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2020-08-11, 01:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1210 - The Discussion Thread
Last edited by Peelee; 2020-08-11 at 01:04 PM.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2020-08-11, 01:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1210 - The Discussion Thread
There are different kinds of redemption. One of the biggest problems for fixing OOTS world in that certain types of justice are contradictory.
I don't see this story ending with a final accounting of everyone's sins, I see the ending as a world where counting sins starts at all. If Redcloak stops doing evil stuff, that doesn't make him good (by most definitions), but it does make him better.
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2020-08-11, 01:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-08-11, 01:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1210 - The Discussion Thread
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2020-08-11, 01:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-08-11, 01:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1210 - The Discussion Thread
That's true, but that's a problem even with the plan as it now stands. Minrah has to use at least one combat round to wack Redcloak with Mjolnir before the two of them beat a hasty retreat. What if, while she was doing that, V was also present and using that same round to cast Grasping Hand, as you say? Or Hold Monster, or Dominate, or whatever spell would allow them to snatch up Redcloak and put him somewhere where they can deal with Xykon without his high-level cleric support.
He might make his saving throw, and it might be just one round before they have to clear out with the same loss of surprise for no gain, but it certainly feels like it would have been worth a try.
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2020-08-11, 01:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1210 - The Discussion Thread
Pound for pound one of the best posts in this thread. Top 5, for sure.
Not betting against.
That's not their objective, though. They need his spell. Being in a position where he will listen is their objective. Still a work in progress.
And it's at least progress, char dev wise. Not betting the over. He said a few strips back that he's pushed all of his chips onto the table).
He is literally all in. v(Darnit, I've been reading old bits, now I can't remember the sequence where he tells someone he's talking to that he had pushed all of his chips onto the table. Grr.Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2020-08-11 at 01:40 PM.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2020-08-11, 01:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-08-11, 01:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
Re: OOTS #1210 - The Discussion Thread
In order for it to be a strawman I would have take your point, misrepresent it and then attack that misrepresentation to claim some sort of 'victory' - I don't see how I have done any of that.
So perhaps I have missed your point, my assumption was you had no interest in stories dealing with the survivors (which is fine), I thought this based on the following (which I responded to):
Perhaps the issue is I don't know what you mean by spearholder (I assumed you meant some virtual randomer in the background but not an important character).
I should note that saying 'that's a strawman' can often be a strawman arguement if it effective is used to: take a point (whatever point might have been made), misrepresent it (by saying it is a strawman) and then attack that misrepresentation to claim some sort of 'victory' (such as ha you had to strawman my arguement).
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2020-08-11, 01:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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Re: OOTS #1210 - The Discussion Thread
Spoiler: Start of DarknessPretty sure they're not "peace talks" since the Dark One's army wasn't attacking anyone; it was more like the Dark One threatening to sic an army on them if they didn't meet his demands.
More to your point...Redcloak portrays the entire Plan as "turnabout is fair play" for the Dark One; I don't think Durkon specifically is going to get much acknowledgement from them.FeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
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2020-08-11, 01:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-08-11, 01:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1210 - The Discussion Thread
Judging from the lack of red or black damage marks on Redcloak, I'd wager somewhere north of "enough damage to break concentration" and somewhere south of "meaningful damage to end the fight."
I think the implication is that Redcloak isn't truly hurt (much), just shocked, and they need to get out of there.
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2020-08-11, 01:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-08-11, 01:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1210 - The Discussion Thread
Nah, it will never really occur to him I don't think. We as the readers will notice the irony, but the truth about RC here is that he is just to far gone to really be that self aware. To dedicated to The Plan at all costs, and to far along in his belief that nothing nothing he can do can be wrong so long as he does it for the "correct" reasons. Thor's clerics might get to enjoy a special custom named Righteous Might but RC's most special ability is Righteous Self Delusion.
Thanks to Linklele for my new avatar!
If i had superpowers. I would go to conventions dressed as myself, and see if i got complimented on my authenticity.
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2020-08-11, 01:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1210 - The Discussion Thread
We should've seen it coming.
Roy says "Has anyone seen Durkon?" but he didn't say "Has anyone seen Durkon or Minrah?" Plus, Durkon and Minrah were working together on that Sending spell to Redcloak, so they were in on it together from the start.The Giant says: Yes, I am aware TV Tropes exists as a website. ... No, I have never decided to do something in the comic because it was listed on TV Tropes. I don't use it as a checklist for ideas ... and I have never intentionally referenced it in any way.
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2020-08-11, 01:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1210 - The Discussion Thread
Implosion is not instantaneous. The death effect it causes is, but the spell itself is not.
Hmm, here's a thought exercise - 1 damage would be a DC of 20. If we knew Redcloak's concentration mod, we could calculate the damage Minrah dealt based on that.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2020-08-11, 01:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-08-11, 01:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-08-11, 01:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1210 - The Discussion Thread
FeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
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2020-08-11, 01:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1210 - The Discussion Thread
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2020-08-11, 01:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1210 - The Discussion Thread
Anyone else seeing the "Break Down" as a reference to the "Stop. Hammer time!" in the last panel? (MC Hammer, Can't Touch This) Took me a minute, but I genuinely laughed out loud at the subtlety and restraint of the whole thing.
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2020-08-11, 02:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-08-11, 02:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-08-11, 02:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-08-11, 02:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1210 - The Discussion Thread
So do you think Minrah followed Durkon without his knowledge or was Durkon's escape plan? I tend to think they were working together- hence Durkon's unwillingness to go inside when RC invite him.
Unrelated: the hammer is named Totally Head Obliterating Righteous Smash Hammer or T.H.O.R.S. Hammer for short.
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2020-08-11, 02:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1210 - The Discussion Thread
I admit, I'd not even considered the possibility that Implosion would prevent resurrection.
It makes sense if it really does compress you down into a singularity and not just crush you leaving a puddle of gore, though.
But these are the things I overlook when the last time I played AD&D was with sourcebooks bought in the mid-1980's.
Implosion didn't even exist as a spell back then.
Hell, "cleric spells" only went up to 7th lvl as the highest possible spell level, back then.
So many things I still have to adapt to.
On the other hand, I also don't read this with any expectation that it formally line up with rules.
I just want a good story. [EDIT: and I'm TOTALLY getting one.]Last edited by Mandor; 2020-08-11 at 02:18 PM.
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2020-08-11, 02:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1210 - The Discussion Thread
"Nae as many as ye..."
Right now, this is my contender for best line in OOTS.
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2020-08-11, 02:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1210 - The Discussion Thread
Your god won't be happy with you here, Wrong Eye...
And interesting, so either this is a single round and our (main) cleric hasn't rolled his save yet... or this world has a different Implosion than we're used to. Either work for me =P
Also, this proves Implosion in thie context does -not- leave a body behind, as some called before. I was on the other side of that guess, so I was just proved wrong XDYep, avatar by myself. ^^
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2020-08-11, 02:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1210 - The Discussion Thread
To put my whole 2 copper pieces in on the mechanics debate, I'd assert that Minrah likely had a readied action that went off when Redcloak cast the spell, that Minrah's casting of Thor's Might is an ability from the hammer that can be triggered as part of an attack action, and that Durkon never even had to make the Fortitude save against Implosion.
The pain and battle damage are just DM flavor.
Was that Rich's intent? Who knows. But it's plausible. ;)
On the much more interesting subject on where we're going from here, I... just realized I have no idea. :) I thought I had it all figured out by using Elan's Guide to Narrative Drama, because
Spoiler: Start of Darknessthe MitD Suggestion spell from Xykon only gets to apply if Redcloak turns on him, so it seemed likely that the Order would convince him. But I kinda forgot Redcloak's plan is to turn on Xykon anyway once TDO controls the Gate, so... big wow.
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2020-08-11, 02:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1210 - The Discussion Thread
#Let the power of Thor smite from hiiigheeeeeer...#
"They couldn't know that the points from the mainline to the siding were frozen, and the signal should have been set at 'DANGER', but snow had forced it down."
- The Flying Kipper