Is Xykon truly Evil?

[Conradine]

Is Xykon really the monster he claims to be, or may it be that he's only a lonely, unhappy and misunderstood person that never maturated beyond the angry teenager he was?
Could his evil be just a reaction to a world which hates and fears sorcerers or even a - very misguided - hidden request for love and acceptance?

And mabye could he still be redeemed?

[JNAProductions]

He’s exactly who he claims to be.

He’s not very subtle.

[dancrilis]

Is Xykon really the monster he claims to be

Yes.

or may it be that he's only a lonely, unhappy and misunderstood person that never maturated beyond the angry teenager he was?

No.

Could his evil be just a reaction to a world which hates and fears sorcerers or even a - very misguided - hidden request for love and acceptance?

No.

And mabye could he still be redeemed?

Yes.

[Fyraltari]

Conradine, you wouldn’t be a goth Mystic Theurge with mismatched eyes and an unusual fetish, would you?

[Metastachydium]

Is Xykon really the monster he claims to be, or may it be that he's only a lonely, unhappy and misunderstood person that never maturated beyond the angry teenager he was?

I don't know, he didn't seem to be particularly angry when

Spoiler: SoD, naturally

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he gleefully slaughtered his entire family as a teenager.

I'd rather say he looked, well, gleeful.

And mabye could he still be redeemed?

Well, you're certainly not the first person to surmise that this is a viable option. This mindset, however, does not seem to be beneficial to one's long term health.

[Alcore]

He is undead.


Redeeming him is like trying to make a succubus a faithful housewife. She will be the housewife if you put out (and survive) but she won't ever be faithful. Xykon lost the capacity for goodness awhile back.

[understatement]

List of crimes:

Spoiler: includes SOD

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killing and zombifying Prof. Xavion, killing and zombifying his parents, accomplice to world-risking plan, Soul Binded Lirian, killed demon waitress for absolutely no reason, forceful conscription of goblin village, Soul Binded Dorukan, gloated over main henchman's brother's death as part of twisted loyalty test, threw away countless hobgoblin lives, made paladins insane enough to slaughter each other and took enjoyment in it, tortures a certain bald paladin for funzies, silver spandex, strangles V slowly and painfully, refuses to allow henchman to grow back his eye, and again, silver spandex.

There's villains like Redcloak, who at least has some kind of cause, flawed as it is. There's villains like Tarquin and Nale, who at least have empathy and friendships with other living beings. And then there's Xykon.

I'm gonna pencil in a "no" here.

ETA: (I realized that my answer is the exact opposite of the whole point of my post, so I'll highlight it in blue and pretend that didn't happen).

[Luna_Mayflower]

Is Xykon really the monster he claims to be, or may it be that he's only a lonely, unhappy and misunderstood person that never maturated beyond the angry teenager he was?
Could his evil be just a reaction to a world which hates and fears sorcerers or even a - very misguided - hidden request for love and acceptance?

And mabye could he still be redeemed?

In a prophetic vision, I found that Xykon wouldn't have been evil if his dog hadn't died at a young age. If his dog can be found and returned to life, he will become good again. This will happen in strip #1400 as I have predicted.

He’s not very subtle.

I must disagree. He is far smarter than he seems and has a low cunning that is utterly terrifying.

Conradine, you wouldn’t be a goth Mystic Theurge with mismatched eyes and an unusual fetish, would you?

Oh god she was hot though. And as a fellow lover of undead (Jake), I do respect her methods.

[JNAProductions]

I never said he was dumb.

I said he was unsubtle.

[Dr.Zero]

Is Xykon really the monster he claims to be, or may it be that he's only a lonely, unhappy and misunderstood person that never maturated beyond the angry teenager he was?
Could his evil be just a reaction to a world which hates and fears sorcerers or even a - very misguided - hidden request for love and acceptance?

Maybe those are some of the reasons behind his evilness, but does that matter?

He is evil, and not the evil of a "disporpotionate retribution" kind (which I don't even consider evil, btw); not the evil of the "wooby destroyer of worlds"; not the evil "nothing personal, sorry, you're in the way". He kills gleefully innocents and subordinates and has fun in seeing them suffer without a real reason but for laughs.

And mabye could he still be redeemed?

For the rules, I'd say no (liches are inherently evil)
In the story, I'd bet on no.
If he was a rl person, I'd say no.

[hroþila]

He is evil, and not the evil of a "disporpotionate retribution" kind (which I don't even consider evil, btw)

Damn does this thread have the HOTTEST takes

[Emanick]

Damn does this thread have the HOTTEST takes

What, you don't consider it True Neutral to hit your roommates with an artillery strike when they drink the last of the coffee without making more?

[Metastachydium]

In a prophetic vision, I found that Xykon

Do you mean Renaldo?

wouldn't have been evil if his dog hadn't died at a young age. If his dog can be found and returned to life, he will become good again. This will happen in strip #1400 as I have predicted.

Well, he did actually make it ”live” again at some point.

[Dr.Zero]

What, you don't consider it True Neutral to hit your roommates with an artillery strike when they drink the last of the coffee without making more?

Surely enough, that will teach him to not repeat the same mistake and he will be of example to the others, pushing them to behave, for the joy of the population as a whole.
Therefore I'd say it's perfect.

[Snails]

And mabye could he still be redeemed?

In theory, even a Balor can be redeemed. But to have a meaningful conversation about that topic, you would have to come to the table with a reason why a particular Balor would be induced to deeply reconsider their moral philosophy and personal relationships. That the metaphysics of the universe allows for the possibility of a Balor being redeemed, just does not matter, because we know it happens approximately never in a billion years.

Xykon, being the person he has been, might have been redeemably as a teenager. But he raced further and further away from that possibility over the decades.

At least with Belkar, we have been shown the leverage points: (1) that his empathy skills could be rekindled and strengthened, and (2) he had a hidden reflexive assumption that everyone was sure to blame him if something went wrong.

[Metastachydium]

Surely enough, that will teach him to not repeat the same mistake and he will be of example to the others, pushing them to behave, for the joy of the population as a whole.
Therefore I'd say it's perfect.

…which would make the artillery strike a Lawful Good, rather than True Neutral move, really.

[Dr.Zero]

…which would make the artillery strike a Lawful Good, rather than True Neutral move, really.

Preach it, brother!

Sadly this world is full of people who don't understand the implications of weak retribution or -may the gods forgive[1] them- no retribution at all.

[1] Not really, this would undermine the whole point. The gods must smite them!

[Aidan]

Could his evil be just a reaction to a world which hates and fears sorcerers or even a - very misguided - hidden request for love and acceptance?

And mabye could he still be redeemed?

To my knowledge, the only "evidence" of the world hating and fearing sorcerers, is the bit in SOD

Spoiler: SOD Spoilers

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where Xavion makes the claim about sorcerers being hated and feared, and then Xykon repeats it.

However we never (to my knowledge) actually see hatred or fear of sorcerers. Wizards seem to kook down upon them, and most other adventurers don't seem to care about them one way or the other. Heck, even Roy indicates in OtOoPCS

Spoiler: OtOoPCS Spoilers

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that he wants a sorcerer on the team.

I'm sure most common folk don't even really know the difference between wizards and sorcerers, just knowing they both cast spells.

With regards to redemption, I'd say it remains possible for Xykon, just not easy or likely. He has engaged in a very long list of crimes, many of which are pretty irredeemable on their own (for anyone who wants to see the list scroll up until you see understatement's post).

[denthor]

He goes out of his way to plan entrapment to kill paladin's.

This is right in the book mentioned as a Neutral Evil act.

He kills for fun when bored.

He is sustained on the energy from negative material plane.

He is evil

[Metastachydium]

To my knowledge, the only "evidence" of the world hating and fearing sorcerers, is the bit in SOD

Spoiler: SOD Spoilers

Show

where Xavion makes the claim about sorcerers being hated and feared, and then Xykon repeats it.

However we never (to my knowledge) actually see hatred or fear of sorcerers. Wizards seem to kook down upon them, and most other adventurers don't seem to care about them one way or the other. Heck, even Roy indicates in OtOoPCS

Spoiler: OtOoPCS Spoilers

Show

that he wants a sorcerer on the team.

I'm sure most common folk don't even really know the difference between wizards and sorcerers, just knowing they both cast spells.

And yet, if you think about it, all sorcerers (barring Fruit Pie) we have seen thus far in the main comic (Xykon, Nale, Qarr, Samantha) are Evil (and even Fruit Pie wanted to kill those poor allergic goblins).

[RatElemental]

Theoretically possible, as some have mentioned. But aside from the difficulties in getting Xykon to even think about reconsidering his worldview and the joy he takes in the suffering of others, there's also not really a whole lot you could do to restrain him in the process. Even if you managed to get his new boots away from him.

You'd need something like the Redeeming Sun to strip him of his power and then subject him to an intensive redemption course backed by subtle compulsions to make it stick to even have a chance at it.

[KorvinStarmast]

Is Xykon really the monster he claims to be

Yes. Reading SoD confirms what we already know from DCF where he kept tossing goblins at the gate to try and get data points ...

Could his evil be just a reaction to a world which hates and fears sorcerers or even a - very misguided - hidden request for love and acceptance?

Don't quit your day job to try and become a criminal defense lawyer.

And mabye could he still be redeemed?

Nope. Check out the strip with Miko and Soon right before Miko gets X's in her eyes. Rich spells out very clearly that redemption is a special thing, and that it requires admitting that you are wrong and the need to be sorry for the wrong you have done.

Xykon has never, on screen, expressed any such sentiment.

No sale.

[CriticalFailure]

What does "true evil" even mean? I don't think there is some essential quality of evil that certain people possess, even in hard alignment systems like d&d. Evil is harmful behaviors. People have different motives for being evil that may be harder or easier to correct. Xykon's motive for committing evil acts is a personality that has a severe lack of empathy and a tendency towards sadism. Based on his story, it appears that this lack of empathy jsut developed as part of his personality and is likely difficult or impossible to change (more than ever now that he is undead). Redcloak's motivations for committing evil acts are much more complicated and he is much more conflicted about them. Unlike Xykon, he has shown to be at least capable of empathy, though it seems his life experiences have left him emotionally stunted, and though vengeful he doesn't seem to be exceptionally sadistic. Overall he's much more likely to stop doing evil things than Xykon due to the differences in their motivation. But there isn't some "true evil" property.

[KorvinStarmast]

What does "true evil" even mean?

I guess you are right that it's subjective. On the other hand, he is the CEO of Team Evil.

[InvisibleBison]

Is Xykon evil?
Is Haley a woman?
Is Thor a god?
There are some questions that will just never be answered.

[brian 333]

Evil in OoTS is a thing, whether an energy or property, or whatever. It is detectable and it can interact with magic. It exists as something more than an adjective, and Xykon's full of it. He even had enough of it to imbue his crown with it.

[Dion]

Is Xykon evil?
Is Haley a woman?
Is Thor a god?
There are some questions that will just never be answered.

Is Banjo a puppet? It’s impossible to be sure.

[Vinyadan]

…which would make the artillery strike a Lawful Good, rather than True Neutral move, really.

Kinda like this: https://cad-comic.com/comic/proper-places/

[KorvinStarmast]

Is Banjo a puppet? It’s impossible to be sure.

It is possible to be sure.

@vinyadan: I have had the same problem with music CDs and my spouse for about as long as we've been married. (30+years) Had not thought of the crossbow as a solution

[Wizard_Lizard]

Literally everything I have seen has shown that yes. Yes. Xykon is truly evil. I think if anything, getting a room full of paladins to slaughter eachother and torturing the only survivor for ages is generally.. not a good thing...
Xykon is evil. We can discuss the morals of Malack or Redcloak, or heck, even Tarquin, but my god Xykon is just straight up evil.