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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    Default Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

    The Starfleet personnel on DS9 treats each other and everyone else with respect. They're not perfect; there is Sisko's initial disdain towards Jake making friends with Nog, who he thinks is a hopelessly bad influence, and even that turns into an uplifting story when he realizes Jake is teaching Nog how to read and write, and eventually
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    sponsors Nog's application to Starfleet Academy.


    Even Quark and Odo, who profess to hate each other's guts, clearly appreciate each other as worthy adversaries. Everyone frequents Quark's bar. It's a place where Starfleet personnel mingle with Bajorans and everyone else. In some episodes he acts as an antagonist, but if you look at the whole picture he's just as valuable a member of the crew as everyone else.

    The Federation at its best is inclusive; it fosters cooperation, understanding, open-mindedness. DS9 is full of examples of that. It also has
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    Section 31, Red Squad and other actors working to subvert or betray Federation values from within
    , which was maybe a misstep.
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  2. - Top - End - #92
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    Default Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobb View Post
    Yeah, I'll sign up for the "what the heck is pelee on about" t-shirt.

    Especially considering in response to "The essence of a Star Trek crew is that they support each other" he brought up "lolz DS9 Quark."

    Quark's not a part of a Star Trek crew. Plus he and Odo basically become friends by the end of the show despite one being a cop and the other a crook.
    A.) Peelee.
    2.), I also brought up several other examples, including the OGs Mccoy and Spock.
    iii.) I' m not so sure about the wisdom of characterising anyone's arguments as "lolz [stuff]".
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  3. - Top - End - #93
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    Default Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

    Quote Originally Posted by AdmiralCheez View Post
    Meanwhile, with Lower Decks, you've got one of the main characters going out of her way to make the other's life miserable largely for her own amusement. He asks her to stop, and she continues. No disciplinary action is taken, and she even somehow is rewarded for it by being proven right, and not getting turned in to the Captain. That's just so contradictory to the rest of what we've seen of the Federation that it's off-putting.
    When I think of a Starfleet officer repeatedly going out of their way to harangue and make another crewmember's life miserable through repeated abuse for their own amusement, Mariner will have to get in line behind McCoy and Pulaski. I don't recall Mariner repeatedly getting Boimler's name wrong then acting *amused* that the person in question might request the dignity of --Getting Their Name Right---.

    When told that one of Picard's commissioned bridge officers is told by Starfleet Command they they are effectively a slave and always have been and he will immediately report to Starfleet for whatever scientific abuses we can think of, was his reaction "If any of you jackboots try it you'll be escorted off through the Photon Torpedo tubes" or was it "This disturbs me, but I at least insist on a trial before his vivisection" (Seriously, great episode and all, but the fact that the premise happened *at all* paints a pretty dark picture of Starfleet Command). And several seasons later, Picard is reluctant to make Data an acting captain because he's concerned (rightly as it turns out) that the predjudices of the ship's crew will get in the way.

    We could go on from the TOS implication that Star Fleet doesn't accept women as captains, a bridge officer joining a fringe terrorist organisation, Starfleet captains setting themselves up as despots on primitive worlds. And that's just the first two shows. We haven't even gotten into Deep Space Nine or any of the stuff Janeway got up to.

    The Federation ideals are noble, and it's something I love about Star Trek in all its incarnations. It's a wonderful pinnacle to strive to. But even in Trek, humanity's problems aren't solved yet and they probably never will be. Starfleet officers are shown as prejudiced, abusive, violent, and just downright asses to each other at times. What we've seen so far on Lower Decks is pretty mild in comparison to the worst we've seen on other shows. And that's the top officers on the pride of the Starfleet. I don't expect Lower Deck ensigns to never goof off or poke fun at each other

    And after all that, I'll say again, that you're reading the opening teaser of the first episode and projecting it across Mariner's entire character. She doesn't spend the entire episode or the series so far picking on Boimler for fun or to harass him. On the other hand, she is actively shown so far to be interested in helping him progress in his career. She doesn't seem to hate Starfleet or its mission, or disrespect Boimler's desire to move up in rank, more that she's disillusioned with the officers she's served with.


    "Let me tell you something about Hew-mons, nephew. They're a wonderful, friendly people – as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working. But take away their creature comforts… deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers… put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time… and those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people will become as nasty and violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon. You don't believe me? Look at those faces, look at their eyes…"

  4. - Top - End - #94
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    Default Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

    Do you know what the trouble is?

    The trouble is Earth. On Earth there is no poverty, no crime, no war. You look out of the window of Starfleet Headquarters and you see paradise. Well it's easy to be a saint in paradise.


    The Federation regularly fails to live up to its ideals, even in TNG, the most idealistic of the Star Trek series, the Federation regularly fails its people. Tasha Yar came from a failed Federation colony that had fallen into such deep decline she grew up learning how to dodge roving rape gangs. The Enterprise was called upon to perform ethnic cleansing of people on worlds the Federation ceded under treaty to a hostile fascist power (the Cardassians).

    Earth has paradise, Earth embodies what the Federation believes itself to be, but the Federation isn't just Earth and everywhere else isn't doing nearly as well. Quite a lot of the time, the upper echelons of Starfleet don't quite realise that.

    As for the behaviour of ensigns out of the watchful eyes of responsible adults, go and watch Valiant again. Starfleet Academy's best and brightest turn out to be absolutely terrible at running a ship for reasons of ego and personal immaturity.

  5. - Top - End - #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    That's more or less fair. Two points I'd like to make though :

    First, DS9 tried something very different. It worked out wonderfully, and I'm glad they risked it, but "risk" is an operative word here. Lower Decks seems to be working out poorly, but I'm glad they risked it.
    Oh, I'm not denying that DS9's premise made for interesting stories (Sisko's unenviable position of having to serve at least two masters was unique in the annals of Star Trek) - but that's honestly besides the point I was making. My point was that DS9 had a very reasonable premise for its own ship's discord and the often open antagonism that resulted between its main cast members beyond what we'd normally see on a Federation vessel. The Cerritos' only real excuse is to enable Mariner's Bugs Bunny antics - which feel out of place in a show that is also trying to insert as much Trek seriousness as it is too.

    Or to sum it up more succinctly - Lower Decks feels too straight-laced to be a full-on parody while being too unfunny to be a good comedy - at least, to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Second, I think most people gloss over just how overtly racist McCoy was towards Spock in TOS. I've heard a lot of "but it was friendly banter" that I never quite buy, since no small part of it was effectively kicking Spock while he was down (or wrong, rather), and that when marooned on an ice world with only a single other person, and Spock actually let his emotions out, even he was fed up with McCoy's ****. So open, rampant antagonism towards another crewmember is not a new thing that LD is bringing to the ST universe (and I'm even ignoring TNG's Pulaski-treats-Data-like-an-object behavior, mostly because I didn't like Pulaski much). Open, rampant antagonism towards all other crewmembers is, but thays less killing the sacred cow than it is going from a burger a week to steak every day. It's just that the steak is bland and tough, and wreaking havoc on the guts.
    I'll be first to admit I'm not the biggest TOS buff, but I'd say the big difference here is that McCoy is generally portrayed as being in the wrong when he antagonizes like that. Mariner has not only evaded any kind of negative opinion about her thus far, the show seems to be going out of its way to portray her as just and right for her attitude towards Boimler, which vacillates between merely patronizing/disdainful and actively malicious depending on the bit of plot that needs to happen next.

    Quote Originally Posted by AdmiralCheez View Post
    On the DS9 comparison, I think there's a big difference between being antagonistic because you have opposing goals and just being antagonistic for a laugh. In DS9, the characters don't all work together as part of the same "team." Quark wants to make a profit, the Federation crew want to uphold the Federation ideals, and still others just want to keep the peace. They don't need to be a cohesive crew, because they're not. They all just happen to be big players on the same space station. It feels natural that there is tension between them, and arguments are to be expected.

    Meanwhile, with Lower Decks, you've got one of the main characters going out of her way to make the other's life miserable largely for her own amusement. He asks her to stop, and she continues. No disciplinary action is taken, and she even somehow is rewarded for it by being proven right, and not getting turned in to the Captain. That's just so contradictory to the rest of what we've seen of the Federation that it's off-putting.
    Yeah, that.

    Which, I get it, it's (ostensibly) a comedy show, disciplining Mariner for her flagrant rule-breaking (and/or straight up kicking Boimler off the ship to the desk job he would probably be much happier in anyway) isn't the point - but that's also a big part of why it feels out of place in Star Trek canon to a lot of people, myself included.
    Last edited by Psyren; 2020-08-20 at 05:35 PM.
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    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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  6. - Top - End - #96
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    Default Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Oh, I'm not denying that DS9's premise made for interesting stories (Sisko's unenviable position of having to serve at least two masters was unique in the annals of Star Trek) - but that's honestly besides the point I was making. My point was that DS9 had a very reasonable premise for its own ship's discord and the often open antagonism that resulted between its main cast members beyond what we'd normally see on a Federation vessel. The Cerritos' only real excuse is to enable Mariner's Bugs Bunny antics - which feel out of place in a show that is also trying to insert as much Trek seriousness as it is too.
    Imean, Voyager had half the crew be secessionists from the Federation who attempted mutiny on at least one occasion and had massive behavioral problems. They got resolved, but given that we're all of two episodes into LD and it's getting blasted for that, I hardly think those complaints are terribly fair.

    I do agree with you on the failings of parody and comedy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    I'll be first to admit I'm not the biggest TOS buff, but I'd say the big difference here is that McCoy is generally portrayed as being in the wrong when he antagonizes like that. Mariner has not only evaded any kind of negative opinion about her thus far, the show seems to be going out of its way to portray her as just and right for her attitude towards Boimler, which vacillates between merely patronizing/disdainful and actively malicious depending on the bit of plot that needs to happen next.
    That wasn't a great example you linked, since Bones was proven correct in, like, the very next scene. And, more to the point, he was generally portrayed as being correct, to the point that many of his jabs closing out the episode and pointedly noting that the pure human ways were how they solved the plot of the week (Spock's rejoinders tended to be more for comedic effect, even if they did have points).

    ETA: I do feel a bit bad here as I have you at a definite disadvantage; TOS is my favorite. Hell, just now I decided to put it on as background noise while I do other stuff, because why not?
    Last edited by Peelee; 2020-08-20 at 05:49 PM.
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  7. - Top - End - #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    I'll be first to admit I'm not the biggest TOS buff, but I'd say the big difference here is that McCoy is generally portrayed as being in the wrong when he antagonizes like that. Mariner has not only evaded any kind of negative opinion about her thus far, the show seems to be going out of its way to portray her as just and right for her attitude towards Boimler, which vacillates between merely patronizing/disdainful and actively malicious depending on the bit of plot that needs to happen next.
    1. It's actually more common for Kirk (and sometimes others) to join in on mocking Spock. I'm sure the intention is for it to be good natured ribbing, but rewatching the show years later is really cringe inducing and it's hard to see it as anything other than racist, especially given that in TOS, non-human crew members are in an extreme minority.

    2. Per the episodes aired so far, Mariner used to be an officer and has been busted down to ensign at least once (I get the implication from the show that it's happened more than once), and has also been implied to have been court-martialed and spent a good amount of time in the brig. The implication is that they can't pin enough on her to discharge her from the Starfleet, so they are doing what other captains on TNG have been shown to do and move a "problem" officer from one posting to another. I certainly wouldn't say she's evaded negative opinion or that the show portrays her in the right.

  8. - Top - End - #98
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    Default Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

    Quote Originally Posted by Dire_Flumph View Post
    1. It's actually more common for Kirk (and sometimes others) to join in on mocking Spock. I'm sure the intention is for it to be good natured ribbing, but rewatching the show years later is really cringe inducing and it's hard to see it as anything other than racist, especially given that in TOS, non-human crew members are in an extreme minority.

    2. Per the episodes aired so far, Mariner used to be an officer and has been busted down to ensign at least once (I get the implication from the show that it's happened more than once), and has also been implied to have been court-martialed and spent a good amount of time in the brig. The implication is that they can't pin enough on her to discharge her from the Starfleet, so they are doing what other captains on TNG have been shown to do and move a "problem" officer from one posting to another. I certainly wouldn't say she's evaded negative opinion or that the show portrays her in the right.
    The implication I've gotten so far is that she hasn't been drummed out of Starfleet solely because of her parentage, though why she joined to begin with or hasn't quit yet is beyond me.
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  9. - Top - End - #99
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    Default Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    The implication I've gotten so far is that she hasn't been drummed out of Starfleet solely because of her parentage, though why she joined to begin with or hasn't quit yet is beyond me.
    Considering her Mom was the one trying to bust her, that wasn't the implication I got. And Mariner does seem to legitimately believe in Starfleet's mission. I don't think it's antithetical to love the organization you're in while been fed up with the people running it.

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    Default Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

    Quote Originally Posted by Dire_Flumph View Post
    Considering her Mom was the one trying to bust her, that wasn't the implication I got. And Mariner does seem to legitimately believe in Starfleet's mission. I don't think it's antithetical to love the organization you're in while been fed up with the people running it.
    Wasn't the mom trying to pass her off to the dad, who ducked out of it? (bytheway, that scene, especially the dad signing off, encapsulates the kind of humor I hate and find particularly unfunny)
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  11. - Top - End - #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Wasn't the mom trying to pass her off to the dad, who ducked out of it?
    Yes, that's how I remember it. I suppose I should clarify it didn't give me the impression that they would be trying particularly hard to keep her in the fleet if it came down to a discharge.

    Edit: Adding to that, Mariner's copious knowledge of Starfleet regulations seems to be pretty good armor against knowing exactly what lines not to push too far.
    Last edited by Dire_Flumph; 2020-08-20 at 06:15 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #102
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    Default Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

    I'll admit that my opinion is entirely based on one episode. I don't have the subscription to watch the rest, so that's all I have to work with. That's what they chose to entice me to buy into the rest of the series, so that's what I formed my opinion on. Is it fair? Absolutely not. Do other Star Trek series also have crew members antagonise each other? Yes, I'll admit that.

    With TOS though, it was made 50-some years ago; it was a different era. The casual ribbing between coworkers and mild racism was a product of its time. Pulaski and the crew's/Starfleet's prejudice in TNG was used for drama, and they usually learned something by the end of the episode. I don't recall it ever being used for comedy the way the first episode of Lower Decks used it.

    Now, I'm not saying that Lower Decks shouldn't have the characters mess with each other once in a while. It can be done well, and that kind of humor would fit better in a comedy series anyway. My problem is that they overdid it in the first episode, and that's what turned me off. To me, it didn't feel like coworkers who have been working together for years just messing with each other in good fun, like the kind of thing we got in TOS. It felt like she was a dangerous, reckless person who didn't respect her team and knew she could get away with it because she wouldn't face any consequences. Or, if not that, she just didn't care. That's a bully, not a friend, and it's not the kind of humor I enjoy.

    Maybe she gets better in later episodes. Maybe her character arc is about learning to respect the people she's around and toning down her reckless behavior. I hope so! That would be a great way to get me to watch more. Unfortunately, they released that one episode for free as a way to draw me in and subscribe to see how the rest of the series plays out. I didn't like their brand of humor, and thus didn't see the potential from that one episode, so it's not worth it to me to buy the subscription.

  13. - Top - End - #103
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    Default Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    The implication I've gotten so far is that she hasn't been drummed out of Starfleet solely because of her parentage, though why she joined to begin with or hasn't quit yet is beyond me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dire_Flumph View Post
    Considering her Mom was the one trying to bust her, that wasn't the implication I got. And Mariner does seem to legitimately believe in Starfleet's mission. I don't think it's antithetical to love the organization you're in while been fed up with the people running it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Wasn't the mom trying to pass her off to the dad, who ducked out of it? (bytheway, that scene, especially the dad signing off, encapsulates the kind of humor I hate and find particularly unfunny)
    The impression I got was Admiral Daddy has been pulling strings to keep Mariner in Starfleet and had her posted on the Cerritos so Captain Mommy could keep an eye on her. I can't imagine Starfleet placing someone on a ship commanded by their parent without some Admiral intervening. Captain Mommy, however, wants her off the ship and possibly out of Starfleet.

  14. - Top - End - #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    Do you know what the trouble is?

    The trouble is Earth. On Earth there is no poverty, no crime, no war. You look out of the window of Starfleet Headquarters and you see paradise. Well it's easy to be a saint in paradise.
    The person you are quoting is someone who gets under my skin for he is pure SLIME.

    1) He betrays people for it is the easy way out.
    2) Then he rubs his betrayal in their faces and says they deserved to be betrayed.
    3) What motivates him is not higher ideals, or he is fine with transgressing against others, betraying them, for the sake of a higher ideal. (I am sorry I betrayed you, but I am doing this for the greater good.)
    4) No what motivates him is some form of recognition, he needs to have praise, to create a self-image he feels he is lacking, he needs to have his points, he is very narcissistic in his own fashion.

    Since he has no foundation, no foundational anchor his critique is empty for it is merely self serving. The season 4 scene from Way of the Warrior with Quark and Garak talking about the federation, root beer, and seduction / salvation is a far better scene.
    Last edited by Ramza00; 2020-08-22 at 03:52 PM.
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  15. - Top - End - #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    The person you are quoting is someone who gets under my skin for he is pure SLIME.

    1) He betrays people for it is the easy way out.
    2) Then he rubs his betrayal in their faces and says they deserved to be betrayed.
    3) What motivates him is not higher ideals, or he is fine with transgressing against others, betraying them, for the sake of a higher ideal. (I am sorry I betrayed you, but I am doing this for the greater good.)
    4) No what motivates him is some form of recognition, he needs to have praise, to create a self-image he feels he is lacking, he needs to have his points, he is very narcissistic in his own fashion.

    Since he has no foundation, no foundational anchor his critique is empty for it is merely self serving. The season 4 scene from Way of the Warrior with Quark and Garak talking about the federation, root beer, and seduction / salvation is a far better scene.
    Man, that's probably the most out there take on Sisko ever...

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    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    Man, that's probably the most out there take on Sisko ever...
    I was referring to Michael Eddington not Sisko (I think you know that and you are saying it to get under my skin.)

    That said part of the reason why those episodes are good episodes for there is a little Eddington in Sisko. Eddington is the side of Sisko who gives into temptation and there is some flux / conflict between Eddington and Sisko. This side of Eddington in Sisko is not the entirety of Sisko's being, but part of his instincts is to be Eddington but he has other parts of him that compliment and contrast that part of Eddington inside of him.

    A little super-ego and ego to compliment the instinctual id.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    I was referring to Michael Eddington not Sisko (I think you know that and you are saying it to get under my skin.)
    Sure, but you still get to look silly now by having claimed I was quoting Eddington from an episode the season before he appeared....

    And you're wrong about Eddington as well, he was a full on true believer in the Maquis' cause and the fundamental injustice they've suffered at the hands of the Federation (why do you think he references Sisko as Javert). He wasn't in it for himself at all, and sacrifices himself for his cause.

    To quote Sisko again:

    "I called him a traitor once, but in a way, he was the most loyal man I ever met. He was a Maquis, right up to the bitter end."

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    The original quote about "It's easy to be a saint in paradise" was Sisko

    But to be fair, Eddington did later have a similar rant

    So I can believe they got mixed up.

    Edit: And now after dragging up Sisko clips I'm going to have to do a rewatch of the series because I keep forgetting how much I love Deep Space Nine. ARE YOU HAPPY NOW?!
    Last edited by Dire_Flumph; 2020-08-22 at 05:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    A.) Peelee.
    Peelee. Quite right. My mistake.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobb View Post
    Peelee. Quite right. My mistake.
    No worries. It's pretty common (also mispronunciations IRL, usually making me a Brazilian sports superstar). I don't often correct people, but I was making a list and it amused me to include that in the list.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dire_Flumph View Post
    The original quote about "It's easy to be a saint in paradise" was Sisko

    But to be fair, Eddington did later have a similar rant

    So I can believe they got mixed up.
    My bad, I was confusing things with that rant you gave of paradise from For the cause and blending it in with For the uniform (another Eddington and Sisko episode.)

    Edit: And now after dragging up Sisko clips I'm going to have to do a rewatch of the series because I keep forgetting how much I love Deep Space Nine. ARE YOU HAPPY NOW?!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Wozniak View Post
    The show looks bad but I do like the green girl. She's a cutie.
    That is my review as well.


    I do hope they have a chance to delve into her background more before the series is cancelled, we haven't seen much of the Orions since the ToS era and I am really curious about why there is one in Starfleet and how they are handling her mind controlling pheromones.
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    Default Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobb View Post
    Peelee. Quite right. My mistake.
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    No worries. It's pretty common (also mispronunciations IRL, usually making me a Brazilian sports superstar). I don't often correct people, but I was making a list and it amused me to include that in the list.
    [Don't forget about Wookiee]

    Regarding the show--

    Having not watched anything, but read about it, i have mixed interest. I feel like that they could do a decent type version, if they explored certain things (Orion women and if they can have more than just the sexuality) (Dysfunctional Starfleet officers -- striving for heroism)

    The thing is, when i heard about the Orville and how it was supposed to be the guy who was doing either Southpark or Simpsons, i was pretty unimpressed since i don't care for either show. Then there was maybe family guy was what he did? which i also don't care for either. So, possibly based on who does this and how that was, will definitely see how i feel about this.

    I like the parody of Galaxy quest, because it poked fun and had good actors and you knew that they were riffing TOS. Everything about the main character getting his shirt ripped, etc. So it was funny, because it was a comedy, and i think tim allen could be a good comedian

    For Voyager and Enterprise, i was less than impressed at times. Both dropped much of their premise with little thought to how it didn't make it good as a result. Voyager should not have turned into TNG 2.0 or TNG Redux but with less clarity. I am ashamed to say that i kept watching it disappoint deciding early on that i didn't care if everyone dies before they even make it home or even if they get home. i liked the parts where they were able to talk to home, and some other parts, but most of the show is/was a mess.

    Enterprise had its own problems of the time cold war and the stupid of the xindi. Instead of doing a buildup to war with the romulans. then there was trying to Trekify a pre-trek period. Why does Archer employ the prime directive? Shouldn't there have been episodes where the actions slowly lead to Starfleet developing the prime directive?

    I didn't watch discovery and haven't seen picard.

    as for this show, I think that it could have potential, but nothing about the characters stand out to me as really compelling beyond the Orion girl. i mean, nothing that i have read sounds like something that would make me want to watch more.

    It is currently just getting started though, and most of Trek took some time to get settled (Not quite with DS9, since that show had some pretty solid characters to start with; Odo (felt like they should have a made a spinoff of Odo and Garak playing detective buddies/buddy cop show), Garak (big favorite of mine), Quark (Move along Home is one of my favorite DS9 episodes, and i like several of the other ferengi episodes), Rom, Nog, Kira, Jadzia; who could have more interesting stories to tell)

    But if the show is going to take its cues from the Orville, then i think that i will be checking out.
    Last edited by russdm; 2020-08-24 at 10:29 PM.
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    Default Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

    Quote Originally Posted by russdm View Post
    The thing is, when i heard about the Orville and how it was supposed to be the guy who was doing either Southpark or Simpsons...
    Neither, actually. It's the guy who does Family Guy.

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    Default Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

    Quote Originally Posted by JadedDM View Post
    Neither, actually. It's the guy who does Family Guy.
    Yeah, i get confused because it has the same kind of general humor as south park and simpsons, all in my view. Childish and heavy based around potty humor/toilet humor, and sex jokes (Like the Freddy got fingered movie or the Jackass tv show from what i have heard, insane people doing stunts trying to funny). They feel the same in the kind of humor or what they feel to be funny. So, i don't always recall that they weren't made by the same person
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    Default Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

    Quote Originally Posted by russdm View Post
    [Don't forget about Wookiee]
    Misspellings of "Peelee" I rarely correct. Misspellings of "Wookiee" I always correct.

    Interestingly, I haven't really had to do it terribly much of late. I suspect your sig may have something to do with it. In which case, huzzahs for russdm!
    Quote Originally Posted by russdm View Post
    I like the parody of Galaxy quest, because it poked fun and had good actors and you knew that they were riffing TOS. Everything about the main character getting his shirt ripped, etc. So it was funny, because it was a comedy, and i think tim allen could be a good comedian
    Eh, Tim Allen was the weakest part of the movie. Frankly, the fact that he played an overbearing ******* was mostly what made me enjoy him in that (aside from it being a wry commentary on Shatner).
    Quote Originally Posted by russdm View Post
    Enterprise had its own problems of the time cold war and the stupid of the xindi. Instead of doing a buildup to war with the romulans. then there was trying to Trekify a pre-trek period. Why does Archer employ the prime directive? Shouldn't there have been episodes where the actions slowly lead to Starfleet developing the prime directive?
    As someone who really liked Enterprise, the Temporal Cold War was an enormous mistake as a storyline and those would be the worst episodes in the entire series, if not for the Xindi storyline which quite impressively managed to be even worse. Early seasons best episodes were the ones that highlighted that there was no Starfleet, there was no prime directive, and issues that arose thereof (also Phlox-heavy episodes, he was a fantastic character).

    They couldn't really do much to build up to the Romulans, though, since in TOS the Federation largely didn't even know what the Romulans looked liked, much less anything else about them (Vulcans aside).
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    Default Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    They couldn't really do much to build up to the Romulans, though, since in TOS the Federation largely didn't even know what the Romulans looked liked, much less anything else about them (Vulcans aside).
    Plus, the Earth-Romulan War didn't start until 2156, which would have been during Enterprise's 5th season, if there had been one. So if they had spent a lot of time building up the war...it would have had no payoff whatsoever, since the show was cancelled before then. Further, the Earth-Romulan War lasted 4 years...which means Enterprise's 6th, 7th, and 8th seasons would have had to be about it, as well. I imagine if the show had run on that long, people would have been pretty tired of it by that point. I mean, just imagine that--a four year long arc fighting an enemy that the crew never even sees. :/

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    Default Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    As someone who really liked Enterprise, the Temporal Cold War was an enormous mistake as a storyline and those would be the worst episodes in the entire series, if not for the Xindi storyline which quite impressively managed to be even worse. Early seasons best episodes were the ones that highlighted that there was no Starfleet, there was no prime directive, and issues that arose thereof (also Phlox-heavy episodes, he was a fantastic character).

    They couldn't really do much to build up to the Romulans, though, since in TOS the Federation largely didn't even know what the Romulans looked liked, much less anything else about them (Vulcans aside).
    I felt the same way. the starting parts not temporal cold war or xindi felt that there was potential and if there was series that really needed the TOS and TNG episodic style (with character changes some) was Enterprise. It was tailor made to use that style, given where it fell in the timeline and it would have actually worked if doing so. Unlike voyager.
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    Default Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

    Quote Originally Posted by JadedDM View Post
    Anyway, here's some rampant speculation:

    Spoiler
    Show
    Lower Decks is a comedy. And what were the funniest episodes of Star Trek? The Q episodes! How long do you reckon before they bring in John de Lancie to voice his old character?
    Called it!

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    Default Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

    I've been enjoying the show, but you need to have a pretty specific (but not uncommon) relationship with Star Trek as a franchise to enjoy it. You need to be pretty familiar with Star Trek, but not have much in the way of reverence for it, or be going in expecting to see a Star Trek show. It's a show for people who like Star Trek, but are not particularly looking to watch a Star Trek show right now, and don't mind seeing the setting used for basic comedy.

    Because, while it has the trappings of Star Trek (Taking place in the universe), it doesn't scratch the itch that a Star Trek show scratches. It's a comedy. It's primarily about people failing, either trying to do good things and failing, or trying to do the RIGHT thing and failing because they can't get over whatever pettiness blinds them. Seeing as Star Trek has always been, at it's heart, a story about Hypercompetent Space Explorers Doing The Right Thing Correctly, that's pretty antithetical.

    I wouldn't call it a Parody of Star Trek, because it's not really making fun of Star Trek beyond the recurring joke of some iconic star trek tropes (Captured by aliens and forced to do Trial By Combat) being considered relatively common situations for starfleet officers, and that's more winking than saying "Wow that is dumb and unrealistic". I would put it in the same category as Archer or The Venture Bros, a mildly absurdist action-adventure sitcom based around a specific Genre, but in this case the Genre happens to be "Star Trek".

    However, unlike those shows, Lower Decks has to add most of the comedic absurdity, rather than getting mileage from pointing out inherent absurdities. This is both because 1) Star Trek is deep enough into fantasy that you can't really call Star Trek's tropes absurd, and 2) Because the show doesn't stoop to the lazy answer of "Hey, Look at this STAR TREK THING, isn't that DUMB". The show takes as a starting point that this show and the mainline Star Trek shows like TNG exist in the same universe and follow the same general rules and logic. A thing that happens in TNG is a reasonable thing to happen in Lower Decks. A Good idea on TNG is still a good idea on Lower Decks.

    Which means that the pressure is on the characters, rather than the setting, to be comedy fodder, and inject comedy into what the show presents as perfectly reasonable, and occasionally deadly serious, situations. This doesn't help if you don't like absurdist character comedy, or if you dislike watching a bunch of clowns in starfleet uniforms making fools of themselves.

    This means that the characters have to do things like bicker over which rock to use when digging through the tunnel in the midst of a catastrophic shipboard crisis, which can make it quite hard to find them sympathetic. Especially if you're coming in from the perspective of "This is a Star Trek show".
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