What spell did Redcloak cast?

[EyethatBinds]

Because it certainly didn't function the way implosion did or has.
https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/implosion.htm

It seems like at least two rounds go by with Durkon being the sole target, he doesn't die instantly, and it appears in the last panel that he's injured. Since the spell is negated with a successful save and cannot be used on the same target in the same casting, it seems there's somehow a secondary effect.

Is there a different version of the spell being used?

[dancrilis]

There are theories.

1. It is standard implosion, it was all one round, Durkon's damage is merely visual from a fortitude save rather then hit point damage.
2. It is standard pathfinder implosion, it was all one round, Durkon's damage is hit point damage.
3. It is a custom version of the standard spell (like Xykon's Moderately Escapable Forcecage) - allowing targeting of the same person over multiple rounds, damage is merely visual from a fortitude save rather then hit point damage.
4. It is a custom version of the standard pathfinder spell (like Xykon's Moderately Escapable Forcecage) - allowing targeting of the same person over multiple rounds, damage is hit point loss.

I am personally of the opinion that option 4 suits best - but unless The Giant feels like explaining it (or has a character do it) then you can likely assume whatever you want safely.

[RMS Oceanic]

Vaarsuvius once cast Overland Flight on someone else when its range is personal.

This is one of those times where Rich has shifted the SRD effects for the sake of story.

[Justyz]

There are theories.

2. It is standard pathfinder implosion, it was all one round, Durkon's damage is hit point damage.

I think this is the one actually. In over 1,000 strips, you never got the "badass battle look" without proper injuries (=hit point loss). The comic is not consistent with DnD 3.5 (per Giant) but it is very consistent with itself, especially from the 2nd arc onwards.

Durkon was injured despite making the fortitude save. Maybe the sudden giant dwarf hitting the spellcaster with a hammer also gave him a big circumstance bonus.

[dancrilis]

I think this is the one actually. In over 1,000 strips, you never got the "badass battle look" without proper injuries (=hit point loss). The comic is not consistent with DnD 3.5 (per Giant) but it is very consistent with itself, especially from the 2nd arc onwards.

Durkon was injured despite making the fortitude save. Maybe the sudden giant dwarf hitting the spellcaster with a hammer also gave him a big circumstance bonus.

Standard Pathfinder doesn't do damage if the save is passed - but failure would (perhaps) not kill Durkon (it probably would actually kill him), a multi-round custom version would likely do less damage on any individual round or could do damage on a passed save (or both).

[Mightymosy]

Because it certainly didn't function the way implosion did or has.
https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/implosion.htm

It seems like at least two rounds go by with Durkon being the sole target, he doesn't die instantly, and it appears in the last panel that he's injured. Since the spell is negated with a successful save and cannot be used on the same target in the same casting, it seems there's somehow a secondary effect.

Is there a different version of the spell being used?

There are some people that people think that MitD could never be a specific monster species if that monster species didn't match the "size category" of D&d monster species, in other words, if MitD would fit with monster species except for size, than it would not be that species but instead this would be an entirely new species made up by Rich Burlew.

By that logic, I tell you what spell RC used: he used an ENTIRELY new spell invented by Rich Burlew

(yes, it may have some similarity with Implosion from actual D&d, including the word RC spells when he, well, casts the spell)

Does that make you content? :-)

[Ionathus]

Because it certainly didn't function the way implosion did or has.
https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/implosion.htm

It seems like at least two rounds go by with Durkon being the sole target, he doesn't die instantly, and it appears in the last panel that he's injured. Since the spell is negated with a successful save and cannot be used on the same target in the same casting, it seems there's somehow a secondary effect.

Is there a different version of the spell being used?

There's been a lot of analysis about this on the 1210 discussion thread, but my gut is telling me "either the first one, or Rich has modified the spell to fit the story he wants to tell," which is something Rich has already said he'll do if rules & story conflict.

In this same page, we see Minrah drop out of Wind Walk, cast a spell, and attack all in one turn, rather than the 5ish turns that ought to take. Either the Hammer of Loki Sucks gives her lots of sweet new abilities, or the rules have been bent for a cooler story.

Please note: I've seen the arguments and debates about Minrah's attack & Wind Walk and I really, really don't want to take a side there. Please do not engage me on that point as I don't have enough knowledge to debate it properly.

[johnbragg]

Standard Pathfinder doesn't do damage if the save is passed - but failure would (perhaps) not kill Durkon (it probably would actually kill him), a multi-round custom version would likely do less damage on any individual round or could do damage on a passed save (or both).

To make this clearer, PAthfinder implosion does 10*(Caster Level) damage on a failed save (so minimum 180 hp), and Durkon almost certainly doesn't have that many hit points, especially after a couple of level losses from resurrection / raise dead.

So The Giant is not using a standard SRD implosion spell description, either 3.5 or PAthfinder.

Credible Hulk Notes:
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/i/implosion/

This spell causes a destructive resonance in a corporeal creature’s body. Each round you concentrate (including the first), you can cause one creature to collapse in on itself, inflicting 10 points of damage per caster level. If you break concentration, the spell immediately ends, though any implosions that have already happened remain in effect. You can target a particular creature only once with each casting of the spell. Implosion has no effect on creatures in gaseous form or on incorporeal creatures.

[dancrilis]

In this same page, we see Minrah drop out of Wind Walk, cast a spell, and attack all in one turn, rather than the 5ish turns that ought to take. Either the Hammer of Loki Sucks gives her lots of sweet new abilities, or the rules have been bent for a cooler story.

Please note: I've seen the arguments and debates about Minrah's attack & Wind Walk and I really, really don't want to take a side there. Please do not engage me on that point as I don't have enough knowledge to debate it properly.

Your assertion that the rules have been bent or the hammer must be responsible followed by your clarification that you don't have the knowledge to discuss other options seems a bit odd to me.

To make this clearer, PAthfinder implosion does 10*(Caster Level) damage on a failed save (so minimum 180 hp), and Durkon almost certainly doesn't have that many hit points, especially after a couple of level losses from resurrection / raise dead.

So The Giant is not using a standard SRD implosion spell description, either 3.5 or PAthfinder.

Technically is Redcloak is still level 17 then it would do 170hp damage, and if Durkon gained a level or two from defeating not-Durkon and saving the Dwarves and has consistently rolled well on his HP per level and has a high constitution further boosted by items he could take 170hp.

To assume Level 14, CON 20 and an average hit points per level of 7.2 then he would end up with over 171 hit points before temporary hit point boosters (like the aid spell).

[Peelee]

Because it certainly didn't function the way implosion did or has.
https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/implosion.htm

It seems like at least two rounds go by with Durkon being the sole target, he doesn't die instantly, and it appears in the last panel that he's injured. Since the spell is negated with a successful save and cannot be used on the same target in the same casting, it seems there's somehow a secondary effect.

Is there a different version of the spell being used?

Sure. He cast Redcloak's Amazing Implosion Spell, which functions just like Implosion but is painful and lasts a bit. He cast it previously took, the comic just didn't focus on the time and pain because it wasn't necessary.

She made a wight with Tsukiko's Amazing Wight-Making Spell, which happens to have no verbal component. Who cares? I sure don't.

If you are looking for moment-to-moment rules accuracy from this comic, you probably should stop reading. You are guaranteed to be continually frustrated and disappointed, because I don't care about that at all.

[Jason]

It was Implosion. This just happens to be how Implosion works in Stickworld.
It's not like Durkon has a player who can pull up the rules and complain to the DM "that's not how Implosion works!"
Goblins aren't supposed to be Medium size, either, by the way, which I think Redcloak adjusting the size of his seat a few comics earlier was a head nod to.

[Ionathus]

Your assertion that the rules have been bent or the hammer must be responsible followed by your clarification that you don't have the knowledge to discuss other options seems a bit odd to me.

Minrah's attack was brought up alongside Implosion while people were discussing whether the rules were being bent. It was more like "here's another example of potential rules fudging, maybe Implosion is that too."

I was taking some nuggets gleaned from the 1210 discussion and sharing them here, but I don't speak them with authority. Essentially, "don't shoot the messenger."

[Synesthesy]

I bet that Reddie casted "Redcloak's Awesome Implosion That Last More Than One Round And That Will Moderately Injure on Failure", that has the word "Implosion" as somathic component.

[Brutalitops]

I think its likely durkon rolled really well on his save but just not well enough.

Redcloak probably slowed down the implosion to explain himself and to get durkon to admit he was an evil goblin murderer so he'd not feel as bad killing him and rejecting his deal.

So redcloak cherry tapped him then went to finish the spell but then minrah pulled a big damn heroes moment and saved him.

Or the spell was just altered for a cool moment.

[Nogster]

I'm a #2 guy myself. I think Durkon had death ward up and is at 1 hit point.

[Doctor West]

I bet that Reddie casted "Redcloak's Awesome Implosion That Last More Than One Round And That Will Moderately Injure on Failure", that has the word "Implosion" as somathic component.

Verbal. Somatic components are gestures.
Aside from that nitpick I have nothing to contribute that hasn't already been said: It works better as a story this way so the Giant fudged the exact details of how it works.

[hroþila]

Personally I took it as follows:
This is the standard Implosion spell. Implosion doesn't work on objects or the undead, so it must involve the manipulation of something within the living organism. If you can manipulate that something to kill the creature in one round, you can probably draw it out if you're careful enough in case you want to torture someone or ask them one last question.

This isn't RAW but it's not a stretch IMO.

[EyethatBinds]

Personally I took it as follows:
This isn't RAW but it's not a stretch IMO.

Except the spell gives no such explanation and during the other time Redcloak himself cast Implosion it took effect instantly. So every explanation here really is a stretch except one.

The Giant is just doing as he pleases with the rules in favor of showing an entertaining story. The spell names being shouted have as much meaning as a pro wrestler saying their attacks before making them. Consistency is not important when a story has a path.

[Jacky720]

I'm a #2 guy myself. I think Durkon had death ward up and is at 1 hit point.

Does Pathfinder Implosion have that Death tag that I recall 3.5 Implosion doesn't? If not, Death Ward shouldn't affect it.

Except the spell gives no such explanation and during the other time Redcloak himself cast Implosion it took effect instantly. So every explanation here really is a stretch except one.

The Giant is just doing as he pleases with the rules in favor of showing an entertaining story. The spell names being shouted have as much meaning as a pro wrestler saying their attacks before making them. Consistency is not important when a story has a path.

Specifically, consistency to external source works. Internal consistency is still moderately important.

[hroþila]

Except the spell gives no such explanation and during the other time Redcloak himself cast Implosion it took effect instantly. So every explanation here really is a stretch except one.

Pretty sure "This isn't RAW" covers that. There's no contradiction between something taking effect instantly and it being possible to draw it out if you so choose - it's just that 99% of the time you wouldn't choose to, as RAW are concerned with its use in combat.

[Quild]

It seems I have problems of understanding because of English not being my native tongue, but Redcloak does say in #1210:

I had previously thought of the excruciating pain you're suffering right now as an unfortunate side effect of me using the spell necessary to prevent you from being resurrected.


So isn't Redcloak using two spells on Durkon? Implosion and "Redcloak's Awesome Spell That Prevents From Being Resurrected And Does Damages"?

[Peelee]

It seems I have problems of understanding because of English not being my native tongue, but Redcloak does say in #1210:

I had previously thought of the excruciating pain you're suffering right now as an unfortunate side effect of me using the spell necessary to prevent you from being resurrected.


So isn't Redcloak using two spells on Durkon? Implosion and "Redcloak's Awesome Spell That Prevents From Being Resurrected And Does Damages"?

No. Implosion is Redcloak's Awesome Spell That Prevents From Being Resurrected And Does Damages.

[Nogster]

Does Pathfinder Implosion have that Death tag that I recall 3.5 Implosion doesn't? If not, Death Ward shouldn't affect it.

Honestly, unsure on all this. Here's another, very different descriptor of Implosion than most people are using here from d20pfsrd:

"This spell causes a destructive resonance in a corporeal creature’s body. Each round you concentrate (including the first), you can cause one creature to collapse in on itself, inflicting 10 points of damage per caster level. If you break concentration, the spell immediately ends, though any implosions that have already happened remain in effect. You can target a particular creature only once with each casting of the spell. Implosion has no effect on creatures in gaseous form or on incorporeal creatures."

This version seems to satisfy all the elements of the comic. The damage is high enough that those noobs from before would easily get splattered by Red Cloak while at the same time we can see why the effect on Durkon would be stretched out (bigger HP pool).

[Quild]

No. Implosion is Redcloak's Awesome Spell That Prevents From Being Resurrected And Does Damages.

This seems more far-fetched than my previous understanding, but why not.