Artificer Battle Smith questions

[MThurston]

My 12 year old son is getting into 5e and is playing an artificer. He wants a Droid so I told him Battle Smith is the way to go.

The issue I see is his attacks. He took Fire Bolt and it does 1d10 damage. He can throw two at 5th level.

Is there a reason to not use spells at level 5 when the Battle Smith can attack twice when it makes the attack action?

Are there other things to tell me that will make his build work.

I see that mending is useful to repair his robot.

Thank you.

[jaappleton]

Well, what's he want the little robot buddy for? As a companion? As something to fight for him?

Consider swapping him to Artillerist, where the turret IS the droid. It can walk around, after all. He gets to do more damage with his cantrips, and he gets his droid. This is my recommendation, as it also means less to manage as far as HP goes, don't need to be such a stickler about keeping track of both his own stuff and the pet companion of Battle Smith.

If he wants to mix spells and using a weapon, stick with Battle Smith. Let him use the cantrips for long range, and his weapon for close range. Nothing wrong with that. Versatility is key, right?

And remember... He's your child. If he's not doing optimal damage, but he's having fun, its all good, right?

EDIT: Another suggestion is to take Find Familiar, and have the animal companion instead be a clockwork construct.

[stoutstien]

unless you houserule, the 'cast a spell' action and 'attack' action are not the same so that might be why the firebolt is looking better than weapon attacks. mending can be ok for battle smith but isn't mandatory thanks to repair and how cheap it is to just make a new steel defender.

[MThurston]

unless you houserule, the 'cast a spell' action and 'attack' action are not the same so that might be why the firebolt is looking better than weapon attacks. mending can be ok for battle smith but isn't mandatory thanks to repair and how cheap it is to just make a new steel defender.

Two longbow shots or two firebolts. The difference being a stat bump for damage.

[MThurston]

So the cannon that the artillery can make hits on a +0 because it has no stats?

Am I missing something?

Doesn't seem as good as Battle Smith.

[Zhorn]

Two longbow shots or two firebolts. The difference being a stat bump for damage.

That'd be a houserule then. battlesmith by RAW isn't going to have a feature to allow two castings of Firebolt.
At 5th levels, a Firebolt will deal a single attack roll with 2d10 fire damage. Sounds like you are thinking of Eldritch Blast which has a single cast of two attack rolls, each dealing 1d10 force damage.
In this case, the Attack Action with the Extra Attack feature will generally be the stronger choice for a Battle Smith, with a longbow is two attack rolls each dealing 1d8+modifier.
It's worth noting if you are ok with firearms, Artificers have proficiency with those, so you can have a musket for 1d12+mod weapon damage per attack, or even taking a heavy crossbow for 1d10+mod if there are no firearms in the setting. Add the Repeating Shot infusion to either for a +1 to attack rolls and damage, and allows you to ignore the loading property to allow the Extra Attack feature to work.

[MThurston]

That'd be a houserule then. battlesmith by RAW isn't going to have a feature to allow two castings of Firebolt.
At 5th levels, a Firebolt will deal a single attack roll with 2d10 fire damage. Sounds like you are thinking of Eldritch Blast which has a single cast of two attack rolls, each dealing 1d10 force damage.
In this case, the Attack Action with the Extra Attack feature will generally be the stronger choice for a Battle Smith, with a longbow is two attack rolls each dealing 1d8+modifier.
It's worth noting if you are ok with firearms, Artificers have proficiency with those, so you can have a musket for 1d12+mod weapon damage per attack, or even taking a heavy crossbow for 1d10+mod if there are no firearms in the setting. Add the Repeating Shot infusion to either for a +1 to attack rolls and damage, and allows you to ignore the loading property to allow the Extra Attack feature to work.

I thought is was two firebolts at 1d10 each.

So the Artillery Cannon doesn't get a bonus to hit or does it use yours?

[jaappleton]

So the cannon that the artillery can make hits on a +0 because it has no stats?

Am I missing something?

Doesn't seem as good as Battle Smith.

You use your spell attack modifier and save DC for the turrets.

[MThurston]

You use your spell attack modifier and save DC for the turrets.

Thank you. I literally just read it. I take it that if you take the focus bonus you get that as well?


So the difference is he can have a robot fire and he can do his thing but without an extra attack as the Artillery guy.

Or

He can have a melee robot while he shoots two heavy bolts into his enemies. (Using int instead of Dex)

[Zhorn]

I thought is was two firebolts at 1d10 each.

Sounds like someone's given you some houserules. Casting a spell doesn't use the Attack Action, so you don't get more when you get more attacks. Firebolts in the PHB will give you all the details on how much damage it deals at what levels, but unless you are a sorcerer using Twinned Metamagic, it's always going to be a single bolt with one attack roll.

So the Artillery Cannon doesn't get a bonus to hit or does it use yours?

The Eldritch Cannon from the Artillerist subclass will use your spell attack modifier for the Force Ballista, and will use your Spell DC for the Flamethrower.
The Arcane Firearm (normally a wand/staff) which would be used for Firebolt will add 1d8 extra damage to the spell, so at 5th level that'll be 2d10+1d8 fire damage.

So yeah:
Battlesmith; Action = Attack Action for two weapon attacks, Bonus Action = Steel Defender
Artillerist; Action = Casting a Spell with the Arcane Firearm, Bonus Action = Eldritch Cannon

*edit: slow site loading = slow responses

[jaappleton]

*edit: slow site loading = slow responses

Nothing to be upset about, you're taking your time to help out!

[MThurston]

Sounds like someone's given you some houserules. Casting a spell doesn't use the Attack Action, so you don't get more when you get more attacks. Firebolts in the PHB will give you all the details on how much damage it deals at what levels, but unless you are a sorcerer using Twinned Metamagic, it's always going to be a single bolt with one attack roll.

The Eldritch Cannon from the Artillerist subclass will use your spell attack modifier for the Force Ballista, and will use your Spell DC for the Flamethrower.
The Arcane Firearm (normally a wand/staff) which would be used for Firebolt will add 1d8 extra damage to the spell, so at 5th level that'll be 2d10+1d8 fire damage.

So yeah:
Battlesmith; Action = Attack Action for two weapon attacks, Bonus Action = Steel Defender
Artillerist; Action = Casting a Spell with the Arcane Firearm, Bonus Action = Eldritch Cannon

*edit: slow site loading = slow responses

Thanks

2d10+ 1d8 could be very nasty.

The arcane firearm is basically making a rod , wand or staff a super focus. It doesn't make it into a pistol or rifle? It also doesn't use any spell slots using it as this focus?

[Yakk]

An 18 intelligence level 5 Battlesmith with a repeating hand crossbow does 2 attacks at +8 to hit for 1d6+5 damage each (17 average). And can use a shield.

Or the same with a repeating heavy crossbow for 1d10+5 (21 average), but cannot use a shield.

If the Battlesmith used firebolt with an enhanced arcane focus, they would make 1 attack at +8 to hit for 2d10 damage (11 average). This is a bad plan; battlesmiths should use weapons.

As a bonus action, you can get your steel defender to attack as well; +5 to hit for 1d8+3(average 7.5) damage.

If you permit firearms with the repeating infusion, battlesmiths can get silly.

---

An Artillerist artificer only gets 1 (weapon) attack, and cannot use intelligence to make it.

An 18 intelligence artillerist with an enhanced arcane focus with the arcane firearm feature does a +8 to hit for 2d10+1d8 (15.5 average) and can use a shield.

As a bonus action their turrent can fire at +7 to hit for 2d8(average 9) damage.

[Pex]

There's Shield and Absorb Elements for defense. Faerie Fire is very useful to help the party. Getting advantage on attacks is a big deal. Blur is another defense spell he can use.

Fire Bolt is fine for a range attack spell, but sometimes you want more oomph and/or the opponent is resistant/immune to fire. A neat trick is to have the infusion to make an Alchemy Jug. That gives two free flasks of acid per day. Make some flasks. Cast the spell Catapult using the flask as the object hurled. For a first level spell you are doing 3d8 bludgeoning + 2d6 acid damage.

Rituals can be used for tactics and fun. Alarm is always helpful when camping for the long rest. Think of the fun he can have with Skywrite. If he's seen the movie The Wizard of Oz, remind him when the Wicked Witch of the West wrote Surrender Dorothy in black smoke in the sky over Emerald City.

[MThurston]

He decided to go the artillery route.

[Brawnspear]

Also, if your son just wants a little droid companion, there's always the Homunculus infusion at level 6, its rules are similar to the steel defender, and I suppose you could flavor the arcane cannon as the little guy pulling out the big gun. Or having a winged flamethrower! The homunculus Hit points and defenses are much lower than the defender though, so relying on it as a battle pet may be a bad idea.

The way I see it, the turret can be tiny and move 15 feet and can climb, so if the tiny homunculus is carrying it, we could say that it only moves 15 feet, but the turret is pretty firmly latched and possibly take damage before the homunculus if you're running the show.

[kaervaak]

Artillerist sounds like a great fit for him!

One of the wonderful things about artificers is how flexible they are in terms of flavor. You can have their weapons, infusions, spells, and abilities be pretty much anything you want.

Does he want a magical gun that shoots bolts of flame? Arcane firearm with the firebolt cantrip

Does he want to have a gauntlet that shocks people when he punches them? That's how he uses the shocking grasp cantrip

His droid can look like whatever he wants it to and he can even change its appearance, size, and abilities whenever he remakes it.

When he casts spells, he can flavor it as gadgets, magic, runes, playing cards, painting, knitting, whatever he wants.

[stoutstien]

An 18 intelligence level 5 Battlesmith with a repeating hand crossbow does 2 attacks at +8 to hit for 1d6+5 damage each (17 average). And can use a shield.

Or the same with a repeating heavy crossbow for 1d10+5 (21 average), but cannot use a shield.

If the Battlesmith used firebolt with an enhanced arcane focus, they would make 1 attack at +8 to hit for 2d10 damage (11 average). This is a bad plan; battlesmiths should use weapons.

As a bonus action, you can get your steel defender to attack as well; +5 to hit for 1d8+3(average 7.5) damage.

If you permit firearms with the repeating infusion, battlesmiths can get silly.

---

An Artillerist artificer only gets 1 (weapon) attack, and cannot use intelligence to make it.

An 18 intelligence artillerist with an enhanced arcane focus with the arcane firearm feature does a +8 to hit for 2d10+1d8 (15.5 average) and can use a shield.

As a bonus action their turrent can fire at +7 to hit for 2d8(average 9) damage.

does the cannon not get the +1 hit from the EAF? i figured it would because the artificer is technically making the spell attack its just originating from the cannon.

[Yakk]

Actually I think you are right; EAF doesn't say you have to use the focus at all, just make a spell attack roll.

[pantastic]

Artillerist sounds like a great fit for him!

One of the wonderful things about artificers is how flexible they are in terms of flavor. You can have their weapons, infusions, spells, and abilities be pretty much anything you want.

Does he want a magical gun that shoots bolts of flame? Arcane firearm with the firebolt cantrip

Does he want to have a gauntlet that shocks people when he punches them? That's how he uses the shocking grasp cantrip

His droid can look like whatever he wants it to and he can even change its appearance, size, and abilities whenever he remakes it.

When he casts spells, he can flavor it as gadgets, magic, runes, playing cards, painting, knitting, whatever he wants.

+1 on this.

I'm playing a level 4 Artificer (Battle Smith) who is a Construct, so _I_ am the droid! A combat medic droid, to be specific.

Things I have flavored in game:
- casting "Identify Object" with a ritual is performing a 'scan'
- casting "Burning Hands" is my built in flame-thrower
- casting "Cure Wounds" is me injecting my companions with pharmaceuticals
- my Artificer Infusion's are me tinkering with objects to make them more useful
- etc, ect

Artificer is a lot of fun, if you want to let your imagination run wild.

[pantastic]

As an Artificer, you can have a 'droid' sidekick with any Artificer, but Artillerist and Battle Smith but get a built-in companion from level 3 on.

I think the big question is: do you want the Eldritch Cannon, or do you want a weapon to be your main attack?

If you want the Eldritch Cannon (which is a great option, and means you will always have a use for your Bonus Action), then take Artillerist. Sadly, an Artificer (of any subclass) will never have enough spell slots to be a serious spell-slinger. Your spells simply are fun add-ons, unless you want a cantrip to be your go-to action in battle. If that's the case, then choose Artillerist and just blast away with cantrip (beefed up by the Artillerist's Arcane Firearm) and the Eldritch Cannon.

If you want to use a weapon as your go-to action in battle (polearm, bow, firearm, etc), choose Battle Smith. Battle Smith gets to use INT for weapon attack and damage rolls, and gets an extra weapon attack at level 5. Plus, Battle Smith gets the Steel Defender, which can be a tremendous help in combat.

[stoutstien]

Actually I think you are right; EAF doesn't say you have to use the focus at all, just make a spell attack roll.

the editing and langue style is very different in ERFLW so who knows the intention. slight boost overall but nothing out of the curve.

[stoutstien]

Sadly, an Artificer (of any subclass) will never have enough spell slots to be a serious spell-slinger. Your spells simply are fun add-ons, unless you want a cantrip to be your go-to action in battle.

this is the case for all half caster but the artificer getting SSI at 11 is a huge boost is spells per day. the artillist is strangely one of the best repeating moderate AoE options in the game. in a campaign with lots of mooks and minions its a blast tossing out a spell, activating your flamethrower, and then have a familiar strafing the field with the SSI with shatter.

[lukethecat2003]

unless you houserule, the 'cast a spell' action and 'attack' action are not the same so that might be why the firebolt is looking better than weapon attacks. mending can be ok for battle smith but isn't mandatory thanks to repair and how cheap it is to just make a new steel defender.

if eldritch knight had this, that'd be OP as hell at lvl 20.