Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT

[Prime32]

Doesn't Marvel have some usual shtick about oo much insanity making you immune to mind control, absorption and other hypnotizing/altering powers? Such as Deadpool being "too crazy to go insane" or someone with absolutely no remorse being totally immune to Ghost Rider's stare?

Depends on whether Ghost Rider is the protagonist or not. When he is, the whole point of the Penance Stare is to punish people who don't feel remorse. But when he's in teamups, basically anyone who isn't crippled with guilt can shake it off.
Though IIRC symbiotes are immune to the Penance Stare... because they don't have eyes (Venom's are purely aesthetic and he doesn't use them to see).

[Forum Explorer]

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Crona won. I'm not sure if they downplayed Venom's feats in the whole god arc he went through, or if I overestimated Venom's regeneration. They do make a point that Crona's sound attacks are powerful enough to kill super-powered people without a weakness to sound, so Venom not being quite as weak to sound as he used to be wouldn't really help that much.

I am disappointed that they didn't ask if Crona would be able to absorb Venom, or drive them insane. They just went by pure physical feats, and deemed Crona's to be higher. Which yeah, they are for the feats chosen. I just don't know if they ignored feats from Ultimate Carnage and the like.

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Red vs Blue. Okay, so a Rooster Teeth special. Don't really care though.

[Traab]

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As soon as they mentioned her moon covering sonic attack I knew it was over, resistance or not.

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I really dont care about this in any way.

[Rater202]

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Eh, I'd say that Divine Slaying might have made this a closer fight if it had been taken into account.

...Also, there was one occasion where an insane Venom was able to overpower the Juggernaut. Not just stop him but send him in another direction.

The Juggernaut was strong enough to match The Green Scar during World War Hulk. The is persona strong enough to shake planets apart by walking on them.

So, by the transitive property that Screw Attack loves so much... I don't know how it compares to Crona's greatest feat of strength but overpowering the Juggernaut has gotta be up there.

If we go full "Hal Jordon" treatment on Venom then there's regenerating from small scraps+plant control(from Groot) and planet-destroying blasts of concentrated sunlight(from Carol Danvers) as both were previous hosts of Venom.

And the combined powers of Ghost Rider and Red Hulk, if you wanna get Silly with this Hal Jorden treatment.

[McNum]

Spoiler: This Time...

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Pink haired waif-looking anime girl is secretly monstrously powerful. I feel like we've seen that before. Though I have to admit, I'm curious about her series now. It looks hilariously deranged and the idea of a protagonist who just wants nothing to do with everything, but keeps getting dragged into it amuses me.

It is a little odd that both symbiotes lost to a pink haired anime girl, though. Could they not have found something that wasn't a total rerun?

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Meh. I vote purple. Or skip. Skip sounds good right about now.

[Forum Explorer]

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Pink haired waif-looking anime girl is secretly monstrously powerful. I feel like we've seen that before. Though I have to admit, I'm curious about her series now. It looks hilariously deranged and the idea of a protagonist who just wants nothing to do with everything, but keeps getting dragged into it amuses me.

It is a little odd that both symbiotes lost to a pink haired anime girl, though. Could they not have found something that wasn't a total rerun?

Spoiler: Next Time...

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Meh. I vote purple. Or skip. Skip sounds good right about now.

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Crona is the antagonist, not the protagonist. Soul Eater is pretty hilariously deranged though, no arguments there.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

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Actually, I am looking forward to this. You'd think Blue Team would have it thanks to their literal tank, but Red Team has neutralized that pretty easily before with Donut's long-range precision grenade throws, so it'll probably come down to an actual fight between the individual members. And Church's aim is so bad I've long suspected he's literally under the effects of Aasimov's 1st law and just hasn't realized it (which Halo AIs can override fairly easily... but not while fragmented, like Church is). OTOH, Caboose is stupidly strong, which might be enough to make up for that.

Also, I wonder what season they're going with for RvB. Looks like the 1st 5 (the Blood Gulch Chronicles) based on the clip they showed, which is probably the most fair, since Blue team picks up all sorts of stuff later in the series that would give them an enormous edge... most notably Agent Washington, who would basically guarantee their victory.

[HolyDraconus]

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Eh, I'd say that Divine Slaying might have made this a closer fight if it had been taken into account.

...Also, there was one occasion where an insane Venom was able to overpower the Juggernaut. Not just stop him but send him in another direction.

The Juggernaut was strong enough to match The Green Scar during World War Hulk. The is persona strong enough to shake planets apart by walking on them.

So, by the transitive property that Screw Attack loves so much... I don't know how it compares to Crona's greatest feat of strength but overpowering the Juggernaut has gotta be up there.

If we go full "Hal Jordon" treatment on Venom then there's regenerating from small scraps+plant control(from Groot) and planet-destroying blasts of concentrated sunlight(from Carol Danvers) as both were previous hosts of Venom.

And the combined powers of Ghost Rider and Red Hulk, if you wanna get Silly with this Hal Jorden treatment.

Eh, he's not DC though, so they aint going that far for him. And stopping Juggernaut stopped being a feat when Jean did it. Solo.

[TeChameleon]

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...Also, there was one occasion where an insane Venom was able to overpower the Juggernaut. Not just stop him but send him in another direction.

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Wasn't Venom massively amped up on Toxic Mercury when he fought Juggernaut, though?

[Rater202]

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Wasn't Venom massively amped up on Toxic Mercury when he fought Juggernaut, though?

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That drove it insane but wasn't said to power it up IIRC.

Even if it had, if that had empowered it, that empowerment would have been permanent due to how symbiote biology works.

And finally: See them taking a feat of strength that Billy Batson did while at least 100 times as strong as normal as his normal strength and it being the reason he beat Captain Marvel. Temporary or permanent means nothing.

[Dragonus45]

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Yea I think he was, and like a lot of the powerups that supers get it's never clear if that stayed or left. And on the subject of his feats in the angry god carnage stuff he really didn't have many, that arc was a long list of insane bull**** carnage did more then anything else and there is enough argument on how long codes stuff lasts, combined with how recent it actually was, that it's very difficult to really place how much of that should carry over to venom.

[TeChameleon]

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That drove it insane but wasn't said to power it up IIRC.

Even if it had, if that had empowered it, that empowerment would have been permanent due to how symbiote biology works.

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I remember that storyline clearly- Eddie ran into the toxic mercury, went bonkers and got a massive strength boost, it wore off, he decided he wasn't a fan of being quite that nuts, then ran into the Juggernaut, got crushed, and went back to the toxic mercury for the temporary strength boost again. So not a permanent empowerment, especially since it seemed to mess up the symbiote's shapeshifting, with two (involuntary) extra arms and a bunch of screwed up mini-Venom heads sprouting all over his shoulders and upper torso. It was a weird storyline.

[McNum]

Not a lot of talk about the Halloween Werewolf Showdown here, huh?

Spoiler: AWROOOO!

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One is a Darkstalker. One is not.

If you didn't guess Jon Talbain was going to win this one, you haven't kept up with how silly Darkstalkers get. Though I think this is the first win where the loser managed to disembowel the winner and still got killed for it.

But again, one is a Darkstalker, one is not. This one was never in doubt.

It did have my new favorite absolutely silly transitive property calculation for a Death Battle, though. "Ki enough to move all of Ancient Egypt." And then they calculate the total mass of Ancient Egypt.

Next time is still Red vs. Blue. Blue still has a tank. Not really interested in that one.

[Traab]

This battle was full of the stuff I hate most. Transitive property all the way down. They couldnt just stick with the stuff each character actually did, oh no, they had to go "Well he is on the same level as this person who did x crazy thing, therefore they are capable of the same feat!" I dont even think they needed to do it as just the stuff the winner actually did was enough to justify his victory. They made it clear he was at LEAST as strong, even tougher, and had more skill. Then they tossed on "is strong enough to lift 300 aircraft carriers" because some other character had a strength feat that stupid. Bleh.

[McNum]

When it comes to Darkstalkers, it is amusing that Morrigan, the queen of crossovers, hasn't been in one yet.

Though I am not entirely sure who would be able to fight her and have a thematic link. Morrigan is an A-class Darkstalker, if I remember right. And a succubus. You'd need some demon, angel, or demon hunter to get a good opponent for her, and Dante already fought Bayonetta, so the whole bats, magic, and ordnance thing Morrigan can do is a bit old for him already.

[Forum Explorer]

This battle was full of the stuff I hate most. Transitive property all the way down. They couldnt just stick with the stuff each character actually did, oh no, they had to go "Well he is on the same level as this person who did x crazy thing, therefore they are capable of the same feat!" I dont even think they needed to do it as just the stuff the winner actually did was enough to justify his victory. They made it clear he was at LEAST as strong, even tougher, and had more skill. Then they tossed on "is strong enough to lift 300 aircraft carriers" because some other character had a strength feat that stupid. Bleh.

Yeah, it's particularly bad since it's not even 'fought against someone who has that ability', just 'in the same category as them'. Particularly since that category has 10 000 individuals in it. They won't be all that equal in strength.

[Traab]

Yeah, it's particularly bad since it's not even 'fought against someone who has that ability', just 'in the same category as them'. Particularly since that category has 10 000 individuals in it. They won't be all that equal in strength.

Exactly. It would have been less annoying if say, they had pointed out another werewolf who did something insanely powerful as at least that MIGHT apply, but this is like saying, "Werewolves and succubi are both mythological creatures, therefore werewolves can seduce just about anything and need sexual energy to survive." They were comparing two entirely different SPECIES of monster and saying that because they are on a similar power ranking their abilities are equal. Thats so fricking DUMB.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

It'd be less annoying if they phrased it as "this person is on the same level as X/has fought X, and thus can clearly deal with up to X level shenanigans". Because that actually makes a lot of sense. (And they do phrase it that way when they use fully human contestants, like how Leon Kennedy beat a mech because he regularly fights and beats giant monsters and so is capable of beating people with that level of superstrength, therefore that level of superstrength isn't enough to beat him. This makes their insistence on phrasing it as "has" X level of superstrength/superspeed/etc. for superhuman characters weird.)

[hungrycrow]

When are they going to use the "character X has fought character Y on death battle, therefore they are at least as strong as Y" argument.

[Rater202]

When are they going to use the "character X has fought character Y on death battle, therefore they are at least as strong as Y" argument.

"We had Terry fight Miquel, and Miquel is worthy of Mjolnir, so clearly Bruce, who mentored Terry, can defeat Thor..."

"You didn't let Miguel use Mjolnir. In fact, you misunderstood how Mjolnir works and ignored that Miguel's entire original canon was built up to him inheriting Mjolnir..."

"ScrewAttack has Spoken!"

[Lemmy]

Well... There's a big reason one of the past threads is named "Not Even Internally Consistent".

[Anteros]

I'm mildly interested in a Red vs Blue match up. It should be a stomp for Blue but it should be entertaining regardless.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Okay, yeah, giving Agent Texas to the Blue Team pretty much cinches it for them. Red Team has neutralized the tank before (with just a single grenade, from halfway across the canyon no less), but they've only ever beaten Tex by getting the drop on her. She's literally gone up against all of them simultaneously with nothing but her fists and still won.

[Dragonus45]

Okay, yeah, giving Agent Texas to the Blue Team pretty much cinches it for them. Red Team has neutralized the tank before (with just a single grenade, from halfway across the canyon no less), but they've only ever beaten Tex by getting the drop on her. She's literally gone up against all of them simultaneously with nothing but her fists and still won.

Isn't her being like cosmically doomed to failure a plot point about her though?

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Isn't her being like cosmically doomed to failure a plot point about her though?

Yeah, but that's specifically after "almost reaching her goal". If Caboose, Tucker, and possibly Sheila can't mop up the one surviving Red Team member I will be very surprised. (Church is absent from that list because a) he's either 3-Laws compliant and can't hurt humans, or so bad a shot it makes no difference, and b) he is almost certainly going to get team-killed by Caboose).

EDIT: Actually, depending on the scenario, Red Team could pull this off. In close quarters, I can see the rest of Blue Team get isolated and loosing to Reds in 1v1 or small group fights while Tex is off killing Reds in a different location. But if they drop them each in their own base in Blood Gulch (or for that matter, any place with enough open space for a tank to be effective) I can't see Tex (possibly supported by Sheila) being unable to take out most of Red Team before they wipe out Blue Team.

EDIT II: Should be pretty fun to watch, though, even if I think the conclusion is foregone.

[Rynjin]

Even without Tex, I figured the odds would be pretty stacked. Tucker is a one man army with his energy sword by a certain point, and Caboose is stronger than a heavy duty forklift. Meanwhile Simmons and Grif are incompetent, and Donut is a borderline pacifist. That leaves Church as the only dead weight on the Blue team, and Sarge as the only competent combatant on the Red team.

[Anteros]

Lopez isn't completely useless, but yeah. All of the heavy hitters have been part of Blue team. Red team basically has no accomplishments.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Red Team actually has a decent record against freelancers... when they have the element of surprise. They've beaten both Tex (in the first season, so that could and probably should be regarded as Early Installment Weirdness) and Washington (in a legitimately impressive display of competence). Simmons and Doc also managed to knock the Meta out of that same fight. The final fight against the Meta was also mostly Red Team (admittedly softened up by both Texas and Washington, though he did have a regeneration armor ability), and the plan that actually beat him was all them. Of course, take away the element of surprise and the record speaks for itself: lots of humiliating losses.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of any time Blue Team went up against a freelancer-level opponent and won without backup from Red Team and/or a freelancer of their own. Wyoming might count; Tucker was able to punch through his 'save-scumming' ability and foil his plans, but all the copies he left behind soon had Blue Team on the ropes again. (Although I'm a few seasons behind the show; maybe something to that effect has happened since Season 14). But they have a freelancer backing them up for the Death Battle -- and not just any freelancer, Agent Texas, who has beaten them before and is unlikely to be caught off guard until her fate catches up with her. So the point is rather moot.

[Traab]

Soooo that was a thing.

Spoiler: This time

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Blue wins. turns out having a tank and being strong enough to hurl tanks, offsets being idiots.

However next time

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batgirl versus spidergwen? I know batgirl, dont know anything about spider gwen. So no real opinion here other than if spidergwen has the power of spiderman, batgirl is probably going to die. She doesnt even have the batgod plot armor to protect her.

[McNum]

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Unless Barbara can pull off some major new feats, I only see a repeat of Batman vs. Spider-Man here. Spider-Gwen is a legit Spider-person, she scales to Spider-Man.

Sorry Batgirl, but I'm expecting a stomp.