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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: OOTS #1212 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    Well, one is in no position to try and do that, while the other keeps hitting him with a huge electrically charged hammer, though.
    Cause he keeps trying to cast spells instead of talking. Initially.

  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: OOTS #1212 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Lheticus View Post
    So um, I'm going to bring up the bugbear in the room (well the other bugbear, people have already talked about Oona sidelining herself on purpose) and say...isn't it a little incongruous that Roy had to learn a special technique in order to have even a % chance to interrupt a spellcasting, yet Minrah pulls it off just by smashing Redcloak with a hammer?
    I'm not an expert on 3.5's Concentration rules, but I know that Summon Monster has a casting time of a full round, meaning that Minrah can attack and force a Concentration check without needing to ready an action or make an AoO to attack while he's casting. Given her current size and weapon, she'd deal a fair amount of damage with that attack, making for a pretty tough Concentration check. Roy's Spellsplinter Maneuver would probably make for a tougher Concentration check, thoughó it's just that Redcloak got unlucky this time.

  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: OOTS #1212 - The Discussion Thread

    Have to say I like Oona and Greyview they bring an interesting prespective to things - think that are the stars of this strip anyway, but do hope that they get involved, might be nice to see them in action as we haven't seen that yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    How do you propose he does that?
    I was thinking he might grab her and word of recall away, but it looks like they might be trying to wait out the rounds until they can turn to gas again instead.

  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: OOTS #1212 - The Discussion Thread

    Thanks Giant!
    To find in order to lose; To fall in order to stand up
    To freeze in order to ignite; To find myself within, and not fear the edge
    To die in order to be reborn to the new world

  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Default Re: OOTS #1212 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dancrilis View Post
    I was thinking he might grab her and word of recall away, but it looks like they might be trying to wait out the rounds until they can turn to gas again instead.
    Can he do that? I mean, the Giant has stated he deliberately avoid giving teleportation to his protagonists.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  6. - Top - End - #66
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #1212 - The Discussion Thread

    I love how Redcloak is constantly switching beween "I" and "We". Meaning that not even himself believes that his talking is representative of the Goblinoid People.

  7. - Top - End - #67
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    Default Re: OOTS #1212 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The Pilgrim View Post
    I love how Redcloak is constantly switching beween "I" and "We". Meaning that not even himself believes that his talking is representative of the Goblinoid People.
    Yeah, itís a nice Freudian slip.
    "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  8. - Top - End - #68
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    GreataxeFighterGirl

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    Default Re: OOTS #1212 - The Discussion Thread

    Wow, what a strip!

    First: dang, no periodic elemental. No sodium upcoming, sorry.

    Second: Yes! Oona's back!

    Third: Okay, Maxrah's smackdown on RC was too satisfying to put into words, so I'll just a huge smilie here instead.

  9. - Top - End - #69
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    Default Re: OOTS #1212 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Can he do that? I mean, the Giant has stated he deliberately avoid giving teleportation to his protagonists.
    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wordOfRecall.htm
    It's on the standard cleric spell list. Geez.

    (The bigger problem is "You must designate the sanctuary when you prepare the spell, and it must be a very familiar place." At best, they would zap to the Mechane.)

  10. - Top - End - #70
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    Default Re: OOTS #1212 - The Discussion Thread

    Well excuse me for not being familiar with a random spell of a game Iíve never played.
    "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  11. - Top - End - #71
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    Default Re: OOTS #1212 - The Discussion Thread

    Gosh, I only wish they had gotten to see occasions like when RC sent off waves of goblins literally buttered up and garnished to be devoured to save him and X some spells slots.
    Thanks to Linklele for my new avatar!
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  12. - Top - End - #72
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #1212 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    This rather depends on how many people get here before the fight is over.

    Killing witnesses doesnít work when people witness you doing it.
    It works if you kill the witnesses of the killing of the witnesses, then kill the witnesses of the killing of the witnesses of the killing of the witnesses... and so on. It's standard procedure for seasoned murderhobbos D&D players.

  13. - Top - End - #73
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    Default Re: OOTS #1212 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by understatement View Post
    Third: Okay, Maxrah's smackdown on RC was too satisfying to put into words, so I'll just a huge smilie here instead.
    Oh yeah? Well, I got a huger smilie!
    (And yeah: Minrocks!)
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    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by greenstone View Post
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct
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    How Teleport Works

  14. - Top - End - #74
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    Default Re: OOTS #1212 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Can he do that? I mean, the Giant has stated he deliberately avoid giving teleportation to his protagonists.
    The spell certainly exists in universe and is on the standard cleric spell list - so likely yes he can, but only if he prepared it, and when he prepared it choose a place it would bring him to.

    Subject to intrepration he could return to the Mechane but if it has moved since he prepared the spell that might be disallowed and so he would need to go to somewhere more familiar (like his home) - which if it is 120 miles away he can likely get back to the Order in two hours using Wind Walk but if it is 1200miles away it would take 20 hours etc so whether that would be practical is a different matter (if The Giant is intending to have him use it I suspect it will be the Mechane - but then I was expecting him to be gone already).

  15. - Top - End - #75
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    Default Re: OOTS #1212 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Can he do that? I mean, the Giant has stated he deliberately avoid giving teleportation to his protagonists.
    Yes, but the reason for that is to prevent the protagonists from trivializing the challenges they face. From a writer's perspective, teleportation is second only to resurrection as a source of plot headaches.

    Word of recall is extremely limited; it requires a sanctuary that is a "very familiar place." Durkon can't use it to teleport to the gate. He can't use it to teleport to the Oracle and get questions answered. He could teleport back to dwarven lands, but then he would be stuck there with no way to return. Pretty much the only place he could go without abandoning the party would be the Mechane. If Rich needs to give him and Minrah an escape hatch here, word of recall should not cause any plot-related damage.

    Of course, if Rich doesn't want them to have that escape hatch, he could also decide that the Mechane isn't familiar enough, which would rule out word of recall entirely. The rules leave that decision up to the DM, or in this case the writer.

  16. - Top - End - #76
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    Default Re: OOTS #1212 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonus45 View Post
    Gosh, I only wish they had gotten to see occasions like when RC sent off waves of goblins literally buttered up and garnished to be devoured to save him and X some spells slots.
    Weren't those hobgoblins, and wasn't Reddy still working out his aggression from being bullied by hobgoblins in his youth (or something like that?) (He eventually saw the light during the great battle {What the Hell is Wrong With Me?} but that was quite a bit later).
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2020-08-24 at 09:02 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by greenstone View Post
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct
    Quote Originally Posted by HappyDaze
    Self-deception tends to have a low target number
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  17. - Top - End - #77
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    Default Re: OOTS #1212 - The Discussion Thread

    Oona is back, with more quality lines! I love her. I wonder if she'll come around to the Order's side in the end? I would like that.
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  18. - Top - End - #78
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    Default Re: OOTS #1212 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Potatopeelerkin View Post
    Oona is back, with more quality lines! I love her. I wonder if she'll come around to the Order's side in the end? I would like that.
    Hmm, betting the under on that. She and her village have benefitted from their association with Xykon and Redcloak, have they not? She seems a practical sort.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by greenstone View Post
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct
    Quote Originally Posted by HappyDaze
    Self-deception tends to have a low target number
    How Teleport Works

  19. - Top - End - #79
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    Default Re: OOTS #1212 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dancrilis View Post
    I was thinking he might grab her and word of recall away, but it looks like they might be trying to wait out the rounds until they can turn to gas again instead.
    As others have mentioned, WoR can be awkward to use for a cleric on the move - if he hasn't updated the safe location recently, he could be teleported back to, say, the Mechane or his mom's house or the like.

    I agree that they might be stalling for five turns so they can smoke out of this place.

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    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: OOTS #1212 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dausuul View Post
    Yes, but the reason for that is to prevent the protagonists from trivializing the challenges they face. From a writer's perspective, teleportation is second only to resurrection as a source of plot headaches.

    Word of recall is extremely limited; it requires a sanctuary that is a "very familiar place." Durkon can't use it to teleport to the gate. He can't use it to teleport to the Oracle and get questions answered. He could teleport back to dwarven lands, but then he would be stuck there with no way to return. Pretty much the only place he could go without abandoning the party would be the Mechane. If Rich needs to give him and Minrah an escape hatch here, word of recall should not cause any plot-related damage.

    Of course, if Rich doesn't want them to have that escape hatch, he could also decide that the Mechane isn't familiar enough, which would rule out word of recall entirely. The rules leave that decision up to the DM, or in this case the writer.
    Word of Recallís purpose seems to be a east-ditch escape. As such it definitely trivializes the challenges faced by the characters as it allows them to just nope out of a lost fight. Like, say, that one time Durkon was caught by a vampiric snake-man.

    Thereís a reason Morrowind disabled the equivalent spells inside the final bossís final chamber.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  21. - Top - End - #81
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    Default Re: OOTS #1212 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by HolyDraconus View Post
    Cause he keeps trying to cast spells instead of talking. Initially.
    Quite on the contrary, I'd say. He focuses too much on the conversation to fight well. Just look at the first panel of page no. 2.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1212 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Hmm, betting the under on that. She and her village have benefitted from their association with Xykon and Redcloak, have they not? She seems a practical sort.
    They've benefited from the supply of monster parts, but that's really only a temporary boon. Oona's already established they don't have strong feelings about TDO, and are probably just in it for personal economic reasons rather than caring about the affairs of gods the way Redcloak does.

    We don't know how informed they are about the actual stakes. Perhaps they'd feel differently if they knew how likely their plan could end in death for them all even if it was successful.
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  23. - Top - End - #83
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    Default Re: OOTS #1212 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Hmm, betting the under on that. She and her village have benefitted from their association with Xykon and Redcloak, have they not? She seems a practical sort.
    Being practical means that she isn't likely to be on board with Redcloak's Plan B, which she has just heard in full.

    Of course, that means Redcloak is likely to kill her for the same reason he killed Tsukiko: He can't risk her revealing the truth to Xykon.

  24. - Top - End - #84
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    Default Re: OOTS #1212 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dausuul View Post
    Being practical means that she isn't likely to be on board with Redcloak's Plan B, which she has just heard in full.

    Of course, that means Redcloak is likely to kill her for the same reason he killed Tsukiko: He can't risk her revealing the truth to Xykon.
    Nothing has been said that Xykon doesn't already know.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1212 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dausuul View Post
    Being practical means that she isn't likely to be on board with Redcloak's Plan B, which she has just heard in full.

    Of course, that means Redcloak is likely to kill her for the same reason he killed Tsukiko: He can't risk her revealing the truth to Xykon.
    Oh no, don't say that.

    I think it's unlikely she'd pose a threat to Redcloak on that front, though. I doubt she has any particular loyalty to Xykon, why would she reveal anything to him? Tsukiko was a very different situation, since she liked Xykon and hated Redcloak.

    Quote Originally Posted by dancrilis View Post
    Nothing has been said that Xykon doesn't already know.
    Xykon thinks the plan is to make him ruler of the world. Ending the world for the good of goblinkind isn't really on his agenda.
    Last edited by Potatopeelerkin; 2020-08-24 at 11:41 PM.
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  26. - Top - End - #86
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    Default Re: OOTS #1212 - The Discussion Thread

    ...and and... -Minrah
    Stutter or typo?
    Last edited by Nogster; 2020-08-24 at 09:14 AM.

  27. - Top - End - #87
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    Default Re: OOTS #1212 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nogster View Post
    Stutter or typo?
    Given that previous word stutters (including one in the same sentence and one in the previous panel) have included a hyphen or ellipsis to indicate the stuttering, I'm guessing typo.

  28. - Top - End - #88
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    Default Re: OOTS #1212 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dausuul View Post
    Being practical means that she isn't likely to be on board with Redcloak's Plan B, which she has just heard in full.
    Well, she's not exactly happy with the current lot of her tribe, and the whole shtick of her folks is taking huge risks (i.e. hunting monsters that reside in Kraagor's Tomb) for little reward.

  29. - Top - End - #89
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    Default Re: OOTS #1212 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Word of Recallís purpose seems to be a east-ditch escape. As such it definitely trivializes the challenges faced by the characters as it allows them to just nope out of a lost fight. Like, say, that one time Durkon was caught by a vampiric snake-man.
    Oh, come on. Being able to bail out of a fight is not trivializing on anywhere near the scale of being able to go wherever you like whenever you like.

    If you were fighting in the first place, there was a reason for it (or the writer wasn't doing their job). You had something to win, or something to lose. Noping out of the fight means you don't win and you do lose. Whatever the stakes were, you forfeited them to the villain.

    The only case where word of recall would have changed anything is the Malack fight, and there are any number of reasons Durkon might not have used it there--the simplest being that he just didn't prepare it that day. A 6th-level slot is a big honkin' spell slot to devote to an escape hatch that will leave you stranded far from the action, if you don't have a specific reason to believe you will need it.
    Last edited by Dausuul; 2020-08-24 at 09:21 AM.

  30. - Top - End - #90
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    Default Re: OOTS #1212 - The Discussion Thread

    So the way things stand now the only way for Redcloak to be convinced is for him to leave the combat and verify the information Durkon is providing himself somehow. Interesting that he has never, ever talked personally with the Dark One - now would be a good time, methinks.

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