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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Into the Spider-verse 2 and other Spider-man media

    My big take-away from the Mulan thread was that no one knows Into the Spider-verse 2 is coming. For those interested, it started production back in June. What does everyone want to see in it?

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    Default Re: Into the Spider-verse 2 and other Spider-man media

    I think everyone knew Spider-verse 2 was coming immediately after seeing the first one (also IIRC they're doing a Spider-Gwen solo movie).

    Anyway, what we all want to see in it is additional spider-people. They already teased Miguel O'Hara/Spider-Man 2099. Maybe they could have Takuya Yamashiro/Toei Spiderman as well. Also Spiders-Man.

    It would be nice if they found a nice solo face-off for Spider-Man Noir in this one as well. In the original he didn't really get to shine in a one-on-one fight.

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    Default Re: Into the Spider-verse 2 and other Spider-man media

    Spider-Man was formative for me since I was born in the mid 80s and thus as a child I grew up in the 90s during the heyday of the 90s cartoon and peak 90s creative art style 90s comic.

    Yet during the 00s and 10s Spider-Man lost some of the magic. I adore some of the aspects of the Sam Raimi and the Garfield Spider-Mans (can not remember who directed Garfield) but it was not the same. Likewise I could not sync well with 00s and 10s Spider-Man comics.

    [There is some exceptions to this. Ultimate 1610 Peter had a very good run.]

    —————

    Into the Spider-Verse, Miles Morales, and Spider-Gwen are different. They captured the childhood energy and wonder I had two decades long ago. I will protect my baby with Miles Morales, I am proud of my Spider-Gwen!

    Spoiler: This is my feels.
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    Default Re: Into the Spider-verse 2 and other Spider-man media

    I would have liked to see something closer to the comics event and some involvement with the "main" Spiderman, though I understand why that would be tricky from an IP standpoint. One of the most interesting aspects of the comic Spiderverse event was how meeting so many "path not taken" Peter Parkers (as well as the non-Peter Spiders) prompted the 616 version to reflect on his own life and choices. I suppose the MCU Spider-man is also far too early in his life/career for this encounter to make for an interesting story, though.

    For the second movie, I'm hoping for some higher stakes just justify the crossover event. Maybe not necessarily Morlun, but the first movie felt a bit like the Web Warriors comic series: Some standard-issue villain stumbles into something multiverse related, so a bunch of fan-favorites from the Spiderverse event have an excuse to hang out again. That's not really a criticism--it was a great movie on its own merits, and I think having the plot structured the way it was made it much more accessible to a general audience. However, I don't know if you can sustain a continuing series of sequels without a stronger narrative element to bring everyone together again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    Spider-Man was formative for me since I was born in the mid 80s and thus as a child I grew up in the 90s during the heyday of the 90s cartoon and peak 90s creative art style 90s comic.

    Yet during the 00s and 10s Spider-Man lost some of the magic. I adore some of the aspects of the Sam Raimi and the Garfield Spider-Mans (can not remember who directed Garfield) but it was not the same. Likewise I could not sync well with 00s and 10s Spider-Man comics.
    I generally liked everything that came out since we hit peak-Spider-man--even the worst Spider-man movies still set the bar pretty high compared to your typical genre movie from before--but the first two Sony franchises had their flaws. Toby Mcguire played a compelling Peter Parker but never really embraced the way Peter lets some of the more repressed aspects of his personality free when he puts on the mask. Also, icky organic web-shooters. Andrew Garfield was basically always Spider-man--he was much more of a loner by choice than the comics' insecure, geeky outcast, so when he put on the mask to become the confident, wisecracking hero, it similarly failed to capture the transformative nature of becoming Spider-man. Despite taking extreme liberties with the traditional cast of supporting characters, the MCU version has been much more true to the spirit of the comics.

    Speaking of which, the comics were definitely in a weird place for a while, especially for people who grew up on the cartoons. Pretty much every animated (or other popular adaptation, for that matter) has focused on retelling the early period of Peter's life: Flash bullying him, Harry still around and living in his father's shadow, Gwen either alive, recently gone, or never having existed since the producers didn't trust kids to deal with death, and of course Peter's a struggling photographer and either still living with Aunt May, or very recently moved out.

    By the time we get to 2000 or so, we've had a ton of story progression, because it's Marvel, and as much as we live the spirit of that original period, it's very hard to stay invested if our favorite characters don't grow and their actions don't continue to shape the world around them. Peter's simply too brilliant and dedicated not to have some career advancement. After four or five decades of the "I can't get out of this dead-end freelance job because Spider-man responsibilities are always interrupting" excuse, it's hard to keep buying it, especially as we see so many other heroes without his natural talents doing a much better job of having a civilian life. In universe, Peter Parker is supposed to have an intellect and scientific aptitude on par with Reed Richards or Tony Stark, yet he didn't have their level of accomplishment. In fact, a ton of superheroes without Peter's intelligence or his support network manage to balance a secret superhero identity, family obligations, and a much more successful career.

    So it's natural that eventually, somebody who recognized Peter's talents--and maybe understood why he seemed so flaky at times--would give him a chance to do something more meaningful when the costume's off, and you end up with Peter Parker working for Tony Stark, living in Avengers Tower with Aunt May and MJ. From a narrative perspective, this (or any of a number of other possibilities) made far more sense than Peter forever stagnating in life, but thanks to all those decades spent in the early era and all of those retellings of that era, it just doesn't feel like Spider-man the way it did when he was struggling to pay rent by taking pictures of himself fighting crime. The controversial vigilante unfairly maligned by the media plays into the scrappy underdog narrative far better than the respected Avenger who's on Captain America's speed-dial. Part of what makes so many identify with Spider-man is that life isn't always kind to him and that he struggles to find his place in the world, while a big part of the wish-fulfillment aspect comes from the fact that Peter's underdog status don't stem from a lack of ability (spider or otherwise), but because he can't ultimately bring himself to use his power to help himself when he could be helping others instead.

    Narrative convention demands that Peter eventually grows from these struggles and overcomes them, while meta-convention demands that Spider-man's stature in the 616 universe reflects his popularity in ours, and that's exactly what kept happening right up until the controversial One More Day story-line. The problem is, as you say, it doesn't have the same magic that you see every time a new version of the story is told to a new generation of fans.
    Last edited by Xyril; 2020-08-09 at 04:09 PM.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Into the Spider-verse 2 and other Spider-man media

    I really enjoyed the 90's Spider-man cartoon, but missed most of the other Spider-man TV shows. Sole exception was the first season of Spectacular Spider-man. I seem to remember enjoying the 90's version more, but I suspect I have some thick nostalgia goggles in place.

    I did really like Spectacular's Sinister Six episode though.

    Spoiler
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    Not only did the Venom symbiote beat down all the bad guys, it even remembered to take pictures of the fight.


    Quote Originally Posted by Xyril View Post
    However, I don't know if you can sustain a continuing series of sequels without a stronger narrative element to bring everyone together again.
    Gotta second this; the 'stay too long and you disintegrate' factor alone kind of discourages casual dimension-hopping.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xyril View Post
    I generally liked everything that came out since we hit peak-Spider-man--even the worst Spider-man movies still set the bar pretty high compared to your typical genre movie from before--but the first two Sony franchises had their flaws. Toby Mcguire played a compelling Peter Parker but never really embraced the way Peter lets some of the more repressed aspects of his personality free when he puts on the mask. Also, icky organic web-shooters.
    Honest Trailers summed it up well I think: "The face of a puppy with the voice of a smaller, less threatening puppy."

    The organic webbing also isn't as useful for narrative purposes IMO. I remember 90's Spider-man frequently running into trouble because the villain of the week broke his web-shooters or he ran out of webbing mid-fight; this was a good way to raise tension in the short term. A villain couldn't do the same to Tobey's Spider-man without breaking his arm, which is...a bit more permanent.

    The webshooters also underline his tech-savviness, which Tobey's version didn't really emphasize.

    Can't comment on Garfield's as I never saw the Amazing movies.

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Into the Spider-verse 2 and other Spider-man media

    I hope that I can watch it honestly! I'm not raining on people's parades cause the movie looks good, but the visual style that, in part, made it such a distinctive and good movie also wrecked havoc on my eyes.

    I think I got..maybe five minutes into it before I had to turn it off. x.x So...I really, REALLY doubt they're going to change it, but I hope its literally more watchable so I can enjoy it.
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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Into the Spider-verse 2 and other Spider-man media

    Quote Originally Posted by Callos_DeTerran View Post
    I hope that I can watch it honestly! I'm not raining on people's parades cause the movie looks good, but the visual style that, in part, made it such a distinctive and good movie also wrecked havoc on my eyes.

    I think I got..maybe five minutes into it before I had to turn it off. x.x So...I really, REALLY doubt they're going to change it, but I hope its literally more watchable so I can enjoy it.
    Did you see it in 3D? I made the mistake of seeing it in 3D in theaters and ended up with a pounding headache by the time it was over.

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    Default Re: Into the Spider-verse 2 and other Spider-man media

    Quote Originally Posted by Kareeah_Indaga View Post
    Did you see it in 3D? I made the mistake of seeing it in 3D in theaters and ended up with a pounding headache by the time it was over.
    I second the "eye hurt" comment: it wasn't bad enough to make me stop watching, but there was definitely this sense of base discomfort throughout the movie. And I think I watched the non-3d version b/c it was cheaper.

    Of course, this is coming from someone who got stomach churns at the IMAX at the Boston Museum of Science, so possibly not the best representation of your average movie-goer.

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    Default Re: Into the Spider-verse 2 and other Spider-man media

    Originally Posted by GloatingSwine
    ...also IIRC they're doing a Spider-Gwen solo movie....
    The most I could find about this is a rumor that it's "in discussion," which doesn't mean much. Given the disruption to Marvel's lineup, this will be years away, if ever.

    Spider-Gwen does appear in the Marvel Rising series, but only as one of a fairly large ensemble.

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Into the Spider-verse 2 and other Spider-man media

    Quote Originally Posted by Kareeah_Indaga View Post
    Did you see it in 3D? I made the mistake of seeing it in 3D in theaters and ended up with a pounding headache by the time it was over.
    I did not, I've only tried to watch it on Netflix.
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    "These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."

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    Default Re: Into the Spider-verse 2 and other Spider-man media

    I think they should introduce Morlun and the Inheritors. They've been totally unexplored in films so far so they're fresh, and they fit like a charm with the Spider-verse theme and cross-over of multiple Spider-people (two of the ones in the first film come from the Spider-verse comic storyline, namely Spider-Gwen and Peni Parker).
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    Default Re: Into the Spider-verse 2 and other Spider-man media

    I would just like a chance to see more of the Spider-Man from Miles' universe. Get a chance to know more about his life, and really see the people that survived him. His version of Aunt May in particular seems really cool. The one big flaw, and yes there absolutely was one, in Spiderverse was the feeling like all of Peter's family members just seemed to move on an unnatural way and I would like to see some more there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonus45 View Post
    I would just like a chance to see more of the Spider-Man from Miles' universe. Get a chance to know more about his life, and really see the people that survived him. His version of Aunt May in particular seems really cool. The one big flaw, and yes there absolutely was one, in Spiderverse was the feeling like all of Peter's family members just seemed to move on an unnatural way and I would like to see some more there.
    If you haven't already, you should consider reading the last bit of the Ultimate Peter Parker Spider-man and the first half or so of the Ultimate Miles Morales period, if you haven't already. They do a pretty good job of unpacking the impact of his death on his supporting cast, as well as the heroes he had substantial interactions with. Unlike the MCU or the 616 comics continuity, Spider-man wasn't an important Avenger who's had repeat team-ups with everyone from Daredevil to Deadpool, but he did have meaningful relationships with a few other A-list heroes, including a fun echo of the Spiderman and his Amazing Friends cartoon.

    It would have been nice to see something like that on the big screen, but given the time limitations of the format and all of the world-building that had to be done in a hurry for a mainly casual target audience, it's understandable that they couldn't. This was the story of Miles and the other Spiders, and not (that) Peter Parker. His death and extremely brief mentorship was important primarily as the impetus that set Miles on his hero's path (and an example to the other Peter Parker as to how he could get his own life back on track), but his life wasn't the focus of this particular story.

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    Default Re: Into the Spider-verse 2 and other Spider-man media

    Sidenote a recent marvel podcast reminded me of Spider-Man 2 and the scene where Peter Parker tells Aunt May that he is "kind of" responsible for Uncle Ben's death, and Peter reaches out for Aunt May and she pulls away, gets up out of her chair and leaves the room.

    See that one scene makes Aunt May > Uncle Tony Stark (referring to Captain America 3: Civil War where when Tony learns who murdered his parents, he kind of went "crazy.")

    -----

    I now wonder what would happen if Doc Ock of Spider-Man 2 was recruited by Nick Fury due to his clean energy fusion device instead of Tony Stark (aka something similar to the Arc Reactor.)

    I now wonder what would happen if Aunt May had tech based superpowers and was best friends with Captain America. [Specifically Rosemary Harris / Sam Raimi’s version of Spider-Man's Aunt May, but in the larger MCU.) I want to see those stories! Please make it happen Disney
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    Default Re: Into the Spider-verse 2 and other Spider-man media

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    I now wonder what would happen if Doc Ock of Spider-Man 2 was recruited by Nick Fury due to his clean energy fusion device instead of Tony Stark (aka something similar to the Arc Reactor.)
    I really liked Alfred Molina's version. He was essentially a decent guy who got corrupted by a combination of the accident compromising his mind somewhat and circumstances really kicking him in the teeth. I think he would have made a much more interesting perpetually-recurring villain (and Superior) in the comics.

    The comics overall did a great job with Superior Spider-man, especially with how Otto's many flaws undermined his efforts at legitimate reform/heroics. However, I think the comic version, where Otto had a ton of serious personality defects that made him thoroughly unpleasant and unlikable even before he became a villain, made him a less compelling character. He's held up as an A-list member of Spidey's rogues gallery, but I've never liked him as much as the others, who all felt more balanced somehow. Norman, for example, both in print and on screen was ruthless and a terrible father--even before his goblin psychopathy--but it was balanced charisma and a genuine capacity to feel fatherly affection towards people (just maybe not Harry.) His descent from Neutral Jerkish to Evil Crazy felt like a believable transformation, but not the only plausible outcome. Otto felt like that coworker nobody likes who never achieves the success he feels entitled to because he's talented, but not nearly as talented as he believes, and Doc Ock seemed like the same guy, except his coworkers are fellow supervillains. Plus, he keeps doing things I find implausible based on his characterization... i.e., he semi-successfully dates Aunt May, and forms the original Sinister Six, but he just doesn't seem to have the leadership or interpersonal skills to pull either off.

    I now wonder what would happen if Aunt May had tech based superpowers and was best friends with Captain America. [Specifically Rosemary Harris / Sam RaimiÂ’s version of Spider-Man's Aunt May, but in the larger MCU.) I want to see those stories! Please make it happen Disney
    There was a comic where a younger Aunt May built a suit and became the tech-based Lady Spider (in an older setting, I want to say Victorian or maybe noir.) I haven't been able to find it in my collection, but I would guess it's a What If. It might have been a Spider-verse one shot, but I think they would have had Peter interacting with her, and I can't remember seeing that happen.

    I googled to check that she's real and not just a fever dream I had, and she is, but the citations didn't name the original source material, and the first two links I clicked were pop-up cancer, but if you're interested, just google Lady Spider - May Reilly and hopefully you'll get there.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Into the Spider-verse 2 and other Spider-man media

    Quote Originally Posted by Xyril View Post
    There was a comic where a younger Aunt May built a suit and became the tech-based Lady Spider (in an older setting, I want to say Victorian or maybe noir.) I haven't been able to find it in my collection, but I would guess it's a What If. It might have been a Spider-verse one shot, but I think they would have had Peter interacting with her, and I can't remember seeing that happen.

    I googled to check that she's real and not just a fever dream I had, and she is, but the citations didn't name the original source material, and the first two links I clicked were pop-up cancer, but if you're interested, just google Lady Spider - May Reilly and hopefully you'll get there.
    *checks wiki*

    This one? The footnote says Spider-verse #1...

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