Dune (2020): The Remakes Must Flow

[russdm]

The reason you feel any similarity to Star Wars is because Lucas borrowed heavily from DUNE and not the other way around. Herbert even threatened to sue over copyright infringement if Lucas didn't change his script. Watch this video for a deeper explanation on that and the multiple other ways Star Wars "borrowed" from Dune

One of the features on the Scifi Channels Dune DVD/etc, includes a section about the book from the perspective of herbert's friend, and he talks about arrakis, iraq, spice, oil, and that Frank had written an article about the desert (nonfiction type) for something that was about california in a part. And then there is some more bit.

You got your comparisons wrong. House Atreides is not the US and House Harkenon is not the USSR. The cold war doesn't even come up in a way. much less a homage. Frank may have wanted a "soviet" sounding name, but there is no evidence that he thought of it being cold war. i don't think that i have seen references to the cold war influence. Dune doesn't/didn't have it; star trek and roddenberry definitely with the TOS' Klingons and Romulans

A better element for the two houses would actually be Austria and Prussia in the Holy Roman Empire, or say maybe something two houses fighting for power.

While because it is easy to claim that Frank wrote it in the sixties, to give it that Cold War put on, you are wrong to do so. Unless Frank himself that he was going for a Cold War vibe, where does it come from? Frank used a considerable amount of different history elements, especially arabic and muslim.

I know about how Star Wars stole from Dune. It is why there are similar plot points, Luke loses his adoptive parents, he joins a rebellion, he goes on to defeat enemy forces. Paul goes through some similar moments. Plus, the book was out before Lucas was writing the script or during writing anyway.

As for:

1) the weirding way was not done right by Lynch because he found it either too hilarious or too narm to be doing what he called Kung Fu on the sand. His words. He made it be sonics, which thanks to a bit of sheer stupidity, is something that anyone could have developed as well. It comes across as just plain stupid.

2) Spice/Melange is not Oil. That is something you are wrong on. It's value of a resource so vital to the system is like how important oil is, but it is definitely not oil. From what i recall, you can't consume oil and start developing powers of seeing the future, or its ability to give extended life spans. Spice/Melange is basically a super drug, because all of what it can do. And Frank was reportedly interested in some pharma areas. like marijauna and other such. Mind altering substances. From what i have read elsewhere

3) Tolkien wrote Lord of the Rings during parts or after the first world war and some bits into the second. the books, hobbit, LotR, were published in the fifties. Some people called it an allegory for the earlier historical bits of time some. A point that annoyed Tolkien. Are you sure that you are not just playing an allegory point here?


Star Trek definitely has strong Cold War parts/influence, and Roddenberry/other-writers never went out of their way to hide that. so that whole thing can be said and recognized. I don't think that you can claim the same for Dune.

And this should be the First book, not the sequels of Dune Messiah and Children of Dune.


You can claim Cold War, but for Cold War Stories i would expect to see: two powers/factions that resemble either Eagleland or Commieland with many of the stereotypes and ones heavily exagrated by the feeling of each side as viewed by the writer; there would be areas/third parties that the two powers/factions are trying to influence and encourage them to their side; both powers/factions will be providing some kind of support to their allies/etc; neither power/faction would be taking direct action or having its members taking direct military action agaisnt the other side, they both employ events to maybe cause a proxy war, but they don't fight that war themselves, if they did, it is not a Cold War story.

[Clertar]

This looks really good.

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[Clertar]

And we get a first good glimpse.

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[Eldan]

Still all looks greyer than I'd like, but quite impressive.

[Dire_Flumph]

Well, it looks beautiful, that's for sure. This is one of the few that I'm hoping I get to see in a theater as unlikely as that seems for the near future.

[Spacewolf]

Seems like they the stilsuits arent going to have facemasks which is a shame. I know directors want to show off their leads but I think hiding most of their faces to the outside world would have helped make the Fremen be abit more alien.

[Dire_Flumph]

Seems like they the stilsuits arent going to have facemasks which is a shame. I know directors want to show off their leads but I think hiding most of their faces to the outside world would have helped make the Fremen be abit more alien.

They have masks covering the nose and mouths, they're just down in almost every shot. At 1:18 you can see, I think that's Stilgar, with the mask covering his lower face, and a headwrap covering the upper, leaving only the blue eyes visible. At 2:49 you can see Paul fully covered except for eyes as well.

Although Chani doesn't seem to even have that lower mask in a down position in any shot, so yeah, probably don't want to cover Zendaya up I guess, but I'd expect just about anytime someone has to talk the mask will come down. I'll always remember the first Sam Raimi Spider-Man as a good warning of how leaving your leads in masks can really kill dramatic dialogue scenes.

[J-H]

Supposedly Frank Herbert stole from an earlier book about a situation somewhere in the Caucausus or around the Caspian Sea. Tight on time, so I can't look it up.
Stillsuits should look very weathered... the screenshot of the one I assume is Stilgar makes their suits look too "new."

Casting choices (vaguely Arabic-to-Pashtun) for the Fremen generally looks good and fits. Jessica is supposed to be a redhead and I had a hard time picking her out in the trailer (had to watch it with sound off due to conference call).

Not a fan of "bald Harkonnen," but they have historically been hard to cast and have look good.

Shai-hulud is suitably epic.

[Caledonian]

Frank Herbert stole a lot from the film "Lawrence of Arabia". Given the overlap of certain critical ideas, it seems likely that he was introduced to some concepts by that movie's depiction of T. E. Lawrence. The theme of triumphing through the ability to endure pain and accept loss comes straight from that movie, particularly a key scene where natives try to duplicate Lawrence's ability to extinguish a candleflame with fingers without apparent pain. As he explains, there is no 'trick', only the choice not to care that it hurts.

[Corvus]

It could be good. Certainly looks visually impressive. But that doesn't always translate to a good move.

One odd choice is that they have turned Liet Kynes into a black woman. Not sure why, given that Liet was half-fremen (he had a fremen mother in the book) and was also the father of

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Chani

. The problem is that they don't look like any of the other fremen or

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Chani

.

[Cikomyr2]

It could be good. Certainly looks visually impressive. But that doesn't always translate to a good move.

One odd choice is that they have turned Liet Kynes into a black woman. Not sure why, given that Liet was half-fremen (he had a fremen mother in the book) and was also the father of

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Chani

. The problem is that they don't look like any of the other fremen or

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Chani

.

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Then the child takes more after the father? That's why the child had to go live among the fremen?

[Kitten Champion]

I was kind of wavering as to whether I'd watch any trailer material or not, as I don't intend to see any movie in the near future anyways. Still, it doesn't really matter.

My immediately thought was that it does take after Blade Runner 2049 and Arrival. Both in the sense of Villeneuve's love of the monochromatic and an underlying attempt to de-emphasize the more sublime aspects of speculative fiction that's commonly used at the forefront of genre cinema. The emphasis is on the actors' faces and the recognizable dialogue, while the unfamiliar SF technology and the alienating settings are pushed ever-so-casually into the background.

I like this version of Paul Atreides in particularly, he looks kind of underwhelming and bedraggled as opposed to... the obvious protagonist? I suppose. Not that I have a huge love for the novel(s) as on the whole I only read Dune once and wasn't a devoted fan or anything, but the idea of Paul's calculated abuse of the universe's beliefs to manipulate others into carrying out his revenge and eventual rise to power I found to be pretty cool. It was also something the Lynch adaptation muddled in a number of ways, including making its Paul into being way more of a Chad. He's got impressively coiffured 80's hair at all times, the body of an Olympic gymnast, seemingly unlimited confidence, talks with the kind of intensity of someone performing Henry V in a packed-out theatre, and he's got those literal superpowers going for him -- that and the lack of proper framing his arc made his actions in general feel kind of right and natural rather than expressing the more morally problematic angle that was core to the novel's themes.

Granted a few clips from a trailer are no basis for anything, ever. The rest of the movie might be a 1987 Japanese Coca-Cola ad on repeat for two hours.

[Berserk Mecha]

My initial reaction to this trailer is basically, "Yup, that looks like a Dune movie."

After my initial thoughts, I'm glad that it looks like it's taking itself seriously. Most of the more mainstream sci-fi and fantasy movies these days tend to go with the action-comedy route like the Marvel films so this looks like it will be a welcome change of pace.

I'm a little torn on the new design of the sandworms. It's a change from the usual three-part mouth that they're usually depicted with but I do kind of like that the maw looks like a giant eerie eye.

Also, does anyone know who will be playing Alia in this film? The character isn't listed on IMDB or Wikipedia. Alia's a difficult character to portray so I'm wondering if she's going to be some freakish CGI creation. Which... might be appropriate?

[Ramza00]

Supposedly Frank Herbert stole from an earlier book about a situation somewhere in the Caucausus or around the Caspian Sea. Tight on time, so I can't look it up.
Stillsuits should look very weathered... the screenshot of the one I assume is Stilgar makes their suits look too "new."

Yes Frank Herbert was inspired by Lesley Blanch ‘The Sabre Of Paradise‘ and many of the concepts, words, but also quotes he lifted directly from Lesley Blanch.

You can look it up, it is all over google if you type in Herbert plus Lesley Blanch or Herbert and The Sabre of Paradise.

I am not going to link them directly for it is open a whole different can of worms.

[Azuresun]

Also, does anyone know who will be playing Alia in this film? The character isn't listed on IMDB or Wikipedia. Alia's a difficult character to portray so I'm wondering if she's going to be some freakish CGI creation. Which... might be appropriate?

The adaptation's planned to be a two-parter (assuming the virus doesn't tank theatre sales enough that part two gets cancelled), so she's probably not in this part at all. It feels like the right choice--the Lynch adaptation and even the book felt a bit rushed to me after the time-skip.

[Eldan]

I didn't notice the Harkonnen Soldiers before. And Bautista is playing Rabban, I think?

So, they are all pale and bald. Rabban is from an ice planet, which might explain the paleness, but still interesting how uniform they all look. They might just all be enhanced in the same ways or something.

[Ramza00]

The adaptation's planned to be a two-parter (assuming the virus doesn't tank theatre sales enough that part two gets cancelled), so she's probably not in this part at all. It feels like the right choice--the Lynch adaptation and even the book felt a bit rushed to me after the time-skip.

They are filming part 1 and 2 simultaneously. They literally finished main shooting in 2019, yet they did some extra filming in Aug 2020 after post production. So to my understanding we are getting both a part 1 and 2.

[Cikomyr2]

Missed my favorite one. Rabban "The Beast" who gets belittled and insulted as an idiot by everyone who speaks about him, is literally the only one who recognized the fremen threat, and submitted a plan that would have uncovered what Paul was doing.

Only for the Baron to reject it.

can.. I get a refresher on Rabban's plan?! I don't remember that part

[Spike_99]

I'm so often disappointed by mass media products, and especially by remakes. Still, I'm actually excited about this version of Dune. Primarily because it's only covering the first half of the novel.

There are many reasons why Dune is quasi-impossible to capture on film, and one of the biggest reasons is that the protagonist is supposed to go through puberty and mature from a boy to a man in-between the two sections of the novel, which are some years apart. You can't really accomplish that with two different actors, and trying to create the illusion with a single actor is frequently ridiculous. But having two films (assuming this one is successful) might make it possible.

Sandworms! Melange! Levitating pedophile villains! Zendaya! I'm very hopeful about this.

The book has been crying out for a do-over for a very, very long time. I really liked the David Lynch version, despite it's problems. But, the CGI of 1984 just couldn't do justice to the tech in the novel. Also, Kyle MacLachlan may have been about 25 when he played Paul, but he looked 35. Timothee Chalamet is also about 25, but he looks younger: so he's more believable as a 16 year old Paul. Also, he's a much better actor. Production on the 2nd movie has been delayed by the COVID, so that might actually be to the film's advantage since the long delay will mean that the actors will be a few years older when they do Part 2 and it will easier to age up Timothee to play the older Paul.

From the trailer, the movie looks beautiful! From the body shields to the giant sand worms, everything looks 1000% better than the 1984 version. I can't wait!

[Eldan]

can.. I get a refresher on Rabban's plan?! I don't remember that part

I mainly remember him suggesting that someone should monitor the Fremen's precise movements and get a head count of how many there actually were, out in the desert. If they were dealing with some bands or an actual army.

[Narkis]

Trailer looks pretty good. I just hope the movie gets delayed, I'm not stepping into a theater mid-pandemic.

[SirKazum]

Trailer looks pretty good. I just hope the movie gets delayed, I'm not stepping into a theater mid-pandemic.

The release date is listed between December 17 and December 26 depending on the country. No release date is listed for Greece (or Brazil, for that matter) but I imagine it'd be within that range. I'm not sure I'd be comfortable stepping inside a theater by that point, but that's a whole other discussion.

[Narkis]

The release date is listed between December 17 and December 26 depending on the country. No release date is listed for Greece (or Brazil, for that matter) but I imagine it'd be within that range. I'm not sure I'd be comfortable stepping inside a theater by that point, but that's a whole other discussion.

Yeah, I definitely won't be comfortable stepping into a theater this winter. I'd prefer if it was delayed to spring or, even better, summer 2021.

[Caledonian]

Why? What do you think is going to change between then and now?

The majority of people who get Covid never even notice. You're free to avoid the theater if you wish - I'll be watching those sandworms on the big screen!

[hamishspence]

Missed my favorite one. Rabban "The Beast" who gets belittled and insulted as an idiot by everyone who speaks about him, is literally the only one who recognized the fremen threat, and submitted a plan that would have uncovered what Paul was doing.

Only for the Baron to reject it.

He does bring up the difficulties of counting the population, and his worries about the hazard presented by the Fremen - but he doesn't exactly submit plans - just the aforementioned worries.

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“You may keep some lasguns if you wish.”
“Yes, m’Lord. And I have a free hand.”
“As long as you squeeze.”
Rabban’s smile was gloating. “I understand perfectly, m’Lord.”
“You understand nothing perfectly,” the Baron growled. “Let us have that clear at the outset. What you do understand is how to carry out my orders. Has it occurred to you, nephew, that there are at least five million persons on this planet?”
“Does m‘Lord forget that I was his regent-siridar here before? And if m’Lord will forgive me, his estimate may be low. It’s difficult to count a population scattered among sinks and pans the way they are here. And when you consider the Fremen of—”
“The Fremen aren’t worth considering!”
“Forgive me, m’Lord, but the Sardaukar believe otherwise.”

...

“Well, the Sardaukar think they were Fremen. The Sardaukar already have launched a program to wipe out all Fremen.”
“Good!”
“But—”
“It’ll keep the Sardaukar occupied. And we’ll soon have Hawat. I know it! I can feel it! Ah, this has been a day! The Sardaukar off hunting a few useless desert bands while we get the real prize!”
“M’Lord....” Rabban hesitated, frowning. “I’ve always felt that we underestimated the Fremen, both in numbers and in—”
“Ignore them, boy! They’re rabble. It’s the populous towns, cities, and villages that concern us. A great many people there, eh?”
“A great many, m’Lord.”
“They worry me, Rabban.”
“Worry you?”
“Oh ... ninety per cent of them are of no concern. But there are always a few... Houses Minor and so on, people of ambition who might try a dangerous thing. If one of them should get off Arrakis with an unpleasant story about what happened here, I’d be most displeased. Have you any idea how displeased I’d be?”
Rabban swallowed.
“You must take immediate measures to hold a hostage from each House Minor,” the Baron said. “As far as anyone off Arrakis must learn, this was straightforward House-to-House battle. The Sardaukar had no part in it, you understand? The Duke was offered the usual quarter and exile, but he died in an unfortunate accident before he could accept. He was about to accept, though. That is the story. And any rumor that there were Sardaukar here, it must be laughed at.”
“As the Emperor wishes it,” Rabban said.

I'd agree though, that Rabban is sorely underestimated by many - he might not be super-smart, but he's well-grounded.

[Trafalgar]

Jason Momoa as Duncan Idaho.... Not sure how I feel about that.... Especially if they try to do all 6 books. Duncan is the only character in every book.

I liked Jason Momoa in GoT and in Aquaman but I don't know if he has the acting chops for the role. Of course, I also though Heath Ledger was going to be a horrible Joker before the Dark Knight came out so I could be wrong.

[Cikomyr2]

Jason Momoa as Duncan Idaho.... Not sure how I feel about that.... Especially if they try to do all 6 books. Duncan is the only character in every book.

I liked Jason Momoa in GoT and in Aquaman but I don't know if he has the acting chops for the role. Of course, I also though Heath Ledger was going to be a horrible Joker before the Dark Knight came out so I could be wrong.

Put Patrick Stewart as Leto 2, Worm-Emperor of Mankind, and make him do a duo act with Jason Momoa.

[Trafalgar]

Put Patrick Stewart as Leto 2, Worm-Emperor of Mankind, and make him do a duo act with Jason Momoa.

That would confuse me. Because Patrick Stewart is Gurney Halleck. Who plays Gurney in the new movie?

<Checks out IMDB>

----Josh Brolin----

So if things go the way you want....

Thanos was played by Josh Brolin who is playing Gurney Halleck who was played by Patrick Stewart who will pay Leto 2 in "God Emperor of Dune". Not sure where I was going with this but to show the 6 degrees of separation between Leto 2 and Thanos.

Incidentally, I am impressed by the cast.

[Cikomyr2]

That would confuse me. Because Patrick Stewart is Gurney Halleck. Who plays Gurney in the new movie?

<Checks out IMDB>

----Josh Brolin----

So if things go the way you want....

Thanos was played by Josh Brolin who is playing Gurney Halleck who was played by Patrick Stewart who will pay Leto 2 in "God Emperor of Dune". Not sure where I was going with this but to show the 6 degrees of separation between Leto 2 and Thanos.

Incidentally, I am impressed by the cast.

It would put a final bow on Patrick Stewart's career. He started with Dune, he ended with Dune.

Sorry, Dune as an overall work of media is more important to me as basically Patrick Stewart's breakout role into scifi.

[Trafalgar]

It would put a final bow on Patrick Stewart's career. He started with Dune, he ended with Dune.

Patrick Stewart had a career before Dune. I think the first thing I ever saw him in "I Claudius" in which he played Sejanus. That was made in the 70s. He still had most of his hair....