Witch Hunt!

[rogue_alchemist]

I mean we have pretty well broken down the possibilities. So if there is some further intel to be gained by waiting/discussing, then I am all for it; otherwise let's hammer Xi and worry about BoF/JW after that.

[AvatarVecna]

Xihirli. Gotta keep things moving forward, even if the results are inevitable and what makes the difference here is who got what role.

[rogue_alchemist]

Just need Cao's vote and it'll finish it off.

[rogue_alchemist]

Just by way of reminder, we only have 24 hours left.

[CaoimhinTheCape]

We can also test my claim by letting the vote expire without a consensus, but if I was fake claiming then that would hand over the game to the witches. I don't think we should do this, but I am just pointing out that there is a mechanic to test every roll but the one that Apogee claimed.

That's the funny thing I was hinting to AV about. It would definitely prove you as Town or it would lose us the game. So probably too risky but if we felt good enough about doing that, it's one more person proven.

Going for No Lynch today only confirms whether the judge is alive or dead, not that you specifically are the judge, though.

I mean, I'm fine going No Lynch or voting Xihirli. Xihirli loses a life either way, unless you're lying in which case this is all scum theatre anyway.

I actually disagree - going with No Lynch will prove RA as Judge.

RA as judge
Xi is lynched but doesn't die. Yay!

Valmark as judge
As AV outlined earlier, we lose anyway unless Bunny comes back.

Bunny as judge
Bunny comes back to lynch at night and counterclaims, we know it is one of those two.

Or Bunny doesn't come back and there's no judge lynch.




TL;DR I think it will prove RA as judge but I don't know that it really matters at this point. That said, I'll hammer Xihirli and hope we got this.


I have thoughts about a different move town could have made earlier but I'll wait till postgame to discuss.

[Aventine]

Xihirli should be lynched, but survives

Night Four Begins
And will end in roughly 24 hours

[Aventine]

CaoimhinTheCape dies during the night
Night Four Ends

---

(Since Bunny is still missing, I'd like to replace him with Cape, if Cape is willing)

[Aventine]

and because I'm an idiot and left off the start-of-day announcement from the end of night one...

Day Five Begins
(There are 5 living players: the day will end once a majority of 3 votes is reached or after 48 hours)

[rogue_alchemist]

I am fine with Cao replacing Bunny, so long as there isn't any info leak. I mean I know we all know was Cao's role was, so that shouldn't be a problem, but I don't know if he had access to someone else's info.

As for our move, it seems pretty obvious we need to lynch Xi again, but I am open to some discussion before we finalize that. If Bunny is hopping back on (haha, I'm so funny) then I look forward to a claim from Bunny (Cao) and we can try to figure out what role they have. Though I am fairly certain how this is going to progress.

Bunny (Cao) is going to claim Vampire Hunter or else counter claim one of us (probably me as judge, because Bunny was AFK since before that missed lynch too), just to cause confusion. They are really the JW and that is why Aventine needs them to be filled instead of letting them fall off. If they really were something useless like the Vampire Hunter, then Aventine would have let them just disappear. Though Cao will probably argue that Aventine was just trying to avoid a tie vote due to absenteeism.

[Apogee1]

Is there anything to do but this?

VOTE:Xihirli

[Xihirli]

Consider: If we kill AvatarVecna, I'd be happier.

[rogue_alchemist]

I am waiting on approval/acceptance of Cao for Bunny, and then hear their role claim.

[AvatarVecna]

I am waiting on approval/acceptance of Cao for Bunny, and then hear their role claim.

Same, more or less.

- - - Updated - - -

...waitaminute.

- - - Updated - - -

I just realized something hilarious.

- - - Updated - - -

This game actually has a possibility of ending in an Infinite Stalemate.

[rogue_alchemist]

don't keep it to yourself, unless the effect is better after dramatic pause/irony.

[AvatarVecna]

don't keep it to yourself, unless the effect is better after dramatic pause/irony.

I mean idk how likely it is to come up but...what if just cuz of weirdness along the way, the game ends up with only two players left, the traveler and a witch? Lynch can't get majority, judge isn't there to adjudicate, but the traveler can't get NK'd. Oops!

- - - Updated - - -

The only potential way out of it (besides...yknow...either side deciding to throw the game) is...well, I'm not sure if the witch can sacrifice themselves for an unblockable kill, but it's such a weird edge case at that point.

[rogue_alchemist]

huh, that would be pretty crazy. Though with the way this game is progressing, entirely feasible. Hopefully the town would lynch the witch when it is 2vs1, but with either a mislynch or a no lynch majority (due to AFK or whatever) it could very easily happen.

[Aventine]

Caoimhin replaces Bunny

---

I mean idk how likely it is to come up but...what if just cuz of weirdness along the way, the game ends up with only two players left, the traveler and a witch? Lynch can't get majority, judge isn't there to adjudicate, but the traveler can't get NK'd. Oops!

- - - Updated - - -

The only potential way out of it (besides...yknow...either side deciding to throw the game) is...well, I'm not sure if the witch can sacrifice themselves for an unblockable kill, but it's such a weird edge case at that point.

I see no reason why the last witch couldn't sacrifice themselves. But at that point, with just a witch and traveler left, I'd just end the game in a tie anyway. If the witch doesn't self-sacrifice, neither side can kill the other, if the witch does self-sacrifice, everyone is dead. Either way, it's a draw. (I guess the only difference is that if everyone is dead, the werewolf can probably claim a part in the tie.)

[AvatarVecna]

So Cao...got a claim?

[CaoimhinTheCape]

OK. We got a problem then. Cause I'm actually the Judge. That's why we didn't get anyone lynched on Night 1, Bunny wasn't around to pick a lynch target.


So, basically AV and Apogee are confirmed at this point. The two of you need to decide between me and rogue, so vote: Rogue_alchemist

- - - Updated - - -

lol, that means Jeen Leen's guess was spot on, he got two witches with that.

[AvatarVecna]

OK. We got a problem then. Cause I'm actually the Judge. That's why we didn't get anyone lynched on Night 1, Bunny wasn't around to pick a lynch target.


So, basically AV and Apogee are confirmed at this point. The two of you need to decide between me and rogue, so vote: Rogue_alchemist

...

...would you like to try again?

- - - Updated - - -

JeenLeen attempts to devour Bunny of Faith as the Judge...and fails

Caoimhin replaces Bunny

OK. We got a problem then. Cause I'm actually the Judge.

kermitsippingtea.jpg

- - - Updated - - -

JeenLeen's actions are so laser-guided on setting up dominos such that every single witch got outed and the game went town's way at every single turn, that I am now convinced JeenLeen is a time traveler, and somehow town losing this game ended up triggering IRL WW3.

[Xihirli]

Forgot about the no edit rule, sorry.
Unvote: AvatarVecna

Cao be makin' the mathemological sense. Let's kill Rogue_Alchemist!

[Apogee1]

So

Me, AV, and Rogue can hammer Xihirli

One of us dies tonight

The other 2 hit Cao tomorrow

Nice nice

Or have I missed something obvious

[AvatarVecna]

So

Me, AV, and Rogue can hammer Xihirli

One of us dies tonight

The other 2 hit Cao tomorrow

Nice nice

Or have I missed something obvious

Nope, you've missed nothing. Xihirli

[Xihirli]

You've missed something.

World War 3 is caused by Town winning, and JeenLeen is a doomsday cultist from the future.

[CaoimhinTheCape]

...

...would you like to try again?

Oh. Uhh. Crap.

I mean.

Yes please?

I swear I did not mean to throw, there was some logic in that.



By all of that I mean, rogue_alchemist for lynch?

[Aventine]

Ahhhh, hmm.

I've been distracted today, but I think it's probably best to just call it here.

Town Wins!

Spoiler: Roles

Show

Coven
Unavenger - Assassin
Xihirli - Warlock
Elenna - Spy Enchantress

Bunny of Faith - Junior Witch

Town
Valmark - Vampire Hunter
Apogee - Acolyte
gac - Priest
JonnyPatches - Vengeful Bastard
rogue_alchemist - Judge
AV - Traveler
Caoimhin - Survivalist
Snow - Martyr

Wildcard
JeenLeen - Werewolf

So I made a bad, very embarrassing mistake. The original rules I was stealing from had something I decided not to use. Dead players stayed in the game as "angels" with a collective bane they voted on. As far as I could tell, it came from playing the game in person. And I can understand it there, sitting around waiting for the game to end after you die isn't the most exciting. But online, it doesn't matter much, you aren't a captive audience. That, combined with the fact that I was really not a fan of a baner that can't be killed, meant I decided to just drop the whole thing back when I decided to run this game. The issue is the old rules also had a listed order that the roles would be added in, and during recruitment I figured just using that would be simpler than trying to work out the balance myself. I'd completely forgotten at that point that the "angels" thing had ever been there, and so didn't think to adjust for having removed them. There are definitely a lot of scum, more than I would ever put in a game normally, but there is also the spy balancing that. So I went ahead with it. It was pure, ironic serendipity that Jeen going public and provoking a spy claim shifting things so strongly in town's favor and balanced my mistake. The game was actually wide open for a while there, and either side could have won.

I definitely should have swapped out the warlock and enchantress for the demon and necromancer though. Information-gathering is always a pretty interesting role, and it would have weakened the witches nicely.

[rogue_alchemist]

I am fine with Cao replacing Bunny, so long as there isn't any info leak. I mean I know we all know was Cao's role was, so that shouldn't be a problem, but I don't know if he had access to someone else's info.

As for our move, it seems pretty obvious we need to lynch Xi again, but I am open to some discussion before we finalize that. If Bunny is hopping back on (haha, I'm so funny) then I look forward to a claim from Bunny (Cao) and we can try to figure out what role they have. Though I am fairly certain how this is going to progress.

Bunny (Cao) is going to claim Vampire Hunter or else counter claim one of us (probably me as judge, because Bunny was AFK since before that missed lynch too), just to cause confusion. They are really the JW and that is why Aventine needs them to be filled instead of letting them fall off. If they really were something useless like the Vampire Hunter, then Aventine would have let them just disappear. Though Cao will probably argue that Aventine was just trying to avoid a tie vote due to absenteeism.

I made this prediction back in my original post. I also completely forgot that JeenLeen had tried to eat Bunny as Judge and so that was the one role they could not claim. What are the odds?

[JeenLeen]

More commentary later, but the deadchat has a lot of my thoughts on how exquisitely I screwed up my timing by not trusting people to be honest.

JeenLeen's actions are so laser-guided on setting up dominos such that every single witch got outed and the game went town's way at every single turn, that I am now convinced JeenLeen is a time traveler, and somehow town losing this game ended up triggering IRL WW3.

And all that set-up from losing the first Mafia game, but now AV declaring it has caused WWIV (WWIII passes quickly now)

[Unavenger]

If it's any consolation, the JW substitution was basically too late to matter anyway.

I think there are other problems with this setup in general - one of which is that there's a 25% chance that the Spy is the JW (assuming JW is definitely one of the witch roles) allowing them to gamesolve in the first post, and if the spy isn't the JW, the spy still has every reason to trade themselves for two of the witches and force the JW to try to solo the rest of the town - assuming the witches don't accidentally kill the JW which they can very easily do (another issue). The fact that the remaining JW can't actually kill one of the town makes it very difficult for the witches to win without all of them claiming spy immediately too - and "I'm the spy, both of the other people who just claimed spy are the real witches" is generally a believable claim if you're not one of the people they said was a witch.

In this game, I probably should have actually claimed spy before Elenna did, pointing to her and someone else as the witches, but I don't think that would have helped either.

Mostly, the fact that this game messes with the "Uninformed majority vs informed minority" dynamic by making us play Inception: the Game (You'll notice that I was throwing out towntells because I was town in the minigame) just makes things really hard to deal with, and spending a large amount of the game suspecting you've already lost but having to wait it out to make sure is a bit unfortunate.

[JeenLeen]

I mentioned this in deadchat, but I think one of the issues was there's a very strict tension between werewolf, witch, and town. That tension seems very easy to break in a way that makes one faction almost certainly set to win or lose. The tension shouldn't break if everyone makes smart enough moves: either the game continues with info revealed but in a smart way that keeps the tension, OR info is not revealed yet and the tension is maintained.

When I claimed Traveler, I figured the real Traveler would think I was fakeclaiming to draw out the werewolf (worked) and that the witches would probably think I'm maybe-bluffing but wouldn't risk wasting a kill to test it.
When I claimed Spy, I was mainly thinking that would work best for getting roles exposed and I was trying to get Xihirli killed (as she makes it hard to figure out her role). I didn't realize the domino effect of the real Spy claiming and that putting the wolves so rough.
Since everybody seemed against the Judge not judging, I figured the Judge would have judged if the judge were there to judge. Hence trying to devour BoF... which left me dead and broke the tension.

I can see a ghost-baner helping with that. Especially if the ghost-votes are private, so witches can try to protect a witch without outting them to the other ghosts or living players.

EDIT: if the witches had a necromancer, I can see that helping. And it would have been hilarious to see the witch-chat if they managed to kill me N1 but they knew the werewolf was dead but Town didn't.

Here's my reaction:

The game basically started with a mere seven summoning types, but four of them fall under the mechanic of the "Normal Summon."
There are four types of normal summoning. They are the standard Normal Summon, the Normal Set (which is also not a summoning mechanic at all, but enables Flip Summoning), the Tribute Summon, and the Tribute Set.
Normal summoning is when you summon a 4-star or lower monster in attack mode. Normal Setting is when you set a monster in defense mode. When this is done, the monster is Face-Down, meaning any effects it has are negated but your opponent can't see what it is until they attack it. Higher star monsters require a Tribute to summon or set - a six or seven star monster requires a Tribute of one monster, while an 8+ star monster requires a Tribute of two monsters. Some monsters, like the Egyptian God Cards, require three tributes. All of this falls under the Normal Summon mechanic, and you are only allowed one Normal Summon per turn barring specific effects.
The last type of summoning we'll address before entering the Special Summoning Umbrella is Flip Summoning. This is when you switch a monster from face-down Defense Mode into Attack Mode. It does not take your Normal Summon for the turn, but it isn't Special Summoning either.
The other two summoning forms in early Yu-Gi-Oh! are both forms of Special Summoning. A player is allowed to Special Summon an unlimited number of monsters per turn, as many as their cards allow. This is why the game is.... just really bad right now.
Ritual Summoning involves using a spell card to special summon the Ritual Monster, sacrificing monsters of the same level as Ritual material from your hand or field (or deck or graveyard or banished pile now because it’s gone crazy). Fusion Summoning is similar, with two changes: one, the fusion materials are usually more specific, so it is more difficult to get them in the hand (though now you can fusion summon with materials from the DECK because why not), and second, the monster you are summoning is not in your hand but your Extra (once called “fusion”) Deck. In other words, you do not need the monster in your hand to summon it.

These were the summoning mechanics of old-school Yu-Gi-Oh! Decently complicated, but overall there’s not a WHOLE lot of barrier to entry. You CAN build a decent deck without any Fusion or Ritual monsters in this format. You still want some special summoning, but main deck monsters that special summon tell you how to use them on the card. This, plus the Magic and Trap Card system, made for a card game. Yes. A card game.

I take from this that you prefer before all the new summoning mechanics. Is that accurate?
I don't like the new rules, but I admit that's largely without experience of them. I liked it when the game usually took 2-5 turns to really build up your field, via builds like Warrior Toolbox or Chaos. I forget exactly when I dropped out of the game, but probably at least a decade ago. Synchro summoning was a new thing and, between that and power creep of some other deck builds, it seemed like most games was done within the first few rounds (or at least decided), which made it less fun for me.

For your upcoming Yugioh game, are the players duelists or rules concepts?