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Thread: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT
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2020-09-09, 07:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT
I'm... not sure that Ash uses his head for much of anything, considering how many forcefields he's headbutted over the years (no idea what's up with that, but he made a real habit of it for a while, especially in the movies).
But there's also the time he pretty much caber-tossed a huge log that a lot of grown men would have struggled to even move, so... yeah, Ash is freakishly strong.
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2020-09-09, 08:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT
There's a fanfic that depicts Ash as secretly being a mew with ADHD using transform to disguise as a human child.
I think the author might be on to something/s
More seriously, it's canon that Ash is an aura user, which means he has various vaguely defined superpowers that are somewhere between ki manipulation and soul manifestation.
...That he never uses and actively refused to study "becuase I don't want to be an aura master, I want to catch pokemon" even though aura would make it easier to communicate with pokemon.I also answer to Bookmark and Shadow Claw.
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2020-09-10, 08:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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2020-09-10, 11:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT
Heh, im reading an extremely long still ongoing fanfic about that. Team galactic destroyed the universe, arceus sends him back in time to the start of his journey after some solid training in aura, and he proceeds to be the head of a pokemon wrecking crew as this ash isnt a (total) moron, he can remind his friends and pokemon he was close to of their previous lives, and almost everyone is working on 5 years of experience to get their pokemon that much better now. Also due to aura ash and crew can talk to their pokemon. As an example of how good everyone is, misty gets invited to join the elite 4 by the time ash is on his silver league run. Jessie james and meowth are now allies (in secret, they are still team rocket members) And they are also surprisingly competent this time around which makes their boss very happy. It basically goes through the majority of the anime events but they tend to work out differently because in some cases the escalation is way out of control Such as pokemon 3 spell of the unknown. He has to deal with all three legendary beast copies instead of just entei. And in others because due to changing events, ash is actually pretty well known after he finishes indigo and orange leagues and DEFINITELY well known after silver. So a lot of the people he deals with react very differently when he shows up to handle a problem. Ashes of the Past is the story name if you want to read it. Its at just under 2 millions words and counting.
"Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."
"If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."
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2020-09-11, 03:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT
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2020-09-11, 05:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT
Yeah that part was great. "NOPE! Nope nope nope!" /crash Im honestly curious to see what the actual ending will be like. I mean, aside from the exhibition matches he hasnt faced the elite 4 since his first try so its hard to tell what his current skill level is at, and im enjoying how his biggest issue is
But yeah, kinda curious to see if the author intends to go on till they reach the current anime point then have him retire as a pokemon master or what.Spoilerbalancing his desire to win with not steamrolling the competition as he absolutely would if he brought out the big guns. Its kind of an interesting point. He wouldnt feel like he earned a victory if he went to the elite four with ho oh mewtwo etc etc etc and crushed them, but if he holds back his strongest pokemon then he might lose because he isnt fighting with his best. And so losing with one arm tied behind his back would feel cheap too. And then again we are seeing there is legendary, then there is LEGENDARY as the three beasts and keldeo arent exactly unstoppable juggernauts in combat, though still quite strong, but mewtwo or ho oh are just UNFAIR."Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."
"If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."
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2020-09-17, 01:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT
So if anyone cares, the seven and billy butcher from The Boys had a battle royale with homelander hovering over head as referee. The winner is....
Black Noir did not take part for some reason. Cant imagine why.Spoilerbilly butcher briefly, who was then squished by homelander because of course."Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."
"If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."
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2020-09-21, 03:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT
To add to that, the winner of the featured match is
Next time on death battle isSpoilerduh. Winter Soldier. The fight looked passable, the whispers set a great mood and the final strike was abruptly applied.SpoilerVenom....oh boy, isnt he like a god now? Vs Chrona from Soul Eater. I dunno. Chrona did manage to affect Death's son, who can be considered a demigod, but i dont think the kid can beat maka, who ISNT a demigod. The theme i guess is abuse. Or weapons that merge with people. Otherwise, since Chrona is insane it should of been paired with Carnage... but that may well be a stomp.
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2020-09-21, 04:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT
SpoilerI think it depends on which Venom they choose.
Ignoring the minor hosts, we've got Eddie, Mac Gargon/The Scorpion, Flash Thompson, Then Eddie again but stronger.
There's also the upgrade that Venom when it almost got assimilated into the Grendel.
And Legion/Venom II: The artificial symbiotes composed of 16 pieces of various symbiotes extracted from the bodies of Captain America, Hawkeye, The Thing, Wolverine, Normie Osborn, the Kree supersoldier Tel-Kar, and four civilians that had the combined powers and skills of all of those people and their respective symbiotes. As well as, seemingly, the powers of the original Venom(possibly indicating that Eddie's own symbiote codices were incorporated into it when he bonded with the others.)
For a brief period of time, "Venom" wasn't even "Venom," but a amalgamation of Venom, Legion, Dark Carnage*, Mania, possibly Scorn, and the thousands of codices of many many different symbiotes that Dark Carnage absorbed to ascend to Godhood. IT's just that Venom was the dominant persona.
Currently, Dark Carnage was forcibly separated from Venom after it took control of the amalgamation but it's unknown how the other members and assorted codices were divided among them. (Though Dar Carnage does not appear to be in it's God Form.)
*Also known as Devil Carnage and Carnage Iv, Dark Carnage is a symbiote created by combing the remnants of The Grendel with the traces of the Carnage symbiote in the corpse of Cletus Kassady. It has the full power of the Carnage symbiote and the unique traits of Grendel, as well as the memories and personality of the original carnage, but despite everyone thinking of it as "the Carnage symbiote" it's canonically a new symbiote and the original carnage, and original Grendal, are both dead. It's Carnage the way that Ben Reilly is Peter Parker, basically.
If they take Absolute Carnage but not Venom Island, then this is a stomp in Venom's favor unless they only do the Manga version of Crona, who eventually becomes a Kishin.I also answer to Bookmark and Shadow Claw.
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2020-09-21, 05:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT
Hmm... Well, looking at the wikis for both. The two big things Crona has going for themselves is a powerful soundwave attack, and the capacity to induce madness by being in anyone's general proximity so long as they don't have the requisite spiritual/mental defenses. Though, I haven't read the manga and apparently Crona gets stronger in the story-line that the anime didn't follow.
While potentially interesting here - given Venom's psychology and that of many of its hosts - I don't know how much "can spread madness like a Lovecraftian monster" could be reasonably translated into a Death Battle.
The high-frequency vibrations Crona and Ragnarok can generate is fairly straightforward though.Last edited by Kitten Champion; 2020-09-21 at 05:20 AM.
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2020-09-21, 05:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT
Here's the thing: If they count Absolute Carnage, sonics shouldn't a problem for Eddie anymore.
The Legion symbiote includes a piece of Carnage that was removed with Goblin Childe. At that time, the Carnage symbiote had not only ben enhanced with the power of the Darkhold, which removed the weakness to sound as heat(as I've noted in my criticism of Carnage versus Lucy, that happened well over a year before that match was announced) but had been treated with the Goblin formula which had actually made it immune to fire and sonics.
As well as a chunk of Tyrannosaurus, an offshoot of Grendel, pulled from Wolverine. Tyrannosaurus was able to ignore napalm(though was seemingly killed by a Blast Furnace turned up o be as hot as the surface of the sun, as was Grendal who shrugged off thermobaric missiles.) and it can be assumed that Tyrannosaurus and Grendal had a comparable resistance to sonics, as the fire weakness and the sound weakness are intrinsically linked.
Dark Carnage, noted to be a fusion of Grendal and cArnage, was able to ignore Hellfire produced by Andrea Benton, who is basically the Princess of Hell and designated heir of Mephisto, as well as fight and kill a Ghost Rider. And gain that Ghost Rider's power by eating a piece of Venom that was in her spine. Again, we can infer a comparable resistance to sound.
By the end of Absolute Carnage, both Legion and an even stronger Dark Carnage had been assimilated into Venom.
Basically, if they count Absolute Carnage it's gonna come down to "who can punch the hardest."I also answer to Bookmark and Shadow Claw.
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2020-09-21, 11:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT
So first off all the Darkhold's boosts still couldn't stop the heat reentry from burning carnage up in reentry, which was arguable less hot then some other things that had hit him before so the boosts there are inconsistent at best. The boosts he picked up as Dark Carnage certainly added up to more anyways so it's likely moot. Although how much of that power Dark Carnage even still has is also uncertain. At the very least Dark Carnage still got disabled by the electrical current of a trains third rail, and it's possible that since all the fire getting thrown at him during that arc was Hellfire that the divine nature of Knull's blessings made it less effective then fire might have been.
I'm not entirely certain of counting anything from Absolute Carnage as that was a ton of arguably temporary powers all stacked at once and probably not applied anymore considering that Knull got what he wanted and likely isn't giving Eddie. Plus he is separated from dark carnage almost immediately.Thanks to Linklele for my new avatar!
If i had superpowers. I would go to conventions dressed as myself, and see if i got complimented on my authenticity.
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2020-09-21, 11:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT
They're not temporary power boosts.
You assimilate a codex, you get the codex's powers and knowledge
If Bob the Symbiote Host ripped the codices out of Spider-Man's spine and absorb them, Bob's symbiote would get Spider-Man's abilities, memories and skills, and a fraction of the powers of those symbiotes. If Bob's symbiote ate Venom, it would gain all of Venom's power.
That's explicitly what Codices are for.
Beyond that, while Dark Carnage was separated we don't know about Legion, Mania, or the various codices: The fact that Dark Carnage looks like Carnage instead of a black skeleton-devil monster seems to imply that the majority of the stuff stayed with Venom.
Death Battles regularly takes the absolute extremes of a character and even sometimes includes temporary power-ups(the time Shazam was 100 times his normal size was treated as his normal strength) so if they're maintaining consistency they'll use Venom between Absolute Carnage and Venom Island.
On Carnage dying on re-entry. Carnage had literally just regenerated from molecules and recreated Cletus's body from Archived DNA. (Poision Carnae was not Cletus. The human host is killed, broken down, and digested as part of the bonding process.)
It's going to be weaker than it normally would be, and thus more susceptible to damage. The Darkhold enchantment doesn't it them resistant to fire and sound, per se, it just gives it enough resistance to negate the weakness. It becomes like any-other attack, there's a certain threshold where you have to overcome the symbiote's inante durability and ability to regenerate before you can inflict harm. And no, no-selling Hellfire was explicitly the Dark Hold enhancement. Presumably it's a case of Dark Carnage just being that tough with the enchantment on top of it.
Bascially, you're arguing that Superman's bullet resistance is inconsistent citing an example where he was injured by an anti-tank rifle while recovering from Kryptonite posioning.I also answer to Bookmark and Shadow Claw.
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2020-09-21, 12:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT
No, when Dark Carnage takes the powers of Alejendra's spirit of vengeance they call out that the powers he gained were explicitly temporary.
Considering neither of them looked like that it's fair to say something funky was going on. Either way we literally never even see him display any traits or powers of Dark Carnage even when he goes to fight the Maker after the island thing.
I agree adding temporary powers belonging to someone else that Venom never even displays any indication he has would be consistent for death battle. I doubt that's a good thing.
Magical defenses wouldn't care how tired the symbiote is, it shows that neither the Dark Hold stuff or the Normie Osbourne stuff were enough to no sell heat entirely other then the occasions where it was because comics hate consistency. And still not relevant because it's carnages power and not venoms.Thanks to Linklele for my new avatar!
If i had superpowers. I would go to conventions dressed as myself, and see if i got complimented on my authenticity.
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2020-09-21, 01:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT
Carnage wouldn't have had the Goblin formula stuff when it burned up in reinetry.
the Carnage symbiote was destroyed before it could get back to Cletus so the traces of it in hs body wouldn't have had those powers.
And again, the Darkhold Enchantment doesn't make him immune to fire and sonics.
It makes him resist it enough that it doesn't hurt him any more than any other attack. It negates the weakness. "not weak to fire" is not the same thing as "immune to fire."
After a fresh regeneration and resurrecting it's host, it's going to be much easier to hurt then it would be at full power.
So again, you're basically citing that Superman got killed by an Anti-Tank rifle while recovering from Kryptonite poisoning.
On the Ghost Rider thing: The initial flood of memories fades(see also, Venom temporarily turning into a copy of Flash Thompson's personality when taking a piece of Venom extracted from Thompson's body) but the power is permanent. Otherwise, Cletus taking the codices in the first place would have been pointless.
Carnage's Ghost Rider form faded after the time limit passed, but he still had the power and information in the codex. Or do you think he gained the ability to manipulate souls and summon demons from the cult that has nothing to do with demons?I also answer to Bookmark and Shadow Claw.
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2020-09-21, 01:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT
So the resistance to fire didn't matter even though it's help up against much hotter things before. Good to know. Doesn't matter anyways, venom is not carnage and doesn't have carnage's powers. The hellfire resistance when fighting the monsters of evil was certainly not possible without Knull's blessing, although word of god was vague on it and suggested it might be both it and the darkhold combined that let him do it which wouldn't matter for Eddie, who is decidedly not getting Knull's blessing
I think he got those powers from the literal dark god riding shotgun for him, that was made pretty clear when he fought the Hulk.
The point of taking the codices was to force a reconnection with the hive mind and let Knull take them over again, not to gain power. None of which has been seen or heard from again after that event was over on either the Grendel piece or Eddie venom. It clearly diminishes with time, and even if it does last forever the power isn't with Eddie, it might be with Carnage, but Eddie hasn't shown a hint of having any of that power.Thanks to Linklele for my new avatar!
If i had superpowers. I would go to conventions dressed as myself, and see if i got complimented on my authenticity.
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2020-09-21, 02:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT
I dont think they included absolute carnage in the CARNAGE death battle, so its probably not going to be a factor here.
"Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."
"If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."
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2020-09-21, 02:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT
Spoiler: This TimeI was actually a little surprised, I thought the stealth advantage would count for more considering a well placed bullet would be lethal to either side.
Spoiler: Next TimeWell I'm pretty sure any of Venom's intelligence feats can be thrown out the window. Crona has driven an entire branch of Meister's insane before, so unless Venom has some serious mental resistances, Crona will likely do the same here.
Also Crona's sonic attacks will at least let him bypass Venom's durability, but I think the big thing is if Crona can absorb Venom or not. If it was Carnage it would be a definite yes, as his ability to absorb people is entirely based off how crazy they are. I don't know how insane Venom is, or if it would count if he's driven insane during the fight.
Anyways, besides absorbing Venom, I don't think Crona has any way to bypass Venom's regeneration. Crona is certainly strong enough to hurt Venom, but has nothing that isn't in some way a stab, slice, or crush.
On the other hand, Crona's durability is high enough that Venom will have difficulty harming Crona, but has no regeneration, so each blow that does get through counts. Of course, each blow that does get through will just increase Crona's durability and strength as each drop of blood can be used in either defense or offense.
So yeah, I don't think Venom is strong enough to kill Crona quickly, so it's going to come down to how well Venom can resist the insanity causing effect, and then how well Venom can resist being absorbed. Crona did manage to absorb something that could effect the entire world, so that's not going to be easy.Spoiler: I'm a writer!Spoiler: Check out my fanfiction[URL="https://www.fanfiction.net/u/7493788/Forum-Explorer"here[/URL]
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2020-09-21, 02:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-09-21, 02:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT
Last edited by Rater202; 2020-09-21 at 02:57 PM.
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2020-09-21, 04:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT
Ah ok, I just recall there was a LOT of screaming about all the carnage feats that were utterly ignored or under reported during his fight, I could have sworn that was one of them. Im not a huge comic reader so I dont recall all the info. The extent of my knowledge is the first two times spiderman and venom had to team up to take him on and carnage had his own team of crazies.
"Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."
"If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."
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2020-09-21, 04:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT
Yea if nothing else doing this [i] right[\i] before a big venom centric arc agains Knull that will likely have a ton of awesome moments to pull from seems cruel.
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If i had superpowers. I would go to conventions dressed as myself, and see if i got complimented on my authenticity.
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2020-09-21, 04:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT
Honestly? Thats going to be a problem with any comic character still in print. Or anime for that matter. Please god dont take this as an opening to redirect to the argument again, but a good example was superman goku and how shortly after the first fight goku unleashed some rather huge powerups and even superman had a boost or two though still primarily was done on older feats. Point being, any ongoing character is going to get new feats as time goes on, leading to wanting to revisit old fights. I forget, did they do a second mewtwo fight using mega forms? Or was that in the only one they had?
"Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."
"If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."
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2020-09-21, 04:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT
For the record, you seem to be thinking of Maximum Carnage which was a good videogame but a crappy comic book event.
Spider-Man, Venom, Cloak and Dagger, Blackcat, Firestar, Deathlock, Luke Cage, Iron fist, and Morbius the Living Vampire team up to defeat Carnage, Shriek, Doppelganger, Carion, and Demogoblin who are going on a murder spree.
The heroes were later joined by Captain America.
Notable, Shriek became Cletus's long term girlfriend after thi event and, not counting the time he was inverted, is pretty much the only person other than his symbiote that he cares about. (Though, just becuase he loves her, that doesn't mean he won't kill her when she gets boring, in his own words.)
I mention Absolute Carnage in my "I want them to redo these fights" rants because it re-emphasizes things that Screw Attack should have known about when they made the last one(The Darkhold enhancement)... And becuase if they do redo Carnage versus Lucy, well, Absolute Carnage is out so they'd have to take it into account
The main things though, that I complain about with that fight, is that the Gene Bomb explosion that Cletus canonically survived and recovered from logically would have been much bigger than the explosion they said Lucy could make and that would kill him(From what I can tell, they took the size of the blast after he smothered the bomb with his body and ate most of the energy of the explosion and assumed that was it's actual size which... makes absolutely no sense) and that he permenantly lost his specific weakness to fire and sound in a storyline that had been out for over a year by the time they announced the matchup.
It comes across to me as being like... There are times where it's hard to tell if they robbed someone on purpose, but knowing their track record. This feels like one of those times.I also answer to Bookmark and Shadow Claw.
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2020-09-21, 05:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT
The logic behind the gene bomb is spottier than a leopard. I read that storyline, there's nothing wrong with Death Battle's calculations there, all the fault lies on the comic book author for portraying it that way. If you try and say that logically a bomb needing to effect the entire planet would need to be stronger than was portrayed, than I'm obligated to point out that logically a biological weapon wouldn't explode in the first place and that inside of a room with no windows and metal meter thick walls is a horrible place for it to go off in the first place.
Even if Carnage didn't have a weakness to fire at that point, there is still enough energy released in a nuke to still kill him. He'd actually need immunity to fire to make that debatable. And they haven't nuked him in the comics (yet.)Last edited by Forum Explorer; 2020-09-21 at 08:57 PM.
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Spoiler: Original FictionThe Lost Dragon: A story about a priest who finds a baby dragon in his church and decides to protect them.
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2020-09-23, 12:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT
*shrug*
They can power up Carnage and Venom as much as they want; sooner or later a writer who grew up reading the older version of the symbiotes where they were weak to sonics and fire will revert them back to that, possibly without even bothering to explain or acknowledge the change, because that's how they're 'supposed' to be. And that's just comics, unfortunately.
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2020-09-23, 02:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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2020-09-24, 05:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT
The problem with that is the fact that "Venom and Carnage are constantly getting stronger" is an integral part of how symbiotes work.
And also the current writer for Vnom, Donny Cates, is a fan who grew up with the older version of the characters and he not only didn't do that, he explained that the weakness to fire and sonics is basically a combination of psychosomatic and a quirk of their biology.I also answer to Bookmark and Shadow Claw.
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2020-09-24, 08:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT
The arc right after carnage became a small god he suddenly looks like old carnage with zero explaination, and when Eddie thought it would be time to deal with Carnage in a fight the first thing he does is go for his stash of flame throwers. This is life in comics, poorly explained life in comics.
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2020-09-24, 09:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT
There's also the fact that Carnage and Venom are, at their core, both still Spider-Man villains, and Spider-Man has to be able to take them down. So integral part of symbiote biology or not, eventually the powerup pendulum is going to swing the other way when someone wants to use them for a Spider-Man storyline. Because Carnage being a tiny god is as likely to stick as Franklin Richards growing up (poor kid has actually been passed by a number of less-known kid characters, like Cassie Lang, who started off four or five years younger than him, but who is now in her mid-teens, while poor Frank is, at best, a tween).