OOTS #1212 - The Discussion Thread

[Rogar Demonblud]

Very fitting, since Hades is the NE plane.

[The_Weirdo]

Very fitting, since Hades is the NE plane.

<_<

>_>

*Nods*

[Rogar Demonblud]

*gets treat*

[Spanish_Paladin]

Get out of there now you can, my beloved dwarves!!

[Ruck]

Na...

You do make a good joke periodically.

[The_Weirdo]

You do make a good joke periodically.

And you kept saying people like me were a bad element...

[HolyDraconus]

You do make a good joke periodically.

And you kept saying people like me were a bad element...

Out, tha both of ye!

[bravelove]

me: can I please stop getting intense feelings about redcloak
comic: absolutely not have more of it
me: thank you but also I'm dying

[The_Weirdo]

Out, tha both of ye!

What, do you find the puns Boron?

[KorvinStarmast]

I think Redcloak is going to have a come-to-Dark-One moment. Ironically, it's going to be when

Spoiler

Show

he finds out the Dark One is dead. Dead, or discorporated.

Seriously, did I never realize before that the Dark One wears a red cloak? Can that be the same red cloak that RC wears? (In my copy of Start of Darkness it looks more magenta, but that could be due to the aura glow.)

RC could be a cleric of a cause, not realizing that the god he follows has been dead for a while. Nobody has been communicating with him for a while except possibly Jirix.

Brilliant. And if you are right: Wow!

[Sesharan]

So out of pure curiosity, I went ahead and put together a list of the resources that each team has spent in this "negotiation".

Redcloak:

Stone Shape - 3rd level spell slot
Implosion - 9th level spell slot
Harm - 6th level spell slot
Animate Object - 6th level spell slot
Summon Monster - could be any spell slot, but most likely in the V to VII range in order to be a reasonable match for Maxrah.
Unholy Blight - 4th level spell slot
Healing spell - I'm guessing 4th level spell slot (Cure Critical Wounds), but Redcloak was beat up enough that it might be a 6th level Heal.

Team Dwarven Cleric:

Wall of Stone - 5th level spell slot
Mass Death Ward - 7th or 8th level slot, probably?
Thor's Might - probably an activated effect of the hammer?

...So if Durkon's secondary goal with this encounter was to drain enough spell slots that Redcloak feels the need to slow down on dungeon delving for the rest of the day, he'd be doing a pretty good job.

[KorvinStarmast]

Redcloak:

{spells}
Team Dwarven Cleric:

{spells}

...So if Durkon's secondary goal with this encounter was to drain enough spell slots that Redcloak feels the need to slow down on dungeon delving for the rest of the day, he'd be doing a pretty good job.

But Durkon's goal is to coax a 9th level spell's worth of quiddity out of him. That Is His Goal. (As a lifelong Goal-Oriented person (as my psychologist states in his written summary) I completely get Goals).
In other words, Durkon wants to hear from Thor:
Goal! Goal! Goal! Goal! Goal!
What?
I played soccer since age 4.

[Arkain]

Yet again, it's all about "him" winning, not goblinkind, that's just seems to be a bonus. Sad, but entirely plausible that Redcloak may see this entire encounter as yet more vindication for his cause, especially because Minrah seems to be really hitting a nerve there.

[The_Weirdo]

I played soccer since age 4.

I bet you'd win against me. Easily.

[understatement]

So out of pure curiosity, I went ahead and put together a list of the resources that each team has spent in this "negotiation".

Redcloak:

Stone Shape - 3rd level spell slot
Implosion - 9th level spell slot
Harm - 6th level spell slot
Animate Object - 6th level spell slot
Summon Monster - could be any spell slot, but most likely in the V to VII range in order to be a reasonable match for Maxrah.
Unholy Blight - 4th level spell slot
Healing spell - I'm guessing 4th level spell slot (Cure Critical Wounds), but Redcloak was beat up enough that it might be a 6th level Heal.

Team Dwarven Cleric:

Wall of Stone - 5th level spell slot
Mass Death Ward - 7th or 8th level slot, probably?
Thor's Might - probably an activated effect of the hammer?

...So if Durkon's secondary goal with this encounter was to drain enough spell slots that Redcloak feels the need to slow down on dungeon delving for the rest of the day, he'd be doing a pretty good job.

Mass Death Ward is 7th (Durkon is ~13-14, and the Giant had not realized that MDW was an actual 8th spell). Thor's Might is most likely from Minrah, since she was about to give the hammer to Durkon. Also, Durkon has previously casted Wind Walk and a Sending, so he can't cast these as cures.

But yeah, they're doing an okay job of attrition. However, regarding spells fifth and above (which are where most cleric offensive spells are found):

Redcloak has around 19 spells, while Durkon has 9 and Minrah has 2, all discounting possible bonus spells from wisdom. The dwarves' edge here is Maxrah's size and that Redcloak is possibly very low on spells. Unfortunately, Minrah's TM spell will run out soon.

[danielxcutter]

I figure that Redcloak is a “caster-type” cleric, where Durkon is a hybrid and Minrah is almost full melee-type. Redcloak doesn’t bother with melee, Durkon both utilizes his spells and makes himself better at hitting things with his hammer, and Minrah mostly just uses non-buff spells when necessary like healing or spells that are particularly useful like Searing Light on a perceived vampire.

So yeah I wouldn’t be surprised if Redcloak has more spells(relative to his level) compared to Durkon or Minrah. Durkon even uses an Amulet of Natural Armor instead of a Periapt of Wisdom, so it’s possible that he lacks Wis-boosting items entirely.

[understatement]

I figure that Redcloak is a “caster-type” cleric, where Durkon is a hybrid and Minrah is almost full melee-type. Redcloak doesn’t bother with melee, Durkon both utilizes his spells and makes himself better at hitting things with his hammer, and Minrah mostly just uses non-buff spells when necessary like healing or spells that are particularly useful like Searing Light on a perceived vampire.

So yeah I wouldn’t be surprised if Redcloak has more spells(relative to his level) compared to Durkon or Minrah. Durkon even uses an Amulet of Natural Armor instead of a Periapt of Wisdom, so it’s possible that he lacks Wis-boosting items entirely.

What I'm confused about is why Redcloak doesn't carry a weapon or wear better armor at all? Don't clerics have profiency in certain types of weaponry and armor?

[Ellen]

If Redcloak died, he goes to the Goblin afterlife, right? And, if he goes to the Goblin afterlife, he meets the Dark One, doesn't he? And is it safe to assume, when meeting your god after you've died, that your god gets a reasonable rundown of your life? Especially things leading to its end?

What I mean is, if they kill Redcloak, will the Dark One get Thor's message?

I feel kind of horrible for wanting that, although it gives a new meaning to "Kill the messenger," and a bad pun justifies a lot.

[Dausuul]

What I'm confused about is why Redcloak doesn't carry a weapon or wear better armor at all? Don't clerics have profiency in certain types of weaponry and armor?

He does wear armor. His armor looks identical to Roy's except for the color scheme. Though it is curious that he doesn't use a shield.

He doesn't bother carrying a weapon because he'd never use it. Redcloak's personal tactics throughout the comic, all the way back to the Dungeon of Dorukan, have been "all spells, all the time." His spell selection is quite varied, mixing summons, buffs, heals, and save-or-die; but he never seems to pack the ones like Righteous Might or Divine Power that turn the cleric into a melee machine.

[danielxcutter]

What I'm confused about is why Redcloak doesn't carry a weapon or wear better armor at all? Don't clerics have profiency in certain types of weaponry and armor?

Heavy armor(which I believe he is wearing) and simple weapons unless you have the War Domain(which is irrelevant since Redcloak is going for “caster” rather than “melee”).

[PontificatusRex]

What I'm confused about is why Redcloak doesn't carry a weapon or wear better armor at all? Don't clerics have profiency in certain types of weaponry and armor?

Because Redcloak was first created to be the Usually Straight Man Henchman character, not an actual antagonist. By the time he evolved into being an actual threat on his own, he was already visually established as not carrying a weapon or wearing armor.

Quickly glancing through the archives, I don't think we even see him casting a spell until Strip 149, though he does Bolster Undead in the final battle of Book 1.

[understatement]

Thanks for the information. I just went through SOD and it looks like he mentions he has "black armor," as well as Smite for a melee option.

[ebarde]

I'm pretty sure at this level anyway, his melee would only be competitive and useful if he centered his build around it at least somewhat

[dancrilis]

Quickly glancing through the archives, I don't think we even see him casting a spell until Strip 149, though he does Bolster Undead in the final battle of Book 1.

95 Panel 9.

[The MunchKING]

Minrah is awesome.

Also, she has to gain at least a few levels from this battle. I mean, Redcloak's a near-epic caster.

IIRC if it's more than 8 levels above the CR she's expected to be able to handle, it drops precipitously, because the game assumes you were just there watching the more powerful people handle most of the fight.

[Riftwolf]

What, do you find the puns Boron?

He's too noble for them. He doesn't react.

[Potatopeelerkin]

IIRC if it's more than 8 levels above the CR she's expected to be able to handle, it drops precipitously, because the game assumes you were just there watching the more powerful people handle most of the fight.

I don't have a lot of D&D experience, so I'm not really clear on the rules. But isn't one of the main advantages of having a DM that the game doesn't have to assume anything? Wouldn't the DM just decide for themselves whether they earned the EXP?

[factotum]

I don't have a lot of D&D experience, so I'm not really clear on the rules. But isn't one of the main advantages of having a DM that the game doesn't have to assume anything? Wouldn't the DM just decide for themselves whether they earned the EXP?

Of course, the DM can make that decision if they choose, but there *are* stated guidelines in the books for how much XP to award for various things.

[HandofShadows]

Words are getting more critical hits than the weapons are on this page.

[saulsch]

First post! And of course it is about a typo:

There is a doubled word in Maxrah's word balloon in the third panel of the second page: "and and".

best,

saul