up their claim to most of the land], and you'll do what we need you to do”. We know Redcloak (with his trauma-induced speciesism and whatnot) does not trust humans, we know his god does not trust the other gods, and as some posters have rightly pointed out, releasing the slaves and giving a foothold in the Southern Lands back to the Azurites would just give their enemies a bridgehead and means to bolster their numbers for later, should they choose to move against Gobbotopia (with the possible help of other crusaders).
Redcloak (and Big Purple) would need some cosmic-level guarantee that they won't be double-crossed even if they are absolutely honest about their goals (which I'll assume to be the case for Big Purple until proven otherwise; RedcloakÂ… he has issues, but I strongly believes he still, at the very least, thinks he's honest), and Durkon offered no such thing (heck, he suggested they ought to mostly leave the gods out of the whole deal). Until such time as Big Purple will be absolutely certain the spot-welding businesss can work as a guarantee of that sort, the Plan is their only option.
(Unlikely as it is, I like that one.)
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2020-08-03, 10:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
I disagree. I think we needed to see plain and clear how lost Redcloak is to his sunk costs in the main strip in order to understand his character. We're not supposed to need the supplemental material to follow the comic, and Redcloak has never made his true motives as clear as he does here outside of the final scene in Start of Darkness.
It's just pure selfishness. There's no strategy behind it, no greater purpose, no valid excuse at all. He's a villain, and we needed to see that unambiguously.
I'm not terribly happy about it, but that's how I think it is.
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2020-08-03, 10:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
Redcloak looks startled in one of the final panels.
I predict that Xykon is stood directly behind Durkon, and Redcloak is killing Durkon with the intention of raising him, because if Xykon does it he'll Soul Bind him.
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2020-08-03, 10:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
Zombies don't generally have to prove they deserve to be smote before people feel content to smite them - this is despite the fact that some zombies are intelligent decent people, the accepted default position is that they are mindless monsters.
Maybe this should change but it is difficult when they keep forming hoards and attacking people.
So it is with goblins - yes they might deserve better but then they would likely have to work towards better to get it.
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2020-08-03, 10:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
Could Minrah be waiting around to do something to distract Redcloak while Durkon transitions to cloud form? Could they both be invisible, with the "Durkon" we're seeing being an illusion (or something similar) while the real Durkon is present to do any spellcasting necessary? I used such a gambit Back In The Day with an illusionist, but I don't know what options might be available now for a couple of clerics.
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2020-08-03, 10:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
Nah it depends on what your God wants. SRD doesn't even set a hard time, Dawn and Dusk are just common choices that are fraught with symbolism.
Did it? In that strip, nor the one after, we never see the body of anyone that got Imploded after they were done Imploding."Besides, you know the saying: Kill one, and you are a murderer. Kill millions, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Fishman
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2020-08-03, 10:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
On which levels are Durkon and Redcloak right now, just in case the first went to the meeting without any extra protection?
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2020-08-03, 10:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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2020-08-03, 10:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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2020-08-03, 10:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
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2020-08-03, 10:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
"Besides, you know the saying: Kill one, and you are a murderer. Kill millions, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Fishman
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2020-08-03, 10:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
Funny, but I don't think that the spells work like that.
Is that his PoV? They have their city and their land now, and Jirix has been given direct guidance not to go to war more but to trade and do diplomacy. See strip 704.
OK. our meme as kids was "don't take candy from strangers." I am vaguley recalling something like what you refer to as stuff they taught my kids back in the 00s.
Jirix has this as his life's work, now that he's come back from the dead. (And I do agree that "Goblins head off into the rifts neverland" doesn't seem to fit where Rich has been going.)
Yep. A lot of the context of Redcloak is, sadly, not in the on line strips but in a prequel (Start of Darkness).
Yep. And Jirix is leaing a good chunk of goblin kind into another future ..There are goblins in OotS other than Redcloak.
He is of high enough level to cast the Astral Projection spell, ins't he? He could go there, but then it's a matter of finding that spot ... I wonder if Durkon may suggest that at some point ...Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
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2020-08-03, 10:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
That doesn’t really look like noticing something to me, more like perplexity.
Also if that’s the case whatever is behind Durkon is taking their sweet-ass time to do anything which does not sound like Xykon at all. Redcloak would just order a bugbear to keep mum and any allynof Durkon isn’t going to tell on them to Mr Bones.
Not to mention (again) the table and chair being obvious evidence of what was happening.Forum Wisdom
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2020-08-03, 10:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
In the context of this comic and 3.5 generally, I have no idea what you're talking about. Zombies are explicitly mindless and have never said a word in this comic besides "brains." They don't have the soul of the person they used to be, and are simply corpses animated to move again by magic.
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2020-08-03, 10:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
Why would he do that?
I. Implosion is a ridiculously messy way of killing oneself. If he were to try and do that, he would have probably chosen something less flashy but more comfortable (relatively speaking, of course).
II. As for Commune and the like, we don't know. He may not answer those (it happens (Thor, I'm looking at you)), that, however, is not an established fact. For all we know, Redcloak might not have tried that all that often (he's trying to give Big Purple his space, after all).
III. This:
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2020-08-03, 10:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
"Besides, you know the saying: Kill one, and you are a murderer. Kill millions, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Fishman
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2020-08-03, 10:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
It's worse than that. The claim that the Dark One won't survive appears to contradict his main point. Durkon's argument is that the Gods will destroy the world to save themselves.
What's his argument about the Dark One supposed to be?
"The gods will destroy this world so that they can all live and create another one. They'll all live safely tha way. Except foh the Dark One, he'll die if they do that. Because what's safe for the rest of them is deadly to him. By the way, while we're here would you care to learn a card game called Fizbin?"
Durkon is skipping the argument that would inevitably be dismissed as a clumsy lie, because he wants to be taken seriously and have his offers be treated as genuine.
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2020-08-03, 10:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
...Welp.
Honestly, this is very different from some of Redcloak’s other kills(whether or not this one was successful or not). When he had Thanh killed he ordered the elemental holding him to crush him; he was past the point where crushing paladins was really satisfying and he wasn’t going to take risks gloating anyways. When he had Tsukiko killed he had her own wights drain her to death, which was almost certainly in part due to very much due to not liking her one bit, to put it lightly.
Just before he casts Implosion here he looks almost reluctant. He wasn’t totally unwilling to listen to Durkon here... it’s just that the good of goblinoids was never his only motivation for doing this. And he’s pragmatic enough to try and end this as soon as possible with as much power he can manage.Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
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2020-08-03, 10:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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2020-08-03, 10:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
I am kind of amazed that you are reading this comic when you apparently disagree with its core message that you don’t get to judge people by race. You only get to fight someone when they are actively harming yourself or somebody else not a moment sooner.
The idea that someone has to prove to be deserving of life is nothing less than sickening.Forum Wisdom
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2020-08-03, 10:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
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2020-08-03, 10:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
Last edited by Metastachydium; 2020-08-03 at 10:49 AM.
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2020-08-03, 10:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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2020-08-03, 10:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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2020-08-03, 10:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
Honestly, given the lack of evidence we've seen ourselves about that, I'm still not happy with it as a plot point in general. It seems like it's just there to add urgency to what Durkon is doing, but that's not necessary when they never found a way to resolve the problem that destroying this world will still condemn the dwarves to eternal torture and empower Hel to cause more trouble. In fact, bringing it up has made her entire plan more questionable, which undermines the entire previous arc. So yeah, really not a fan of leaning on that point even further, and don't get why others are so fixated on it as a trump card in this debate.
Yes, because comparing a species of sentient beings with a category of creatures that require a 7th level spell from a splatbook Rich is almost certainly disregarding just to be able to talk is definitely not straining an analogy to the breaking point. This comic isn't into humanizing undead in general, in contrast to goblinoids and other living races. Otherwise they could have introduced a good guy (or neutral guy) vampire last book.Last edited by TRH; 2020-08-03 at 10:51 AM.
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2020-08-03, 10:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread