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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2014

    Default Elven Accuracy on a Straight Roll

    Let me set a situation.

    I'm a half elf rogue with sneak attack and elven accuracy.
    My buddy is a warlock with devil sight.
    We're fighting a warlock also with devil sight who drops a darkness on us not realising my buddy can see.
    My buddy knowing i do more damage uses help.
    Next i attack.

    By RAW i get advantage on the roll from help and disadvantage because i cant see my target so i roll a single D20

    Now i technically have disadvantage (but its counteracted by advantage) so i don't get sneak attack.

    However i technically have advantage (counteracted by the disadvantage) so could i reroll the D20 if i wanted to?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2007

    Default Re: Elven Accuracy on a Straight Roll

    Quote Originally Posted by Rev666 View Post
    Let me set a situation.

    I'm a half elf rogue with sneak attack and elven accuracy.
    My buddy is a warlock with devil sight.
    We're fighting a warlock also with devil sight who drops a darkness on us not realising my buddy can see.
    My buddy knowing i do more damage uses help.
    Next i attack.

    By RAW i get advantage on the roll from help and disadvantage because i cant see my target so i roll a single D20

    Now i technically have disadvantage (but its counteracted by advantage) so i don't get sneak attack.

    However i technically have advantage (counteracted by the disadvantage) so could i reroll the D20 if i wanted to?
    No.
    Because you don’t technically have advantage. They cancel each other out so neither condition applies to you. Straight roll.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Lord Vukodlak's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007

    Default Re: Elven Accuracy on a Straight Roll

    Quote Originally Posted by Rev666 View Post
    Let me set a situation.

    I'm a half elf rogue with sneak attack and elven accuracy.
    My buddy is a warlock with devil sight.
    We're fighting a warlock also with devil sight who drops a darkness on us not realising my buddy can see.
    My buddy knowing i do more damage uses help.
    Next i attack.

    By RAW i get advantage on the roll from help and disadvantage because i cant see my target so i roll a single D20

    Now i technically have disadvantage (but its counteracted by advantage) so i don't get sneak attack.

    However i technically have advantage (counteracted by the disadvantage) so could i reroll the D20 if i wanted to?
    Advantage and disadvantage cancel one another out. You have neither.
    Nale is no more, he has ceased to be, his hit points have dropped to negative ten, all he was is now dust in the wind, he is not Daniel Jackson dead, he is not Kenny dead, he is final dead, he will not pass through death's revolving door, his fate will not be undone because the executives renewed his show for another season. His time had run out, his string of fate has been cut, the blood on the knife has been wiped. He is an Ex-Nale! Now can we please resume watching the Order save the world.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Oct 2016

    Default Re: Elven Accuracy on a Straight Roll

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikal View Post
    No.
    Because you don’t technically have advantage. They cancel each other out so neither condition applies to you. Straight roll.
    then he can still get sneak attack (if other conditions are met)?
    Quote Originally Posted by MaxWilson View Post
    Just, please don't. Insisting on that technicality improves nothing.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2013

    Default Re: Elven Accuracy on a Straight Roll

    Quote Originally Posted by NaughtyTiger View Post
    then he can still get sneak attack (if other conditions are met)?
    By raw, this is my reading. By RAI ... who knows, probably yes too, even if it doesn’t make sense in this case lol. But this version of dnd is even less simulation than others so ... making sense isn’t a priority, just ‘nice to have’ lol.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2007

    Default Re: Elven Accuracy on a Straight Roll

    Quote Originally Posted by NaughtyTiger View Post
    then he can still get sneak attack (if other conditions are met)?
    He doesn't have disadvantage so as long as he meets other qualifications (another enemy within 5 ft. of the target, mainly), yes.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2017

    Default Re: Elven Accuracy on a Straight Roll

    Quote Originally Posted by NaughtyTiger View Post
    then he can still get sneak attack (if other conditions are met)?
    Yes.

    Advantage and disadvantage cancel. You don't have both, the rules specifically state that in cases where they cancel you have neither.

    In this case, a rogue obviously can not get advantage no matter how many circumstances of it there might be, however, they also don't have disadvantage. This means that they may still sneak attack if other conditions for fulfilling it are met (like having another opponent of the target within 5' of the target).

    P.S. I don't see what the relevance of Elven Accuracy is to the question though ...
    Last edited by Keravath; 2020-08-10 at 12:29 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Sep 2013

    Default Re: Elven Accuracy on a Straight Roll

    Quote Originally Posted by Keravath View Post
    Yes.

    Advantage and disadvantage cancel. You don't have both, the rules specifically state that in cases where they cancel you have neither.

    In this case, a rogue obviously can not get advantage no matter how many circumstances of it there might be, however, they also don't have disadvantage. This means that they may still sneak attack if other conditions for fulfilling it are met (like having another opponent of the target within 5' of the target).

    P.S. I don't see what the relevance of Elven Accuracy is to the question though ...
    By my recollection, EA would be a source of Advamtage for an attack using the Help Action to as a condition if Advantage is needed.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2007

    Default Re: Elven Accuracy on a Straight Roll

    Quote Originally Posted by Mith View Post
    By my recollection, EA would be a source of Advamtage for an attack using the Help Action to as a condition if Advantage is needed.
    Except that as soon as you have one source of disadvantage the types of advantage you get additionally don't matter (including additional reroll from elven advantage)

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Sep 2013

    Default Re: Elven Accuracy on a Straight Roll

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikal View Post
    Except that as soon as you have one source of disadvantage the types of advantage you get additionally don't matter (including additional reroll from elven advantage)
    That is true. I was going on the basis of "why would one cosider EA".

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Composer99's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2013

    Default Re: Elven Accuracy on a Straight Roll

    Quote Originally Posted by Rev666 View Post
    Let me set a situation.

    I'm a half elf rogue with sneak attack and elven accuracy.
    My buddy is a warlock with devil sight.
    We're fighting a warlock also with devil sight who drops a darkness on us not realising my buddy can see.
    My buddy knowing i do more damage uses help.
    Next i attack.

    By RAW i get advantage on the roll from help and disadvantage because i cant see my target so i roll a single D20

    Now i technically have disadvantage (but its counteracted by advantage) so i don't get sneak attack.

    However i technically have advantage (counteracted by the disadvantage) so could i reroll the D20 if i wanted to?
    You do not "technically" have either advantage or disadvantage. You just have neither.

    In this case, you can sneak attack as long as a creature hostile to your target is within 5 feet of your target and isn't incapacitated and you are using a finesse or ranged weapon. You can't, however, benefit from elven accuracy.
    ~ Composer99

    D&D 5e Campaign:
    Adventures in Eaphandra

    D&D 5e Homebrew:
    This can be found in my extended homebrew signature!

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2017

    Default Re: Elven Accuracy on a Straight Roll

    Quote Originally Posted by Mith View Post
    By my recollection, EA would be a source of Advamtage for an attack using the Help Action to as a condition if Advantage is needed.
    EA doesn't give advantage. IF a character already has advantage on an attack roll AND they have the Elven Advantage feat then they can choose to re-roll one of the two die they rolled for advantage.

    If you don't have advantage from some specific source ... Elven Advantage doesn't do anything.

    In the case of a character with conditions that would provide both advantage and disadvantage on a die roll ... they are considered to have neither so again Elven Advantage does not apply.
    Last edited by Keravath; 2020-08-11 at 04:07 PM.

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