Ability Check Expertise

[paladinn]

Hola todos,

One of the DMG alternate mechanics is the "ability check proficiency." Instead of a character having proficiency in a given skill, s/he has the proficiency in anything related to a given ability stat. So no Stealth proficiency; the proficiency is in Dex, etc.

Has anyone played using this mechanic? Does it become OP at all? If a rogue gets Expertise, s/he gets expertise in one entire ability stat. Does this get as OP as I think it might? How would this work in conjunction with all the traditional rogue/thief skills?

Gracias!

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

Hola todos,

One of the DMG alternate mechanics is the "ability check proficiency." Instead of a character having proficiency in a given skill, s/he has the proficiency in anything related to a given ability stat. So no Stealth proficiency; the proficiency is in Dex, etc.

Has anyone played using this mechanic? Does it become OP at all? If a rogue gets Expertise, s/he gets expertise in one entire ability stat. Does this get as OP as I think it might? How would this work in conjunction with all the traditional rogue/thief skills?

Gracias!

I have not played with this mechanic, no. I think it probably does get OP, if only because Dex is such a good choice for proficiency bonus (or even double proficiency bonus) to initiative.

[NaughtyTiger]

found it DMG 263, Ability Check Proficiency.

holy cow that feels unbalanced....
on the other hand it just removes skills outright, so that's a thing...

[Qendal]

I have not played with this alternate rule and it does sound unbalanced

[Lunali]

I have not played with this mechanic, no. I think it probably does get OP, if only because Dex is such a good choice for proficiency bonus (or even double proficiency bonus) to initiative.

Not to mention bard getting CHA expertise for dispel, counterspell, telekinesis, etc.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

Not to mention bard getting CHA expertise for dispel, counterspell, telekinesis, etc.

True enough. Bards are already the best at those things purely from Jack of All Trades; imagine double proficiency instead of half.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Hola todos,

One of the DMG alternate mechanics is the "ability check proficiency." Instead of a character having proficiency in a given skill, s/he has the proficiency in anything related to a given ability stat. So no Stealth proficiency; the proficiency is in Dex, etc.

Has anyone played using this mechanic? Does it become OP at all? If a rogue gets Expertise, s/he gets expertise in one entire ability stat. Does this get as OP as I think it might? How would this work in conjunction with all the traditional rogue/thief skills?

Gracias!

I actually like using this system in conjunction with allowing players to use a more 13th Age style background system.

So, say you're a soldier. You get your proficiency with any ability check related to being a soldier.

I would also say to mix saving throws in with it.

Fighter

Background: Soldier

Ability Checks: All Str and Con checks have prof. Gain proficiency with all dex, int, wis, and wha checks related to being a soldier.

Charisma check to perform the play Aladin in front of a crowd? No prof. Charisma check to intimidate a crowd? Prof.

Cleric

Background: Acolyte

Ability Checks: All Wisdom and Charisma checks. Gain prof with any other ability checks related to being an acolyte.

Cleric wants to perform a ceremony in front of a crowd? Prof. Cleric wants to sneak? No prof.




It's a lot more flexible and I think this hybrid works well with what 5e wants in being a rules lite and theater of the mind. With this, be flexible, tho you could add more backgrounds to a character if you make them more specific backgrounds (drill sergeant instead of just a generic soldier).

[NaughtyTiger]

I actually like using this system in conjunction with allowing players to use a more 13th Age style background system.
So, say you're a soldier. You get your proficiency with any ability check related to being a soldier.

I would also say to mix saving throws in with it.
Fighter
Background: Soldier
Ability Checks: All Str and Con checks have prof. Gain proficiency with all dex, int, wis, and wha checks related to being a soldier.
Charisma check to perform the play Aladin in front of a crowd? No prof. Charisma check to intimidate a crowd? Prof.

Cleric
Background: Acolyte
Ability Checks: All Wisdom and Charisma checks. Gain prof with any other ability checks related to being an acolyte.
Cleric wants to perform a ceremony in front of a crowd? Prof. Cleric wants to sneak? No prof.

It's a lot more flexible and I think this hybrid works well with what 5e wants in being a rules lite and theater of the mind. With this, be flexible, tho you could add more backgrounds to a character if you make them more specific backgrounds (drill sergeant instead of just a generic soldier).

Holy crap, this slight change makes it palatable. (still too strong on my mental paper, but the concept is nice)
My attitude on this is almost a 180 flip...

high charisma doesn't automatically mean good at performance and intimidation
i don't need to figure out the difference between investigation and perception
i can handle "new skills" like miliatary organization or noble's etiquette

[paladinn]

Holy crap, this slight change makes it palatable. (still too strong on my mental paper, but the concept is nice)
My attitude on this is almost a 180 flip...

How/would this manifest for rogue/thief skills? Expertise btb allows for double proficiency with any one ability check if using ability check proficiency

[NaughtyTiger]

How/would this manifest for rogue/thief skills? Expertise btb allows for double proficiency with any one ability check if using ability check proficiency

Are you asking me "how would SpawnOfMorbo's idea work with expertise?"

since I didn't come up with that concept, or ever even thought about it until 20 minutes ago, i don't know.

but here's a spitball

DMG 263, Ability Check Proficiency. basically says that a character gets proficiency in all ability checks for a 2 abilities instead of individual skills.
Expertise on 2 skills becomes proficiency on another ability.

so maybe add another background proficiency instead of expertise?

base background is criminal
rogue expertise picks up folk hero (if she were robin hood like) or charleton (if she were con man)