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2020-08-09, 01:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: RAW, would Telekenesis allow you to Strip off an enemy's armour?
I don't see anything written anywhere in Telekinesis saying that it doesn't obey the item interaction rules, aside from being done at a distance.
So Telekinesis also replace the Knock spell?
It isn't, though. Not for Telekinesis at least.
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2020-08-09, 01:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: RAW, would Telekenesis allow you to Strip off an enemy's armour?
It clearly dictates its own behavior with items.
Why not? It's not like you need a key if you can turn the mechanism magically. And well, using a 5th level spell to do better then a 2nd level spell... isn't weird.
Why not? It doesn't have a strenght score and as someone stated it does more then a monster could do. It's only limit is weight, besides that it can do pretty much anything you need it to do.
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2020-08-09, 02:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: RAW, would Telekenesis allow you to Strip off an enemy's armour?
For having to see the object - clothing can have holes. Even better, let us consider partial plate.
Spoiler: 1400s era partial plate, there is a full chain mail shirt under that cuirass, poking out from the bottom
Can you use Telekinesis to remove that chain mail shirt, while keeping the plate cuirass and faulds in place? Without damage to person or equipment? You do have line of sight to that chain shirt after all. Or better yet, can you remove a layer from a formal dress (e.g. kimono) that uses entirely too many?That which does not kill you made a tactical error.
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2020-08-09, 02:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-08-09, 02:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: RAW, would Telekenesis allow you to Strip off an enemy's armour?
RAW, yes.
Please keep in mind that D&D 5e is written in plain language without the borderline legalese that governed older editions, and this design choice is predicated on the idea that the DM has the power and responsibility to adjudicate the rules for fairness and fun.
As a consequence, the RAW answer to any question is effectively useless. The DM decides. The players either play or quit or argue with the DM. We can all have our opinions on how genius or stupid phasing someone's armor off them is, but the only usable answer is "whatever the DM says," not RAW.Lantanese gnome avatar by the talented Honest Tiefling.
Don't call it a rework - 5e Ranger optional class features
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2020-08-09, 02:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: RAW, would Telekenesis allow you to Strip off an enemy's armour?
There appears to be a discrepancy between "move" a worn object and the ability to "remove" one. Telekinesis does not allow you to "remove" an object, nor break one; only "move" it. The spell would not allow you to move an object through a solid wall any more than it would allow you to break iron manacles or full plate harness to forcibly remove them faster than would normally be allowed.
Yes, Telekinesis allows you to move objects but no more. Nor does it allow you do things faster or more extraordinary than it specifically describes; including doffing armour quicker than normally described (whether your own or anothers).I apologise if I come across daft. I'm a bit like that. I also like a good argument, so please don't take offence if I'm somewhat...forthright.
Please be aware; when it comes to 5ed D&D, I own Core (1st printing) and SCAG only. All my opinions and rulings are based solely on those, unless otherwise stated. I reserve the right of ignorance of errata or any other source.
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2020-08-09, 02:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-08-09, 02:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: RAW, would Telekenesis allow you to Strip off an enemy's armour?
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2020-08-09, 03:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: RAW, would Telekenesis allow you to Strip off an enemy's armour?
Last edited by Valmark; 2020-08-09 at 03:04 PM.
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2020-08-09, 03:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: RAW, would Telekenesis allow you to Strip off an enemy's armour?
I apologise if I come across daft. I'm a bit like that. I also like a good argument, so please don't take offence if I'm somewhat...forthright.
Please be aware; when it comes to 5ed D&D, I own Core (1st printing) and SCAG only. All my opinions and rulings are based solely on those, unless otherwise stated. I reserve the right of ignorance of errata or any other source.
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2020-08-09, 04:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: RAW, would Telekenesis allow you to Strip off an enemy's armour?
"If the object is worn or carried by a creature, you must make an ability check with your Spellcasting Ability contested by that creature's Strength check. If you succeed, you pull the object away from that creature and can move it up to 30 feet in any direction but not beyond the range of this spell."
Yes it does. Funny enough, Amnestic pointed out the same thing and you conviniently ignored that.
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2020-08-09, 04:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: RAW, would Telekenesis allow you to Strip off an enemy's armour?
That quote does not explicitly say that it removes an object. Pulling an object away does not explicity allow you to break an object, nor allow an object to pass through another; either of which would be required to remove worn armour without going through the "doff armour" process.
I apologise if I come across daft. I'm a bit like that. I also like a good argument, so please don't take offence if I'm somewhat...forthright.
Please be aware; when it comes to 5ed D&D, I own Core (1st printing) and SCAG only. All my opinions and rulings are based solely on those, unless otherwise stated. I reserve the right of ignorance of errata or any other source.
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2020-08-09, 04:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: RAW, would Telekenesis allow you to Strip off an enemy's armour?
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2020-08-09, 04:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: RAW, would Telekenesis allow you to Strip off an enemy's armour?
How are you pulling an object away, no questions asked (because it gives no exception, you pass the test you pull it away), without removing it? Because that's what it does.
And nothing of that is strictly required, the armor could unstrap automatically istantly. I wouldn't rule it like that, but it would be consistent with RAW.
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2020-08-09, 04:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2019
Re: RAW, would Telekenesis allow you to Strip off an enemy's armour?
How are you pulling an object away without removing it?
This is left up to the DM to rule upon. You could decide that all the strapping breaks and the front facing half of the plate mail is torn from the wearer. You could rule that all of the plate mail is torn from/through the person wearing it causing extensive damage. You could rule that the spell allows you to manifest a dozen little hands that unfasten every belt and buckle (a task that normally takes 5 minutes or more) before the massive force of the spell rips the armor away (all within the time of 1 action). Etc ...
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2020-08-09, 05:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: RAW, would Telekenesis allow you to Strip off an enemy's armour?
I think this is a perfect case of:
When you see something that doesn't make sense... A wizard did it.
It works by RAW, not real world logic, because magic.
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2020-08-09, 05:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: RAW, would Telekenesis allow you to Strip off an enemy's armour?
It also gives no exemption. Removing a piece of armour in the context of doffing armour (which is the specific "removal" being discussed) is not the same as "moving" the same armour when it is only being held or unattended. Removing a hat or other piece of worn clothing, jewelery or other object that can be achieved with a single action can be contested and removed, yes, but that isn't the context here.
And nothing of that is strictly required, the armor could unstrap automatically istantly. I wouldn't rule it like that, but it would be consistent with RAW.I apologise if I come across daft. I'm a bit like that. I also like a good argument, so please don't take offence if I'm somewhat...forthright.
Please be aware; when it comes to 5ed D&D, I own Core (1st printing) and SCAG only. All my opinions and rulings are based solely on those, unless otherwise stated. I reserve the right of ignorance of errata or any other source.
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2020-08-09, 06:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: RAW, would Telekenesis allow you to Strip off an enemy's armour?
Yeah, it's not the same as unattended and that's why there is a different rule. Carried or worn is explicitely treated the same way, no exception. You don't need an exemption because you have no exception. You aren't exempt from don/doff rules because those don't matter with the wording of the spell.
And how is it inconsistent? I'm not using fine manipulation, I'm using the pulling away option. How is it done is up to the DM.
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2020-08-09, 06:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: RAW, would Telekenesis allow you to Strip off an enemy's armour?
RE: Emphasis. Why not? The spell does not say it allows you to disregard the specific rules regarding donning amd doffing armour. The exemption is required.
And how is it inconsistent? I'm not using fine manipulation, I'm using the pulling away option. How is it done is up to the DM.
The spell, like any Rule as Written, does no more or less than what it describes. The Telekinesis spell does not, explicitly, allow you to ignore the usual time to doff armour. It allows you to move held or worn objects away from someone, but only if it complies with all other rules regarding wearing that item . Another example would be a cursed item that the wearer cannot remove without suppressing or removing the curse; Telekinesis would no more be able to remove such an item than to doff someones armour instantly because the spell does not provide exemption from the rules to do so.I apologise if I come across daft. I'm a bit like that. I also like a good argument, so please don't take offence if I'm somewhat...forthright.
Please be aware; when it comes to 5ed D&D, I own Core (1st printing) and SCAG only. All my opinions and rulings are based solely on those, unless otherwise stated. I reserve the right of ignorance of errata or any other source.
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2020-08-09, 07:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2017
Re: RAW, would Telekenesis allow you to Strip off an enemy's armour?
This has been throughly answered, but if you want a comparable effect-"Undress" is a perfectly valid use of the first level Command spell. Just wanted to put that in.
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2020-08-09, 07:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: RAW, would Telekenesis allow you to Strip off an enemy's armour?
I apologise if I come across daft. I'm a bit like that. I also like a good argument, so please don't take offence if I'm somewhat...forthright.
Please be aware; when it comes to 5ed D&D, I own Core (1st printing) and SCAG only. All my opinions and rulings are based solely on those, unless otherwise stated. I reserve the right of ignorance of errata or any other source.
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2020-08-09, 07:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-08-09, 07:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: RAW, would Telekenesis allow you to Strip off an enemy's armour?
The spell also doesn't say the armor isn't an eligible object. It simply says "An item worn or carried this and that". And if we want to talk about specific, a single 5th level spell is much more specific then the rule to don/doff armor.
I gave one way for it to work RAW- another player gave three more ways for it to work. It was just a way to describe it.
The Telekinesis spell doesn't say explicitely that it ignores doffing rules. Again, that's because it has a single way for a worn item to work. I'm not gonna repeat it again seeing how that's normal understanding and I'm tired of writing that.
A cursed item that says that it cannot be taken off unless X happens is way more specific then the armor thing. It also has special ways to work. If we want to talk about specific, that is very specific.
And it wouldn't even be weird to make it work, having a 5th level spell emulate something done by a 3rd level spell, though I wouldn't let it.
That's true.
Also hope you have a lot of those to make someone take their armor off.
And is hilarious if you do xDLast edited by Valmark; 2020-08-09 at 07:52 PM.
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2020-08-09, 08:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: RAW, would Telekenesis allow you to Strip off an enemy's armour?
Originally Posted by Valmark
I gave one way for it to work RAW- another player gave three more ways for it to work. It was just a way to describe it.
The Telekinesis spell doesn't say explicitely that it ignores doffing rules. Again, that's because it has a single way for a worn item to work. I'm not gonna repeat it again seeing how that's normal understanding and I'm tired of writing that.
A cursed item that says that it cannot be taken off unless X happens is way more specific then the armor thing. It also has special ways to work. If we want to talk about specific, that is very specific.
And it wouldn't even be weird to make it work, having a 5th level spell emulate something done by a 3rd level spell, though I wouldn't let it.
Incidentally, I forgot to respond to this post. None of the above is within the remit of the Telekinesis spell.
It cannot break an object.
It cannot cause damage directly.
It cannot cause a solid object to move through another.
It cannot do things quicker than otherwise ruled.
It does not, strictly speaking, exert force. You could not, for example, use Telekinesis to shatter a glass bottle. You can cause a glass bottle to break using the spell (e.g. by moving it to a great height and allowing it to fall), but you could not shatter the glass directly. Telekinesis does not have an effective Str score, per se. It can move and restrain a character and move objects, yes, but just because it can move an object that weighs up to 1,000lbs does not mean it can exert 1,000lbs of force. You could not even draw blood with a needle using Telekinesis; such is not within the remit of the spell, RAW.Last edited by JellyPooga; 2020-08-09 at 08:13 PM.
I apologise if I come across daft. I'm a bit like that. I also like a good argument, so please don't take offence if I'm somewhat...forthright.
Please be aware; when it comes to 5ed D&D, I own Core (1st printing) and SCAG only. All my opinions and rulings are based solely on those, unless otherwise stated. I reserve the right of ignorance of errata or any other source.
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2020-08-09, 08:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-08-09, 08:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-08-09, 08:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: RAW, would Telekenesis allow you to Strip off an enemy's armour?
Yes. It takes 1 action to doff a shield. I would allow Telekinesis to doff armour too...only it would require the appropriate time frame (1 minute, or 10 rounds, for Light/Medium armour, 5 minutes, or 50 rounds, for Heavy) and I would likely require the opposed check on each round, but the latter is my call as GM and not, strictly, RAW.
What I'm objecting to is the instant removal of armour (i.e. as a single action). RAW, that would contradict the doff armour rules and be inconsistent with the written effect of the spell.I apologise if I come across daft. I'm a bit like that. I also like a good argument, so please don't take offence if I'm somewhat...forthright.
Please be aware; when it comes to 5ed D&D, I own Core (1st printing) and SCAG only. All my opinions and rulings are based solely on those, unless otherwise stated. I reserve the right of ignorance of errata or any other source.
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2020-08-09, 09:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: RAW, would Telekenesis allow you to Strip off an enemy's armour?
Are you going to mention these worn items? Can't think of any without forming in the realm of magic.
And yeah, fire damage doesn't mention that because it applies to everything then comes the creature that is resistant to that (or immune, or vulnerable).
And uhm, I have to admit that this is arguable- I see it as the rule for how armors work in generale, then comes that one specific spell.
Curses homewever are way more specific, since they are related to that one item. That's not really arguable.
It can't exert force, and yet it can yank items out of people by force. Well, to be fair, it's by magic compared to the other's strenght.
And to recover someone's question which you ignored:
How are you pulling the pendant from the person without fine manipulation being already there? If I'm pulling it towards me and I'm not higher then you are, how is it coming to me without breaking if you're wearing it? It needs to come off by passing around your head and away regardless of the direction.
An armor getting pulled needs to come off somehow, RAW.
And if the answers keep on being the same, I'm going to have to agree to disagree (since it's obvious neither is convincing the other when the answers are equal)
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2020-08-09, 09:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: RAW, would Telekenesis allow you to Strip off an enemy's armour?
Already mentioned armour and cursed items...that's multiple. I don't require more.
And yeah, fire damage doesn't mention that because it applies to everything then comes the creature that is resistant to that (or immune, or vulnerable).
And to recover someone's question which you ignored:
How are you pulling the pendant from the person without fine manipulation being already there? If I'm pulling it towards me and I'm not higher then you are, how is it coming to me without breaking if you're wearing it? It needs to come off by passing around your head and away regardless of the direction.
An armor getting pulled needs to come off somehow, RAW.
And if the answers keep on being the same, I'm going to have to agree to disagree (since it's obvious neither is convincing the other when the answers are equal)
RAW, Telekinesis does not explicitly exempt the doff armour rule, which is a specific rule governing the removal of worn armour, nor can it break an item in order to circumvent said rule. Therefore, RAW, Telekinesis is not capable of performing the OPs proposed use of the spell.I apologise if I come across daft. I'm a bit like that. I also like a good argument, so please don't take offence if I'm somewhat...forthright.
Please be aware; when it comes to 5ed D&D, I own Core (1st printing) and SCAG only. All my opinions and rulings are based solely on those, unless otherwise stated. I reserve the right of ignorance of errata or any other source.
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2020-08-09, 10:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: RAW, would Telekenesis allow you to Strip off an enemy's armour?
Wait, I got a question.
Let's say I wear a jacket with buttons that go through holes.
And it's buttoned.
How are you pulling it off without breaking it? Let's remember that the one using Telekinesis either moves the object or manipulates it.
Pants closed with a belt. How are you pulling the pants down and away while the person is wearing them if they are tightened with the belt and tecnically if somebody doesn't raise their feet the pants are at most on the ground if they can't prone the creature (which Telekinesis doesn't allow you to do together with an object).
Let's say boots. Are you pulling them away without taking them off? Pretty hard to do the latter by just pulling them.
RAW, all those things don't matter- you simply pull them away. With your interpretation (can't break them et all) this can't happen. For the jacket, you'd first need to unbotton every single button.
And if you can do all those things RAW while pulling, then you can pull an armor away with an action. Somehow those straps came undone like the buttons did.
My interpretation holds true for any example given (wanna pull an item away? It's magic, it works) while yours doesn't (It takes time to get it all undone? A jacket would need to be undone too, that's a given?)