New Mutants — Finally In Theaters?

[Rogar Demonblud]

Last I checked, Marvel was up to something like 200 named alien species.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

If you’re talking the Marvel comics universe, there are many dozens of alien races seen in the pages of X-Men alone, and probably hundreds more across other titles.

Definitely a good reason to be worrying about them instead of occasional instances of spontaneous super powers then.

I’m almost afraid to ask.

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Spider-Queen and the Jackal IIRC. Spider-Queen apparently has the power to control Spider-man, so she and Jackal infected everyone in New York with a virus that gave them Spider-man’s powers...along with whatever gene let her control him.

[Tyrant]

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Re: Xyril

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That bit has always been a bit hand-wavey, even before House of M, at which point it didn't really seem important to explore (in setting.) The X-gene is heritable, but it was also continuing to arise spontaneously, in parallel, in millions of people with no clear common ancestry (above and beyond any other random group of people.) I vaguely recall one of the comics or other media claiming that the rate of spontaneous mutation was accelerating. It seemed possible--likely even--that the "replacement" of humanity wouldn't be about your kids being replaced by the children of some immigrant race or minority ethnic group. Rather, it would be that eventually, your grandchildren or your great grandchildren would become mutants due as they get their turn to have the shockingly specific random genetic mutations.

Much like Captain America's shield, the X-Gene doesn't really listen to science. Unless they intend to reveal that every mutant (not just a few random ones here and there, like it is now) is a descendant of Apocalypse (or Selene I suppose), there won't ever be a common ancestor. It's a random mutation (that leads to random powers) in the human genetic code. Earth X had a unifying theory but it isn't canon to the 616. It's also possible for mutants to have non-mutant kids. Graydon Creed is the son of Mystique and Sabretooth and is not a mutant. All I'm saying is arguing that the genetics of the X-Gene not making much sense doesn't really counter the argument presented in Marvel. Their argument is based on the sketchy science of the X-Gene and their universe has to deal with that.

Except we don't just "shrug them off." We expect our governments to do everything in their power to neutralize these threats and to prevent their proliferation.

Do we though? Without going down the political rabbit hole, I think an objective look at the popular conscience when it comes to nukes is that they are somehow, magically, not a problem anymore. Or at least not on the level they were in say, the 1950's to the early 1990's. A lot of people, and pop culture, seem to like to act like a possible nuclear war is a thing of the past. There are no serious anti nuclear movements or disarmament movements. The world only seems to be concerned when a one of a very small number of countries sabre rattle about trying to get them. We have learned to live with them.

And that is part of my point. They are a known threat. We've had decades to figure out how to come to terms with the fact that a series of sketchy decisions could lead to nuclear annihilation. And for the most part, people have moved on to other concerns. War is a possibility we learned to live with a very long time ago. We understand the threat and it's potential outcomes. A genuine threat to human dominance isn't something any human society has had to seriously deal with since there was such a thing as society. It's a threat unlike any other. That some people react very strongly (and potentially irrationally) towards it shouldn't be a surprise.

The whole threat of mutants isn't that they'd replace or enslave our descendants, but that they'd eventually change the definition of what it means to be human. In that sense, the X-men and the MCU portions of the comic universe are again at odds.

I'm relatively certain that the threat is enslavement/replacement/destruction. No one seems to be concerned about no longer being considered human. Mutants are mutant and proud, not humans plus. People like Magneto make their intentions very clear, and it isn't to be the "true humans", it's to kill or enslave flatscans. Humans are dominant and they don't plan to give that up without a fight.

However, I don't think that's true. People kept pursuing the supersoldier program, trying to replicate the original formula. In fact, in several storylines, when offered the capacity to drastically "improve" humanity on a biological level, people often embraced the possibility of change.

The super soldier program was to create super soldiers, not alter the general populace. Captain America is a one off. If suddenly you had lots of soldiers like that, the general populace would turn against them. Unless they offered it to everyone. In that case, everyone is still theoretically on a similar playing field. If not, you have a lot of former soldiers entering civilian life with obvious physical advantages above and beyond what being a soldier for a few years can give you. That will lead to resentment from the people who are displaced by those guys. Not to mention, given the time frame, there won't be any women given the treatment. That's another point of contention. I imagine most of them would also be Caucasian. It would real quickly lead to wondering who really won the war. And that's only in the U.S. The other countries aren't going to look on this too fondly either. That gets worse if the U.S. starts giving the treatment to civilians and enhances most of the populace. That puts the people of one country above every other. That leads to some of the same issues as mutants (notably not the random mutation spontaneously arising). Other countries would probably build Sentinels to fight them.

I was being hyperbolic. You're right that it's probably doable, but it would be tricky--especially for the more mainstream fandom of the MCU. People who grew up on comics or got very into the superhero comic genre as a whole have learned to accept certain conventions of the genre--especially the more reality warping ones--that tend to be a bit less accepted in others. I think the MCU has done a great job bringing in all of the genre elements that defined the comics, while sometimes scaling back a bit to keep things accessible to a more mainstream audience. (In particular, I've always thought they do a great job having that sense of sprawling continuity and interconnectedness, while keeping most movies and series understandable worthwhile even with zero background knowledge.) I feel like the Snap is pretty much as far as they could push it, and I think that might not have worked without all of the setup showing what a singular threat/resource the infinity stones represented.

I think they can push things beyond the Snap. I agree that the build up was critical to the general audience accepting the idea. But now we are in a post-Snap cinematic universe. And a post time travel cinematic universe. Possibly soon, a post alternate reality cinematic universe. They are laying the steps to lean in more and more into comic book ideas. I think there is a limit, but I am not sure where it is.

Re: Kareeah_Indaga

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Arguable, but I acknowledge Spider Island was someone else’s fault.

Random storylines not withstanding was apparently a disclaimer I should have added. To be honest I expected someone to point out that Peter does have kids in a lot of timelines and they are super powered.

...except this is the Marvel universe where the Kree and Skrulls exist. And probably a dozen other intelligent alien races that I’m unaware of. And yet no one seems to be making much fuss about any of them, even though the average mutant has less incentive to destroy the Earth, because the average mutant lives on it. The average mutant can have non-mutant parents, siblings, or friends. The average mutant doesn’t even know they are a mutant until they get their powers.

Put another way, Magneto wants to destroy baseline humans because baseline humans tried to kill him. The Chitauri didn’t need an excuse. So I’m not really seeing any ‘primal level threat’ that doesn’t exist elsewhere in the Marvel ‘verse in greater quantities.

The Kree and the Skrulls (and any other aliens) are a different kind of threat. That's an invading, hostile power. That's war. Humans understand war. Not everyone has first hand experience, but virtually everyone understand the concept and the general ideas behind it. A new contender for dominance of the planet arising from within the ranks of humanity isn't something anyone has had to deal with since humans achieved dominance. I assume the average person in Marvel that is aware of those races assumes the various governments and people like the Avengers are standing ready to fight them. And if push comes to shove, the average person probably thinks they will fight them in the streets or something. How do you physically fight evolution?

[137beth]

The AV Club says they will not review The New Mutants.

[JadedDM]

I don't blame them. I'm really looking forward to this film, but it's not worth the risk to see it in theaters. I'll wait.

[tomandtish]

The AV Club says they will not review The New Mutants.

A lot of reviewers are saying that because they aren't being given any way to review it ahead of time and safely. There's no digital screener, and no early screen release for reviewers.

Of course, there's also the consideration that 9 times out of 10, when a studio doesn't let reviewers have an opportunity to review ahead of time then the studio expects the movie to be a flop.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by JadedDM
I don't blame them. I'm really looking forward to this film, but it's not worth the risk to see it in theaters. I'll wait.

I'm on the fence. I've been looking forward to this for a couple of years now, and while I'm well aware this may not be worth a fraction of the hype, ...gorrammit, I haven't been to see a movie in nearly a year, and I really miss it.

Also, in my case I know my local theater, and often enough when I'm in a Tuesday matinee I'm one of just two or three people there. Assuming that holds true next week, I just might give it a try.

[JadedDM]

Even if there are only a handful of people in the theater, I'd say it's still an unnecessary risk.

Consider: Even if you wear a mask and you make sure you don't sit near anyone else, a movie theater is an enclosed space with poor ventilation (no windows and usually the doors are kept closed during the movie). And if anyone has concessions (or they smuggled in their own stuff), they will be taking their masks off to eat and drink. Short of renting out the entire theater to yourself, I wouldn't risk it, personally.

[Palanan]

Hm. Those are good points.

[Rogar Demonblud]

My state just went past 40% positivity rates on their Covid tests AGAIN. You couldn't pay me to go to a theater at this point.

[Kitten Champion]

There's also more evidence that suggests C-19 lingers in the air for some time especially in poorly ventilated areas such as a theatre, which is discouraging in a year chalk full of discouragement.

I don't know why they're doing this to be honest. I can only surmise that Kareeah Indaga is correct and it's for some contractual reasons. As Disney's already shown they're willing to bring scheduled cinematic releases to Disney+ instead - be it Onward, Artemis Fowl, or even Mulan (2020) albeit with a different model. It's not like The New Mutants is Black Widow or anything. It's a movie now most renowned for its long-time production issues, for following on the heels of Dark Phoenix's immense failure, and serving as the last embers for a cinematic universe that's well and truly dead.

I love New Mutants - the 80's comics at least - and I enjoy different takes on Superhero fiction, so this is a movie that is definitely aimed at me... but I was already expecting to watch it at home essentially since the time Disney bought Fox and I'm definitely already used to waiting.

[Psyren]

No movie is worth that kind of risk imo. I'll be waiting until its available on streaming. I'm sure everyone is watching D+'s model with bated breath.

[Palanan]

Yeah, it comes down to unnecessary risk, with the key word being "unnecessary." There are a lot of people in my area who don't get how to wear a mask, or who just don't think it's needed.

As for why Disney is doing this--as mentioned earlier, this is probably one of the safer options to test the theatergoing market, since they can't have imagined they'd make much money on this one no matter what happened. I wouldn't be surprised if it flatlined at the theater and was pulled the first week.

It's awful to say that, because I don't really think there's anything wrong with the movie, apart from riding the frayed coattails of the single worst movie in the mutant franchise. I'm expecting to enjoy it, but later than hoped for, and safely at home.

[Rogar Demonblud]

My guess is that it'll go for the standard two week starter period (which will also get it whatever holiday dollars there are) and then it'll get pulled.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Somebody went and reviewed it.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Sounds about like what I expected. Perhaps the freakiest horror story in comics the decade it was published gets processed until blander than imitation vanilla pudding.

Oh well, at least Maisie's back for the new season of Gen:Lock.

[Tyrant]

If you want to go to the movies and you have the option, go to a drive-in. It's how I have been able to watch movies over the summer. I bring my own snacks and drinks to avoid having to interact with anyone. Sure two of the movies I have watched like that are almost as old as I am and one was four years older than me. But, the ones around me have also been running that new Russell Crowe movie. Hopefully this will end up at one of them. Fortunately I have a few of them within driving distance.

[Rogar Demonblud]

There's also the S&M 2 concert tour.

[Ramza00]

Oh this is delicious. Bob McLeod is one of the two Co-Creators of the original New Mutants of the 80s, he was the artist and thus responsible for the unique art style.

Well he has finally seen the movie 🎥 and he has several disappointments that he is posting on the Internet. One of the disappointments is that even with 3 years of re-edits they still can not spell his name right!

At the end of the two paragraphs Bob states he is done with this movie.

https://twitter.com/mcleodbob

Also Bill Sienkiewicz and Chris Claremont are angry about this 😤

[Talakeal]

I saw it.

Surprisingly good. Not great, but definitely above the median for a Fox superhero movie.

No idea why they have been sitting on this for three years.

No connection to the MCU, barely any connection to the X-men, no surpsie reveals or big twists or cameos. No post credit scene.

This is also the fourth movie that they have hinted at Mr. Sinister being behind the scenes, but he is not actually in the movie. That is a lot of setup that is never going to get paid off.

[HandofShadows]

From what I have heard earlier cuts of the film were not good and there were people fighting to get a better version put together.

[Rogar Demonblud]

The short version is that the director wrote a script, FOX told him to re-write, he shot most of the script instead (apparently he tried to sneak in a topless scene, probably as a Brown M&M rider), FOX told him to do the rewrites and reshoot, or they'd fire him and have somebody else completely reshoot (this was a very cheap film, especially compared to the other X-films) and essentially both sides just stood around saying am-not/are-too until Disney took over and basically tossed the film out the door just to get rid of it.

What were those re-writes, you ask? The big one was more ties to the main films, and properly setting up Mr Sinister. And getting rid of the Storm-as-sadistic-warden bit (which was scrapped due to runtime issues). And a small matter or Roberto and Cecilia Reyes needing darker skin color (FOX being FOX, not for accuracy to the comics but for making the film look more diverse).

So at least partly the studio wanted to fix things that are what people are complaining about. Add that to the issues around the Trank F4 movie and it's a little hard to argue against studio interference.

[Gallowglass]

Went and saw it:

Plot synopsis, play by play, ****SPOILERS BELOW***

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Movie opens with Dani Moonstar being woken up by her father in a panic. They run out of their house and into what appears to be an evil tornado. Dani has no idea what is going on. Her father deposits her in a tree and goes back to help others then promptly dies, his body flung in front of her, she screams, sees something in the storm, then gets whalloped and knocked unconscious.

She wakes up chained to a bed in what appears to be an anbandoned asylum/hospital. She is met by Cecelia Reyes, the only staff of the entire complex who explains that her entire reservation was wiped out and she survived because she's a mutant.

She is introduced to the other four "patients" in a trite roundtable therapy session. Illyana Rasputin, a teenage russian sexpot who sometimes talks through a dragon muppet on her hand she calls Lockheed. Roberta DaCosta a brazilian bro complete with perpetual popped collar, Sam Guthrie, a kentucky hick with a black eye and a broken arm, and Rahne, a scottish Stark-child

Her and Rahne immediately click. This turns into a full fledged sexual romance later on.

Illyana, who is mean and cruel, takes her for a tour of the place and convinces her to try a run for it. She does and breaks her nose on the invisible shield surrounding the place. The shield is Cecelia's mutant power.

They slowly introduce the core damage of the five kids. Sam killed his dad and his entire workcrew in a coal mine when he panicked and blasted. Bobby burned his girlfriend alive when he tried to have sex with her. Illyana, they never overtly explain, but it looks like she fell into hell as a kid and was raised there in some manner or another (or was just systematically abused growing up). Rahne turned into a wolf, panicked, told her priest who branded her with a W for witch (which upside down is of course an M for mutant)

The kids think that they are at a hospital to learn to control their powers so that the mystery benefactor will promote them into the X-men. However, the place is actually controlled by the mysterious Essex Enterprises.

Cecelia doesn't know what Dani's powers are. Which caused problem because when she goes to sleep, the others nightmares come to life. Faceless smiling demons dressed like bad russian gangsters hunt them at one point out of Illyana's dreams. Roberto thinks Illyana is seducing him in the pool, but its actually his burned up ex girlfriend. Ad naseum.

Oh yeah, the naked scene is in a shower and involves Rahne and Dani which, gross, because they both look 12 years old.

Eventually, Cecelia is told to put Dani down. She drugs her and talks about how her mother was a vet and had to put down her childhood dog and this is the same, trying to talk herself into it.

Rahne knows through her Dani sense that something is wrong and comes in and cuts Cecelia up real bad. She runs and Rahne "rescues" the half-unconscious Dani.

The kids decide to hunt down Cecelia and find her and she almost kills them with her shrinking energy shields.

Here's where it gets super crazy. With Dani knocked out, her personal demon, a 40' tall smoke demon bear comes out and starts trying to kill everyone. The other four kids have to play keep away, each one having a turn to keep Dani away from the bear. Illyana goes full "Magick" complete with soul sword and her dragon muppet coming to live as Lockheed and does most of the heavy lifting.

Sam manages to blast once or twice, and Bobby manages to hit the thing with a church pew. But nothing is effective until Dani confronts her fear by hugging her dream dad and comes to and pets the bear on the nose says "No! Bad Bear" and dispatches it.

Cecelia was already eaten by the bear at that point.

IN the rubble of the hospital the decide to walk to town together.

The end. No seriously.

Thoughts:

It wasn't as bad as I expected, but I had super low expectations. I think they did a really good job with Cannonball's powers and a really crappy job with Bobby's. Illyana was super annoying but I guess she was supposed to be.

It was a cerebral story, about the damage done to children, and the terrors of adolescence. Which, I guess, is the point. It in no way resembled an actual super-hero movie (which is cool) until the entirely too long and too pat battle with the demon bear at the end which was sadly straight up super hero brawling.

Cecelia's "turn" didn't feel believable. She turned into a mustache swirling bad guy real fast.

I kind of like Rahne as team leader. Completely different dynamic than in the comic, but it worked. Movie Rahne is comic Dani and movie Dani is comic Rahne.

The only mention of the X-men is when the kids think they are being groomed for it. There is no mention of Illyana being Collosus' sister.

Lockheed was awesome. More Lockheed.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I am suddenly reminded that about the only good part of Inhumans was a certain teleporting bulldog.

[Psyren]

Gallowglass, I think there's a bunch of stuff outside your spoiler that could go inside it.

[Dragonus45]

Just saw it today.

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I liked it a great deal, it was a bit basic but the characters were interesting and the visuals were well shot. Magik in specific is magnificent, the rest are okish to pretty good, and it had an gay romance that not only didn't send me screaming from the theater in pure frustration at it's lazy inclusion but actually managed to rise to the level of having actual chemistry. That was nice.