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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Nov 2010

    Default 3.5 Warforged: Simian Shape

    Long story short: I require a method of having ape-like Warforged, of Medium-size (not a Warforged Charger) or smaller. I need a concept very close to this to work, and be a balanced choice.

    Warforged Simian Racial Traits:
    • Living Construct Subtype (Ex): Warforged simians are constructs with the living construct subtype. Refer to the standard Warforged entry for additional details.
    • +2 Strength, +4 Constitution, -2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma. Warforged simians are stronger and tougher than standard warforged, but have similar mental attributes due to similar experience.
    • Medium-size.
    • Warforged simian base land speed is 40 feet.
    • Simian Shape: Warforged simains are naturally quadrupeds. As a quadruped, your load capacity is increased, and gain appropriate bonuses such as against bull rush or trip attempts.
    You cannot perform actions that would require both hands simultaneously, hold an item in each hand, or hold an object larger than a light weapon.
    As a swift action, you can rear onto your legs, and act as a biped. While reared, you can use both hands simultaneously, or wield two-handed weapons, but your base land speed is halved (rounding up). You may return to a quadrupedal stance as a free action.
    • Powerful Build: The physical stature of a warforged simian lets it function in many ways as if it were one size category larger. Refer to the Goliath entry for additional details.
    • Composite Plating: The plating used to build a warforged simian provides a +2 armor bonus, a 5% arcane spell failure chance, and is treated as light armor. Refer to the standard Warforged entry for additional details.
    • Light Fortification (Ex): When a critical hit or sneak attack is scored on a warforged simian, there is a 25% chance that the critical hit or sneak attack is negated and damage is instead rolled normally.
    • Natural Attack: A warforged simian has a natural weapon in the form of a slam attack that deals 1d6 points of damage.
    • Gifted Climber: A warforged simian's body style grants a +4 racial bonus to Climb checks.
    • Automatic Languages: Common. Bonus Languages: None.
    • Favored Class: Fighter. A multiclass warforged simian's fighter class does not count when determining whether it takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing.
    • Level Adjustment: +1.

    Simian Shape [Warforged]
    This warforged is more ape-like than humanoid in its construction. Your arms are noticeably longer and sturdier, and your legs are shorter.
    Prerequisites: Warforged, 1st level only.
    Benefit: You become a quadruped, and your base land speed is increased by 10 ft. As a quadruped, your load capacity is increased, and gain appropriate bonuses such as against bull rush or trip attempts.
    You cannot perform actions that would require both hands simultaneously, hold an item in each hand, or hold an object larger than a light weapon.
    As a swift action, you can rear onto your legs, and act as a biped. While reared, you can use both hands simultaneously, or wield two-handed weapons, but your base land speed is halved (rounding up). You may return to a quadrupedal stance as a free action.
    In addition, you gain a +2 racial bonus to Climb checks.
    Special: Unlike most feats, this feat must be taken at 1st level, during character creation.

    *

    So, as a single Feat, you gain +10 to base speed (which improved Jump checks), improved Encumbrance, better defense against things like Bull Rush or Trip, and a +4 to Climb.

    But you can only use 1 hand. Unless you want to stand up.

    How do I reign this in, while keeping the essence of this? Or is this underpowered, and need to punch it up by adding an AC bonus or something?

    Help?[/S]

    [edit]

    Prefer the Race approach.
    Last edited by Adamantrue; 2020-09-07 at 09:27 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: 3.5 Warforged Feat: Simian Shape

    I think it's fine, personally. Some would argue that the +4 to climb is a bit strong compared to other feats that grant skill bonuses, but being good at climbing is mostly flavour in a game with so many ways to access spiderclimb, flight etc, so it hardly matters.
    Last edited by paddyfool; 2020-08-14 at 07:05 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Librarian in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: 3.5 Warforged Feat: Simian Shape

    I might add a mobility penalty when using non-light, one-handed weapons... Harder to move swiftly and adroitly if you've got three feet of steel held in one of your feet.
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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Nov 2010

    Default Re: 3.5 Warforged Feat: Simian Shape

    I think it's fine, personally. Some would argue that the +4 to climb is a bit strong compared to other feats that grant skill bonuses, but being good at climbing is mostly flavour in a game with so many ways to access spiderclimb, flight etc, so it hardly matters.
    I wouldn't be opposed to turning it down. I don't think going lower than +2 would be worth including, though.
    I might add a mobility penalty when using non-light, one-handed weapons... Harder to move swiftly and adroitly if you've got three feet of steel held in one of your feet.
    Instead of a penalty, I could include it in the restrictions. Its just simpler to limit it to Light Weapons than to make them constantly recalculate their movement rate.

    *

    Would this concept work better as a racial variant of Warforged, like the Warforged Scout?

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Maat Mons's Avatar

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    May 2018

    Default Re: 3.5 Warforged: Simian Shape

    Instead of using swift/free actions to switch modes, maybe just have the bonuses apply automatically whenever you're not holding anything in your hands. This sort of has precedent in Gruwaar, from Dragon 317.

    For, the bonuses, I'd just directly rip off baboon. Land speed becomes 40 feet, gain a climb speed of 30 feet (with consequent +8 on Climb checks, and ability to take 10 on Climb), and all those quadruped benefits.

    Alternately, if you want it to be less powerful, you could reduce land speed to 20 feet except when on all fours.

    I'd say the biggest problem is that this isn't compatible with any of the feats that alter your composite plating, unless the DM allows flaws.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    nonsi's Avatar

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    Default Re: 3.5 Warforged: Simian Shape

    .
    You should specify natural attack for this variant.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Nov 2010

    Default Re: 3.5 Warforged: Simian Shape

    Lets try that different approach:

    Warforged Simian Racial Traits:
    • Living Construct Subtype (Ex): Warforged simians are constructs with the living construct subtype. Refer to the standard Warforged entry for additional details.
    • +2 Strength, +4 Constitution, -2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma. Warforged simians are stronger and tougher than standard warforged, but have similar mental attributes due to similar experience.
    • Medium-size.
    • Warforged simian base land speed is 40 feet.
    • Simian Shape: Warforged simains are naturally quadrupeds. As a quadruped, your load capacity is increased, and gain appropriate bonuses such as against bull rush or trip attempts.
    You cannot perform actions that would require both hands simultaneously, hold an item in each hand, or hold an object larger than a light weapon.
    As a swift action, you can rear onto your legs, and act as a biped. While reared, you can use both hands simultaneously, or wield two-handed weapons, but your base land speed is halved (rounding up). You may return to a quadrupedal stance as a free action.
    • Powerful Build: The physical stature of a warforged simian lets it function in many ways as if it were one size category larger. Refer to the Goliath entry for additional details.
    • Composite Plating: The plating used to build a warforged simian provides a +2 armor bonus, a 5% arcane spell failure chance, and is treated as light armor. Refer to the standard Warforged entry for additional details.
    • Light Fortification (Ex): When a critical hit or sneak attack is scored on a warforged simian, there is a 25% chance that the critical hit or sneak attack is negated and damage is instead rolled normally.
    • Natural Attack: A warforged simian has a natural weapon in the form of a slam attack that deals 1d6 points of damage.
    • Gifted Climber: A warforged simian's body style grants a +4 racial bonus to Climb checks.
    • Automatic Languages: Common. Bonus Languages: None.
    • Favored Class: Fighter. A multiclass warforged simian's fighter class does not count when determining whether it takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing.
    • Level Adjustment: +1.

    *

    TLDR, this gives a Warforged:
    +2 to Str and Con
    Powerful Build (improving the Slam attack)
    Quadruped bonuses akin to the initial Feat concept
    +4 Climb bonus

    All for a LA of +1.

    Does this work better than the initial concept of using a Feat? How balanced does this look?
    Last edited by Adamantrue; 2020-08-27 at 12:27 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    nonsi's Avatar

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    Default Re: 3.5 Warforged: Simian Shape

    .
    Ok, now you need to deal with damage increase by level and multiple attacks when BAB exceeds +5.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: 3.5 Warforged: Simian Shape

    If you're looking for precedent in the official rules, the Desmodu in Monster Manual II has a gallop speed. The wording is just 20 foot base speed in the stat line, and 40 feet when galloping, plus a little blurb later in the entry detailing that it must have its hands free to gallop. No other benefits or penalties based around quadrepedal movement. I believe elsewhere it said that they tend to get quick draw, so they can gallop, draw, and attack in one turn (I believe it even counts as a charge).
    Last edited by sengmeng; 2020-08-29 at 11:25 AM.
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  10. - Top - End - #10
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Nov 2010

    Default Re: 3.5 Warforged: Simian Shape

    Ok, now you need to deal with damage increase by level and multiple attacks when BAB exceeds +5.
    Huh? Why? I haven't seen that with other Warforged.

    If you're looking for precedent in the official rules, the Desmodu in Monster Manual II has a gallop speed. The wording is just 20 foot base speed in the stat line, and 40 feet when galloping, plus a little blurb later in the entry detailing that it must have its hands free to gallop. No other benefits or penalties based around quadrepedal movement. I believe elsewhere it said that they tend to get quick draw, so they can gallop, draw, and attack in one turn (I believe it even counts as a charge).
    So I have two different models to go with, between the Desmodu and the Grunwaar, and they both take a different approach to what I'm doing & slightly different from each other.

    I think I like my approach better, for the purposes I'm going for. This style of Warforged is supposed to be primarily used as mounts, beasts of burden, and specialized work for a project. As such, the improved Load Capacity is meant to be an actual feature, and I like the way there's a sort of trade-off for it.

    I'm definitely also thinking I prefer the Race to the Feat.

    Anyone think there's a problem with the balance, especially the LA?

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