Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2019

    Default Help me rationalize magic and its history

    So I'm trying to dig in to where magic comes from. So far I still am not satisfied, look it over and tell me what needs more polish or rethinking. Here is what I have so far (TL;DR below):

    *Skippable*
    • The Mundane plain came to be when the Elemental Plains (EP) crashed into each other like tectonic plates and bounced off each other. This is the settings big bang.

    • In the space left by the planes bouncing off each other was a void. Elementals leaked into that void. They mindlessly consumed like-typed elementals, some growing into massive Titans, and slaughtered unlike-typed.

    •As the EP drifted further apart, the Astral Plane filled the gap, cutting of the elementals trapped on the Mundane Plain. These elementals died out over billions of years and their essence became the world's of the galaxy. On the world of Mundas, like many other worlds, the essences of the Titan Elementals have separated like oil, Fire on the bottom surrounded by Earth, covered by Water, and wrapped by Air on top.

    *Where things get fuzzy*
    •Magic comes from The Source, I think stars and the sun might be portals into the Source? Magic permeates Mundas (the setting world) kinda like radiation?

    •Every living thing is infused with Source. It might be a soul, a spirit, a mind, an animus, or consciousness, but what ever they name it, all things have it. The degree to which they have it varies from individual to individual.

    • Sorcerers can tap directly into the Source. The Dragons, the oldest race, were the first Sorcerers. They used this power to subjugate the other races.

    • The Orcs were able to channel the power of the greatest reservoir of the Source, Mundas itself, like a lightning rod. They used this new "Druidic" magic to resist subjugation by the Dragons.

    • Humans, having less Source than Dragons and lacking the secret of using the planets Source like the Druids, are enslaved by dragons. In their adversity they discover "Bardic" magic. Bards were able to borrow Source from those they achieved an emotional resonance with, "touch their soul". They could use this to supplement their own Source, and do magic, or even redirect the slow of Source back into an individual making them "inspired".

    • Giants, the other great Sorcerers, fought a pyrrhic war of attrition with the Dragons. Then the surviving dragons fought amongst themselves when Bahamut and his metallic disciples claimed Humans had a soul (access to the Source) and thus need be freed. After Bahamut's death and Ascension, Divine Magic came into being.

    • Cleric's are just Bards on a larger scale. Their magic is more refined and typically more potent than a bards, because of the specific emotional resonance and the sheer volume of it as they draw upon the Source of those that believe as they do. Most Cleric's believe that their power comes from a deity but that isn't true. Sometimes, however, when enough Source is dedicated to an idea that idea comes into being. Gods are created when enough people belive in them and grow more powerful as more Source is dedicated to them.

    • Source is also called Ki. Monks are able to discipline themselves that they can control the source in their own bodies. They can redirect they source inside themselves to amplify their bodies abilities. Paladins do something similar, but use will rather than discipline.

    • Psions are the natural evolution of the Source. They refine the Source to fuel the mind and express their will.

    •When Elves came to Mundas they brought with them Wizardry. In their wandering the Elves have settled in my planes, including those with no Source. In such places they had to create a substitute. This is what a wizard does. They create an alternate Source to draw from. Even those who have a weak Source can become a Wizard or Artificers with enough practice. Elves have shared Wizardry with the races that they prefer to work with.

    •Warlocks borrow or steal Source from another, more powerful, creature.

    TLDR: Magic is fire, Sorcerers are made of a **** ton of coal. Bards are able to borrow coal from those that vibe with them, adding it to their own meager pile of coal. Clerics are like bards but with a coal pyramid scheme. Paladins and Monks can control their own coal to power particular things that people otherwise couldn't do. Psions say "**** this coal I'm gonna press it into a dimond" and shape reality with their dimond chisel. Druids mine coal from the earth. Wizards and Artificers don't bother with coal and just burn whatever they can find or create alternative fuels.


    It helped to type all this out, but I'd like to hear what you guys think, or hear what you did in your setting.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2017

    Default Re: Help me rationalize magic and its history

    Here's where things get fuzzy, as I read it:
    What is Source? What sorts of things affect Source? Where is it, and how does it flow from place to place? There's an intent in your structure that all magic is based on the same fundamental energy, but it seems to me that the energy currently too simple or too vague to properly encompass all the different casting types; adding more layers to Source will help you significantly by giving you more levers by which to explain where magic comes from.

    For example, how does a Wizard create an alternate Source? What sort of process does that require? How can a plane have no Source at all, if every living thing is infused with Source? (Incidentally, what's the position of undead in this system? Do they even exist?)

    Some questions can remain unanswered if nobody in-setting would be able to know the answer, and that finding the answer could be an adventure on its own. Why is Mundus a viable reservoir of Source, if it's only present in living creatures? That would be an excellent adventure!

    Some things that might need elaboration:
    -The link between bards and clerics is very good, but the position of gods needs to be clarified; some clerics worship gods and some don't? If there are both real and unreal religions, that would be a major question in-setting, especially if different religions disagree on which is which. Are some clerics equivalent to warlocks with a different power source?
    -Why was bahamut's death necessary for divine magic to come into being? Did clerics not believe strongly enough before then?
    -I legitimately don't understand the difference between monks, paladins, and psions. How is will different from discipline? If psions are a natural evolution, does that make some Source fundamentally less evolved than the average Source?
    -As I mentioned before, wizards use artificial Source, which is an incredibly cool concept, but needs details to explain how.
    -Druids taking power from the earth itself doesn't quite gel with plants and animals, which just live on the surface.
    -The fact that warlocks borrow or steal Source implies that it can be removed from someone without killing them. Can a warlock 'crowdsource' magic from a population, taking a smaller amount from a larger group? That might actually just be what a bard does, actually. Do warlocks need to achieve emotional resonance with their patron like a bard does?
    Last edited by aimlessPolymath; 2020-08-10 at 04:47 PM.
    My one piece of homebrew: The Shaman. A Druid replacement with more powerlevel control.
    The bargain bin- malfunctioning, missing, and broken magic items.
    Spirit Barbarian: The Barbarian, with heavy elements from the Shaman. Complete up to level 17.
    The Priest: A cleric reword which ran out of steam. Still a fun prestige class suitable for E6.
    The Coward: Not every hero can fight.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Yakk's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006

    Default Re: Help me rationalize magic and its history

    You could use 4e style elemental chaos here, which would explain why the Titans where made out of multiple elemental types.

    The genesis of The Source needs to be better described.

    I assume there is no outer space in this cosmology. At least, I don't see a need for it; the astral plane can cover it.

    Occams Razor then says that the astral plane is related to The Source.

    "In the space left by the planes bouncing off each other was a void. Elementals leaked into that void. They mindlessly consumed like-typed elementals, some growing into massive Titans, and slaughtered unlike-typed."

    The Source could be "void". When the Elemental Planes bounced off each other, they created an elemental vacuum, and that elemental vacuum had substance.

    This would mean the sun and stars aren't "source", they are fire.

    The Source is the astral plane, the void in which the shattered remnants of the great collision are floating in.

    ...

    In the beginning there was the Elemental Chaos. All was possible, all was substance. Time was unending.

    That which could happen, did. Two limbs of the Elemental Chaos could collide, so they did. And they rebounded.

    In the gap formed between them, a void formed, full of primal elemental debris. Time existed, defined by the growth of the void, an arrow that cannot be reversed.

    The first Titan to awake, Primus, grew, broke apart, and consumed the primal elemental debris. Its "children" fought each other, ignored each other, ate each other. Until they ate up almost all of the primal elemental debris in the lonely void, and starved, and died. Their corpses formed worlds, suns, stars.

    And it was good.

    The void grew. It stirred. It formed filaments and fragments and spirits. These spirits extended into the not-void, and found fertile land on the dead elementals.

    This mixture of elemental stuff, and astral void, formed life.

    And it was good.

    The first beings to awake where the Dragons and the Giants. These formed out of the remnants of the primal elemental material that was still intact after the age of the Titans, but infused with astral spirits.

    Both where huge creatures of power. They warred and tore the world asunder in a way very much like the Titans of old. They used their innate well of raw Astral power to fuel Sorcery.

    Into this war the lesser races arrived. The Orcs, who shaped the void with druidcraft and could hold the Giants and Dragons at bay, and the Humans, whose bardcraft was insufficient, and where enslaved by the Dragons.

    etc.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2019

    Default Re: Help me rationalize magic and its history

    Quote Originally Posted by aimlessPolymath View Post
    Some things that might need elaboration:
    -The link between bards and clerics is very good, but the position of gods needs to be clarified; some clerics worship gods and some don't? If there are both real and unreal religions, that would be a major question in-setting, especially if different religions disagree on which is which. Are some clerics equivalent to warlocks with a different power source?
    There are no active gods on Mundas. Religion works just like it does in the real world. Most people that, in a meta-game sense, that we would call clerics believe their power comes from a god. The goal here is to allow character concepts such as an atheist cleric or a character that is functional a cleric but not flavored as such. While I have a few pre-made religions, a player can create a new one, since the existence of any god can not be proved or disproved.
    -Why was bahamut's death necessary for divine magic to come into being? Did clerics not believe strongly enough before then?
    Bahamut's death did not create divine magic outright. After his death people began to worship him. Bards and Clerics draw power from the same thing, the harmonizing of a large pool of Sources. Religion just casts a wider net than a bard so has more power. A political movement could also produce Clerics, or any type of large organization where most members are willing a desire into being.
    -I legitimately don't understand the difference between monks, paladins, and psions. How is will different from discipline? If psions are a natural evolution, does that make some Source fundamentally less evolved than the average Source?
    Sorcerers are perhaps the most powerful but also least evolved of magic. They are a spigot that taps pure raw source.
    Other spell casters have to use more evolved(complex) means to produce the same result. Paladins use the Source in the same way as Monks, they are just doing it by accident. Or they aren't. The intent is to give a player the option to play classes without the flavor baggage. Mechanically they are a Paladin, but thematically their abilities come from psionics, if they wish. Maybe they want to play a Barbarian flavored as a monk, rather than raging they are channeling their Ki. Maybe the reason a fighter is so skilled is because he is subconsciously channeling his Ki, its up to the player how they want to flavor it. All Spell casters need a focus or they would be consumed by the raw power of the Source. Even Sorcerers need a focus to open and close the spigot.
    Psions do not. They have evolved past the need for a focus because they have made a focus of their mind.

    -As I mentioned before, wizards use artificial Source, which is an incredibly cool concept, but needs details to explain how.
    Wizards know that x+y=Magic Missile but they don't actually know why it works. That is why we have a finite list of spells. Artificers are the mad bastards that just keep plugging different formulas in to see what happens if anything. When a Wizard or Artificer prepares a spell they are completing 95% of the formula and then the V,S, or M components required when casting make up that last 5%. Wizardry, which is different than Sorcery, was taught to humans by the Elves so that humans could be made more useful to elves, but not told how it works so that humans could not out out develop Elves. (Players can play an elf mechanically, but are required to flavor them as Half-Elves or "Mundane Elves as they are called in the setting since they are rarely 50% elf.)
    -Druids taking power from the earth itself doesn't quite gel with plants and animals, which just live on the surface.
    Remember the stars and Sun are Sources that is suffusing the planet itself with Source. Plants are feeding off the sun with their leaves and drawing Source from the earth with their roots. That is why some plants that are better a harvesting certain aspects of Source can be used as spell components or in potions. Animals also instinctively draw upon Source that connects them to the planet. When Druids plug themselves in to the planet's Source, the planet becomes a circuit for the Druid, animals, and plants
    -The fact that warlocks borrow or steal Source implies that it can be removed from someone without killing them. Can a warlock 'crowdsource' magic from a population, taking a smaller amount from a larger group? That might actually just be what a bard does, actually. Do warlocks need to achieve emotional resonance with their patron like a bard does?
    That is what Bards do, Clerics as well! The irony is that a Clerics belief in a God (or concept), joined with the belief of other like minded people, is the source of her power, whether that God actually exists or not. Warlocks DO get their power from something like a God. Gods do exist, but only because their followers will them into existence. Magic is will made manifest,
    so with enough Source (more people=more source) gods can be born. When someone who believes strongly in a God dies, their source is consumed by this Well of Source making it even more powerful. From the perspective of the devout this is their soul joining their God. But what happens when a God has no more followers? Those typically become Warlock patrons, they plant a seed of their own power in a Warlock so that it may grow, then be reaped and harvested when that Warlock dies. Powerful Sorcerers, such as the Fey, can also be Patrons, but they typically have different motives. Maybe by planing a seed of their Source you effectively become a phylactery?
    I think what mortals call the Celestial plane is the ,uh, source of The Source. The Feywilds act as a sort of "filter" for the world catching most of the Source. The Mundane plane (Prime Material) catches most of what is left. The Shadowfell, like the deepest parts of the ocean, gets very little and greedily drains any Source that makes its way down there.

    Low Necromancy: (making skeletons and zombies) your just put a tiny bit of your Source in a different vessel that you can remotely pilot. High Necromancy: Vampirism (feeding off the source of another via blood) and Lichdom (Removing your Source from your fleshy vessel to a safe place and then piloting that vessel remotely). Undeath: Source without a vessel=ghost, an ember or source in a dead vessel=mindless undead. Sentient undead are Sources that have been prevented from dissipating either by cheating or a glitch in the system or being hacked by something with the means to do so.

    Resurrection: when you teleport in a Si-Fi setting, your atoms are being destroyed in one point and copies are being made at another. When you cast a Resurrection spell you are just making a copy of someone's Source and putting it back in the vessel. The original Source(soul) lost with death is not actually returned. That is why the returned have no memory of the afterlife, even if there is one.

    Source is just life force. It is Everything and sits opposite of Null which is Nothing. All the plains lay between the plain of Source (mortals see it as the Celestial plane) and the plain of Null (mortals have no concept of Null and are not aware of this plane). Mortals have many models of the planes, some say it is a tree, some a wheel, others a sea. No mortal can truly rationalize the array of the planes. Maybe all models are correct at the same time?

    The Feywilds and Shadowfell are close to the Mundane plain. Their are other worlds in the Mundane Plain, but the people of Mundas are unaware of them. Do they have their own Feywild and Shadowfell? Illithid's and Gith come from some of these other words.

    The Astral Plane can be used to reach any point of any plain if you know where to go. Should civilization advance enough, someone could figure out how to use the Astral Plane (or Sea) as a fantasy equivalent of Hyper-Space to get to other worlds on the Mundane Plain.

    Mortals can not comprehend the vastness of the Chaotic Abyss because it is just an ever expanding pool of Source that isn't being absorbed by a plain. Every where that a plain isn't, the Abyss is. Should the Abyss become still it would sink into Null.

    The "Nine Hells" are just the border between the Abyss and the Mundane Plain.

    Sorry for my stream of conscious meandering.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2017

    Default Re: Help me rationalize magic and its history

    There are no active gods on Mundas. Religion works just like it does in the real world. Most people that, in a meta-game sense, that we would call clerics believe their power comes from a god. The goal here is to allow character concepts such as an atheist cleric or a character that is functional a cleric but not flavored as such. While I have a few pre-made religions, a player can create a new one, since the existence of any god can not be proved or disproved.
    My point was that there are some religions where a god has coalesced:
    with enough Source (more people=more source) gods can be born.
    And there some where it hasn't yet, either because of not enough time or because of not enough worshipers.
    This sets up conflicts of belief where one group believes their god has already been born, while others believe that it has not.

    Furthermore, I know that gods can have some direct influence on the world when out of worshipers, via warlock contracts:
    But what happens when a God has no more followers? Those typically become Warlock patrons
    Why wouldn't they manifest some kind of proof while still worshiped?

    Wizards know that x+y=Magic Missile but they don't actually know why it works. That is why we have a finite list of spells [...] Wizardry, which is different than Sorcery, was taught to humans by the Elves so that humans could be made more useful to elves, but not told how it works so that humans could not out out develop Elves. (Players can play an elf mechanically, but are required to flavor them as Half-Elves or "Mundane Elves as they are called in the setting since they are rarely 50% elf.)
    Not quite my point. I'm looking at this passage:
    In their wandering the Elves have settled in my planes, including those with no Source. In such places they had to create a substitute. This is what a wizard does. They create an alternate Source to draw from.
    If every living thing has a Source, how are there planes with no Source? How does a wizard go about the process of creating an alternate Source to draw from? (Is this a question deliberately left ambiguous?)

    Sorcerers are perhaps the most powerful but also least evolved of magic. They are a spigot that taps pure raw source.
    When you say 'taps', do you mean that they have some sort of link to the origin of Source? Like how stars and the sun are portals into the Source?

    Other spell casters have to use more evolved(complex) means to produce the same result. Paladins use the Source in the same way as Monks, they are just doing it by accident. Or they aren't.
    We're moving forwards in terms of description; Source has an attribute known as 'complexity'. Some

    The intent is to give a player the option to play classes without the flavor baggage. Mechanically they are a Paladin, but thematically their abilities come from psionics, if they wish. Maybe they want to play a Barbarian flavored as a monk, rather than raging they are channeling their Ki. Maybe the reason a fighter is so skilled is because he is subconsciously channeling his Ki, its up to the player how they want to flavor it.
    I'm not complaining about this at all! I'm just trying to categorize the different styles of drawing from the Source.

    All Spell casters need a focus or they would be consumed by the raw power of the Source. Even Sorcerers need a focus to open and close the spigot.

    Psions do not. They have evolved past the need for a focus because they have made a focus of their mind.
    Remember the stars and Sun are Sources that is suffusing the planet itself with Source. Plants are feeding off the sun with their leaves and drawing Source from the earth with their roots. That is why some plants that are better a harvesting certain aspects of Source can be used as spell components or in potions. Animals also instinctively draw upon Source that connects them to the planet. When Druids plug themselves in to the planet's Source, the planet becomes a circuit for the Druid, animals, and plants
    Ah, so Source can exist outside a living thing.

    Here's how I sort the different styles, based on what you've told me. Note that a given style might be used to describe any class 'behind the scenes'.

    Bards, Warlocks, Clerics, Druids: These classes draw power from an external source. By developing 'emotional resonances' or similar lines of belief, bards and clerics draw power from the people around them. Warlocks and Druids connect to a specific, powerful being or planet with enough Source to spare. There might be a small number of 'clerical warlocks' that make contracts with a god?

    Sorcerers: These guys seem to be a source of Source much like the sun/stars, judging by the references to 'tapping' into the Source.

    Monks/Paladins: These classes have their own Source, and they shape it for different things. One of them has a different style of training than the other, but they're otherwise similar. Unlike Sorcerers or Psions, they're stuck with the quality and quantity of Source they start with, more or less.

    Psions: These guys have a way to 'upgrade' their Source to a higher complexity, rather than just shaping it into different effects like the Monk or Paladin do.

    Wizards: These guys create alternate Sources to draw on? I don't really understand how they do that.

    On to the new stuff!

    The Shadowfell, like the deepest parts of the ocean, gets very little and greedily drains any Source that makes its way down there.
    I love this. It'd be a little like living in a low-oxygen environment.

    Lichdom (Removing your Source from your fleshy vessel to a safe place and then piloting that vessel remotely)
    Hmm. This somewhat implies that lichdom means no casting for sorcerers or psions (those who draw on internal reservoir which would be distanced from the vessel), whereas warlocks/clerics/wizards/etc can cast normally. Not a problem, just an observation.

    Undeath: Source without a vessel=ghost, an ember or source in a dead vessel=mindless undead. Sentient undead are Sources that have been prevented from dissipating either by cheating or a glitch in the system or being hacked by something with the means to do so.
    Makes sense to me.

    Resurrection: when you teleport in a Si-Fi setting, your atoms are being destroyed in one point and copies are being made at another. When you cast a Resurrection spell you are just making a copy of someone's Source and putting it back in the vessel. The original Source(soul) lost with death is not actually returned. That is why the returned have no memory of the afterlife, even if there is one.
    I very much like this take on resurrection, since it explains why people don't repeatedly resurrect their loved ones.

    Source is just life force.
    This implies that the sun (or the planet, at least) is alive, which is awesome.

    Mortals can not comprehend the vastness of the Chaotic Abyss because it is just an ever expanding pool of Source that isn't being absorbed by a plain. Every where that a plain isn't, the Abyss is. Should the Abyss become still it would sink into Null.
    Hmm. The Abyss is the 'default' plane, in a sense, since it's wherever other planes aren't? It sounds like it borders all planes as a result. The comment about stillness seems to imply that there's one 'end' of the Abyss sinking into Null, while it's expanding everywhere else to keep from vanishing.

    The Astral Plane can be used to reach any point of any plain if you know where to go. Should civilization advance enough, someone could figure out how to use the Astral Plane (or Sea) as a fantasy equivalent of Hyper-Space to get to other worlds on the Mundane Plain.
    It sounds like you could do this with the Abyss too- it'd just be much more dangerous (and you'd need to pass through two sets of Nine Hells to get there).
    My one piece of homebrew: The Shaman. A Druid replacement with more powerlevel control.
    The bargain bin- malfunctioning, missing, and broken magic items.
    Spirit Barbarian: The Barbarian, with heavy elements from the Shaman. Complete up to level 17.
    The Priest: A cleric reword which ran out of steam. Still a fun prestige class suitable for E6.
    The Coward: Not every hero can fight.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2019

    Default Re: Help me rationalize magic and its history

    Thanks for responding, it really helps me to understand what I want by explaining it.

    Wizardry is a puzzle. The origin of Source, like the origin of life in our world, is a mystery. Think of The Source as a big fire. Everyone else is using that big fire to start their own fire, in some way or another. Sorcerers are just walking up with a Torch and dipping it in directly, for example. Everyone using Source is using fire drawn from that original dire, be it second hand or third hand. Wizards are using Flint to make their own fire. Like a cave man, they don't understand that it is the heat from the friction of the flint striking that is causing the fire, they just know if they hit these rocks together in a certain way that it produces fire (magic).
    I don't know how they are doing it either, in the fiction Elves know, but they won't be telling anyone.

    An example of a Plain without Source, or atleast a direct connection to Source, would be the Shadowfell. Elves (Shadar-kai) rely heavily on wizardry to supplement their own inate Source. Elves are unique, they come from a being that is pure, sentient, Source. (I'M GOING TO MISSPELL ALOT OF THESE TERMS) Corellion is actually more like a demon than a god but is creative rather than destructive. When clashing with his destructive counter part, parts of him were scattered and became the Seladrin. These Seladrin were sometimes divided further, creating Eladrin who most often were drawn to the Feywilds. Elves are Eladrin that have been seduced by the idea of law over their Chaotic nature.

    Sometimes debris comes from these Source Portal in the form of meteors. They crash into planets and become veins of rare metals and gems. These gems and metals can be used in potions that can strengthen someone's source. Illithids use something called "Void Water" to liquify "Star Sapphires" to make a concoction that makes Psionics more potent. Though most are unaware of its incidious origins, plenty of Clerics and Paladins gain their abilities via similar methods. This leaves them sterile however.

    Gods and GOO patrons can not leave the Source plain, and can only communicate with creatures that have gained enough source to reach out to the "goods". GOO patrons have to wait until they are discovered, and sense their religion has died out few are actively looking for them. They have to put out hooks and hope someone bites. They also have to worry about being consumed by larger gods so need to keep a low profile. GOO patrons are more invested in their Warlocks than gods are in clerics because they have much few followers.

    Monks, and Paladins (and martial classes that want this flavor) are just using the source that is inside them to improve their natural abilities. Paladins usually have more Source than Monks, but are essentially using it the same way.
    Psions, actually usually don't have much Source, but are able to maximize that sources potential to be more powerful than beings that are just relying on quantity (such as a Sorcerer or Cleric).

    Like radiation, Source can mutate, especially during Surges (like solar flares) that's where most monsters come from, as well as Asamaar and Tieflings. Genasi have been mutated by Source that has touched strong Elemental Plains.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2017

    Default Re: Help me rationalize magic and its history

    Corellion is actually more like a demon than a god but is creative rather than destructive. When clashing with his destructive counter part, parts of him were scattered and became the Seladrin. These Seladrin were sometimes divided further, creating Eladrin who most often were drawn to the Feywilds. Elves are Eladrin that have been seduced by the idea of law over their Chaotic nature.
    Hmm. If gods exist on the same plane as GOO patrons (the Source plane), does that put Corellion on the same plane as well? It sounds like there's a categorization of Celestial beings forming:
    -Demons, which are naturally occuring beings composed of Source. They have can have attributes like 'creative' or 'destructive'; maybe they all exist in pairs? Corellion's opposite is implied to be another Celestial being. These presumably can be contacted by warlocks, since fiendish pacts are a staple trope.
    -Gods, which are generated by a lot of people donating Source through combined belief.
    -GOOs, which are gods that no longer have a supply of Source. Beings with strong enough Source can contact these directly to make deals. Maybe this is only possible when there's not very much 'noise' from other worshippers? Otherwise, I'd expect the majority of warlocks to have contacted gods, which are much better known than the 'dead gods'.

    These gems and metals can be used in potions that can strengthen someone's source. Illithids use something called "Void Water" to liquify "Star Sapphires" to make a concoction that makes Psionics more potent.
    A note: Source seems to have a new attribute of 'strength', indicating that some Source is stronger or weaker than others. Is this tied to complexity, or is it a different measure of quality? Maybe Strength just means quantity?
    Additionally, if psionics relies on creating very complex forms of Source, it sounds like taking in the concoction temporarily weakens the psion while they bring the new Source up to par.

    Though most are unaware of its incidious origins, plenty of Clerics and Paladins gain their abilities via similar methods. This leaves them sterile however.
    I'm confused about Clerics- did you mean monks here? I somewhat wonder how someone could gain their powers accidentally; do you mean something like a monastery built on top of a Source-rich meteorite?

    Like radiation, Source can mutate, especially during Surges (like solar flares) that's where most monsters come from, as well as Asamaar and Tieflings. Genasi have been mutated by Source that has touched strong Elemental Plains.
    I note that this implies that Source can carry along aspects of what it's touched- there's some sort of 'elemental Source'.
    My one piece of homebrew: The Shaman. A Druid replacement with more powerlevel control.
    The bargain bin- malfunctioning, missing, and broken magic items.
    Spirit Barbarian: The Barbarian, with heavy elements from the Shaman. Complete up to level 17.
    The Priest: A cleric reword which ran out of steam. Still a fun prestige class suitable for E6.
    The Coward: Not every hero can fight.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2019

    Default Re: Help me rationalize magic and its history

    Quote Originally Posted by aimlessPolymath View Post
    Hmm. If gods exist on the same plane as GOO patrons (the Source plane), does that put Corellion on the same plane as well? No, they are in the Abyss closer to The Source Plain than the Null Plain
    It sounds like there's a categorization of Celestial beings forming:
    -Demons, which are naturally occuring beings composed of Source. They have can have attributes like 'creative' or 'destructive'; maybe they all exist in pairs? Corellion's opposite is implied to be another Celestial being. These presumably can be contacted by warlocks, since fiendish pacts are a staple trope. A GOO could also be flavored as a demon, one that COULD reach the Mundane Plains if it can get passed the 9Hells
    -Gods, which are generated by a lot of people donating Source through combined belief.
    -GOOs, which are gods that no longer have a supply of Source. Beings with strong enough Source can contact these directly to make deals. Maybe this is only possible when there's not very much 'noise' from other worshippers? Otherwise, I'd expect the majority of warlocks to have contacted gods, which are much better known than the 'dead gods'. One man's Pelor is another man's Celestial Patron. I like the 'noise' idea. Not all patrons are on the Source Plain.


    A note: Source seems to have a new attribute of 'strength', indicating that some Source is stronger or weaker than others. Is this tied to complexity, or is it a different measure of quality? Maybe Strength just means quantity? Yes I chose a poor word. These metals and gems serve as a magnet for Source, increasing the source available to a thing. Artificers also value them as a power source or amplifier. A Warforged would probably be created with such material as its "heart" or "Brain".
    Additionally, if psionics relies on creating very complex forms of Source, it sounds like taking in the concoction temporarily weakens the psion while they bring the new Source up to par. No it just gives them extra fuel to burn. Even Psions grow tired and weak (mechanically, the class has spell slots, assuming Psionics are relegated to subclasses in 5e) This just means they can do more before they are exhausted.


    I'm confused about Clerics- did you mean monks here? I somewhat wonder how someone could gain their powers accidentally; do you mean something like a monastery built on top of a Source-rich meteorite?No I meant Clerics. There is nothing stopping a Sorcerer from becoming a Cleric or vice versa. That's probably where Divine Souls come from. Just because you get your Source from one place doesn't mean you can't get more from somewhere else. It's a lot harder to become a Sorcerer if you aren't born one, but these Gems and Surges are an avenue one could take. If a player wanted to multiclass into Sorcerer but didn't have a story reason up to this point, this is how I'd do it. Monks train themselves to be able to use their Source, Paladins just do it because they really really want to. Most interpret this as answered prayers. Or not, you could play a Paladin that has trained themselves to use the Source in this way, or maybe use it the way bards or even Sorcerers do. Its up to the player and their character concept. The point is that Source can be used to give enhanced abilities to the mind or body or both.


    I note that this implies that Source can carry along aspects of what it's touched- there's some sort of 'elemental Source'. yes, Source can be infused by elements if it passes through an Elemental Plain. Remember also that the world is made up the remains of dead Elementals. If you live near a place where the elements are concentrated (such as a mountain range that formed from the death of an earth titan) the Source in that area is probably going to be earthy and Earth Genasi children will be more common. Source is also touching the Elemental Plains themselves, that's where beings such as Genies come from.
    My goal is to make a place for every official Spell, race, and subclass in the setting and to make each make sense and be connected to what is already established in a way that does not conflict. I want to use flavor to make as many concepts as possible work. You can have a devout Paladin and an atheist Cleric in the same party. A Bard could be flavored as a Psion, and Sorcerer could be flavored as a cleric. The lore informs the flavor, not the mechanics. A Sorcerer isn't a Sorcerer because they have meta magic, its because of where they get their Source from. For example I have a Character that is mechanically a Tempest Cleric Water Genasi. In the Fiction however, he was a human that was caught in a storm at sea that happened during a Surge. This Surge made the storm sentient and also infused the Human with Water and Air elements. So he is something like a warlock with this sentient storm as his patron, and a sorcerer with this Elemental Source Infusion. His Spiritual Weapon might just be a tiny aspect of that storm that he is able to summon, his guiding bolt is a bolt of lightning. It doesn't matter that the "Lightning" is Radiant damage, because it comes from Source and radiant is Source'spurest form.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalflingPirate

    Join Date
    Nov 2011

    Default Re: Help me rationalize magic and its history

    I am not certain that magic must be explained or justified in any way, unless the campaign centers on discovering how it works. As an example, do we know much about gravity? Is it a wave that emanates from a source? Is it a particle? Is it a byproduct of matter, or the result of relative velocity of matter?

    That said, I propose that Source is the byproduct of the entropic decay of the multiverse. Time flows unevenly and the friction between these timestreams generates Source, as well as creating dimensional pockets into which elements clump, ultimately allowing universes to form.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •