Results 241 to 270 of 1060
-
2020-08-03, 11:59 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
I was the first person to bring up the issue, and I think other people may be going off my original statement that it doesn't leave remains, so you are addressing the right person. :)
I was going off the previous uses of implosion we have seen in the comic, where character collapse into a gory mess that then (appears to) wink out into nothing. However, you make an excellent point that nothing in the spell description rules out the possibility of its leaving remains, and the default assumption is that spells leave remains unless otherwise stated.
It's likely to be a moot point, since I can't see how the Order would find whatever remains... uh... remain, or get them to a cleric who could make use of them in time. But, as far as the 3E rules go, I think you are right and I was mistaken.
-
2020-08-03, 11:59 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2016
- Location
- Seoul
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
-
2020-08-03, 12:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
- Location
- Beverly, MA, USA
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
Oh, definitely. The spell makes it pretty clear that the remains of an Implosion victim can't exactly be described as "whole," so Raise Dead almost certainly wouldn't work. There's a reason why I specified that save-or-die spells usually mention if they throw up obstacles against resurrection - there's far too many ways to prevent Raise Dead for every spell to mention that it makes the effect impossible.
Really, all you have to do is behead somebody in order to prevent raising, so even things like the DM's description of how a character dies can stop a cleric below 13th level from being able to raise someone. (Sure, that's kind of a jerk move for the DM to pull if the party is emotionally committed to bringing someone back and they don't have the resources for a 7th-level spell, but it's consistent with how DMs tend to describe combat in flavor terms, at least in my experience.)Number of Character Appearances VII - To Absent Friends
Currently playing a level 20 aasimar necromancer named Zebulun Salathiel and a level 9 goliath diviner named Lo-Kag.
-
2020-08-03, 12:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2008
- Location
- Norway
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
Sure everyone said so already, but: He MUST get a Fortitude save!!!
https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/implosion.htm
Oh great goodness, just let him get that save....Thanks to Gorbash Kazdar for the avatar: Edhelras Taladin, CG Male Moon Elf Ranger
-
2020-08-03, 12:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2020
-
2020-08-03, 12:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- Location
- Somewhere in Utah...
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
Trying to kill Durkon in a vicious manner right after he has offered him an olive branch sounds to me like a good candidate for a final rejection, but perhaps you're right that he might still have another, and take it. Maybe when he discovers what the Dark One really wants he'll finally turn against the Plan and try to destroy Xykon. If he does I don't see Redcloak as surviving the story, however. It will be a redemption=death situation. He's done too many evil deeds to receive a happy ending.
-
2020-08-03, 12:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2009
Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
If we're going for longshot predictions where Reddy isn't completely rejecting Durkon's terms, then I'm going to say he's looking down and spotted the demon-roaches, so he's killing Durkon to keep up the appearance that he was just toying with the PCs and is still on Xykon's side, but in truth plans to resurrect Durkon to continue the negotiations later.
-
2020-08-03, 12:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
- Location
- Alamogordo
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
It would take 5 rounds to change back and forth.
I'd kinda hoped RC would have changed somewhat concerning sunk-cost during the invasion, but apparently he's still very obstinate in that regard. Shame. If Redcloak wants immediate change, it might be best for him to go through with Thor's Plan, but on the condition that they still reset the world and create a new one where goblins are on equal footing. But that wouldn't happen in RC's lifetime, and he seems to want to live to see the change rather than put faith in it happening eventually (ironic given his whole class is about faith).Characters I've enjoyed playing for more than four sessions:
Falgar the Swiftblade
Revain Sumeth, Whip Fighter Extraordinaire
Malvin Firel, Cleric of Corellon, Destroyer of Undeath
Vongur Dorent, Primeval Champion of Poverty
In defense of the Vow of Poverty
-
2020-08-03, 12:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2019
- Location
- Cloudcuckooland, USA
Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
Or perhaps five. I'm hoping beyond hope that the probability of him making all five saves is one in a million...
A student by vocation, a D&Der by avocation (a wizard by evocation).
Order of the Stick Trivia XXIII: 50% More Entertaining than Speculating About MitD!
-
2020-08-03, 12:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
-
2020-08-03, 12:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
- Location
- Beverly, MA, USA
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
Number of Character Appearances VII - To Absent Friends
Currently playing a level 20 aasimar necromancer named Zebulun Salathiel and a level 9 goliath diviner named Lo-Kag.
-
2020-08-03, 12:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2017
- Location
- France
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
-
2020-08-03, 12:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2019
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
Okay, let's see...two routes:
1) Durkon dies.
That would suck royally. Also, the Order -- if they are nearby -- will immediately attack, but the realization comes that Redcloak is also the only cleric high level enough to resurrect him. The battle will draw out bugbears and eventually Xykon, which means the Order is doomed. Xykon is the time-ticking clock here. He shows up, it's game over.
2) Durkon makes his save.
Durkon will have to fight back unless he wants to eat more spells. The outcome of Redcloak vs. Durkon will be known. This would be where Minrah, Order, Xykon, or bugbears interfere. Escape is near impossible, since it takes 30 seconds to transition from solid to Wind Walk phase.
I...genuinely don't know how this will turn out. As Qarr puts it, "what a tweest!"
-
2020-08-03, 12:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
-
2020-08-03, 12:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2012
-
2020-08-03, 12:32 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
-
2020-08-03, 12:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2012
Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
Maybe I'm not politically savvy enough to understand Redcloak here, but how does this help Redcloak achieve his goals? At some point, he will need to force the gods to make concessions, and at that point someone will be sent to negotiate on the gods' behalf. If not Durkon, it would be someone like him. Does Redcloak think he will be able to get the gods to personally appeal to him, once the ritual is ready? Or does he just think he would be able to get more for his side if he follows through with his plan and has his hand on the big red button?
I'm just not sure why Redcloak's response is to kill Durkon, even if he disagrees with the offer he just heard. That may have been the most conciliatory speech Redcloak has ever heard from a Good-aligned person, and it's clear that the gods are willing to come to the table already. So why didn't Redcloak just say "no" and make a harder counteroffer?
-
2020-08-03, 12:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2004
- Location
Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
I agree. Durkon did not waltz unprepared into this, simply expecting successful diplomacy with an evil cleric -- but he was morally obliged to try.
This is Redcloak's Evolve Or Die moment. Durkon ably steered the conversation to the specific interests of the many living breathing goblins in Goblotopia, and even signed on for getting Hinjo's personal agreement as well as Thor's. If that opening does not spark Redcloak to cut a deal for goblins interests with him, then no peaceful deal is possible.I owe Peelee 5 Quatloos. But I am going double or nothing that Durkon will be casting 8th level spells at the big finale.
I bet Goblin_Priest 5 quatloos that Xykon does not know RC has the phylactery at this point in the tale (#1139).
Using my Bardic skills I see the fate of Belkar...so close!
Using my Bardic skills I see the fate of goblinkind!
-
2020-08-03, 12:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2010
- Location
- Porto Alegre, Brazil
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
-
2020-08-03, 12:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2019
- Location
- Magrathea
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.
See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.
Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
Green is serious talk about hypothetical
Blue is irony and sarcasm
"I think, therefore I am,
I walk, therefore I stand,
I sleep, therefore I dream;
I joke, therefore I meme."
-Squire Doodad
-
2020-08-03, 12:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2011
Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
My thoughts exactly. Redcloak is really ambivalent about killing Durkon, but feels like it's his only choice. Or he's deceived himself into thinking it's his only choice.
I was pretty impressed with Durkon's attempts to negotiate here. He's really trying to expand himself and work on his empathy for people who are vastly unlike him.
However, he failed, and I'm not surprised -- he's new at this after all. But what surprised me the most was the reason why he failed.
It's the same reason a lot of people were giving Redcloak grief earlier.
Durkon didn't really understand the background and motivations of his negotiating party. He made assumptions about Redcloak's motivations that were only partially correct. He doesn't know Redcloak's past and traumas and the baggage he's still carrying.
Also, he closed with an ultimatum: Do what I suggested at the start, and maybe just maybe you'll get some of the things you consider essential. The final offer needs to be multilateral. That's a recipe for failure.
-
2020-08-03, 12:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2017
- Location
- France
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
-
2020-08-03, 12:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2019
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
I don't know if a) Durkon set up Word of Recall and b) if he's willing to endanger the Mechane pirates in case RC or Xykon come after them.
What's the chance of Durkon making the save? Any D&Ders know the percentage? Judging by his expression in the last panel, it looks like things went Durkon-shaped in the most literal sense possible.
Overall, these discussions lasted seven pages (five strips). Seven pages and not even a tenth into the story. Durkon's setting himself some new records on his death-o-meter.
-
2020-08-03, 12:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
This. It's the perfect deal; it gives Redcloak everything the goblinoids could reasonably ask for - and a bit extra. Durkon is assuming the acquiescence of both Thor and Hinjo (although those parties are also getting decent deals) and - even better - it's costing Redcloak nothing. This is as good as it gets. Peace was never an option if he refuses this.
Completely unrelated side note: Anyone want to stat up a Sunken Cost elemental?
-
2020-08-03, 12:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
The closest thing to rational calculation at work here is likely the conviction that the Good gods will only be ready to make sincere concessions once he and the Dark One have their finger on the big red button. His seeming ambivalence may indicate that Durkon has at least convinced him that he himself is sincere in wanting to make a compromise, but his offer depends on persuading Hinjo, Thor and who knows who else to let Gobbotopia be, among other things, and there is room to doubt he'll be able to do that.
Last edited by TRH; 2020-08-03 at 12:44 PM.
-
2020-08-03, 12:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2004
- Location
Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
The thing the deal denies Redcloak is revenge for generations of injury, some imagined but many very real. Also, it implicitly admits that working with this lich may have been a bad idea. Redcloak has probably been telling himself that he and TDO are really in control of this path, because of the betrayal hidden within the alliance with Xykon. If Redcloak says yes to Durkon, he has to deal with Xykon more or less immediately. In the short term, that it a risky choice. But it would be a choice that probably serves the long term interests of the goblins of Goblotopia. Is Redcloak willing to give up his imagined control over this extremely dangerous situation to bet it all on Goblotopia and working with Durkon? If Goblotopia is actually important, then Durkon is probably right....
I owe Peelee 5 Quatloos. But I am going double or nothing that Durkon will be casting 8th level spells at the big finale.
I bet Goblin_Priest 5 quatloos that Xykon does not know RC has the phylactery at this point in the tale (#1139).
Using my Bardic skills I see the fate of Belkar...so close!
Using my Bardic skills I see the fate of goblinkind!
-
2020-08-03, 12:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2010
- Location
- Gobbotopia
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
idle thought: What if Redcloak ISN'T imploding Durkon out of malice? He's looking away and offscreen, maybe he sees Xykon coming and is trying to save Durkon from having his soul captured? Or maybe Redcloak is hoping to bring Durkon somewhere else more private and raise him there, outside of a place where any bugbear or lich could wander in.
Avy by Thormag
Spoiler
-
2020-08-03, 12:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2019
- Location
- Magrathea
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
So it'd be an emotion elemental, possibly a Lawful Neutral one? Anyone have a sample of a Pain Elemental or something that we can use some of?
I imagine it has a muted blue body, made out of viscous liquid despair over what has already been lost, with chunks of solid resolve, including lining its "hands".Last edited by Squire Doodad; 2020-08-03 at 12:47 PM.
An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.
See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.
Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
Green is serious talk about hypothetical
Blue is irony and sarcasm
"I think, therefore I am,
I walk, therefore I stand,
I sleep, therefore I dream;
I joke, therefore I meme."
-Squire Doodad
-
2020-08-03, 12:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
-
2020-08-03, 12:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2005
- Location
- Vancouver, BC, Canada
Re: OOTS #1209 - The Discussion Thread
Maybe this means that Durkon will have to make the deal with another goblinoid cleric with less baggage? Either after defeating Red Cloak (leading to a new bearer of the cloak to negotiate with) or just otherwise?