RPG tie in media and sequels eliminating diversity

[Talakeal]

Has anyone else noticed that CRPG makers treat diverse player characters as somehow "playing it wrong" when it comes to tie in media or sequels?

Lots of RPGs allow you to create a wide variety of characters and make choices in the game, but treat those choices as "non canon". I can't think of a single tie in novel or sequel where they didn't default the protagonist into a straight, white, male of "good" alignment. Also usually a human fighter in settings which have classes or non-human PCs.

Does anybody know why this is? I assume to is to make it easier for what they consider their largest demographic to identify with the character?

Can anyone provide any examples of franchises where this is not the case?

[The Glyphstone]

I generally don't read tie-in fiction of any kind, so can you give examples of when this is the case for contrast?

Baldur's Gate jumps to mind as a 'yes', but I'd call Drizzt far more iconic of the D&D brand than Adrian, and he is neither white, human, or a fighter. Good, yes, but that's because he is a protagonist.

[Giggling Ghast]

That's not really the case with extended media in the Dragon Age universe. Generally speaking, the casts of the various comics and novels have been pretty diverse. There are some straight white dudes, of course, but they don't form the majority.

[Talakeal]

That's not really the case with extended media in the Dragon Age universe. Generally speaking, the casts of the various comics and novels have been pretty diverse. There are some straight white dudes, of course, but they don't form the majority.

I am mostly talking about the PC.

The first Dragon Age kind of turned me off hardcore, so I never played any of the sequels, but do the comic and novels ever reference the game's PCs or give them cannon identities?

I generally don't read tie-in fiction of any kind, so can you give examples of when this is the case for contrast?

Baldur's Gate jumps to mind as a 'yes', but I'd call Drizzt far more iconic of the D&D brand than Adrian, and he is neither white, human, or a fighter. Good, yes, but that's because he is a protagonist.

Baldur's gate for sure.

Well, for example, in Fallout 2 we are told that the PC of the first game is your grandfather despite being given the option to play female or gay characters in the first game.

In KoToR I know that despite playing a female who was in a relationship with Carth and chose the dark side ending. Then we are told in the MMO that Revan was a male who chose the light side ending and fathered children with Bastilla.

[HolyDraconus]

I am mostly talking about the PC.

The first Dragon Age kind of turned me off hardcore, so I never played any of the sequels, but do the comic and novels ever reference the game's PCs or give them cannon identities?

I never read the comics or novels of DA but the games have the PC of DA as generic fodder who hugely doesn't matter, and Hawk's only real customizable facets are gender and who it slept with, according to DA 3.

[Dire_Flumph]

In KoToR I know that despite playing a female who was in a relationship with Carth and chose the dark side ending. Then we are told in the MMO that Revan was a male who chose the light side ending and fathered children with Bastilla.

Given all the choices in Star Wars, it's a disappointing trend.

X-Wing - Keyan Farlander, officially White Human Male

TIE Fighter - Maarek Stele, officially White Human Male

X-Wing: Alliance - Despite not getting a first name, "Ace" Azzameen's in-flight character model looks pretty White Human Male

KotOR - The Republic Soldier is a White Human Male, romances Bastila

KotOR2 - Only aversion I can think of, the Exile is in canon Meetra Surik a Female Human (still white though...)

Jedi Academy - Jaden Korr, officially White Human Male


- Edited KotOR entries as I suppose they could still be considered spoilers.

[Fyraltari]

In KoToR I know that despite playing a female who was in a relationship with Carth and chose the dark side ending. Then we are told in the MMO that Revan was a male who chose the light side ending and fathered children with Bastilla.

KOTOR II makes the player choose Revan's gender and alignment at thz beginning of the game but defaults to Light-Side Female. It was the MMO's tie-in book, Revan that establishes him as male (and the Exile, the protagonist of the second game, as female and named "Meetra Surik").

The Elder Scrolls series absolutely refuses to canonize any of the choices the player make with regards to their protagonists, to the point that when the Nerevarine show up in the semi-canon... thing C0DA, they appear as an amalgamation of every possible race/gender they could have been. Also Skyrim hints that the protagonist of Oblivion completed the Thieves' Guild and Dark Brotherhood series of quests and (confirmed by a tie-in book) that whoever did Clavicus Vile's quest (might not be the protagonist) chose the bad ending.

[Hopeless]

Are you familiar with the Scourge of Worlds dvd tie in to the 3.0 Greyhawk setting?

[JadedDM]

I seem to recall that the Default Warden/Hero of Fereldan from Dragon Age Origins is a female Dalish elf warrior. That said, the character was depicted as a white human male warrior in all of the trailers and marketing materials before the game came out.

[Kitten Champion]

I seem to recall that the Default Warden/Hero of Fereldan from Dragon Age Origins is a female Dalish elf warrior. That said, the character was depicted as a white human male warrior in all of the trailers and marketing materials before the game came out.

That's true of Mass Effect as well. There is alternative box art with the female Shepard on it, apparently, but I haven't seen it in person.

Still, trailers and most of the game art is that white marine-looking dude usually standing in front of space that we're familiar with.

I actually read a ME novel a long while ago for whatever reason, Shepard wasn't in it and I don't think they specified anything about him/her. Which was probably for the best.

[druid91]

I mean, the novelization of Shadowrun Hong-Kong turned the main character into an archetypal murderhobo with no real description of who he was beyond his callousness towards death and magpie-like attraction to loot.

[The Glyphstone]

I mean, the novelization of Shadowrun Hong-Kong turned the main character into an archetypal murderhobo with no real description of who he was beyond his callousness towards death and magpie-like attraction to loot.

So, your typical Pink Mohawk shadowrunner then?

[J-H]

The examples I was going to cite have already been mentioned. I have bought fewer than ten games in the last decade.... and Factorio, Civ4, and CK2 don't count for this discussion!

Business decisions are made with an eye towards safety.
Made a Native American character, but you're not Native American? Appropriation, insensitivity, yada yada.
Made a Bantu character, but didn't consult tribe members from the authentic area, and got some of the religion wrong? Prepare to be excoriated.
You wrote a female character, but she's too masculine? Insensitive and inauthentic; she's too feminine? She's weak and dependent or something.
Made a bland, boring white guy? Congratulations, 80% of the industry is doing it, so your risk of being the designated target for the daily hate mob goes down substantially.

[Rynjin]

That's true of Mass Effect as well. There is alternative box art with the female Shepard on it, apparently, but I haven't seen it in person.

It's just on the reverse side of the cover; the little paper slip inside the plastic sheet is double sided.

[J-H]

(semi-OT)
I miss the days when games actually had physical packaging and manuals and CDs and stuff. It's all digital purchases nowdays, and most publishers are too lazy to provide a nice 30-60 page written manual to read and refer to before playing.

[False God]

Given all the choices in Star Wars, it's a disappointing trend.

X-Wing - Keyan Farlander, officially White Human Male

TIE Fighter - Maarek Stele, officially White Human Male

X-Wing: Alliance - Despite not getting a first name, "Ace" Azzameen's in-flight character model looks pretty White Human Male

KotOR - The Republic Soldier is a White Human Male, romances Bastila

KotOR2 - Only aversion I can think of, the Exile is in canon Meetra Surik a Female Human (still white though...)

Jedi Academy - Jaden Korr, officially White Human Male


- Edited KotOR entries as I suppose they could still be considered spoilers.

Star Wars is a HUGE offender on this subject. If we include some of the EU game material with no character choice (Force Unleashed, Fallen Order) we end up with at least 2 more straight white male protags, probably more but I don't play many of the "you can't customize your character at least a little" titles.

----
I think the OP got it spot on, our corporate overlords want to appeal to the most generic user-base, which they still see as largely white and male. I'm not going to get into if it isn't or isn't, only that I suspect that's their perception.

[Kitten Champion]

It's just on the reverse side of the cover; the little paper slip inside the plastic sheet is double sided.

Oh, that would explain why I've never seen it despite seeing lots of game boxes on shelves over the years and owning the game myself. I knew it existed because there's clear images of it online by online retailers, but I was thinking it was maybe for later releases like the ME collection box set.

It doesn't seem like they did that for Dragon Age II. Which, considering there is a default look for Hawk of either gender and you're purely limited to a human character like with ME, it doesn't seem like a herculean task to include both of them in the art. Especially as the DAII cover is so boring especially compared to the stark simplicity of Origins or the neat silhouette of Inquisition, it's just the pre-gen warrior dude ambling towards you.

Then there's this PC box I found in a brief google search --

Spoiler

Show

I thought "oh, they have both Hawks but they're in different classes" but then I took a second glance and realized that's Isabela... for some reason.

[factotum]

This happens in any genre. I heard, for instance, that the "default" character in Assassin's Creed: Odyssey was supposed to be Kassandra, but the powers that be at Ubisoft insisted they make it Alexios instead, which is why he appears in the game's loading screen.

[GentlemanVoodoo]

On this one has to take some historical aspects into account. Pretty much it is correct that the white male protagonist is the safer route most most companies take nowadays. In the older times white males were the majority of target consumers of the product regardless of what form it took. That is not say individuals of minority groupings didn't read, play, or watch such things but white males were the majority. But as time moved forward more people of every background are getting into it as "nerd" culture became more of the norm.

[Devonix]

On this one has to take some historical aspects into account. Pretty much it is correct that the white male protagonist is the safer route most most companies take nowadays. In the older times white males were the majority of target consumers of the product regardless of what form it took. That is not say individuals of minority groupings didn't read, play, or watch such things but white males were the majority. But as time moved forward more people of every background are getting into it as "nerd" culture became more of the norm.

Chicken or the egg. Is it all they pick because it's the safer. expected route. Or is it the safer, expected route, because it's all they pick.

People don't see an idea as the norm, unless they see people using it everywhere.

[Rodin]

It's worth noting that a lot of these games are relatively old - 10-20 years for most of the ones listed. "White male protagonist syndrome" started getting major attention about 5 years ago. Companies are becoming more aware of this, but change will be slow as shown by the Assassin's Creed example.

Are more recent RPGs engaging in this? I've largely fallen out of the Western PC RPG genre, so I'm not familiar with games like Pillars of Eternity I and II. Is there continuity between those games, and if so is there a default protagonist?

Wasteland 3 doesn't address the issue...I think. There were Rangers in Wasteland 2 but you don't get more specific info than that. Your custom character(s) do not get mentioned by name or gender.

[Talakeal]

Another classic example would be the original Diablo. Three PC options, white male fighter, black male wizard, white female rogue. Guess which one the sequels decided was canon?

On this one has to take some historical aspects into account. Pretty much it is correct that the white male protagonist is the safer route most most companies take nowadays. In the older times white males were the majority of target consumers of the product regardless of what form it took. That is not say individuals of minority groupings didn't read, play, or watch such things but white males were the majority. But as time moved forward more people of every background are getting into it as "nerd" culture became more of the norm.

Yeah. But the example games I am talking about didn’t necessarily have a white male PC, but they then later went back and clarified that anything else was “nom-canon”.

[Peelee]

Star Wars is a HUGE offender on this subject. If we include some of the EU game material with no character choice (Force Unleashed, Fallen Order) we end up with at least 2 more straight white male protags, probably more but I don't play many of the "you can't customize your character at least a little" titles.

Shadows of the Empire. Jedi Academy, I think (haven't played).

[Talakeal]

Shadows of the Empire. Jedi Academy, I think (haven't played).

Jedi Academy was mentioned upthread. Dark Forces / Jedi Knight do indeed have a white human male protagonist without customization options iirc.

[Kitten Champion]

Another classic example would be the original Diablo. Three PC options, white male fighter, black male wizard, white female rogue. Guess which one the sequels decided was canon?

They all are. The Rogue became Blood Raven, the Sorcerer becomes The Summoner, and the Warrior obviously became Diablo.

In both Diablo and Diablo II the canon explanation is a party defeated Diablo, but in D1 they all ended up as monsters while in D2 it's largely implied they all went on with their lives with some being referenced indirectly in D3.

[dancrilis]

If you have tie in media which references an individual person then telling us some characteristics of that person makes sense - and I suspect that Lesbian Black Halfling Women are less common for players then Straight White Human Men, so it makes sense that when choosing the canon character you don't select a Lesbian Black Halfling Woman (or other potentially rare build).

Further to this nowadays having a Lesbian Black Halfling Woman is also likely to come with additional grief from some people saying 'you should have done W, X, Y and Z better' and from other people saying 'you are pandering' - hassle you can largely avoid by sticking to a semi-default set of expected characteristics.

Now you might decide that your tie-in work will tell the story of a Lesbian Black Halfling Woman as the PC in the wider work and that is your decision (along with whoever is paying you etc) but if you do so you know it (and you) will be graded on a number of elements which might have very little to do with your actual tie-in work.

[Talakeal]

They all are. The Rogue became Blood Raven, the Sorcerer becomes The Summoner, and the Warrior obviously became Diablo.

In both Diablo and Diablo II the canon explanation is a party defeated Diablo, but in D1 they all ended up as monsters while in D2 it's largely implied they all went on with their lives with some being referenced indirectly in D3.

That is implied, but afaik never actually confirmed. Still, my point stands, it was the straight white male who went on to be the "main character" who defeated Diablo and went on to be the main villain of the sequel while the rest were, at best, mini bosses who were defeated early in the game with no real fanfare.

[Drascin]

If you have tie in media which references an individual person then telling us some characteristics of that person makes sense - and I suspect that Lesbian Black Halfling Women are less common for players then Straight White Human Men, so it makes sense that when choosing the canon character you don't select a Lesbian Black Halfling Woman (or other potentially rare build).

Thing is, statistics seem to point out that by now there are more women playing rpg videogames than men. So if you were really concerned with representing demographics, main character would probably be a straight woman, not a straight man.

The difference is that most women are generally willing to shrug and play a dude, because, well, with the way the industry has historically been if you weren't willing to deal with being a dude you couldn't have gotten into rpgs in the first place - but a lot of dudes will simply not play your game if you have a girl in the cover.

[KillianHawkeye]

a lot of dudes will simply not play your game if you have a girl in the cover.

Why, though? I've never understood this.

As a straight white male, I actually prefer playing a female character for variety's sake at the very least.

[Peelee]

Why, though? I've never understood this.

Imean, I know why, even if I don't understand why.