Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT

[Traab]

Figured I would start up a new one since this seemed to get the most agreement. Just to carry on the discussion I will repeat, as this wouldnt be the first live action fight they did (nightwing versus daredevil) im cautiously optimistic that it wont suck.

[Forum Explorer]

Figured I would start up a new one since this seemed to get the most agreement. Just to carry on the discussion I will repeat, as this wouldnt be the first live action fight they did (nightwing versus daredevil) im cautiously optimistic that it wont suck.

I'll ditto this. Nightwing versus Daredevil wasn't bad at all, so it seems a little preemptive to assume that it'll suck because it's live action.

[Rynjin]

We may have different metrics on what constitutes a good live action fight. Most people don't watch US professional wrestling for the thrilling and visceral fight choreography, and the last live action fight was at roughly that level.

I'll put out the CW Arrowverse shows (Arrow particularly) as the "bronze standard" for a live action comic book fight. That's the minimum level of quality for what I'd consider solid. An unfair metric for an internet show? Maybe. But if you're going to do something, I think you should do it well, and DB is big enough it can't be properly considered an entirely amateur production anymore.

[Rater202]

Honestly, at this point as long as they don'tmake any mistake involving characters I care about, I'll be fine.

[SKarious]

So, any other characters you would suggest to fight against Zuko?

[Traab]

So, any other characters you would suggest to fight against Zuko?

Maybe Pyro from xmen? I have no clue how far he has gone up the power scale, but his whole deal is manipulating fire, though he cant create it. I could see it turning into a game of literal hot potato as they juggle control of the initial fireballs back and forth between them in a contest of both fine control and mass control of flames. Pyro has an edge in that he doesnt need to make specific movements to control his flames, iirc its all mental effort, but the fact that zuko spent large portions of his life learning not just how to bend fire, but working with other fire benders, has given him a lot of experience in taking control of flames from other people.

[Dragonus45]

Maybe Pyro from xmen? I have no clue how far he has gone up the power scale, but his whole deal is manipulating fire, though he cant create it. I could see it turning into a game of literal hot potato as they juggle control of the initial fireballs back and forth between them in a contest of both fine control and mass control of flames. Pyro has an edge in that he doesnt need to make specific movements to control his flames, iirc its all mental effort, but the fact that zuko spent large portions of his life learning not just how to bend fire, but working with other fire benders, has given him a lot of experience in taking control of flames from other people.

Also Zuko is probably just better in a fight then Pyro and if need be can just decide to use his big swords and martial art skills instead of throwing fire at him.

[Devonix]

Also Zuko is probably just better in a fight then Pyro and if need be can just decide to use his big swords and martial art skills instead of throwing fire at him.

One thing a lot of people forget is that fire bending isn't just about making fire. It also teaches you how to remove and reduce fire.

He could put put Pyro's flames and fight him hand to hand

[Forum Explorer]

One thing a lot of people forget is that fire bending isn't just about making fire. It also teaches you how to remove and reduce fire.

He could put put Pyro's flames and fight him hand to hand

Pyro usually comes with a way to create flames through, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't just create flames but amplify them.

[Traab]

Pyro usually comes with a way to create flames through, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't just create flames but amplify them.

He does. He is basically a flamethrower in that he uses something to manually provide the spark then magnifies it, forming whatever shapes he wants and such. Remember the xmen movie? The young pyro used a lighter to trigger his abilities. Thats basically how it works as far as I understand.

[Forum Explorer]

He does. He is basically a flamethrower in that he uses something to manually provide the spark then magnifies it, forming whatever shapes he wants and such. Remember the xmen movie? The young pyro used a lighter to trigger his abilities. Thats basically how it works as far as I understand.

Also so long as Pyro is manipulating the flames, he's immune to them. So that's a pretty hefty advantage he's got over Zuko.

[McNum]

So, any other characters you would suggest to fight against Zuko?

Axel from Kingdom Hearts.

- He's fire based.
- He's a villain who's a late joiner to Team Sora.
- Joining Team Sora, he learned new powers and how to master his own
- He dualwields melee weapons

That should be enough boxes ticked to get him in vs. Zuko.

As for who would win... That one is tough. Axel's fire will likely be mostly countered, but that's not his only trick. If it comes down to melee weapons, Axel (or Lea now) has a Keyblade, so I'd give a slight advantage there. Not the best Keyblade, but one none the less. And I don't see Zuko having a way to keep Axel out of melee. He's quick in a fight.

I think it's one of those matchups where if you ran it 1000 times, you'd get 400 wins for the loser.

[Dragonus45]

Also so long as Pyro is manipulating the flames, he's immune to them. So that's a pretty hefty advantage he's got over Zuko.

But is he immune to expert martial arts and swords to the chest?

[Darth Credence]

The best match-up for Zuko would have to be Nogerelli. (Yes, I'm old and watched weird things growing up.)

[Traab]

But is he immune to expert martial arts and swords to the chest?

No, but thats the rub. Can zuko manage to keep pyros fire away from him long enough to stab? I think it will be very difficult as pyro probably has better control over fire than zuko considering he is known for making things like animal constructs out of fire as his standard party tricks, and zuko is very much so not immune to fire. Its not impossible for zuko to create brief windows of opportunity before pyro can re-establish control, but I think it would be an uphill battle for him to get the timing right.

[Anteros]

Axel from Kingdom Hearts.

- He's fire based.
- He's a villain who's a late joiner to Team Sora.
- Joining Team Sora, he learned new powers and how to master his own
- He dualwields melee weapons

That should be enough boxes ticked to get him in vs. Zuko.

As for who would win... That one is tough. Axel's fire will likely be mostly countered, but that's not his only trick. If it comes down to melee weapons, Axel (or Lea now) has a Keyblade, so I'd give a slight advantage there. Not the best Keyblade, but one none the less. And I don't see Zuko having a way to keep Axel out of melee. He's quick in a fight.

I think it's one of those matchups where if you ran it 1000 times, you'd get 400 wins for the loser.

Axel goes up against Sora, who does things like blocking beams of light or cutting skyscrapers in half. With DB's love of transitive property it's not even a close fight.

[Kitten Champion]

No, but thats the rub. Can zuko manage to keep pyros fire away from him long enough to stab? I think it will be very difficult as pyro probably has better control over fire than zuko considering he is known for making things like animal constructs out of fire as his standard party tricks, and zuko is very much so not immune to fire. Its not impossible for zuko to create brief windows of opportunity before pyro can re-establish control, but I think it would be an uphill battle for him to get the timing right.

Honestly, the "Zuko can beat him with swords" depends on Zuko having foreknowledge of Pyro's mutant power and actively not trying to engage him with his fire-bending abilities, which seems pretty unreasonable.

More importantly, it's bringing back the game of arbitrarily deciding which superpower takes precedence over the other like with the Gaara v. Toph fight.

For another Zuko opponent, how about Blaziken? Ya'know, the Gen 3 Pokemon. Had a number of appearances in the anime and movies to go off of rather than just extrapolating from the games, doesn't have ludicrous Pokedex entries like Machamp, and fulfills the "mixes martial arts and fire powers" aspect of the match-up.

[Forum Explorer]

Honestly, the "Zuko can beat him with swords" depends on Zuko having foreknowledge of Pyro's mutant power and actively not trying to engage him with his fire-bending abilities, which seems pretty unreasonable.

More importantly, it's bringing back the game of arbitrarily deciding which superpower takes precedence over the other like with the Gaara v. Toph fight.

For another Zuko opponent, how about Blaziken? Ya'know, the Gen 3 Pokemon. Had a number of appearances in the anime and movies to go off of rather than just extrapolating from the games, doesn't have ludicrous Pokedex entries like Machamp, and fulfills the "mixes martial arts and fire powers" aspect of the match-up.

Blaziken wins hands down. Its physical feats outshine Zuko by far, it's close to immune to fire while Zuko is not, and the abuse Pokemon can take is far beyond any of the characters in Avatar are capable of handling.

[TeChameleon]

... yeah, Todoroki vs. Zuko went pretty much how I expected.

Spoiler

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Not even Zuko's honour could help him deal with 'suddenly glacier'.

I don't think Pyro would be a great matchup against Zuko; Zuko's just too fast and agile, and Pyro is... kinda on the lazy, cowardly end of things in his usual portrayals. If St. John Allerdyce (seriously, that's his name) got a lucky shot in on the prince, he might take it, but if the fight goes on even a short while, Zuko would realize fire immunity, get in close, and it's stabby time.

[McNum]

Axel goes up against Sora, who does things like blocking beams of light or cutting skyscrapers in half. With DB's love of transitive property it's not even a close fight.

Right, though Axel is on the lower end of the Kingdom Hearts power scale all things considered. But still, Zuko would at best be able to hang with the Final Fantasy characters in that.

I wonder if we limited it to just his Lea incarnation if that would be fair. A lot of Axel's crazy stuff comes from being an elite Nobody as part of Organization XIII. Lea's been shown to be fairly sneaky, but also about Kairi level since he just swapped his rings for a Keyblade, and doesn't really know how to use it.

But then again, Kairi-level is better than you'd think. She just has a bad habit of skipping straight to the endboss while still in training. With the expected results.

We really need Kairi to get a game to be awesome in.

[Dragonus45]

Honestly, the "Zuko can beat him with swords" depends on Zuko having foreknowledge of Pyro's mutant power and actively not trying to engage him with his fire-bending abilities, which seems pretty unreasonable.

More importantly, it's bringing back the game of arbitrarily deciding which superpower takes precedence over the other like with the Gaara v. Toph fight.

No, it depends on the fire attacks for both of them largely being a wash and Zuko being both better at hand to hand combat and more psychically fit combatant. With very pointy objects.

[Kitten Champion]

No, it depends on the fire attacks for both of them largely being a wash and Zuko being both better at hand to hand combat and more psychically fit combatant. With very pointy objects.

Why is it a wash? That's an arbitrary decision to decide complete equivalency even if the powers scale differently, and is no different than deciding one is stronger than the other just because.

[Dragonus45]

Why is it a wash? That's an arbitrary decision to decide complete equivalency even if the powers scale differently, and is no different than deciding one is stronger than the other just because.

Pyro has better fine control since can make constructs but beyond that I see nothing in either characters history that says the would be able to overpower one another with firepower alone. If you want to say one or the other wins that fight then by all means, prove it.

[Forum Explorer]

Pyro has better fine control since can make constructs but beyond that I see nothing in either characters history that says the would be able to overpower one another with firepower alone. If you want to say one or the other wins that fight then by all means, prove it.

Pyro's fire constructs can also pick up objects without burning them, so he has much much better fire control.

Also I'm pretty sure his fires can burn hot enough to reduce a human to ash in seconds. Obviously, Zuko has never done something along those lines. I'm pretty sure Pyro leveled a small town once, but I think he was being amped up by something at the time.

[Dragonus45]

Pyro's fire constructs can also pick up objects without burning them, so he has much much better fire control.

I'm gonna need a citation for this one, I'm not the most avid reader of Xmen stuff anymore but I don't remember him ever doing that. Although it's just asinine to work in comic book writer logic so I wouldn't be surprised. Either way, that just reinforces his psychic control of fire is able to do finer work which is what I already said. He also suffers from serious concentration issues dealing with his fire, with a whole bunch of limits involving needing to see it and having to put a lot of effort into making anything real big or intense which means not focusing on other nearby fire, which is why I don't think he has much more raw strength than Zuko and that their fire talent's would largely cancel each other out.

Also I'm pretty sure his fires can burn hot enough to reduce a human to ash in seconds. Obviously, Zuko has never done something along those lines.

Only because of G ratings, look at some of the stuff various firebenders have melted or the size of some of those fire blasts and tell me that Zuko couldn't end a life real fast in a series that allowed such things.

[HolyDraconus]

Flash blurb up.. From what they shown before, when they show in the blurb something completely busted, like in this instance, regeneration from mist, usually means its going to be over the top. They also showed the still for the Sonic blurb and they have Sonic as Super Sonic. Which I figured. I know Sonic has decimated realities, but outside of rewinding Time, has Flash done similar?

They pulled two particular facts from the comics that might change how this goes. The fact that Sonic can move even while Time Stop(megaman crossover) and most of the busted things he done was in base: not Super, or Hyper.

[Traab]

So sonic blurb is up. Yep, this is the one speedster that can match or possibly exceed the flash and HIS stupid level of power. His speed is literally ????? Doesnt mean death battle wont try to break down some of his feats anyways.

[McNum]

Yup. This is going to be a fun one.

Also yes. Those were Mega Man and the Robot Masters you saw. Because sometimes Worlds Collide. And it's in continuity, too for Sonic.

I'm leaning Sonic now. If only because his infinite and immeasurable speed there was in his base form. Super Sonic's breakdown is going to be hilarious.

[HolyDraconus]

Fairly certain they gonna give Super Sonic the same weaknesses that he had in the games... well, WEAKNESS, which is being crushed. The rings was a temporary thing and was proven to simply be a game balancing mechanic since in Sonic Advance, the true ending had Sonic maintain Super form for a week.

[Devonix]

Fairly certain they gonna give Super Sonic the same weaknesses that he had in the games... well, WEAKNESS, which is being crushed. The rings was a temporary thing and was proven to simply be a game balancing mechanic since in Sonic Advance, the true ending had Sonic maintain Super form for a week.

They're explicitly using Archie Sonic. Which means they're not using anything videogame related. And comic Sonic has survived universal erasion in his Super form.