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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Griffon

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    Default Revivify good? Why?

    I guess the title of the thread is clear enough, but to eleborate: I've never memorized it, seen anybody memorize it, or been in a situation where somebody wanted to be able to cast it. I mean, if a party member goes down, usually this can be fixed before death occurs: either quickly mop up the combat, or (often even better) bonus action heal somebody back into the fight.

    Outside RAW-situations (where yoyo-healing is disallowed), and (ime very rare) situations where somebody gets insta-killed: why would anybody prepare this spell? Or do people are in situations often where a DM finishes off a character that goes down?

    I ask before I think I've seen the spell being mentioned as 'good' several times in discussions, and don't really understand why. I think all character deaths I've seen were in situations where a character knowing Revivify wouldn't have made any difference (either TPK, or a party in full flight with 1 or 2 going down and the rest not able to help due to fleeing themselves, or an unlucky saving throw against petriffication at a level where this is efffectively character death).

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Revivify good? Why?

    I think Revivify is one of those spells like Feather Fall that you don't really need most of the time until suddenly you really need it, especially in the levels before Raise Dead comes online. That said it depends on the table. If your DM tends to have the monsters attack downed characters to finish them off (a fairly sensible tactic in a world where magical healing exists) then it's probably better than if they usually ignore them in favour of the still-standing party members.

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    Default Re: Revivify good? Why?

    I think it's table play style dependant. Revivify is an insurance spell that is nice to have as a "break glass in case of.." option. You could realistically play entire campaigns without ever using it in the next campaign gathering diamond is a constant side goal.
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Revivify good? Why?

    By (late) 5th level, my current party has had three character deaths, only one of which was reversed through a (modified) raise dead by an allied celestial. One death each from massive damage (instant death from a high roll of 8d8 dragon breath), an opponent finishing off a fallen foe, and just laying down on the job (failing 3 death saves before someone could get to them). Revivify would have been nice to have, but our cleric felt much as the OP did, so it wasn't there when needed.

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    Default Re: Revivify good? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by stoutstien View Post
    I think it's table play style dependant. Revivify is an insurance spell that is nice to have as a "break glass in case of.." option. You could realistically play entire campaigns without ever using it in the next campaign gathering diamond is a constant side goal.
    I've had it prepared and held a slot for it since my paladin got 3rd level spells.

    I don't consider it a bad thing that I haven't had to use it yet. I would much rather lose out on a prepared spell just in case rather than the cost of not having it prepared when I would need it.

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    Default Re: Revivify good? Why?

    Any creature with 2 melee attacks can one round kill a downed creature.

    So in fights where someone goes down, there is a decent chance the PC dues before a healer goes.

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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Revivify good? Why?

    I have seen it used on NPCs more than PCs.

    If a PC goes down and actually dies one of the following usually applies:

    1) the rest of the party follows quickly - knowing a spell like fly or invisibility might have helped but this wouldnt.

    2) the party starts to lose people as it's out of resources. Something like a counterspell or more healing would have been better.

    3) The part is at a disadvantage and cant cast spells as they are underwater or in an anti magic field.


    Generally revivify wouldnt help that much.

    That 1 min duration is really tight and stops a lot of stuff that this spell otherwise might help with. Imagine a bridge collapse and the party all takes enough falling damage to reach 0hp. Some time later the cleric is stable and regains consciousness - by then it's too late.

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    Default Re: Revivify good? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrStabby View Post
    I have seen it used on NPCs more than PCs.

    If a PC goes down and actually dies one of the following usually applies:

    1) the rest of the party follows quickly - knowing a spell like fly or invisibility might have helped but this wouldnt.

    2) the party starts to lose people as it's out of resources. Something like a counterspell or more healing would have been better.

    3) The part is at a disadvantage and cant cast spells as they are underwater or in an anti magic field.


    Generally revivify wouldnt help that much.

    That 1 min duration is really tight and stops a lot of stuff that this spell otherwise might help with. Imagine a bridge collapse and the party all takes enough falling damage to reach 0hp. Some time later the cleric is stable and regains consciousness - by then it's too late.
    Clerics don't get counterspell, fly, or invisibility. Maybe or maybe not a Bard shouldn't have it as a spell known, but for a cleric it has its place. Clerics have Healing Word to save off death and Spare The Dying if need be. The healing is there. Clerics are not alone in healing ability. Only the cleric is at risk since he can't cast Revivify on himself. He needs to wait awhile for the Paladin to have his back. If it's a TPK it's not because the cleric has Revivify prepared. If they're underwater they have waterbreathing and can cast spells. If they're in an anti-magic field there's no fly, invisibility, or healing spells either.
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Revivify good? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pex View Post
    Clerics don't get counterspell, fly, or invisibility. Maybe or maybe not a Bard shouldn't have it as a spell known, but for a cleric it has its place. Clerics have Healing Word to save off death and Spare The Dying if need be. The healing is there. Clerics are not alone in healing ability. Only the cleric is at risk since he can't cast Revivify on himself. He needs to wait awhile for the Paladin to have his back. If it's a TPK it's not because the cleric has Revivify prepared. If they're underwater they have waterbreathing and can cast spells. If they're in an anti-magic field there's no fly, invisibility, or healing spells either.
    This is 5e. Cast spells underwater all you like.

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    Default Re: Revivify good? Why?

    I can't count the number of times the party has run away dragging the body of a dead ally behind them.

    I mean, Raise Dead definitely sees more use than Revivify, by a long shot. Because despite what I just wrote, players are prone to not running until it's too late, or not having an exit strategy available to break contact. So yeah, death by TPK or by abandoning the bodies of 3/4 of the party (including the cleric) are more the norm.

    But still, if you want to continue at full strength as opposed to push on one man short, or turn back to town for a Raise Dead and end the session, Revivify is where it's at.

    Quote Originally Posted by stoutstien View Post
    I think it's table play style dependant. Revivify is an insurance spell that is nice to have as a "break glass in case of.." option.
    Quote Originally Posted by HappyDaze View Post
    Revivify would have been nice to have, but our cleric felt much as the OP did, so it wasn't there when needed.
    I can't even imagine the table acrimony if someone died in a one-party table and the cleric didn't have Revivify prepared as a emergency contingency, unless there was a way to otherwise get the character raised.

    That seems like one of the things you should make clear to other players before hand, because they'll make assumptions.

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    Default Re: Revivify good? Why?

    Try having Team Monster use yo-yo healing on a regular basis and see the way the players counter it. Then realize that DMs who aren't coddling / afraid to kill the players will do that to you.

    Generally when people think that yo-yo healing is a catch-all solution it's because they have a DM who's going easy on them, laying off the gas pedal a bit when the players are on the ropes. There are a lot of ways to finish people off.
    Last edited by LudicSavant; 2020-08-09 at 11:09 AM. Reason: Typo
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    Default Re: Revivify good? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanarii View Post

    I can't even imagine the table acrimony if someone died in a one-party table and the cleric didn't have Revivify prepared as a emergency contingency, unless there was a way to otherwise get the character raised.

    That seems like one of the things you should make clear to other players before hand, because they'll make assumptions.
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    Default Re: Revivify good? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by LudicSavant View Post
    Generally when people think that yo-yo healing is a catch-all solution it's because they have a DM who's going easy on them, laying off the gas pedal a bit when the players are on the ropes. There are a lot of ways to finish people off.
    Yup. An intelligent enemy that just saw someone that's gone down pop up again should smash them until they stop moving.

    A lot of players think it's #UNFAIR though.

    Quote Originally Posted by HappyDaze View Post
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Revivify good? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by LudicSavant View Post
    Try having Team Monster use yo-yo healing on a regular basis and see the way the players counter it. Then realize that DMs who aren't coddling / afraid to kill the players will do that to you.

    Generally when people think that yo-yo healing is a catch-all solution it's because they have a DM who's going easy on them, laying off the gas pedal a bit when the players are on the ropes. There are a lot of ways to finish people off.
    Full agreement. Even monsters that are still attacking active opponents can use area effects to tear up downed foes at the same time. The Lizardfolk Render has a nasty ability to make an claw attack against all opponents within 10 feet--whether they're up & fighting or on the ground at 0 hp. Makes them fairly terrifying every time that ability recharges.

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Revivify good? Why?

    Revivify still works up to 1 min after the death so it can be cast after the combat. It is a 3rd level spell that is cheaper than the 5th level spell Raise Dead. All it asks you to do is reserve 1 3rd level slot, 1 prepared spell, and 300gp. That is a rather cheap price to reverse death.

    You are already preparing Healing Word to help prevent death. Revivify just adds the next layer to your defenses. Just like Lesser Restoration, Remove Curse, and Greater Restoration are part of your defenses.

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    Default Re: Revivify good? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pex View Post
    Clerics don't get counterspell, fly, or invisibility. Maybe or maybe not a Bard shouldn't have it as a spell known, but for a cleric it has its place. Clerics have Healing Word to save off death and Spare The Dying if need be. The healing is there. Clerics are not alone in healing ability. Only the cleric is at risk since he can't cast Revivify on himself. He needs to wait awhile for the Paladin to have his back. If it's a TPK it's not because the cleric has Revivify prepared. If they're underwater they have waterbreathing and can cast spells. If they're in an anti-magic field there's no fly, invisibility, or healing spells either.
    There was no requirement in the OP for a class so I was discussing the spell not the class.

    It could be a cleric this pertains to but also a bard or a sorcerer or maybe a homebrew class or something like the theurge from UA.

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    DruidGirl

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    Default Re: Revivify good? Why?

    It's super useful if someone has Gentle Repose, because a part of Gentle Repose states that it extends the period of time someone can be brought back from life.

    So as long as you have both Gentle Repose and Revivify, Revivify is 200 less gold than Raise Dead, and is 2 spell levels lower than Raise Dead. And there's nothing preventing you from re-casting Gentle Repose before it runs out to further extend the time you can revive the target.

    I have seen Revivify used on a party member, in fact it was a situation where 2 party members died and it could only be cast on one of them due to us only having enough gold for 1 rez.

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    Default Re: Revivify good? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by elyktsorb View Post
    It's super useful if someone has Gentle Repose, because a part of Gentle Repose states that it extends the period of time someone can be brought back from life.

    So as long as you have both Gentle Repose and Revivify, Revivify is 200 less gold than Raise Dead, and is 2 spell levels lower than Raise Dead. And there's nothing preventing you from re-casting Gentle Repose before it runs out to further extend the time you can revive the target.

    I have seen Revivify used on a party member, in fact it was a situation where 2 party members died and it could only be cast on one of them due to us only having enough gold for 1 rez.
    Yeah, that's a good point.

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    Default Re: Revivify good? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by HappyDaze View Post
    Full agreement. Even monsters that are still attacking active opponents can use area effects to tear up downed foes at the same time. The Lizardfolk Render has a nasty ability to make an claw attack against all opponents within 10 feet--whether they're up & fighting or on the ground at 0 hp. Makes them fairly terrifying every time that ability recharges.
    It took me a minute to realize that the whole point of the gnoll's rampage ability was to use the bonus attack on the character they'd just downed to instantly raise the stakes.

    Anyway, it's not *that* hard to kill characters. Revivify isn't great for spells known casters, but for a cleric it's a nice insurance policy.

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    Default Re: Revivify good? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by loki_ragnarock View Post
    It took me a minute to realize that the whole point of the gnoll's rampage ability was to use the bonus attack on the character they'd just downed to instantly raise the stakes.

    Anyway, it's not *that* hard to kill characters. Revivify isn't great for spells known casters, but for a cleric it's a nice insurance policy.
    If the cleric is always going to take it as insurance, then why is worse for a spells known caster to select it?

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    Default Re: Revivify good? Why?

    I'd argue that revivify is best taken on the character that usually is not the primary source of recovery. So the artificer or paladin are good candidates because they are both likely to still be alive after SHTF and while the spell slot is a higher opportunity cost on a 1/2 caster than a full caster they can run smoothly even completely out of slots. The bard dropping AoV is an amazing plan until the NPCs decide that focus on the healer is the best strategy and even as tough as PCs can be RNG can spoke damage and 3 failed death ST is practically guaranteed if you have enough mooks running around.
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    Default Re: Revivify good? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by elyktsorb View Post
    It's super useful if someone has Gentle Repose, because a part of Gentle Repose states that it extends the period of time someone can be brought back from life.

    So as long as you have both Gentle Repose and Revivify, Revivify is 200 less gold than Raise Dead, and is 2 spell levels lower than Raise Dead. And there's nothing preventing you from re-casting Gentle Repose before it runs out to further extend the time you can revive the target.
    You have to prepare Gentle Repose and use a slot though. If you cast as a Ritual, it takes 10 minutes. I found it was far more common for it to be a Wizard or Tome Warlock ritual used to preserve the body for a Raise Dead, when there's no guarantee the PCs can get to a high enough cleric in 10 days.

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    Default Re: Revivify good? Why?

    For one thing, prepared casters tend to have more preparation slots than spells-known casters have known slots (especially when you consider that clerics, at least, have spells that are automatically prepared).
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    Default Re: Revivify good? Why?

    Okay remember that raise dead has that whole.

    “-4 penalty to all Attack rolls, Saving Throws, and Ability Checks. Every time the target finishes a Long Rest, the penalty is reduced by 1 until it disappears.“
    This means it takes four days for a PC to be back in top shape.
    Revivify has no such drawback, IÂ’ve seen PCÂ’s die get revivified and are ready to fight again after a short rest.

    So any cleric capable of casting raise dead is doing the party a disservice by not preparing revivify just in case.
    Nale is no more, he has ceased to be, his hit points have dropped to negative ten, all he was is now dust in the wind, he is not Daniel Jackson dead, he is not Kenny dead, he is final dead, he will not pass through death's revolving door, his fate will not be undone because the executives renewed his show for another season. His time had run out, his string of fate has been cut, the blood on the knife has been wiped. He is an Ex-Nale! Now can we please resume watching the Order save the world.

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    Default Re: Revivify good? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanarii View Post
    If you cast as a Ritual, it takes 10 minutes.
    No problem. The most skilled healers can easily foresee their friends' deaths 10 minutes in advance!

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    Default Re: Revivify good? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by HappyDaze View Post
    The Lizardfolk Render has a nasty ability to make an claw attack against all opponents within 10 feet--whether they're up & fighting or on the ground at 0 hp. Makes them fairly terrifying every time that ability recharges.
    yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldTrees1 View Post
    Revivify still works up to 1 min after the death so it can be cast after the combat. It is a 3rd level spell that is cheaper than the 5th level spell Raise Dead. All it asks you to do is reserve 1 3rd level slot, 1 prepared spell, and 300gp. That is a rather cheap price to reverse death.
    And, Life Domain Clerics have it always prepared. My only requirement is that each other character carry on their person (I prefer it on a necklace that hides the gem under their shirt/blouse/cloak/robe) a 300 GP diamond. If they have the diamond, I can lay revivify on them right away. Done it three time.

    I like the spell so much that I made sure that my Warlock(Celestial) keeps it as one of her spells.

    The second dragon breath after your party wizard drops due to failing the save on the first one is an easy way to need Revivify. Well, two of three in my experience. The other was a pair of crits from a giant when the PC was at low health. Giants Hit Hard, and Giants Crit Harder.
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2020-08-09 at 02:17 PM.
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    Default Re: Revivify good? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanarii View Post
    Yup. An intelligent enemy that just saw someone that's gone down pop up again should smash them until they stop moving.

    A lot of players think it's #UNFAIR though.


    😂😂😂
    Not unfair. Unfun. Realistically, yes, it makes sense for the bad guys to attack the downed PC. "As Coroner I must aver, I thoroughly examined her. And she's not only merely dead, she's really most sincerely dead." It's not fun for a PC to die every session or someone has to make a new character. It's not DM coddling. It's playing the game.

    Obligatory: No, this does not mean no PC should ever die.
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    Default Re: Revivify good? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanarii View Post
    You have to prepare Gentle Repose and use a slot though. If you cast as a Ritual, it takes 10 minutes. I found it was far more common for it to be a Wizard or Tome Warlock ritual used to preserve the body for a Raise Dead, when there's no guarantee the PCs can get to a high enough cleric in 10 days.
    There's actually a lot more benefit to having Gentle Repose than Revivify, as Gentle Repose can work within two effect windows (Revivify or Raise Dead) when Revivify only has one, it has a level 2 spell slot instead of a level 3, and there's always the chance that you'll find something to use it on Gentle Repose on as a Ritual that Revivify couldn't have helped with.

    The only time preemptively preparing Revivify would be better is if you were in a situation where you had to continue on if one of your players died (as opposed to retreating for a day and reviving them the following morning).


    Boom, that's why it's worth to have Gentle Repose: Because it's a lot less useless than an unused and prepared Revivify, for roughly the same effect.
    Last edited by Man_Over_Game; 2020-08-09 at 02:44 PM.
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    Default Re: Revivify good? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pex View Post
    Not unfair. Unfun. Realistically, yes, it makes sense for the bad guys to attack the downed PC. "As Coroner I must aver, I thoroughly examined her. And she's not only merely dead, she's really most sincerely dead." It's not fun for a PC to die every session or someone has to make a new character. It's not DM coddling. It's playing the game.

    Obligatory: No, this does not mean no PC should ever die.
    Granted it can be unfun, and understood on the caveat.

    Especially true in a single party campaign where being returned to life or generating a new character is a major in-game chore / adventure path derailer.

    That's more unfun than say having an open table and a stable of characters to choose from, and sending in a body-recovery party after a TPK so you can raise them is all part of the fun and games. Or successfully pulling out with a dead body is followed by paying gold for a raise at the local town between sessions, and returning in the next session for round 2.

    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post
    The only time preemptively preparing Revivify would be better is if you were in a situation where you had to continue on if one of your players died (as opposed to retreating for a day and reviving them the following morning).

    Boom, that's why it's worth to have Gentle Repose: Because it's a lot less useless than an unused and prepared Revivify, for roughly the same effect.
    Yup. If you can retreat instead of pushing on, and have access to Raise Dead when you retreat, Revivify loses a lot of its value.

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    Default Re: Revivify good? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post
    There's actually a lot more benefit to having Gentle Repose than Revivify, as Gentle Repose can work within two effect windows (Revivify or Raise Dead) when Revivify only has one, it has a level 2 spell slot instead of a level 3, and there's always the chance that you'll find something to use it on Gentle Repose on as a Ritual that Revivify couldn't have helped with.

    The only time preemptively preparing Revivify would be better is if you were in a situation where you had to continue on if one of your players died (as opposed to retreating for a day and reviving them the following morning).


    Boom, that's why it's worth to have Gentle Repose: Because it's a lot less useless than an unused and prepared Revivify, for roughly the same effect.
    Gentle Repose does make it a bit difficult to move the body though, the copper piece having to stay on each eye is already a hurdle but it becomes more difficult if you consider the pinch of salt to also be something that must remain on the corpse's eye for the duration.

    For Raise Dead this isn't much of an issue, move the body then cast the spell, you've got plenty of time. For Revivify, sure you can, but you probably would have been better off having Revivify handy instead since you'd have to have cast the spell pretty immediately, bringing up that "moving the body" issue.

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