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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Griffon

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    Default Meh-tic Odysseys of Theros: meh.

    Ok, my book came in. I'm thoroughly unimpressed.

    The good:
    - very beautiful artwork, really nice

    The bad:
    - 150+ pages of drivel on the gods, champions of the gods, quests for the gods, yadiyadiya. Not written in a way that it is 1) fun to read and inspirational, or 2) easily portable to another setting. And this is the meat of the book.
    - items: not very interesting or unique
    - monsters: neither

    The ugly:
    - 2 pages (2!) of subclass options. Both ok, but neither fills in a conceptual vacuum (you already could make a bard that was a good orator, or a paladin looking for glory) or has mechanics that are truely interesting enough to bring something new to the table. Only 1 new background.
    - races: mostly reprints of already published races

    My biggest gripe is when I compare it with Ravnica. Also a very specific (MtG) setting, also only 2 new subclass options, more or less the same setup (some races, items, monsters, and lots about the setting), also stunning artwork. But so much better in every way. The description of the city and the guilds (the meat of that book) is wonderful and flavourful. The city maps, layouts, and lots of stuff can be taken and imported in most settings; the guilds as well (whether you need need an interesting flavourful thieves guild, or a research organization), almost all are unique and flavorful. And the monsters are much more interesting and worth it to import in a campaign with experienced players who know most MM creatures. When you look at the subclasses, they don't really make me exited either, but at least the spore druid is filling a conceptual niche (and the terrible powercreepy backgrounds can be used in optimization challanges ;-))


    So at the moment, I put it on the shelf without too much interestin opening it again any time soon. But maybe somebody knows about a redeeming feature of the book, or a good tip to really read chapter X once more cause there is interesting stuff I missed?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Orc in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Jun 2018

    Default Re: Meh-tic Odysseys of Theros: meh.

    I find the piety system and how they showcase it towards the gods super-inspirational. For me it sets up a way of thinking for how I could apply it to my setting or whatever setting I would DM. I guess it is not for everyone but I really liked those chapters and the level 1 "feats" given in the book.

    Edit: I also realize that I don't have a concrete tip on how to use it. My process so far has been: I took the structures used for the piety system and started applying them to the gods of Odyssey of the Dragonlords pantheon. It is not done yet but I took the gods from theros that are similar to the deities of Dragonlords and have begun rewriting them to the gods of Dragonlords, changing some abilities and such to better fit with who they are now. The Dragonlords campaign already have some activities that should influence your relation with your god and it felt nice building on those. In the same way, I adapted some of the magic items in dragonlords to give buffs based on your piety level and started writing unique random tables for each item instead of using the random tables for minor and major effects from the DMG which felt way too random and often unfitting to those deities.

    I also adapted the level 1 "feats", don't remember what they are called, to the other setting and written some of my own to fill them out with more options.

    So far it has not come that far but yeah, that has pretty much been how I used the book so far.
    Last edited by Fnissalot; 2020-08-10 at 02:43 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Meh-tic Odysseys of Theros: meh.

    Yeah, not great and I would say less fun than Ravnica as well... on the other hand having been reading about the steaming pile of Eberron recently I am relatively pleased with the setting and it seems to endow godsandfaith with personality and meaning. I shouldn't be surprised at this, but after the monumental blandness of the Eberron faiths I do think that this is a definite improvement.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Titan in the Playground
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    Dec 2008

    Default Re: Meh-tic Odysseys of Theros: meh.

    Gotta disagree a little bit with Waazraath. While on the whole I do think the book is a bit less than I hoped. I found certain sections of it great.

    The piety system is simple, flavorful, and effective. What’s more the concept can basically be ported over to any organization with power over the PCs be it patron, guilds, governments, and of course gods.

    Oath of Glory Paladin I’m ambivalent towards. Honestly, the generic Homeric hero archetype is still probably Champion Fighter as boring as it is. There’s too much baggage in the Paladin for it to work. Heracles, Achilles, and Odysseus didn’t really touch people to heal them or end spells.

    But College Eloquence I quite like. Very flavorful to the great speeches that filled Greek writing alongside the battles. I’m a little disappointed as the UAs uses of Calm Emotions seemed a great take in representing how an Orator could work a crowd. The replacement Silver Tongue is probably more useful, but also more generic and I kind of think less fun and potentially game breaking. I would have preferred if they had really delved into a bunch of effects that would keep the focus on working the crowd. But what we got is still fun.

    But my favorite thing as the eternal GM is mythic monsters. Having creatures set to shift phases as the battle progresses is a trick I’ve used on my players a few times. Each fairly successfully to make interesting encounters. Seeing WotC do their own version of it has given me quite a few ideas.

    That all said. Yeah I don’t think it was quite as good as Ravnica. Which I think honestly did Backgrounds with the level of power and more importantly character defining detail that they should have been released with.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    HalflingWizardGirl

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    confused Re: Meh-tic Odysseys of Theros: meh.

    I’m honestly quite puzzled; I adored this book, while I could just not get into Ravnica.

    Perhaps that’s because I’m a classical mythology and history nerd, and even with a MtG twist I got enough recognition to enjoy it.

    While I admit I was less than impressed with the subclasses, feeling the Oath of Glory was underwhelming and the College of Eloquence overwhelming, I found the rest of the book fascinating. The monsters, both Mythic and not, are excellent, the Piety system very inspirational, the “Atlas” chapter informative, and the adventure hooks also very inspiring.

    I was a little let down by the dearth of non-Artifact magic items, but as a whole, the book blew me away. Maybe I just have lower standards/expectations?

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    MonkGirl

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    Default Re: Meh-tic Odysseys of Theros: meh.

    The official setting specific books we have so far are... Ravnica, Eberron, Theros, Wildemont... and maybe SCAG... all sort of follow that same outline right?

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

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    Jul 2018

    Default Re: Meh-tic Odysseys of Theros: meh.

    I've owned this book since it released, but I've only thumbed through it for a few minutes. I'm running an Eberron game right now, so nothing in this book really applies and I've put my game prep time into stuff that I'll actually use. Still, I'll give Theros a fair shot when I have the time.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Griffon

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    Default Re: Meh-tic Odysseys of Theros: meh.

    Quote Originally Posted by P. G. Macer View Post
    I’m honestly quite puzzled; I adored this book, while I could just not get into Ravnica.

    Perhaps that’s because I’m a classical mythology and history nerd, and even with a MtG twist I got enough recognition to enjoy it.

    While I admit I was less than impressed with the subclasses, feeling the Oath of Glory was underwhelming and the College of Eloquence overwhelming, I found the rest of the book fascinating. The monsters, both Mythic and not, are excellent, the Piety system very inspirational, the “Atlas” chapter informative, and the adventure hooks also very inspiring.

    I was a little let down by the dearth of non-Artifact magic items, but as a whole, the book blew me away. Maybe I just have lower standards/expectations?
    Lol, based on this I'd say we just have a different taste :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Naanomi View Post
    The official setting specific books we have so far are... Ravnica, Eberron, Theros, Wildemont... and maybe SCAG... all sort of follow that same outline right?
    Yeah; but SCAG had quite a lot of new subclasses, and cool racial options form which 0 were recycled; contents on Fearun was fun imo, quite a lot of well written short stories that told a lot about the setting. Eberron had loads of cool new races (few recycled ones though), a whole new class with a new subsystem (infusions), and imo a more interesting world as well.



    I'll check out the lvl 1 bonus abilities, the piety system and the mythical monsters once more, based on the feedback of (other) posts. Hope I'll find some so far hidden gems!

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    MonkGirl

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    Default Re: Meh-tic Odysseys of Theros: meh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Waazraath View Post
    Lol, based on this I'd say we just have a different taste :)
    Yeah; but SCAG had quite a lot of new subclasses, and cool racial options form which 0 were recycled; contents on Fearun was fun imo, quite a lot of well written short stories that told a lot about the setting. Eberron had loads of cool new races (few recycled ones though), a whole new class with a new subsystem (infusions), and imo a more interesting world as well.
    SCAG was the first real supplement... of course the stuff was new. Now, 3/11.5 of the subclasses have been reprinted, and probably... 3-4 of the others are pretty badly designed (the early supplement and lack of community feedback really shows). The racial options are not stellar either, excepting perhaps winged Tiefling (where allowed). The Melee Cantrips are the only real standouts in the book to me

  10. - Top - End - #10

    Default Re: Meh-tic Odysseys of Theros: meh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naanomi View Post
    The official setting specific books we have so far are... Ravnica, Eberron, Theros, Wildemont... and maybe SCAG... all sort of follow that same outline right?
    Nope. I bought Eberron, Wildemount, and SCAG and browsed Ravnica, but Eberron is head and shoulders above the rest in its flexibility, flavor, and eagerness to present the DM with gameable material (ongoing mysteries instead of just pages of cliched facts about imaginary places and people). It's the first 5E setting book I've found usable for gaming.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Meh-tic Odysseys of Theros: meh.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxWilson View Post
    Nope. I bought Eberron, Wildemount, and SCAG and browsed Ravnica, but Eberron is head and shoulders above the rest in its flexibility, flavor, and eagerness to present the DM with gameable material (ongoing mysteries instead of just pages of cliched facts about imaginary places and people). It's the first 5E setting book I've found usable for gaming.
    That's because it was a game world specifically built to be a D&D game world from the start. And because it's not made by those horrible people at Green Ronin (they know what they did, and so do I).

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Meh-tic Odysseys of Theros: meh.

    So, I am on record as being a huge fan of both Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica and Mythic Odysseys of Theros. Fun fact: I do not own, nor have ever played, a single Magic card.

    I love these supplements because I can sit down with them, roll a few dice, and let the tables in their adventuring sections fuel my creativity. Within 30 minutes, I've got an adventure concept ready to roll. What's more important, both of the material in these supplements are immensely portable, meaning I can plop them down in whatever world I'm building. Supernatural gifts, heroic drives, and all that? That's just icing on the cake, man.

    I love the Mythic monsters as a concept, but I wish they had done more with them. I also wish they had given the Oath of Heroism class another run in UA.

    But the core of the book for me is gods, how they relate to mortals, and how to build adventures around them. That's immensely useful to me as a DM, and I freaking love it.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Meh-tic Odysseys of Theros: meh.

    I have my gripes with the Theros book, but i think judging a setting book on its CharOp Power options is very silly and short-sighted. My biggest disappointment is that while the Mythic mechanics are fun, there are far too few examples. There should be at least 10.
    Last edited by NorthernPhoenix; 2020-08-10 at 05:17 PM.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: Meh-tic Odysseys of Theros: meh.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxWilson View Post
    Nope. I bought Eberron, Wildemount, and SCAG and browsed Ravnica, but Eberron is head and shoulders above the rest in its flexibility, flavor, and eagerness to present the DM with gameable material (ongoing mysteries instead of just pages of cliched facts about imaginary places and people). It's the first 5E setting book I've found usable for gaming.
    Plus the Group Patron feature, giving the DM an easy way to tell the party "This is what I think you should do next and why" when they're lost.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Yunru's Avatar

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    Default Re: Meh-tic Odysseys of Theros: meh.

    Not to mention they did a complete lazy black mana = evil find and replace, rather than looking at the various items and determining which alignment fit.

  16. - Top - End - #16

    Default Re: Meh-tic Odysseys of Theros: meh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evaar View Post
    Plus the Group Patron feature, giving the DM an easy way to tell the party "This is what I think you should do next and why" when they're lost.
    Yeah, plus even small things like thinking to put the Artificer spell list right there in the Artificer description instead of at the back of the book in some appendix.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Orc in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Jun 2018

    Default Re: Meh-tic Odysseys of Theros: meh.

    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernPhoenix View Post
    I have my gripes with the Theros book, but i think judging a setting book on its CharOp Power options is very silly and short-sighted. My biggest disappointment is that while the Mythic mechanics are fun, there are far too few examples. There should be at least 10.
    Yeah, I agree. I was surprised how few there where and the giant hydra on the cover is not one. Would so liked a bunch more mythic monsters!

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Griffon

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    Default Re: Meh-tic Odysseys of Theros: meh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naanomi View Post
    SCAG was the first real supplement... of course the stuff was new. Now, 3/11.5 of the subclasses have been reprinted, and probably... 3-4 of the others are pretty badly designed (the early supplement and lack of community feedback really shows). The racial options are not stellar either, excepting perhaps winged Tiefling (where allowed). The Melee Cantrips are the only real standouts in the book to me
    Dunno, I think the racials were pretty cool. Deep gnome /sviverbersomething and deep dwarf/duergar were standard underdark races that were missing (and the former being pretty cool and playable), ghostwise halfling is really nice, half elf variant is nice as well... as for the subclasses, there were some misses (purple knight, battle rager barbarian), but also really cool ones, like long death monk, bladesinger wizard an swashbuckler rogue. Melee cantrips really added something as well, in the "being able to make a gish" department (though they had/have a minor balance issue).

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxWilson View Post
    Nope. I bought Eberron, Wildemount, and SCAG and browsed Ravnica, but Eberron is head and shoulders above the rest in its flexibility, flavor, and eagerness to present the DM with gameable material (ongoing mysteries instead of just pages of cliched facts about imaginary places and people). It's the first 5E setting book I've found usable for gaming.
    Meh... I like Eberron, but imo it's not above most of the others in usability. Personally I used SCAG the most, for inspiration, for flufff (playing a cleric of Valkur atm, with a backstory in the northlander isles), for crunch (e.g. the cantrips)... I know it gets a lot of flack and there are some definite 'misses' in it, but in general it is next to usable also a fun read, with well written short stories.

    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernPhoenix View Post
    I have my gripes with the Theros book, but i think judging a setting book on its CharOp Power options is very silly and short-sighted.
    Pardon? Given that all setting books so far are a combination of "setting + character options", I think it's pretty damn logical if people judge them by both, or by either of them, depending on what they want out of it. It isn't 3.x anymore, where you got books and books of character options (e.g., complete series), it's bad enough people who want more character options need to buy setting books just to get a tiny bit of what they actually want - then telling them they can't complain about the quality and quantity of this content "because it is a setting book" is insult to injury. (and as per OP, personally I think both fluff and crunch lacking in Theros).

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Feb 2014

    Default Re: Meh-tic Odysseys of Theros: meh.

    It's a very pretty book, and if I actually wanted to run or play in the setting, it'd be great. But since I don't, the only things that matter *to me* are the portable things, and those aren't terribly exciting. At least Ravnica had a little more to pilfer.

    I can see porting Piety to the Realms, since that also has jerk gods meddling every 20 minutes. But not to Eberron, or Primeval Thule, or Birthright, since those are the settings we play in and their deities are more distant.

    Mythic monsters might be more interesting if they didn't heal to full after hitting 0 HP and then got new legendary actions. That feels more video-gamey than anything 4e did, personally.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Meh-tic Odysseys of Theros: meh.

    My son bought the book for me as birthday present and love just about everything about it. I also am a huge fan of Greek mythology, I like the supernatural gifts concept, and the piety system seems pretty great. I would have liked more monsters, or a template on how to make other monsters mythic, but all in all, I'm pretty excited about it. I'll be starting a campaign using the setting this Saturday for my son and a few of his friends. I can't wait!

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Yakmala's Avatar

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    Default Re: Meh-tic Odysseys of Theros: meh.

    Either a source book for classic, Greek Mythology using 5e rules or a transplant of Greek gods into the Forgotten Realms setting (as they did with the Egyptian Gods and Mulhorand) would have been preferable to this.

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