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Thread: Smoking Dragon?

  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

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    Jul 2018

    Default Smoking Dragon?

    I have a dragon in an upcoming encounter that has an eversmoking bottle as part of its treasure. I was considering having the dragon wear the bottle, unstoppered, as a charm on a light chain around it's neck. Basically, the idea is a fully obscured dragon that relies on its blindsight to gain advantage over foes. So, how does this work?

    Does the thick smoke cause any breathing difficulties at all? There's nothing in the description that says it's anything but a visual effect, but breathing smoke doesn't seem like to healthy of a thing to do, not even for a dragon.

    When the dragon is still, the smoke can keep growing, but if the dragon moves--especially if moving quickly to out beyond the radius of the cloud--it should briefly emerge before the cloud billows back out and surrounds it again. So the question is, when does the cloud reset it's radius after the dragon emerges? Perhaps at the start or end of the dragon's turn? The start of the turn would be best, I think, as it leaves a brief moment of vulnerability if the dragon gets too hasty. Opinions?

    Also, this is a black dragon that will no doubt be trying to use the watery terrain to its advantage. I'm pretty sure that most magical effects in 5e don't care much about being underwater, so would the smoke likewise extend under the water when the dragon goes under? Does it do something like this:

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    DwarfFighterGuy

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    Default Re: Smoking Dragon?

    So I don't really know this item but I would assume that if the magic items doesn't say anything about breathing issues it likely won't cause them. You as a DM could say otherwise I suppose but I'd rule that there is no breathing issues.

    I'd like to comment more but I need to look up the item first

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Jul 2016

    Default Re: Smoking Dragon?

    Copying the item description for ease:

    Smoke leaks from the lead-stoppered mouth of this brass bottle, which weighs 1 pound. When you use an action to remove the stopper, a cloud of thick smoke pours out in a 60-foot radius from the bottle. The cloud's area is heavily obscured. Each minute the bottle remains open and within the cloud, the radius increases by 10 feet until it reaches its maximum radius of 120 feet.

    The cloud persists as long as the bottle is open. Closing the bottle requires you to speak its command word as an action. Once the bottle is closed, the cloud disperses after 10 minutes. A moderate wind (11 to 20 miles per hour) can also disperse the smoke after 1 minute, and a strong wind (21 or more miles per hour) can do so after 1 round.
    Based on this, I would say that either at the end of the Dragon's turn, or at the beginning of the next one that the 60' radius would be filled again. RAW, it seems like the cloud would just move with the creature wearing it, despite their speed, but that seems illogical. So as a DM, I say that based on the creature's speed, they are either obscured by the cloud at the end of their turn or on their next turn. Either that, or I'd say that the cloud moves with the creature if they move no more than half their speed, and can't take the Dash action.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Smoking Dragon?

    Short-term use, it doesn't cause breathing difficulties for anyone.

    Long-term, for most creatures, I'd assign some sort of penalty. But a dragon isn't most creatures. Dragons have a tendency to ignore the rules that bind mere mortals, and a dragon being perpetually shrouded in smoke is perfectly thematic.

    If the dragon does emerge from the cloud (which shouldn't need to be very often, at a radius of 120 feet), I would rule that it would be re-shrouded at the end of the dragon's turn, after its action, because that's what would happen if it used its action to unstopper it.
    Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
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  5. - Top - End - #5
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Smoking Dragon?

    The imagery of a black dragon shrouded in smoke underwater is straight up bad ass and I really hope this encounter is one that your players remember forever.

    I would appreciate it if after the encounter you shared what happened in this thread or send it to me in a message.

    Great idea!

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Smoking Dragon?

    Make it a lemon scented air freshener bottle from an ancient era. Being of caustic nature the dragon appreciates the taste which the scent implies.
    If all rules are suggestions what happens when I pass the save?

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Smoking Dragon?

    I'd think that if the Dragon flies or uses it's wing attack the smoke cloud would dissipate for a turn ...

    I'd (mechanically) move the 60' radius cloud so that it is centered on the dragon at the time of it's choosing ON IT'S TURN and stays there until it is relocated it on it's next turn - this way the dragon can move out of it's cloud or into it, and so can the PCs, but where the cloud isn't anymore becomes clear.

    This could be very nasty for the party ...

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Banned
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Smoking Dragon?

    If you wanted to be a little sneaky, the dragon could have gone a step further and actually swallowed the bottle. Hence, it's now constantly venting the smoke from its mouth.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    C-Dude's Avatar

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    Default Re: Smoking Dragon?

    Quote Originally Posted by da newt View Post
    I'd think that if the Dragon flies or uses it's wing attack the smoke cloud would dissipate for a turn ...
    Seconded with the addition of the breath attack. The breath weapon should be emitting with enough speed to displace the smoke anyway.
    Thought I'd try drawing in Rich's style with a lizardfolk. He looks... concerned. Maybe 'cause he lost the top of his spear!

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: Smoking Dragon?

    Quote Originally Posted by HappyDaze View Post
    I have a dragon in an upcoming encounter that has an eversmoking bottle as part of its treasure. I was considering having the dragon wear the bottle, unstoppered, as a charm on a light chain around it's neck. Basically, the idea is a fully obscured dragon that relies on its blindsight to gain advantage over foes. So, how does this work?

    Does the thick smoke cause any breathing difficulties at all? There's nothing in the description that says it's anything but a visual effect, but breathing smoke doesn't seem like to healthy of a thing to do, not even for a dragon.

    When the dragon is still, the smoke can keep growing, but if the dragon moves--especially if moving quickly to out beyond the radius of the cloud--it should briefly emerge before the cloud billows back out and surrounds it again. So the question is, when does the cloud reset it's radius after the dragon emerges? Perhaps at the start or end of the dragon's turn? The start of the turn would be best, I think, as it leaves a brief moment of vulnerability if the dragon gets too hasty. Opinions?

    Also, this is a black dragon that will no doubt be trying to use the watery terrain to its advantage. I'm pretty sure that most magical effects in 5e don't care much about being underwater, so would the smoke likewise extend under the water when the dragon goes under? Does it do something like this:
    Can't help much on this one right now but I'm imagining this as the battle music (or as the basis for a song a bard would write about the PCs fighting this dragon):


  11. - Top - End - #11
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Smoking Dragon?

    Quote Originally Posted by intregus View Post
    The imagery of a black dragon shrouded in smoke underwater is straight up bad ass and I really hope this encounter is one that your players remember forever.

    I would appreciate it if after the encounter you shared what happened in this thread or send it to me in a message.

    Great idea!
    It's actually going to be a Young Black Shadow Dragon. The party drove off a Young Black Dragon and an allied Shadow Demon in separate encounters. Now the two have joined together (literally) to take their revenge.

    The PC group is a fairly strong 5th level party, and survivors of this encounter will hit 6th level. The PCs will also have several allied lizardfolk to aid them, but that's a risk when they discover the dragon's breath can make Shadows out of dying lizardfolk.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Orc in the Playground
     
    PirateGuy

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    Default Re: Smoking Dragon?

    I'm not actually sure a Young Dragon would be able to leverage it as well as one might think. Their blindslight is only out to 30', so ranged attacks won't be at disadvantage beyond that. That's also a problem with using his breath weapon in that he'll have to spend some movement dithering around trying to figure out the best place to use it(and might not even find it considering their breath moves on a line and the party might be spread out).

    Personally, I'd save this for when they're strong enough to take on an adult dragon that won't have the 30' issue.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: Smoking Dragon?

    I would go for the start of your next turn. Otherwise the dragon will be immersed in smoke all the time. Now it will have to choose between staying in roughly the same place (obscured by smoke), or use its movement but pay the price of being out of the smoke for 1 round.

    It would also be a very nice way to trick the party into standing in the smoke and end up with penalties. A nice strategy, giving your opponents a penalty to attacking when you find yourself in a vulnerable position outside the cloud.
    Just remember... if the world didn't suck, we'd all fall off.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Smoking Dragon?

    How quickly should the smoke disperse once the bottle is removed from it? If it lasts 1 minute or more after the bottle is removed, then huge areas of smoke might result very quickly using combat movement rates. However, from the text, it looks like it never goes away until the bottle is stoppered, although wind can disperse it.
    Last edited by HappyDaze; 2020-08-08 at 07:56 AM.

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