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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: Rules for what are groups of people called?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonecrusher Doc View Post
    So New Yorkers are only from New York city, while people from other parts of the state of New York are...?

    I wish there was a difference, but people from Washington State and people from Washington, DC are both called "Washingtonians."

    You just have to infer from context. In fact, in the state of Washington people frequently say they are from "Washington State" to make things clear. Whereas people from Oregon of course don't say, "I'm from Oregon State."

    I don't suppose it would make sense to insist that people from Washington DC call themselves Columbians!
    Maybe they should be Capitolists.
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  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: Rules for what are groups of people called?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Maybe they should be Capitolists.
    Hillists? DeeCeesians?

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: Rules for what are groups of people called?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonecrusher Doc View Post
    So New Yorkers are only from New York city, while people from other parts of the state of New York are...?
    How about new Yorkers and New Yorkians as well as Washingtoners and Washingtonians?
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: Rules for what are groups of people called?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Maybe they should be Capitolists.
    In my experience people who actually have to live in DC just call themselves "miserable".

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: Rules for what are groups of people called?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    In my experience people who actually have to live in DC just call themselves "miserable".
    Maybe they would be happier if they were able to have roads instead of a lot of interconnected lines of potholes.
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  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: Rules for what are groups of people called?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    How about new Yorkers and New Yorkians as well as Washingtoners and Washingtonians?
    Since they were amongst the first to legalize certain recreational drug in the US, maybe the appropriate name should be Washingstoners.
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  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: Rules for what are groups of people called?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Maybe they would be happier if they were able to have roads instead of a lot of interconnected lines of potholes.
    They just need to be introduced to Detroit roads. Everything seems better when you have something horrible to compare it to.

    Speaking of DC, I find that now that I live in relative proximity thereto that I confuse people when I mention that my wife is from "north west Washington". Seems that the north-west side of the capitol district is rather a crime ridden slum. I think I have stared a half dozen people down in confusion over this.
    Last edited by Rockphed; 2020-10-06 at 10:06 PM.
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    Rockphed said it well.
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  8. - Top - End - #38
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: Rules for what are groups of people called?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockphed View Post
    They just need to be introduced to Detroit roads. Everything seems better when you have something horrible to compare it to.

    Speaking of DC, I find that now that I live in relative proximity thereto that I confuse people when I mention that my wife is from "north west Washington". Seems that the north-west side of the capitol district is rather a crime ridden slum. I think I have stared a half dozen people down in confusion over this.
    Maybe try a different route. Something like "Southern Canada. Really southern."
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  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: Rules for what are groups of people called?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Maybe try a different route. Something like "Southern Canada. Really southern."
    I mean I could change to saying "the Puget sound", but I feel like continuing to confuse people.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wardog View Post
    Rockphed said it well.
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  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: Rules for what are groups of people called?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    How about new Yorkers and New Yorkians as well as Washingtoners and Washingtonians?
    We prefer New Yorkers while the city prefers New Yaw-kas.
    Last edited by Scarlet Knight; 2020-10-09 at 01:48 PM.
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  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: Rules for what are groups of people called?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlet Knight View Post
    Hmm; as a New Yorker living outside the city I don't find that in my region. Are you from Long Island?

    Plus you have me thinking about how NYC people often like to refer to themselves by borough : Brooklynite, Staten Islander, Manhattanite. Funny how people from Queens & the Bronx refer to themselves as "Queens residents" and "from da Bronx" respectively.
    Well, we "Queenian" or "Queenite" sounds dumb and if we just call ourselves "Queens", that implies something else entirely.

    But seriously, at least for Queens in particular, we often think of ourselves as being from particular neighborhoods: Astoria, Jackson Heights, Forest Hills, Rego Park, etc. Even on our mail, we write "Astoria, NY" not "Queens, NY" (unlike Brooklynites or are more likely to just put "Brooklyn, NY"). So we are more likely to use group names that reflect that (eg "Astorian"). Can't speak for how they do it in the Bronx.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonecrusher Doc View Post
    So New Yorkers are only from New York city, while people from other parts of the state of New York are...?
    Not to be discussed unless absolutely necessary.

    Though I suppose, again, people mostly identify with a region or town in that case, like Albanite or... what would call someone from Buffalo anyway? Buffalonian?

    Though it doesn't get too much worse than the nickname people from my home state of Massachusetts got stuck with....

  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: Rules for what are groups of people called?

    People from Bozeman, montana are called bozos.

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: Rules for what are groups of people called?

    Quote Originally Posted by TexasSkiandFish View Post
    People from Bozeman, montana are called bozos.
    That's no way to talk about Zefram Cochrane!
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  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: Rules for what are groups of people called?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey Watcher View Post
    Though it doesn't get too much worse than the nickname people from my home state of Massachusetts got stuck with....
    Matt Damon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    That's no way to talk about Zefram Cochrane!
    "Don't try to be a Bozeman. Just be a bozo. And let history decide."
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  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: Rules for what are groups of people called?

    Some of my favourites:

    Savoy -> Savoyard
    Manchester -> Mancunian
    Monaco -> Monégasque
    Barbados -> Bajan
    Netherlands -> Dutch
    East London -> Cockney

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    The "-ard" onn "Savoyard" is just a marginally unusual ending, comparable to "Lombard"

    Mancunian is a fairly modern coinage from the supposed Roman name for the town, Mancunium. "Manchester" itself purports at a Roman origin, as all -chester, -cester or -caster towns and cities do (being Anglicised versions of caestrum, a Roman army camp.

    Monegasque is from the name for the town in the old native Romance language, translated into French.

    Bajan derives from Barbados by a series of successive shortenings and then affricating the middle consonant.

    "Dutch" simply means "the people" in that language (as in German). More of the issue here is that the modern Netherlands neither contains the whole of the Dutch-speaking people, nor the whole of the Netherlands. Like the USA, it's a collection of states which owes its unity to historic political factors more than anything else. So neither name is really all that satisfactory for it, but there's also not a lot else. ("Holland" is commonly used in English instead, which is at least geographically specific, but a bit like calling the USA "New York").

    No idea where "Cockney" comes from. Though true Cockneys are increasingly an endangered species in any case.
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  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Default Re: Rules for what are groups of people called?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aedilred View Post
    No idea where "Cockney" comes from. Though true Cockneys are increasingly an endangered species in any case.
    I've read somewhere that "cockney" comes through a circuitous route from some 1600's slang or something like that, where people from "the big cities" were called "cockled eggs" because they were too soft or something.

  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Default Re: Rules for what are groups of people called?

    I am from Maine, and to us, their are two types of people. Mainers, being obviously people from Maine, and From Away, being everyone else.
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  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Default Re: Rules for what are groups of people called?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vizzerdrix View Post
    I am from Maine, and to us, their are two types of people. Mainers, being obviously people from Maine, and From Away, being everyone else.
    Fun fact! The rest of the US has a different way to call people from Maine. Specifically, they are called "wait, people live in Maine? What, like, 10 people? More? REALLY?!"
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  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Default Re: Rules for what are groups of people called?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Fun fact! The rest of the US has a different way to call people from Maine. Specifically, they are called "wait, people live in Maine? What, like, 10 people? More? REALLY?!"
    See, these ten are the main Mainers, they're mainly there to manage the mainland.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  20. - Top - End - #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Fun fact! The rest of the US has a different way to call people from Maine. Specifically, they are called "wait, people live in Maine? What, like, 10 people? More? REALLY?!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    See, these ten are the main Mainers, they're mainly there to manage the mainland.
    http://gph.is/1Us4pat
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  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Default Re: Rules for what are groups of people called?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    See, these ten are the main Mainers, they're mainly there to manage the mainland.
    And if they rent a place in Maine, are they Maine Tenants?
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  22. - Top - End - #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    And if they rent a place in Maine, are they Maine Tenants?
    Only if the workers who take care of their rentals are Maine Tenants men.
    “A long surcote of pers upon he hade, / And by his syde he baar a rusty blade.” - Chaucer

  23. - Top - End - #53
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Rules for what are groups of people called?

    As BrotherOni remarked on the previous page, how different groups choose to label themselves is as much a matter of culture as it is language; the way that a group defines "Us" versus "Them" and whether or not that distinction is a close one, impersonal one, antagonist one, etc.

    The example he gave in regards to Japan's label for the Chinese - "China People". Not "The People" or "Other People", but a strict definition of "You are from there, I am from here, and that is different".

    And as I think about that, I realise how the same thing occurs in English and why what I call myself isn't just a fad or a quirky turn of phrase, but was decided by something that happened millennia ago.

    The apocryphal story that brought this thought into focus was President John F. Kennedy's address to the people of Berlin in 1963, when he publicly declared himself to be a brand of jam doughnut; "Ich bin ein Berliner" being an inadvertent pun for a brand of confectionary and a grammatically appropriate way of saying, "I am a citizen of Berlin" in support of the West German resistance against the Soviet East. Everyone in the crowd knew what he meant, they all cheered, and tabloid journalists had their fun - no harm done.

    An there's the thing; they recognised what he wanted to say because the way that German works means that the suffix of -er is appropriate to mean 'belongs to' whereas in English we don't have a single unifying equivalent, and it's because of the French. Kind of.

    As an example; the biggest city near to where I live is Nottingham - yes it's real, yes we have a castle, yes there is a real Sherwood Forest. Despite the medieval folklore, the name of the city goes back a thousand years before that to our Viking ancestors and the supposed-founder of the town, a guy named Snot who was a thane (a minor noble, for those non-Skyrim players) and needed a place to call his own. Snot-thane-hame - "Snot-the-Thane's-Home".
    Then in 1066, Britain was conquered by the French Baron from Normandy led by William the Conqueror who became King William I of England, and he ordered a census to find out exactly while kind of crummy, backwater island he had gotten himself into. It apparently turned out that native speakers of medieval French didn't have to deal with the sn- combination very often and struggled with it, so in a stroke of pure bureaucracy they decided that they just wouldn't bother and shortened it down - welcome to Not-tan-ham. Nottingham.

    I don't know how much of that is true (from what I know of local history though, it seems highly plausible) but nonetheless it got me to thinking: In Nottingham, we wouldn't have cheered for JFK and would instead of just looked at each other, confused.
    "Nottingham-er" just doesn't work. I know what he's implying, but words no good speak bad with. In fact, there isn't another equivalent, to my knowledge - no Nottinghamite, no Nottinger, and Nottinghamionian is just nonsense and part of that is because we generally don't think of ourselves as coming from "Snot's Home". I come from My Home.

    It's not unique to the city. Someone above mentioned that people from East London were Cockneys, which strictly speaking is only partially true - to be an actual Cockney you need to have been born in a particular parish, traditionally within earshot of the bells of a particular church. The accent gets about a bit, but genuine cockneys are, more or less, a village within a city that still defines itself as 'other' to those who live on the other side of an imaginary boundary, because that's where their ancestors lived in 500AD.

    And then in the 1600's you guys picked up all of our nonsensical linguistic baggage, added a generous dose of Puritanistic allegory and metaphor, and shipped it with you to the new world where it crashed headlong into a thousand native languages, a not-insignificant swathe of Dutch, and Spanish besides.

    The point that I am laboriously getting around to is, we have had 1500 years and 5 separate languages in which to argue about this sort of thing and we still get it wrong - don't ask me how you get "Geordie" from "person who lives in the city named Newcastle". The important thing is, you guys in the US have barely had 300 years to work on it and that's hardly enough time to reach consensus. You'll get there in the end, and I promise it will make as little sense as possible to anyone who doesn't live there.
    Last edited by Wraith; 2020-11-10 at 06:23 AM.
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  24. - Top - End - #54
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    Wraith; I don't care if the story is true or not; it is too good a story to not accept as true!
    “A long surcote of pers upon he hade, / And by his syde he baar a rusty blade.” - Chaucer

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    Having looked at census records, I believe that petty bureaucrats would just drop letters that they did not have orthography for. There is a reason that the us government invented soundex.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wardog View Post
    Rockphed said it well.
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  26. - Top - End - #56
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    Default Re: Rules for what are groups of people called?

    Designating where someone is from also varies based on the location and origin of the speaker. I mean, there's obvious language differences, but beyond that, in a small town in a hilly region with a large seasonal tourist population, the latter might be "Summer People," or "Flatlanders." There's a large swathe of New York State where describing anyone as "from the city," means New York City, regardless of the existence of other, perhaps nearby cities in New York. Contrariwise, from experience, telling people from outside the United States that I'm a New Yorker leads to the assumption that I'm from NYC.

  27. - Top - End - #57
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    Default Re: Rules for what are groups of people called?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockphed View Post
    Having looked at census records, I believe that petty bureaucrats would just drop letters that they did not have orthography for. There is a reason that the us government invented soundex.
    And you also get misreading of hand-writing. Thus, when I look up some of my ancestors in transcribed census records, I sometimes see "c" mis-transcribed as "e".

  28. - Top - End - #58
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    Default Re: Rules for what are groups of people called?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidSh View Post
    And you also get misreading of hand-writing. Thus, when I look up some of my ancestors in transcribed census records, I sometimes see "c" mis-transcribed as "e".
    I have done some transcribing. It is really hard to read some handwriting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wardog View Post
    Rockphed said it well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Starfall
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