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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Default Cleric vs Paladins - differences in gameplay?

    Hey there,

    So alright, I understand the mechanical difference between Paladins and Clerics - in that I've read their class descriptions, subclasses etc. etc. and I understand the rules.

    My question is, how do they actually play out in campaigns?

    I've been playing DnD5e for a couple of years now, and weirdly, we've never had a Cleric nor a Paladin in our party. However, I've recently had a real hankering towards rolling a 'holy' character, and would just love to have a little better understanding of how they 'play'.

    I understand my question is very vague - I'm just trying to get a 'feel' of what a typical gaming day might involve for both of them. What's a typical combat like for both of them? How often do you end up using a spell slot to Divine Smite as a Paladin? Do you feel like you cast enough spells for it to be enjoyable? What sort of spells do you cast?

    The Cleric's Channel Divinity; are these real 'turn around' moments? How about Divine Intervention? I've got to say it sounds incredibly fun. As a Cleric, what sort of spells do you take? Do you feel your damage is lacking? Or perhaps damage isn't on your agenda to start with? Do you feel your expanded divine spell list, not to mention the level 6+ spells that Paladins can't get, make the Cleric a lot more fun?

    I'm only rolling questions off the top of my head, I don't mean for anybody to answer these specifically. As I said, I'm really just trying to get a 'feel' of the differences between the classes, and how they play out in game - without dredging over the obvious 'one hits things more, the other magics things more'. I hope I've made some sense!

    Thanks very much for reading!
    Last edited by Forechosen; 2020-08-08 at 04:46 PM.

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    Default Re: Cleric vs Paladins - differences in gameplay?

    Paladins play like warriors with good support features, clerics play like support casters that often end up close to or in melee.

    Clerics i see tend to gravitate towards duration spells like bless and spiritual weapon/guardians, though at least one has gone more into blasting with guiding bolt and the like. Divine intervention is unreliable but basically a wish when it comes up, diviniy powers vary but usually compete with spells in terms of power and usage.
    Clerics are incredible force multipliers, paladins are a balanced blend of tanky with big bursts of smite damage.
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Cleric vs Paladins - differences in gameplay?

    I play them rather similar but they can branch apart. So here is the similar comparision.

    Cleric: What would ____ want me to do? Serve your deity.
    Spam Sacred Flame
    Save 1st level slots for Cure Wounds (or emergency Healing Word)
    Cast Bless as appropriate
    Save a 2nd level slot for lesser restoration
    Cast Aid at the start of the day
    Cast Spiritual Weapon based on 2nd level slots remaining and encounter remaining
    Save a 3rd level slot for Revivify and Remove Curse
    Aid might be upgraded to a 3rd level spell now
    Cast Spiritual Guardians based on 3rd level slots remaining and encounters remaining
    Save a 5th level slot for Greater Restoration

    Paladin: What ought one do? Develop a Moral Theory and stick to it.
    Stand with 10ft of allies for your Aura
    Spam melee attack
    Use divine smite on crits or in an emergency
    Cast Bless as appropriate
    Consider saving spell slots for Cure Wounds
    Cast Aid at the start of the day
    Save a 3rd level slot for Revivify and Remove Curse
    Cast Aura of Vitality as appropriate

    Basically they follow different questions. Both are there for an aura (Cleric's is offensive, Paladin's is defensive) and repair magic afterwards. Cleric is 2 ranged attacks per turn. Paladin is 2 melee attacks per turn. Cleric is better at restoration magic (Paladins never get Greater Restoration and lag behind threats).
    Last edited by OldTrees1; 2020-08-08 at 05:19 PM.

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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Cleric vs Paladins - differences in gameplay?

    After spending time at afew more tables, I have to say that there is abig differencein table style.

    If your typical game is light on roleplay and is basically one combat after another with a loose plot holding them together then you will have a different experience to a campaign that is more about character.

    Clerics - you get the mechanics. I won't rehash those too much. There are a couple of points though. Channel Divinity and divine intervention that really set this class asside. Divine intervention is a really free-form way for you to express your deities power. You can chose an effect that you think encapsulates the very essence of your god that you want to represent. The description says a spell might be appropriate - but I think this is a guideline for power rather than a limit. Say you are a nature cleric you could suggest protecting all plants within a 5 mile radius from disease or you could suggest the conjuration of an appropriate wild beast or whatever. If you ever want to delve down into a theme in an RP heavy campaign this ability is great.

    Channel divinity is a bit less than this, but as something you can use many times a day (OK, for most of your career its probably twice per short rest) it helps to add to the flavour. One use is always turn undead - if you want a regular anti undead ability this might be a candidate. The other ability is very strongly tied to the domain and is usually a bitniche but very flavourful. Ifyou are in an RP heavy campaign I would suggest starting your selection of cleric domain by seeing which option you feel best represents your ideal and using that as a guide.


    Paladins on the other hand have better, broader CD options but get to use them less. That said their abilities are also vey flavourful. A big difference, in my oppinion, in their playstyles is active vs passive. A Paladin has more passive abilities, or rather more of their class power in passive abilities. Most have two passive auras, passive fighting styles, martial proficiencies etc.. Clerics are more active - activate a CD, a spell or a domain ability. Things like the cleric smite are just a smaller part of their power than at will martial prowess is to the paladin. This can contribute to a different feel.


    Ont other thingthat might be worth thinking about, is the abilities not on the class list. Things like feats. A paladin has two main stats to increase and benefits a lot form martial feats like Pole Arm Master; sure you dont have to go down this route but if you are at a table of optimisers then you will feel it if you don't. This martial style will feel like part of your character. The cleric on the other hand probably wants to boost just one stat as a priority and pick up a feat to use on concentration saves... whichmeans at higher levelsthe cleric has freedom to pick some really characterful feats without falling behind. An elven cleric for example might want to play up the elvish part and take a racial feat.

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    Default Re: Cleric vs Paladins - differences in gameplay?

    The Paladin aura(s) are really strong, particularly Ancients. They definitely have the ability to change tactics for your group in terms of positioning, etc. Combine with a Bless spell and you are talking +6/7 to all saves and damage resistance. We had a recent session where ours continued attacking instead of healing himself or asking for help, and got himself downed. The other PCs were not happy because we tend to have an unwritten rule of not letting the Paladin die because of the passive benefits of just being there.
    The majority of our Paladins have generally used the majority of their spells to smite with the occasional bless thrown in. It's just too good an option to add damage once you have guaranteed a hit (or a crit). You can burn through spells in a hurry this way. Several of our campaigns have been Fiend or Undead heavy though, which adds more damage. Nice to have some spells like Misty Step (Ancients) in your back pocket though to get where you need to go or other utility as well.

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    Default Re: Cleric vs Paladins - differences in gameplay?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrStabby View Post
    After spending time at afew more tables, I have to say that there is abig differencein table style.

    If your typical game is light on roleplay and is basically one combat after another with a loose plot holding them together then you will have a different experience to a campaign that is more about character.

    Clerics - you get the mechanics. I won't rehash those too much. There are a couple of points though. Channel Divinity and divine intervention that really set this class asside. Divine intervention is a really free-form way for you to express your deities power. You can chose an effect that you think encapsulates the very essence of your god that you want to represent. The description says a spell might be appropriate - but I think this is a guideline for power rather than a limit. Say you are a nature cleric you could suggest protecting all plants within a 5 mile radius from disease or you could suggest the conjuration of an appropriate wild beast or whatever. If you ever want to delve down into a theme in an RP heavy campaign this ability is great.

    Channel divinity is a bit less than this, but as something you can use many times a day (OK, for most of your career its probably twice per short rest) it helps to add to the flavour. One use is always turn undead - if you want a regular anti undead ability this might be a candidate. The other ability is very strongly tied to the domain and is usually a bitniche but very flavourful. Ifyou are in an RP heavy campaign I would suggest starting your selection of cleric domain by seeing which option you feel best represents your ideal and using that as a guide.


    Paladins on the other hand have better, broader CD options but get to use them less. That said their abilities are also vey flavourful. A big difference, in my oppinion, in their playstyles is active vs passive. A Paladin has more passive abilities, or rather more of their class power in passive abilities. Most have two passive auras, passive fighting styles, martial proficiencies etc.. Clerics are more active - activate a CD, a spell or a domain ability. Things like the cleric smite are just a smaller part of their power than at will martial prowess is to the paladin. This can contribute to a different feel.


    Ont other thingthat might be worth thinking about, is the abilities not on the class list. Things like feats. A paladin has two main stats to increase and benefits a lot form martial feats like Pole Arm Master; sure you dont have to go down this route but if you are at a table of optimisers then you will feel it if you don't. This martial style will feel like part of your character. The cleric on the other hand probably wants to boost just one stat as a priority and pick up a feat to use on concentration saves... whichmeans at higher levelsthe cleric has freedom to pick some really characterful feats without falling behind. An elven cleric for example might want to play up the elvish part and take a racial feat.
    Thank you so much for this detailed response! It was honestly exactly the sort of answer I was looking for!

    We have a small playgroup, it's only a party of us three, plus the DM. Occaisonally a forth player joins our party, but that isn't often. And I'd say we're fairly RP heavy! We don't 'roleplay' our characters per say (do their voices), but we're all heavily invested in their stories, thematics, etc etc. Having said that, we do have a bit of combat too. Regarding optimisation, we do try and optimise as much as we can, but not at the expense of roleplay. For example, we wouldn't pick polearm master unless it specifically fit the character.

    What I'm gathering from your post (correct me if I'm wrong!) is that Clerics can feel pretty dang 'original'. Both from a roleplay standpoint, but also from a mechanical one, i.e. using the Divine Intervention. Personally, I love the idea of having such a thematic set of abilities to complement a character. You've done a good job of selling the Cleric to me!

    Paladin's on the other hand, I'm reading what you've written as.. they're a little bland to play from a mechanical standpoint? Obviously, whatever character you make, you can make them as interesting as you want roleplay-wise. But from the sounds of it, Paladins play like a very passive 'aura' fighter, with a few spells tacked on? I might have thought there'd be quite a lot of decision making in what spells to cast, when to Smite, etc etc. but... no? Just, stand by your allies, hit things, cast a (support-buff) spell if things get hairy?

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    Default Re: Cleric vs Paladins - differences in gameplay?

    Quote Originally Posted by 5eNeedsDarksun View Post
    The Paladin aura(s) are really strong, particularly Ancients. They definitely have the ability to change tactics for your group in terms of positioning, etc. Combine with a Bless spell and you are talking +6/7 to all saves and damage resistance. We had a recent session where ours continued attacking instead of healing himself or asking for help, and got himself downed. The other PCs were not happy because we tend to have an unwritten rule of not letting the Paladin die because of the passive benefits of just being there.
    The majority of our Paladins have generally used the majority of their spells to smite with the occasional bless thrown in. It's just too good an option to add damage once you have guaranteed a hit (or a crit). You can burn through spells in a hurry this way. Several of our campaigns have been Fiend or Undead heavy though, which adds more damage. Nice to have some spells like Misty Step (Ancients) in your back pocket though to get where you need to go or other utility as well.
    Thanks for the reply! That is great information, although, it has sort of illustrated what I was worrying about, that the Paladin's playstyle is a little 'passive'. I was genuinely wondering about how much you'd Smite vs use the slot for a spell, and it looks like that isn't that much of a decision - as, as you've said, the damage is so nice.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not doubting their effectiveness. Just to me, personally, they're not looking as 'fun' as a Cleric at the moment.

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    Default Re: Cleric vs Paladins - differences in gameplay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Forechosen View Post
    Thank you so much for this detailed response! It was honestly exactly the sort of answer I was looking for!

    We have a small playgroup, it's only a party of us three, plus the DM. Occaisonally a forth player joins our party, but that isn't often. And I'd say we're fairly RP heavy! We don't 'roleplay' our characters per say (do their voices), but we're all heavily invested in their stories, thematics, etc etc. Having said that, we do have a bit of combat too. Regarding optimisation, we do try and optimise as much as we can, but not at the expense of roleplay. For example, we wouldn't pick polearm master unless it specifically fit the character.

    What I'm gathering from your post (correct me if I'm wrong!) is that Clerics can feel pretty dang 'original'. Both from a roleplay standpoint, but also from a mechanical one, i.e. using the Divine Intervention. Personally, I love the idea of having such a thematic set of abilities to complement a character. You've done a good job of selling the Cleric to me!

    Paladin's on the other hand, I'm reading what you've written as.. they're a little bland to play from a mechanical standpoint? Obviously, whatever character you make, you can make them as interesting as you want roleplay-wise. But from the sounds of it, Paladins play like a very passive 'aura' fighter, with a few spells tacked on? I might have thought there'd be quite a lot of decision making in what spells to cast, when to Smite, etc etc. but... no? Just, stand by your allies, hit things, cast a (support-buff) spell if things get hairy?
    Kind of... I think that this does undersell paladins as a class, but there is some truth to the perspective. A paladin does have to make a lot of active decisions as well and is tactially rich, but a lot of this richness is around where to stand. Movement is really important to a paladin - from where to position their aura, to where to stand to get the best chance of an opportunity attack, to which enemy to pound into the dirt... they are not tactically bland even if a lot of their strength (realtive to the cleric) comes from passive abilities.

    Clerics are maybe a bit richer in terms of the contribution of mechanics to RP - they have access to a lot of spells and rituals which makes them useful out of combat and helps them play the holy man/woman well. They can provide spiritual and moral guidance to a party, and if in doubt they can always commune for a second opinion. Speaking of which, I think that spells like commune are why you might want toplay this - cast as a ritual you get to recive some divine guiance each day and you can express your own priorities and challenges through the questions you want to focus on - be those problems your own or your team mates.

    Other spells like augry and speak with dead help you in a more generic psychopomp role, healing lets you play a cherished supported member of the party. These are still things a Paladincan do, but the oportunity cost for the paladin of dedicating spell slots to this is so much higher.

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    Default Re: Cleric vs Paladins - differences in gameplay?

    I'd play Cleric, without hesitation. The versatility is huge and if you pick the right domain for you, it works as a "fun multiplier".
    Look up the Arcana cleric build posted somewhere on these forums if you like something tanky, or the Light domain if you want to step in the blaster job. Trickery domain can be quite fun too if you don't spend most of the sessions fighting.

    My favourite classes are wizard and druid, but cleric is a solid third pick for me.

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    Default Re: Cleric vs Paladins - differences in gameplay?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrStabby View Post
    Kind of... I think that this does undersell paladins as a class, but there is some truth to the perspective. A paladin does have to make a lot of active decisions as well and is tactially rich, but a lot of this richness is around where to stand. Movement is really important to a paladin - from where to position their aura, to where to stand to get the best chance of an opportunity attack, to which enemy to pound into the dirt... they are not tactically bland even if a lot of their strength (realtive to the cleric) comes from passive abilities.

    Clerics are maybe a bit richer in terms of the contribution of mechanics to RP - they have access to a lot of spells and rituals which makes them useful out of combat and helps them play the holy man/woman well. They can provide spiritual and moral guidance to a party, and if in doubt they can always commune for a second opinion. Speaking of which, I think that spells like commune are why you might want toplay this - cast as a ritual you get to recive some divine guiance each day and you can express your own priorities and challenges through the questions you want to focus on - be those problems your own or your team mates.

    Other spells like augry and speak with dead help you in a more generic psychopomp role, healing lets you play a cherished supported member of the party. These are still things a Paladincan do, but the oportunity cost for the paladin of dedicating spell slots to this is so much higher.
    Oh no perhaps I was being too harsh, I mean, honestly, I'm having a blast playing a barbarian at the moment, and her hardest decision is whether she wants to hit something or grapple it.

    But I am looking for a slightly richer experience in whatever character I make next, so this is all genuinely really helpful information. It really does sound as if the Cleric is more what I'm looking for in this scenario.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miele View Post
    I'd play Cleric, without hesitation. The versatility is huge and if you pick the right domain for you, it works as a "fun multiplier".
    Look up the Arcana cleric build posted somewhere on these forums if you like something tanky, or the Light domain if you want to step in the blaster job. Trickery domain can be quite fun too if you don't spend most of the sessions fighting.

    My favourite classes are wizard and druid, but cleric is a solid third pick for me.
    Oh I've already decided if I were to pick a Cleric, I'd pick a Light Cleric 100% - I just love the whole, uh, 'light/radiant magic' kind of feel! And I completely see what you mean when you say 'fun multiplier'.

    ....Having said that, I'm going to have to read up so much on the different deities now - but heh I suppose that's part of the fun anyway

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    Default Re: Cleric vs Paladins - differences in gameplay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Forechosen View Post
    Paladin's on the other hand, I'm reading what you've written as.. they're a little bland to play from a mechanical standpoint? Obviously, whatever character you make, you can make them as interesting as you want roleplay-wise. But from the sounds of it, Paladins play like a very passive 'aura' fighter, with a few spells tacked on? I might have thought there'd be quite a lot of decision making in what spells to cast, when to Smite, etc etc. but... no? Just, stand by your allies, hit things, cast a (support-buff) spell if things get hairy?
    Yeah that about sums it up. Some of the time you can get away with doing nothing but stand there. My Inspiring Leader Ancients Paladin basically let us nuke our own position. My auras cut the damage by -75% and that was mostly covered by the THP I was granting to the party. Where to stand is your most important decision as an Ancient's Paladin*. I still attacked, but my actions before combat (Aid, Inspire) mattered more than my attacks during combat. The Barbarian, Rogue, and Martial Necromancer were the meat of the offense. I was a defensive aura.

    You do have plenty of optional decisions you can make (which buff spell, how to smite, when to use channel), but your mere presence already contributes a lot. So you can save those limited resources for later (maybe for an ambush in the night).

    However if things start to go badly, then you start smiting every attack. Casting whatever bonus action buffs you can. And being ready to spam Cure Wounds or Lay on Hands during a retreat.


    *Our group was good at positioning, but there are several times when I had to choose which ally to leave out of the aura. Who doesn't get the +5 vs Petrification this round?
    Last edited by OldTrees1; 2020-08-08 at 06:40 PM.

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    Default Re: Cleric vs Paladins - differences in gameplay?

    Light cleric can be all sorts of fun. They tie with Tempest for my favorite cleric.

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    Default Re: Cleric vs Paladins - differences in gameplay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Forechosen View Post
    Thank you so much for this detailed response! It was honestly exactly the sort of answer I was looking for!

    We have a small playgroup, it's only a party of us three, plus the DM. Occaisonally a forth player joins our party, but that isn't often. And I'd say we're fairly RP heavy! We don't 'roleplay' our characters per say (do their voices), but we're all heavily invested in their stories, thematics, etc etc. Having said that, we do have a bit of combat too. Regarding optimisation, we do try and optimise as much as we can, but not at the expense of roleplay. For example, we wouldn't pick polearm master unless it specifically fit the character.

    What I'm gathering from your post (correct me if I'm wrong!) is that Clerics can feel pretty dang 'original'. Both from a roleplay standpoint, but also from a mechanical one, i.e. using the Divine Intervention. Personally, I love the idea of having such a thematic set of abilities to complement a character. You've done a good job of selling the Cleric to me!

    Paladin's on the other hand, I'm reading what you've written as.. they're a little bland to play from a mechanical standpoint? Obviously, whatever character you make, you can make them as interesting as you want roleplay-wise. But from the sounds of it, Paladins play like a very passive 'aura' fighter, with a few spells tacked on? I might have thought there'd be quite a lot of decision making in what spells to cast, when to Smite, etc etc. but... no? Just, stand by your allies, hit things, cast a (support-buff) spell if things get hairy?
    That's actually the very reason I think Divine Smite was a terrible decision on the Paladin. I get that there are a lot of players that like the Fighter, and Fighter-esc playstyles, but there aren't many melee options for the other half of player. The kind that are casting Suggestion or are debating whether a Concentration Spell or puppyguarding the Wizard is more important. The Paladin could have been that bridge, but they instead added Divine Smite to make another Fighter "With Casting!*"

    *Spellcasting may not be available in your region/campaign, due to limited supply (of scenarios where Divine Smite is suboptimal).



    I agree with pretty much everything MrStabby and OldTree said.

    Paladin is basically a slightly shifted Eldritch Knight, with less utility and more party combat support.

    The Cleric is the game's most versatile Caster (in combat), as it's the only one that can consider the prospect of "front line" as an option seriously (where most others have to take serious investments to do it part-time). Out of combat, it doesn't quite match up with the Bard or Wizard types, but realistically nobody else does either.
    Last edited by Man_Over_Game; 2020-08-08 at 08:44 PM.
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    Default Re: Cleric vs Paladins - differences in gameplay?

    Tangentially,

    Cleric isn't just about getting level 6+ spells, but about getting all the spells faster.

    Getting Revivify at level 5 compared to level 9 is a big deal, for example. (Of course, casting it comes at the expense of Spirit Guardians.)

    Anyway,

    Ken

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    Default Re: Cleric vs Paladins - differences in gameplay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Forechosen View Post
    Oh no perhaps I was being too harsh, I mean, honestly, I'm having a blast playing a barbarian at the moment, and her hardest decision is whether she wants to hit something or grapple it.

    But I am looking for a slightly richer experience in whatever character I make next, so this is all genuinely really helpful information. It really does sound as if the Cleric is more what I'm looking for in this scenario.



    Oh I've already decided if I were to pick a Cleric, I'd pick a Light Cleric 100% - I just love the whole, uh, 'light/radiant magic' kind of feel! And I completely see what you mean when you say 'fun multiplier'.

    ....Having said that, I'm going to have to read up so much on the different deities now - but heh I suppose that's part of the fun anyway
    The only 5e cleric I've played is a Light cleric. It's strong, and I'm sure that is stating the obvious. Armor, d8 hp, Fireballs, Channel Divinity, and a functioning reaction out of the box. My character liked to cleanse away the evils of the realm with his holy fire, great fun.

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    Default Re: Cleric vs Paladins - differences in gameplay?

    Just to add to what has been said

    Clerics are full casters that can sit down on the front lines and hit things with weapons if they need to, but prefer to cast spells and are usually better doing so.

    Paladins are half casters that can sit down on the front lines and cast spells when they need to, but prefer to hit things with weapons and are usually better doing so.

    I love both classes and I'd rank them both among the top tier classes in 5e

    It's a myth that Clerics aren't very good at dealing damage as several domains, Tempest for example, can dish out an extraordinary amount of damage without ever swinging a weapon while not being terrible at swinging a weapon when the situation calls for it.

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    Default Re: Cleric vs Paladins - differences in gameplay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Forechosen View Post

    What I'm gathering from your post (correct me if I'm wrong!) is that Clerics can feel pretty dang 'original'. Both from a roleplay standpoint, but also from a mechanical one, i.e. using the Divine Intervention. Personally, I love the idea of having such a thematic set of abilities to complement a character. You've done a good job of selling the Cleric to me!

    Paladin's on the other hand, I'm reading what you've written as.. they're a little bland to play from a mechanical standpoint? Obviously, whatever character you make, you can make them as interesting as you want roleplay-wise. But from the sounds of it, Paladins play like a very passive 'aura' fighter, with a few spells tacked on? I might have thought there'd be quite a lot of decision making in what spells to cast, when to Smite, etc etc. but... no? Just, stand by your allies, hit things, cast a (support-buff) spell if things get hairy?
    So, i've definitely played clerics more than paladins. so take what i say with say with a grain of salt. I was planning to reply with amore comprehensive overview of the differences (at least as i see them). but that was only if you didn't get all these replies (i was at work..had to wait until i got home). but you did so. anyway, what I wanted to point out is that, similar to what srstabby says. you're underselling the paladin mechanics a bit.

    the different paladin oaths have a strong potential to create an entirely different mindset in terms of battle. a different list of priorities. and if you're as RP focused as it sounds like you, then that can definitely reflect in how they're played mechanically. that....may not be as clear as it seems to be in my head so imma try to give an example.

    devotion paladin, with the protection fighting style (i know, not even close to optimal. but im setting up a mindset). Endaro here is a follower of the goddess of compassion. his primary goal is to protect his friends and allies. as such, as a character he'd be far more focused on playing in essentially the way you described. If there's a choke point, he'd try to occupy it, but failing that he'd stick close to the more vulnerable of his friends, and if given the choice between protecting an ally, and hurting an enemy (ignoring the fact that sometimes hurting an enemy protects an ally), he'll choose protecting the ally.

    But then you have Herecles, the vengeance paladin of Asmodeus. he couldn't give 2 ****s about protecting his allies. if they fall, they were too weak to be worth travelling with. If they want to benefit from his protective presence, they should be up near the fighting instead of cowering a dozen yards behind. Pitiful creatures. Herecles prioritizes damage. he wants to bring down enemies as quickly as he can. if he casts a spell, it'll typically be offensive. Commanding a foe to grovel before him. Drawing the focus of the meanest foe on the battlefield, and compeling them to duel.

    above you have 2 fairly different playstyles for paladins, and the important thing is that they're both not only viable, but strong. While a fighters action surge nova is difficult to compete with in terms of singel round burst (for a martial anway). Paladins can nova for several rounds in a row if they need to (although...that's inadvisable unless you're sure to get a long rest afterward). And while to get the absolute most out of your Aura of Protection you need to maximize the number of allies within it, group up like that can also be detrimental. meanwhile the Paladin benefits from their own aura, so its never entirely wasted.

    another thing to keep in mind is that, due to their magic/healing Paladins are one of the most self-sufficient in terms of operating solo on a battlefield. Barbarians are a strong competitor just due to raw tankiness. But paladins aren't anywhere near as weak to CC as barbarians are. not only do they have their Aura of protection, they also are proficient with wis saves. and frequently have a better AC. Point being, that their aura of protection isn't so powerful that moving more than 10 feet from your backline is suboptimal. and a paladins abilities make it so that you can more than make up for the loss that *is* suffered when they move out of range.



    i hope i've made myself clear..its kinda late. I think the gist of what im getting at is that paladins do have enough tactical options that maximizing their aura of protection doesn't *have* to be their focus. In fact, for an even more different playstyle, there's a guide somewhere in the sub-forum for building a cha focused conquest paladin. probably the closest you'll find to a straight caster paladin, and it definitely seems like it could be a lot of fun...albeit particularly at later levels.

    now, the bad news, while i've been building them up, i still do agree that clerics are far, far more versatile in their playstyle. and i mean any given cleric, not just at character creation, although that does impact it. the number of spells available to clerics, combined with their d8 HD and decent armor, means that (as others have pointed out) on the battle field any given subclass of cleric can comfortably fill nearly any roll well enough. and they can change the roll they fill battle by battle. of course, some clerics definitely favor certain role's. BUt...yeah, super versatile.

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    Default Re: Cleric vs Paladins - differences in gameplay?

    I have a friend whose way to play a Paladin is "Fighter 1/Clerix X"

    Works for him.
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    Default Re: Cleric vs Paladins - differences in gameplay?

    In my experience, Paladins typically deal damage faster than anyone else, and run out of resources for the day faster than anyone else.

    Clerics have a few standout spells that are just superior to their peers, like Spiritual Weapon. Therefore, even though Cleric has more potential to be diverse than maybe any other class, in practice optimized Clerics are all pretty similar.
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    Default Re: Cleric vs Paladins - differences in gameplay?

    I think Clerics and Paladins feel very opposite in terms of actual play. It certainly depends on the subclass and the build. I can tell you how I play these classes. I play Paladin with a mathematical approach and cleric with a more tactical approach.

    As a Paladin -
    The priority is to identify the enemy melee clusters and choke points. The first rounds are always about claiming territory. I make heavy use of dodge action, and focus on claiming the area I want to fight in. I take notes about the offensive power of the enemies. If I think my defenses are adequate, I attack, else I wait for my team mates to kill the mooks while stacking defensive effects as required. The next priority is to unleash all my offensive arsenal on the high value target.

    I generally don't use many spells with Paladin. I prefer smites. When I play sorcadin I make heavy use of Blur and Shield.

    As a Cleric -
    I rarely overextend with a Cleric to claim area unless it's an obvious choke point. I have access to ranged attacks, so I stay close to my ranged teammates and try to focus targets down, giving priority to ranged targets. I generally prefer to not be the main tank because cleric is probably the best class to intercept flanking enemies. It's a bait and switch type of situation. The enemy tries to attack the squishy and instead they will either get slowed and I will stick on them like glue, or sanctuary their target.

    The go to spells are Bless, Healing Word, Sanctuary, SG. I mostly attack with cantrips.

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    Default Re: Cleric vs Paladins - differences in gameplay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Draz74 View Post
    In my experience, Paladins typically deal damage faster than anyone else, and run out of resources for the day faster than anyone else.

    Clerics have a few standout spells that are just superior to their peers, like Spiritual Weapon. Therefore, even though Cleric has more potential to be diverse than maybe any other class, in practice optimized Clerics are all pretty similar.
    I have to agree on paladins having shallow fuel tanks. More than any other characters we have (bard, cleric, and druid at present), it is the paladin that consistently runs dry on spell slots (almost entirely spent on Smites) and pushes for a long rest.

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    Default Re: Cleric vs Paladins - differences in gameplay?

    Quote Originally Posted by HappyDaze View Post
    I have to agree on paladins having shallow fuel tanks. More than any other characters we have (bard, cleric, and druid at present), it is the paladin that consistently runs dry on spell slots (almost entirely spent on Smites) and pushes for a long rest.
    Theyhave shallow fuel tanks but a lot of them... so many different resource pools.

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    Default Re: Cleric vs Paladins - differences in gameplay?

    Quote Originally Posted by HappyDaze View Post
    I have to agree on paladins having shallow fuel tanks. More than any other characters we have (bard, cleric, and druid at present), it is the paladin that consistently runs dry on spell slots (almost entirely spent on Smites) and pushes for a long rest.
    Hmm. They have shallow fuel tanks, but are driving downhill. They can put it in neutral and coast through the day without smiting. Or they can smite and run out of fuel, and then put it in neutral and coast through the rest of the day.

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    Default Re: Cleric vs Paladins - differences in gameplay?

    Quote Originally Posted by OldTrees1 View Post
    Hmm. They have shallow fuel tanks, but are driving downhill. They can put it in neutral and coast through the day without smiting. Or they can smite and run out of fuel, and then put it in neutral and coast through the rest of the day.
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