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Thread: Witch Hunt!

  1. - Top - End - #91
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BlueWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Witch Hunt!

    Cool, lots of wallposts to read through.

    I think Valmarkís response to AV might be what Iím looking for from town!him, but I donít quite know yet.

    Slightly more thorough catch-up to come later when Iím awake enough to take things in properly.
    Werewolf games won: 7 (as town three times, wolf, evil mutant, town a fourth time and Russian spy. Don't ask.)

    Werewolf games lost: 1 (as survivor)

    Number of deaths: 4 (killed night one for trying (and mostly failing) to do crazy stuff; killed night zero for being crazy enough to narrate a game; horribly murdered by Valmark, Xihirli and Lord Athos for no particular reason night one; killed night two for being the Seer)

  2. - Top - End - #92
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Witch Hunt!

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    I don't particularly feel like spelling out the full strategy, primarily because there's some follow-up steps that are needed to avoid scenarios like what you're talking about and I don't want to just hand this to whoever the actual wolf is. Suffice to say, it can work if you're ballsy enough...so really, there's like three people on this site that could make it work.



    See, I was all ready to townread you for awhile and then you go and write stuff like "maybe we should actually not lynch anybody".

    If the wolf and the spy were townies, and we had an extra townie, and we knew who died upon death, that's still three witches against us with no baner and only a couple roles that can't be immediately killed when targeted - and to counter those "extra lives", there's extra kills floating around too. That's four, maybe five mislynches before LYLO/MYLO. Even though we get no info from the lynch, and even though we're basically going to firing blind the whole game, we can't give up the lynch entirely. Maybe we hammer somebody, maybe we hand it off to the judge after spending the full day discussing stuff. But the judge shouldn't abstain if we can't come to a conclusion - the judge role exists to make sure that even if town can't get along, no lynch goes by without at least trying to kill somebody.

    (I'd also wager that the days are longer specifically to give us more time to analyze and think things over.)
    What about voting for who the judge kills is worse than lynching?

  3. - Top - End - #93
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    Default Re: Witch Hunt!

    Quote Originally Posted by gac3 View Post
    What about voting for who the judge kills is worse than lynching?
    For some reason I read your post as advocating for actually no lynch. The opening really reads that way, that lynching today at all is a giant mistake? Except I think it isn't? Apologies.


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  4. - Top - End - #94
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    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: Witch Hunt!

    There are about 15 hours until day ends and the lynch is passed to the judge

    Vote Count (7 required for majority)
    AvatarVecna: 3 (JeenLeen, Snow, Caoimhin)
    Valmark: 2 (Bunny, Xihirli)
    Unavenger: 1 (Valmark)
    JeenLeen: 1 (rogue_alchemist)
    Snowblaze: 1 (AV)
    Bunny of Faith: 1 (Elenna)

    No Lynch: 2 (gac3, Unavenger)

    Not voting: 2 (Apgoee, JonnyPatches)
    Last edited by Aventine; 2020-08-07 at 01:33 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #95
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    BlueWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Witch Hunt!

    Okay.

    - no idea what AV’s planning now, but I don’t think my claim would be the right one to activate it.
    - my gut is telling me AV is town, but my brain is telling me I thought that in BoB... I¬íll probably just take the usual approach of ¬ďhope someone kills them¬Ē - oh, wait, no flips.
    - Their assessment of how screwed we are is probably accurate.
    - Valmark and JeenLeen both leaning town
    - I have no idea who I want to vote for
    - still trying to work out what I make of the claim.

    Or: Snowblaze’s usual day one, except with even more paranoia and uncertainty.
    Werewolf games won: 7 (as town three times, wolf, evil mutant, town a fourth time and Russian spy. Don't ask.)

    Werewolf games lost: 1 (as survivor)

    Number of deaths: 4 (killed night one for trying (and mostly failing) to do crazy stuff; killed night zero for being crazy enough to narrate a game; horribly murdered by Valmark, Xihirli and Lord Athos for no particular reason night one; killed night two for being the Seer)

  6. - Top - End - #96
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    Default Re: Witch Hunt!

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowblaze View Post
    Their assessment of how screwed we are is probably accurate.
    Here's a fun drinking game.

    1) Think of literally any way you could go about trying to use claims to accomplish anything.

    2) Now that you've got a plan in mind, think "if I were a witch and thought town would use that strat, how would I take advantage of the whole 'no role confirmations' thing to screw it up".

    3a) If you thought of a way for witches to screw up your claim plan, take a drink and go back to step 1.

    3b) If you couldn't think of any way for witches to screw up your plan, please tell me cuz I'd love to tell you why you should've gone to 3a instead of 3b.


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  7. - Top - End - #97
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    Default Re: Witch Hunt!

    For the moment I'll vote Valmark.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh I'm a dumb, let's try that again. Valmark.


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  8. - Top - End - #98
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Witch Hunt!

    Hmmm. On the one hand, AV showed up right when there was tons of pressure. I like the idea of a large ISO post, but I honestly find a lot of it hypocritical.

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post


    [CaoimhinTheCape's ISO]

    My first instinct was to agree with Unavenger, that No Lynch is a safe place to vote (especially on Day 1) but Elenna makes some good points for why it's better to vote and avoid majority, if that's what we decide to do. I'm leaning town on both of them
    Slight scum lean. Feels a bit wishy-washy.



    [Elenna's ISO]

    Null. Glad to see somebody who actually has a bunch of posts though.


    [Snowblaze ISO]

    Info-lynches aren't a thing, so town's goal is to talk and talk and analyze and talk and analyze and analyze until we feel we've got a solid grasp on whose posts feel the weirdest coming from a townie and lynch them for it, and keep doing that until the game ends and we find out how accurate our hunches were/weren't. But that requires:

    1) A super-active town to begin with, which... *glances at thread*

    Pulling out pieces of the ISO thread:

    Saying I'm wishy-washy
    Y'all are probably used to it by now, I feel like I don't commit to anything too early. While AV calls me wishy-washy for eventually leaning town on both, AV's reads amount to 5 Null, 2 Null/slight evil, 2 Slight evil, 1 Slight Town, and 1 Town read. I'll grant you that some of the Nulls are from lack of content, but I don't read this as any less wishy-washy, with only 1 strong read of the bunch and others you could easily walk back on.

    Wanting an active thread
    Happy that Elenna has lots of posts, and then says town's goal is to talk a lot and analyze. Then is disappointed that the town isn't super active. Good argument normally, less so from someone's second post in the entire game. For wanting an active game, AV hasn't posted at all (at least, until there was a 4 vote wagon on her).


    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    I admit I am rather curious to see what responses my claim generates.
    I mean, I definitely have thoughts but I'm not sure saying them would help town. Counterclaims could come from anywhere, for any reason. Even if/after you die there's no way to tell if that was the truth - really, the only way is if Werewolf accuses you of being the Traveler.






    I'm not convinced AV is town, but I'd rather UNVOTE, Vote: Xihirli for lack of any read. I can't tell which side they're on and at least with AV there will be stuff to look at later in the game.







    Vote Count (7 required for majority)
    AvatarVecna: 2 (JeenLeen, Snow)
    Valmark: 3 (Bunny, Xihirli, AV)
    Unavenger: 1 (Valmark)
    JeenLeen: 1 (rogue_alchemist)
    Bunny of Faith: 1 (Elenna)
    Xihirli: 1 (Caoimhin)

    No Lynch: 2 (gac3, Unavenger)

    Not voting: 2 (Apgoee, JonnyPatches)

  9. - Top - End - #99
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Witch Hunt!

    Sorry I dropped the ball, work got crazy. I'm going to be active from this point forward. Sorry again I'm gonna be catching up on all the threads from this point forward.

    - - - Updated - - -

    No Lynch

    There's not enough info to really tell at this point, plus I don't know how any of you play. Not gonna risk losing numbers this early on and hopefully someone slips up.

  10. - Top - End - #100
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Witch Hunt!

    Well, the wagon if off AV, and little chance of it reforming there. Also, she does seem more town after her post, though I stand by my statement that something seems a bit off about her ISOs, as if she's trying to mislead us somehow and we can't really trust her reads.
    Though she does that as Town somehow, too

    But some stuff Valmark has said felt a little off, and I'm curious to see how folk react to wagons, so...
    UNVOTE AvatarVecna
    VOTE Valmark

  11. - Top - End - #101
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Witch Hunt!

    Major apologies for not being around much I only got power and wifi back this morning.

    If I understand it right EOD is in about 7 hours so I'll do my very best to get reads and gamestate thoughts out.

  12. - Top - End - #102
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Witch Hunt!

    I am not actually affiliated with AV that I know of, though if I was, I probably wouldn't tell you.

    Spoiler: Not really on topic but relevant and funny
    Show
    Also, was rooting through some previous game threads and found something funny in hindsight:

    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    I can only imagine the complaints if I were to run a game where I introduced absolute majority lynches with hammer votes, or prohibited town from nighttalking.

  13. - Top - End - #103
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Witch Hunt!

    The silence this close to Day's end is frustrating, but I can see the witches not wanting to draw attention to themselves and the werewolf (despite likely concerns about if I'm lying or not) not wanting to reveal themselves D1. Still, was hoping something useful would come of revealing my Role.

    To be explicit: I'm not saying I was lying. I'm just saying it's reasonable that the werewolf would question if I'm lying, since we talked about if people should claim (including fake counterclaims) for the express reason of lying to the werewolf. I'd like to say that more succinctly or subtly, but having trouble finding the words, and I doubt I really need to be subtle since of course the werewolf would question if a claim is true or not.
    I still stand by saying I'm the Traveler.

    Also, FYI now as we can't Nightchat: I'm not sure how much I'll be online Monday and/or Tuesday. I should be on evenings Sat/Sunday, and I still plan to check in Monday/Tuesday at least in the evening/night, hopefully morning, but might do a small outting with the family one or both of those days.

  14. - Top - End - #104
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Witch Hunt!

    I don't have much more to comment on at this point, but this end of day is interesting compared to normal. I'm not too surprised there isn't a flurry of activity or anything. With the Judge being around to make up for the lynch, seems like everyone is content to spread out votes more than normal. We'll have to actually consider the lynch tomorrow though in case Judge dies overnight.

    I may also have limited access over the weekend as my power hasn't come back and the status is "Estimated Restoration : Evaluating Outage". So. Yeah. Will try to check in when I can, more likely to be around Monday.




    Vote Count (7 required for majority)
    AvatarVecna: 1 (Snow)
    Valmark: 4 (Bunny, Xihirli, AV, JeenLeen)
    Unavenger: 1 (Valmark)
    JeenLeen: 1 (rogue_alchemist)
    Bunny of Faith: 1 (Elenna)
    Xihirli: 1 (Caoimhin)

    No Lynch: 3 (gac3, Unavenger, JonnyPatches)

    Not voting: 1 (Apgoee)[/QUOTE]

  15. - Top - End - #105
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    Default Re: Witch Hunt!

    95 non-narrator posts in ~70 hours of play, in a gamemode strictly dependent on discussion and analysis. Oof.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    I am not actually affiliated with AV that I know of, though if I was, I probably wouldn't tell you.
    *sends you unaffiliated smooches*


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  16. - Top - End - #106
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    *sends you unaffiliated smooches*
    ...not actually affiliated other than being lovers out-of-game, that is. *Kiss*

  17. - Top - End - #107
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Witch Hunt!

    Alright we're doing this.

    I normally hate this style of catchup post but eh it's the easiest on this forum's software

  18. - Top - End - #108
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    Default Re: Witch Hunt!

    I think the most I've seen was six pages in 48 hours? Should have been a game where MrsMcGinty partecipated. Maybe the one without power roles, unsure.
    I won an argument with my GM -15/08/2017- (20:32 GMT +1)

    Want to try a WereWolf or Mafia game? Do you already know it and want to play it? Nothing currently recruiting!


  19. - Top - End - #109
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Witch Hunt!

    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    D1 voting is a hell of a mess usually anyway, and doesn't often mean much. And there's no reason why we can't tell things to the judge for as long as we're confident they're alive, which is... well, we're certain they're alive D1, at least. There's nothing stopping people from giving whatever info they have, and then voting NL anyway to allow a confirmed townie to pick the kill target, and I think it's a good idea for at least one night - particularly since the normal lynch has a two thirds chance of doing nothing if it lands on a witch, as it can only kill the assassin.
    Yeah -- we should let the judge deliver the verdict because they can beat enchantress's protection.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    ...are you claiming to know the number and roles of witches in this game?
    UNVOTE gac3
    Unavenger, explain thyself.
    I'm accepting this as a reverse derpclear kind of. It's more commonly a townie line of thought

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Valmark View Post
    Aaaagh that's the kind of reply that always makes me suspect you and then you're never a wolf. But if I have to choose I prefer pointing at Unavenger for now.

    And yeah, I assumed the Enchantress was because we know the lovers are in game.
    Do we know the lovers are in the game?

    If this assurance only comes from the opening post, then I wouldn't read into it at all because it would spew the enchantress as the spy to the wolves if lovers were said to not be in the game via absentee role cards

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by gac3 View Post
    It's been so long since I have been a wolf in a game other than crazy idea. I did so poorly last time, I actually wish I had a chance to see how I would do now that I'm more than two games in.

    But I'm not sure what wolf me would have to gain from not remembering (or claiming not to remember) that the junior witch could be the spy.

    I get pointing at Unavenger but the logic they presented is somewhat sound as far as I can tell. It's also pretty on brand for them. So for now I'll go with Caiohminthe Cape to try to get them talking some.
    Mixed feelings on this quote, but I think my earlier skimmings had me liking gac so I'll come back to him later in my catchup

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunny of Faith View Post
    Super secret vampire role confirmed.

    Valmark, so we've got two people with two votes. Still not sure I get how to do D1 correctly, but as I understand it you point at people to get them to say stuff, to have information for later days? (Based on what they say, and how other people vote)
    I feel bad making reads off of this kind of

    But I think bunny has been in a lot of games now. And this kind of question more often comes from wolves looking to ease there way into the thread IMO

    - - - Updated - - -

    Well by a lot of games I mean enough games to get d1.

    Idk feels bad kind of to make that read but that kind of question pattern I've seen I think

  20. - Top - End - #110
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Witch Hunt!

    Quote Originally Posted by Apogee1 View Post

    Do we know the lovers are in the game?

    If this assurance only comes from the opening post, then I wouldn't read into it at all because it would spew the enchantress as the spy to the wolves if lovers were said to not be in the game via absentee role cards
    Pretty sure it was said earlier but I'll answer it again so I know it's written.

    All we know is the Enchantress had the chance to pick Lovers. They could have elected not to, especially if they were worried about pairing someone with the Wolf or basically creating Masons for the town.

  21. - Top - End - #111
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Witch Hunt!

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowblaze View Post
    Letís go!

    Lynching
    DELETE
    Lynching

    Plan a: vote until a majority is reached
    Advantages:
    Generates the most information
    Forces people to commit to hard stances
    Gives us a good shot at getting accurate reads between us

    Disadvantages:
    Time pressure - thereís a good chance itíll just turn into ďthereís not long until EOD, everyone pile on someoneĒ. I may be slightly biased because time zones, but I donít think thatís a productive way of hitting scum.
    Probability of players being lynch-proof

    Plan b: vote as normal, then judge executes whoever has most votes
    Advantages:
    Has the benefits of normal lynching, without the disadvantages
    Disadvantages:
    Judge may not agree
    What if the judge has the most votes?

    Plan c: no lynch, judge chooses whoever they want
    Advantages: can still kill lynchproof scum
    Disadvantages: judgeís reads could be less accurate than the player base as a whole
    No accountability without vote pressure

    I personally think something along the lines of ďvote as normal, and if no majority is reached the judge should choose between the two or three highest in votes to executeĒ works well. Iíd like to propose that as plan d, and the one I support. Thoughts?

    - - - Updated - - -

    ...ah, I copy-pasted badly and I canít edit posts *sob*
    Yeah literally no reason d1 to do anything but let the judge decide.

    Harder to block dayvig as so long as they at least consider arguments >> normal vote

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by CaoimhinTheCape View Post
    Pretty sure it was said earlier but I'll answer it again so I know it's written.

    All we know is the Enchantress had the chance to pick Lovers. They could have elected not to, especially if they were worried about pairing someone with the Wolf or basically creating Masons for the town.
    Huh. Interesting and kinda bad for town if true.

    Spyplay is still something I'm trying to wrap my head around a lot

    And I'm very confused by the implications especially with flipless.

  22. - Top - End - #112
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    ElfRogueGirl

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    Default Re: Witch Hunt!

    Quote Originally Posted by JonnyPatches View Post
    Sorry I dropped the ball, work got crazy. I'm going to be active from this point forward. Sorry again I'm gonna be catching up on all the threads from this point forward.

    - - - Updated - - -

    No Lynch

    There's not enough info to really tell at this point, plus I don't know how any of you play. Not gonna risk losing numbers this early on and hopefully someone slips up.
    Welcome!

    Surprised nobody has commented on this yet - are you suggesting that we actually not lynch, as opposed to voting "no lynch" and letting the judge pick a lynch? Because that's something that gets brought up every few games and it's generally agreed to be a bad idea. The witches get a kill each night, so if we do nothing it's just more free kills that they can get while not having to worry about being lynched.

    Speaking of lynches, town's main tool is discussion so we have more to look at to try and find suspicious comments. On that note, have you had a chance to read the thread yet? Obviously things are harder if you haven't seen people's playstyles before, but do you have any thoughts on the strategy discussions? Is there anyone you agree with or don't agree with? Anything that you find confusing?
    I'm Chaotic Good! Ish!

  23. - Top - End - #113
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valmark View Post
    Except all the ones that decided to comment on that reasoning are in disagreement with you. There is no need to be so aggressive, unless you're trying to piss people off or intimidate them for... I dunno.

    Though we are three in disagreement, so we tecnically could be all the witches I guess.
    1+ wolf voted Unavenger before this post.

    I don't know why I picked this post in particular. But one in {Valmark, JeenLeen, Elenna} makes sense

    And it's probably not Elenna sticking by that

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by CaoimhinTheCape View Post
    So, I think we also need to talk about claiming if you're going to be lynched? If someone is about to be lynched, claiming could save you from the town but also gives the Werewolf a likely kill. Won't be as much of a problem early game, if Werewolf cannot chain their kills and becomes exposed and vulnerable the next day. But enough claims and we've given the game to them (unless Withces use a superkill?). If someone does claim, should another player counterclaim when there's no way to prove either of them right?

    On a riskier side, do we want the Werewolf to out themselves early so that the Witches sacrifice one of their own and take out the Werewolf for us?
    Yeah pretty much having claims early game is fine cause the werewolf would out themselves

    And claims late game is yikes cause werewolf
    So we just have to eliminate the claims one way or another before the late game where it matters

    But fakeclaims and such are going to be done by the wolves and maybe town anyways.

  24. - Top - End - #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Surprised nobody has commented on this yet - are you suggesting that we actually not lynch, as opposed to voting "no lynch" and letting the judge pick a lynch? Because that's something that gets brought up every few games and it's generally agreed to be a bad idea. The witches get a kill each night, so if we do nothing it's just more free kills that they can get while not having to worry about being lynched.
    Usually I advocate against Vigs shooting early, but since it is replacing a lynch just echoing that I'd want Judge lynching whenever they can. Lets us know Judge is still alive and if we can rely on a Judge lynch every night we'll get some helpful info.

  25. - Top - End - #115
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    Default Re: Witch Hunt!

    Yay for some last minute (or, well, hour?) analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by CaoimhinTheCape View Post
    Usually I advocate against Vigs shooting early, but since it is replacing a lynch just echoing that I'd want Judge lynching whenever they can. Lets us know Judge is still alive and if we can rely on a Judge lynch every night we'll get some helpful info.
    Agreed. I don't think of the Judge as a vigilante role so much as a way to compensate for having to have a majority lynch.

  26. - Top - End - #116
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowblaze View Post
    ...*internal screaming*

    - - - Updated - - -

    Disagree with Unavengerís logic, but still think theyíre town.

    I would appreciate it if AV could actually do stuff this game, even without QTs.

    I scumread rogue_alchemist, but you may want to take that with a large pinch of salt given Iíve scumread rogue_alchemist in every single game weíve played together and unlike with Valmark, I have no better way to read him yet.

    Xihirli is Xihirli.

    Valmark I donít have a read on yet. I havenít seen the ďspark of towninessĒ yet but itís early enough that I donít mind giving him some time.

    And this is getting dangerously close to a day one reads list, which after Jellicle Ball I should know better than to make, so Iíll stop there.
    Meh snowblaze can be a townlean for this post

    I can't really say why though but I feel it like that

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Gonna try to restart discussion with another strategy question: if the Priest gets an "evil" result, should they claim? What about multiple "evil" results?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Like, in normal play, even without a doctor I'd say a trade of seer for mafia is a good one. But here there's the added risk of giving the werewolf a devour target. IMO it's still worth it for the Priest to claim, especially if it's early enough that they'll probably be witch-killed before the werewolf exposes themselves to start devouring people, but I'm curious what others think.
    Yes, I think so.

    Or maybe we don't and let the priest/acolyte try to lead town there without a claim which tbh could work better in some ways

    - - - Updated - - -

    Spoiler: AV's big post spoilered for sanity
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Spoiler: Apogee1 ISO
    Show


    NAI.


    Null lean. Nothing to go on.

    Spoiler: Bunny of Faith ISO
    Show


    NAI. That's a good summary, and thus far I'm not very optimistic.



    NAI. Essentially, yes.


    Null lean. Basically nothing to go on, just a couple posts clarifying mechanical issues.

    Spoiler: CaoimhinTheCape ISO
    Show


    Slight scum lean. Feels a bit wishy-washy.



    Null lean. This math is off because it assumes that a survivor could be the Spy disguised as a witch that could survive the lynch even though Spy wouldn't get the power. This would be a mark against you...



    ...except you've already been corrected on it and acknowledged that.



    Town's one saving grace is that the wolf and the witches don't want to hunt each other too early, so they won't be as aggressive as they could be.


    Null, very slightly leaning wolf. Just not much to actually go on.

    Spoiler: Elenna ISO
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    Null. Glad to see somebody who actually has a bunch of posts though.





    Scum lean. Unavenger points out how even if the Judge and the Lynch are equally likely to target a witch, the Judge is far more likely to kill a witch, and Elenna deflects to question how Unavenger knows so much about the composition of the witch-team. Which is public information, but even if it's an honest mistake, it's still NAGL that the point being made is going unaddressed.



    Slight town lean. This at least builds on the idea - even if putting the kill in the Judge's hands is the ideal tactic here, we should still discuss stuff publicly to at least give the Judge soemthing to go on.



    Slight scum lean, although I can't put my finger on why. The last bit about the WW feels...indignant, almost? The phrasing feels off for what I expected.



    Slight town lean. The section about town not being able to prove feels like more like a townie bemoaning than a witch pretending to bemoan, if that makes any sense. And yeah not being able to use deaths to gain information kinda sucks.



    Null. Could see scum posting this.

    Priest should claim any evil result because it's literally any information to go on, where town doesn't have any and likely won't ever have any.


    Overall, slight scum lean.

    Spoiler: gac3 ISO
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    These two posts lean town. Gut feeling, feels more like casual-townie than casual-scum.



    NAI.



    NAI, although double anti-claim is interesting.



    NAI, anybody could point this out.



    Slight town lean. Yeah, it sucks that basically nothing is actually verifiable.


    Slight town lean.

    Spoiler: JeenLeen ISO
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    Slight town lean. Gut feeling based on effort in the post, and the directions that effort is going.



    NAI.



    There's not really good options because nothing's verifiable. A lot of this game is going to based on analyzing posts on their own merits rather than analyzing posts after taking deaths into account, or analyzing power usage, which is the usual paths people on this site take towards playing WW. So...we might just be screwed? Eh.

    I mean, I think I know the appropriate move to make in this situation, but I'm also not the one in position to make that move, and saying it aloud would give the game away and make it possible for somebody else to fake such a claim.



    Going into too much detail would be a giant rabbit hole, but I think Scheme A just hands the game to the wolf in more ways than one. Mass-claiming would need to be done carefully.

    Scheme 2's issues largely revolve around the futility of trying at all in this set-up. It would be quite viable in a game where roles were revealed on death, I think.



    Slight scum lean. I think mass claim can work, but it's going to be tricky, and saying why it's tricky would ruin it. I generally feel that advising town to not claim to each other, in a game where there's already a severe information gap, is a giant mistake.



    Slight town lean, solid point about using the hammer to screw the wolf.


    Null lean. Some good, some bad.

    Spoiler: JonnyPatches ISO
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    ...


    Null. Literally nothing to go on.

    Spoiler: rogue_alchemist ISO
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    Slight town lean.



    NAI. This has been addressed by others already so I won't harp on it, but I got a similar impression from the recruitment thread discussion.



    Agreed.



    Already addressed.



    NAI.



    Slight scum lean. The first time you're proven wrong about how you thought a power worked, you'd go back and read it to be sure it works. This clarification question feels like it wouldn't be posted by a townie who already screwed up in good faith, it feels like scum leaning a little more on the "idk how the roles work" card they've already played.



    Slight town lean. Has the right feel to it.


    Null, slightly leaning scum.

    Spoiler: Snowblaze ISO
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    NAI, anybody could've pointed that out.



    NAI.



    I'm not sure what the mistake was in this copypasting so I'm not sure how it was meant to come across. Slight town lean for talking through teh options though.



    Info-lynches aren't a thing, so town's goal is to talk and talk and analyze and talk and analyze and analyze until we feel we've got a solid grasp on whose posts feel the weirdest coming from a townie and lynch them for it, and keep doing that until the game ends and we find out how accurate our hunches were/weren't. But that requires:

    1) A super-active town to begin with, which... *glances at thread*
    2) People to not get discouraged playing a game where you literally have no idea how well/how poorly you're doing until the game very abruptly ends.



    Null, very slight town read for the first bit.



    Slight scum read, because of the Valmark anti-read.


    Null. Not sure how to take most of this tbh, and I'm bad at reading Snowblaze anyway.

    Spoiler: Unavenger ISO
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    Slight town lean. I see the merits of the plan, and I don't really see this post as discouraging discussion the way others have somehow read it.



    Slight town lean. Here's where they clarify that in fact they are encouraging discussion even if they think No Lynch should be town's conclusion.



    Strong town lean for endless salt.



    NAI. Either side could've posted this.



    Votes are a good way of signalling suspicion, though.


    Strong town lean. We might be getting played because Unavenger is catching onto this read, but the salt feels too genuine.

    Spoiler: Valmark ISO
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    NAI



    Slight scum lean.

    Voting "No Lynch" doesn't stifle discussion except in that it doesn't put vote pressure on people to defend themselves, and Unavenger didn't tell people not to discuss stuff. Why are you making out like that's what they said?

    I also don't see where it is Unavenger said people should communicate privately with the Judge, as this post implies. Can you quote it and explain why that's the conclusion you've drawn?



    NAI. Either team could've made that post.



    Null, although could be scumbuddies with Snow? Ehhhhh.



    NAI. I don't think JW!gac would slip in that way, I think gac slipped in a completely different way.



    NAI.



    I wanna see if I'm following the thought process for the underlined part.

    1) You saw Unavenger say "town should discuss stuff even if they vote No Lynch, so that the Judge has something to go on".

    2) You know that most people don't know any useful info except their own role.

    3) You think claiming publicly in this game is a bad idea.

    4) Based on 1/2/3, you think Unavenger was telling people to communicate in private with the Judge, if they communicate at all.

    5) You know that private communication is illegal in this game.

    6) Based on 4/5, you think that when Unavenger said "town should discuss stuff even if they vote No Lynch, so that the Judge has something to go on", you think that what they actually meant was "people shouldn't discuss stuff and should just vote No Lynch, even though that gives the Judge nothing to go on".

    Like, I don't even think "encouraging No Lynch discourages discussion" is completely incorrect, but the route you took to get to that conclusion feels like nonsense.



    NAI.



    NAI, but keep my name outta yer mouth.



    I think their reasoning is mostly sound, and a couple people have made plans based on Unavenger's idea, so it's not like everybody is disagreeing. Last bit could be TWTBAW, maybe is trying to provoke that read? Eh.



    Unavenger was not and never said people should just post "No Lynch" with no other content until the day ends.



    NAI.



    Mass-claiming is an awful idea that basically can't work for town except under very specific circumstances. What people seem to be failing to grasp is that this is true of basically any strategy. Town is ****ed because the whole game is a crapshoot and we're only going to find out if we bet on the right horses 2-3 weeks from now, and mass-claiming is the only strategy that makes that sort-of not true, even if it screws us over for completely different reasons.

    (also, while it's technically not happened yet, the window of opportunity for the "very specific circumstances" under which mass-claiming can work is shrinking and the right first move hasn't been made. I hope they realize that before it's too late.)



    NAI.



    NAI.


    Slight scum lean, but might be biased.

    Spoiler: Xihirli ISO
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    NAI.



    NAI.



    NAI.



    *rubs temples*



    NAI.



    NAI.


    Null. High quantity, nonexistent quality. If anybody else were posting like this, they'd be the poster-child for "I wanted to look active without actually contributing because I'm scum and want town to lose"...but it's Xihirli.


    Meh. I disagree with parts. It's probably NAI for AV cause I've seen them do this as both alignments. I'd be more worried if they expressed thin townreads than the thin scumreads they did tbh

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by gac3 View Post
    Oh man. All this talk about the priest is interesting. I didn't realize/forgot until I reread the description that devouring outs the werewolf. I'm far less concerned with people claiming now. Not that people should claim right now but it's less scary if the priest or someone gets Intel to claim. I'm almost leaning that they should announce any evil reads. The werewolf might kill them but then we have something to go on. I guess it will all depend on how results go.
    Still think it's a good idea for it to be softed first and they hard if priest/acolyte combo can't drag the thread there alone but idk that kinda bears the risk of the werewolf figuring it out all on its own without the hard claim

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Most things are NAI, just because that's kinda the game - the strategy for basically every role in basically every Mafia game is "pretend to be a vanillager" (even if you are a vanillager, you want people to think you are one).
    Interested in why you think this -- I'm happy to look like a PR as a vanillager to have better odds of eating a NK as opposed to the actual PRs in most games.

    But this aside, the larger post has several good points

    I'm not sure I'm going to get to a townread on AV for a while though

  27. - Top - End - #117
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Witch Hunt!

    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Welcome!

    Surprised nobody has commented on this yet - are you suggesting that we actually not lynch, as opposed to voting "no lynch" and letting the judge pick a lynch? Because that's something that gets brought up every few games and it's generally agreed to be a bad idea. The witches get a kill each night, so if we do nothing it's just more free kills that they can get while not having to worry about being lynched.

    Speaking of lynches, town's main tool is discussion so we have more to look at to try and find suspicious comments. On that note, have you had a chance to read the thread yet? Obviously things are harder if you haven't seen people's playstyles before, but do you have any thoughts on the strategy discussions? Is there anyone you agree with or don't agree with? Anything that you find confusing?
    If we vote no lynch and leave it in the judge's hand it gives a slight advantage to the townies. If we vote and hit the judge then we lose a villager and get closer to losing. If we let the judge make the choice, we could still hit the villager but the playing the odds and the number we have a better chance of hitting a witch with wolf. So for this first round at least, I'm more then okay with letting the judge trust their instinct, or not kill someone and we move onto the next night.

  28. - Top - End - #118
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Witch Hunt!

    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Welcome!

    Surprised nobody has commented on this yet - are you suggesting that we actually not lynch, as opposed to voting "no lynch" and letting the judge pick a lynch? Because that's something that gets brought up every few games and it's generally agreed to be a bad idea. The witches get a kill each night, so if we do nothing it's just more free kills that they can get while not having to worry about being lynched.
    Quote Originally Posted by JonnyPatches View Post
    No Lynch

    There's not enough info to really tell at this point, plus I don't know how any of you play. Not gonna risk losing numbers this early on and hopefully someone slips up.
    Completely missed this. Yeah, as Elenna said, not lynching is usually a bad idea because you let the witches have free reign- more so in this game were you can't safely claim or talk privately.
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  29. - Top - End - #119
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Witch Hunt!

    Quote Originally Posted by CaoimhinTheCape View Post
    I don't have much more to comment on at this point, but this end of day is interesting compared to normal. I'm not too surprised there isn't a flurry of activity or anything. With the Judge being around to make up for the lynch, seems like everyone is content to spread out votes more than normal. We'll have to actually consider the lynch tomorrow though in case Judge dies overnight.

    I may also have limited access over the weekend as my power hasn't come back and the status is "Estimated Restoration : Evaluating Outage". So. Yeah. Will try to check in when I can, more likely to be around Monday.




    Vote Count (7 required for majority)
    AvatarVecna: 1 (Snow)
    Valmark: 4 (Bunny, Xihirli, AV, JeenLeen)
    Unavenger: 1 (Valmark)
    JeenLeen: 1 (rogue_alchemist)
    Bunny of Faith: 1 (Elenna)
    Xihirli: 1 (Caoimhin)

    No Lynch: 3 (gac3, Unavenger, JonnyPatches)

    Not voting: 1 (Apgoee)
    [/QUOTE]

    Best of luck and hoping that you get it back shortly

  30. - Top - End - #120
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Witch Hunt!

    Quote Originally Posted by Apogee1 View Post
    Interested in why you think this -- I'm happy to look like a PR as a vanillager to have better odds of eating a NK as opposed to the actual PRs in most games.
    Yeah, the VH should definitely be pretending to be a role that actually does something. I do love the flavour of the role, though (that role PM!).




    And yes, judge should do something, though it only now occurs to me how odd it is that the general advice for mafia is that town should always lynch but vigilantes should only shoot if they're sure. I suppose it's because vigilantism doesn't generate as much discussion?

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