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  1. - Top - End - #181
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    Default Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT

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    Ghost Spider has all powers the same as Spider-Man, except her spider-sense is less reliable.

    She's not as much o an egghead as Peter, but she can jump dimensions at will and she kept her symbiote.

    Gwen Stacy 65 isn't just her worlds Spider-Man, she's also her World's Venom.

    So in Gwen's world, the Cindy Moon of that world was almost bit by a radioactive spider, but ti was squished at the last minute. After finding out that it might have caused mutation, she felt robbed ever since.

    Then Jesse Drew, an astronaut, gets bitten by spider-like aliens while on the moon and almost killed by the unique isotopes in their venom until Cidy studies him and the spiders.

    Jesse is saved, and a bunch of "power-ups" that does him with the same radiation that was in the spiders gives him spider-powers.

    Using what she learned from Jesse and the Moon Spiders, she genetically engineered a hybrid spider and releases it to bite Gwen as a test to give herself superpowers and also leaks the existence of other derivatives from the Spider, which she gives to Peter Parker 65 who uses it to become the Lizard.

    The Lizard formula in Gwen's World is more or less identical to the Main universe one, but it bonds to you molecularly, and when you regenerate your parts come back stronger.

    Eventually, after side effects from the Lizard formula coupled with his having gotten the crap beaten out of him by a Gwen who didn't know he was in thereafter he went feral killed the Peter Parker of this world, the serum was appropriated and improved by a number of people before an almost perfect version was used by Harry Osborn to become the Green Goblin and come after Gwen(without knowing who was behind the mask), as he believed her to have murdered Peter Parker.

    Note: In this universe "Green Goblin" was a roleplaying character that Peter created for Harry when Peter, Harry, and Gwen would play Dungeons and Dragons knock-off as kids.

    Eventually, Harry loses control of the formula and starts mutating into the strongest lizard man yet, but he's able to retain control of himself and after reconciling with Gwen runs off into hiding.

    Cut to a Spider-Crossover where someone(Cindy Moon 65) is stealing tech from Earth 616 and selling it on Earth 65. Long story short, Cindy injects Gwen with Nanomachines that nuetralize the special radiation, and, much like Peter of Earrth 616, while her DNA is altered she needs that radiation to fuel most of her powers.

    As stop gab, she's given some of Jesse Drew's "Power-Ups" that temporarily overpower the nanomachines with a big burst of rads, but the permanent solution comes when Oscorp scientists discover that because the Lizard Formula and the "power-ups" are both derived from the moon spider- that they great to each other.

    The net result is a living symbiote substance that has all of the regenerative powers of the Lizard formula without the mutation or the insanity, and that is also constantly generating a steady source of the isotope that fuels Gwen's powers.

    The problem is that most organisms bonded to the symbiote will quickly be cooked to death.

    Matt Murdock(Who is the King-Pin in Gwen's world) uses this and his knowledge of Harry's whereabouts to manipulate Gwen and Norman Osborn(who here is corrupt but not evil and loves his son) to essentially get Gwen under his control.

    she uses about half a dozen "power-ups" to leach the perfected Lizard/"Goblin" formula out of Harry, where they combine with the Isotopes and from "The Venom" which bonds to Gwen and then she's just Venom for a bit until she gains full control over the Symbiote.

    Gwen's Venom doens't really have a guiding intelligence, it's just... The metaphor used in the comics is that if you're at the grocery store debating whether to buy the white bread or spend the extra on whole wheat, the Venom is the little voice in the back of your head whispering "cake."

    Take the elevator or the stares? "Couch."

    Eventually, Gwen after going through some crap gets it under control enough to resist the Id impulses from the suit and starts teaching it to be good.

    Initially, "Gwenom" was just Gwen's normal powers with the Lizard's regenerative powers and an added weakness to fire or sound, but that weakness was later revealed to be psychosomatic: Murdock put the idea of them in Gwen's head so she, and the symbiote, reacted like they were vulnerable when it the fact that are no more susceptible than they are to any other attack.

    And over time Gwen's gotten in the habit of sending tiny spiders made of her Venom out to help her scan an area in big swarms, and while she doesn't do it often in Spider-Gheddon she generates bladed tentacles to fight off the Inheritors(Inheritors feed on the life force of totems, like Spider-People, but symbiotes mess them up something fierce.)

    She's also got the "make clothes out of my costume" thing that we see with Mainline Venom(it's actually implied that she's just walking around Naked and having the Symbiote cover her up at least one) and the covers of King in Black: Gwenom vs Carnage show her in "Gwenom" mode with claws and extended limbs so she might be getting stretchy.

    so basically, Gwen is Spider-Man but with a super-advanced healing factor that makes her stronger every time she recovers from injury(or at least, makes her costume stronger every time it recovers from damage, it's not clear if the Venom gives Gwen the regen or if it's just the Venom that regens) and can stab you from several feet away./

    Against physically weaker Batman that doesn't have as many gadgets and doesn't have the plot Armor that gives Bruce so many bullcrap outlier feats that mae him seem stronger than he's supposed to be.

    Gwen can't lose if they play this fairly.
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  2. - Top - End - #182
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    Default Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT

    Quote Originally Posted by McNum View Post
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    Unless Barbara can pull off some major new feats, I only see a repeat of Batman vs. Spider-Man here. Spider-Gwen is a legit Spider-person, she scales to Spider-Man.

    Sorry Batgirl, but I'm expecting a stomp.
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    Well, to not make it a complete stomp, she's dodged gunfire and lightning before. And tossed an adult tiger while it was jumping at her. She fought on par with Black Canary, who's stated to be better than Wonder Woman, who can supposedly stomp Big Blue and the Bat. And she's tanked some explosions and a building falling on her, so there's that. Just off of that little tidbit, Gwen has her beat soundly in raw power. Tossing a tiger isn't much compared to holding a building, which Gwen scales to. I BELIEVE that Gwen has her beat in pure speed too. But that combat experience though. She reacted on instinct and clocked the Bat, so her being a better fighter than him has SOME ground to stand on, and coupled that with her reaction speed she could steal this. The ever present Spidey Sense is the only thing I'm seeing keeping this from being fair, and Batgirl doesn't really DO the whole super ninja thing like the rest of the Bat Family, so its not really useful for sussing that out. I can see in some situations Batgirl taking this.

  3. - Top - End - #183
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    Default Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT

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    ... yeah, unless hacking is somehow involved, Babs is... not really a good matchup for Spider-Gwen. Some gadgets, decent martial arts skills, and absolute computer wizardry are not a match for a 10 ton deadlift, superhuman agility and reflexes, combat precognition, the ability to leap five stories plus, and webbing.

  4. - Top - End - #184
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    Default Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT

    This is just another fight that misses the point of the characters. Batgirl would never fight a superior opponent like Gwen head to head to start with. She'd melt away, research, and take her by surprise. With Deathbattle's rules that all characters have to be idiotlusted at all times, this is a stomp against her.

  5. - Top - End - #185
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    Default Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT

    Speaking of sneak attacks, I don't know Gwen very well, but she seems to have some sort of personal teleporter / dimensional portal gadget. Can she use it to launch surprise attacks or is it only for multiversal cross-travel?
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  6. - Top - End - #186
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    Default Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT

    Quote Originally Posted by TeChameleon View Post
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    ... yeah, unless hacking is somehow involved, Babs is... not really a good matchup for Spider-Gwen. Some gadgets, decent martial arts skills, and absolute computer wizardry are not a match for a 10 ton deadlift, superhuman agility and reflexes, combat precognition, the ability to leap five stories plus, and webbing.
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    its been inferred quite heavily that Babs CAN beat Batman, so much so that she tied with Black Canary, who CAN.... in a straight up fist fight. Her fighting prowess and instinct is high. And her reaction and agility is up there, if she's able to tango with DC's best martial artists.

  7. - Top - End - #187
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    Default Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT

    Quote Originally Posted by HolyDraconus View Post
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    its been inferred quite heavily that Babs CAN beat Batman, so much so that she tied with Black Canary, who CAN.... in a straight up fist fight. Her fighting prowess and instinct is high. And her reaction and agility is up there, if she's able to tango with DC's best martial artists.
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    Ah. So they're trying the Returned Barry Allen approach, where they give the attributes of previous popular character (Wally West Flash and Cassandra Cain Batgirl, in this instance) to the one they want to have the mantle in hopes of placating the fans of the displaced character. "See? She's just like the Batgirl you like, so you shouldn't be complaining!"

    *sigh*

    That being said, this still feels like a grievous mismatch.

  8. - Top - End - #188
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    confused Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT

    So, Batgirl blurb is up.
    Wait a minute. Wasn't Barbara the one who got *spoiler*ed in The kiiling Joke? Did they retcon it out of existence?
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  9. - Top - End - #189
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    Default Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT

    Quote Originally Posted by SKarious View Post
    So, Batgirl blurb is up.
    Wait a minute. Wasn't Barbara the one who got *spoiler*ed in The killing Joke? Did they retcon it out of existence?
    In the New 52 they had her paralysis be temporary and she eventually recovered. Which of course, completly undermined pretty much everything done with Barbara since Killing Joke.

    Yeah.
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  10. - Top - End - #190
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    Default Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT

    It's really sad... Because she's the least interesting Batgirl, but was unique and supercool as Oracle.
    To this day, this is one of the New 52 changes that most irk me.
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  11. - Top - End - #191
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    Default Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT

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    To, I'm sure, nobody's surprise Gwen wins. The answer to DC always beating Marvel isn't to put characters on different tiers of power up against each other.


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    Sanji from One Piece versus Rock Lee from Naruto.
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  12. - Top - End - #192
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    Default Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT

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    Duh. Anybody expecting any other outcome was kidding themself. Of course spider gwen won


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    Aww man, i was hoping for deku and rock lee I dont think sanji is going to live to see the all blue. Especially not if they once again decide to bring naruto and sasuke feats into this for some stupid reason. I admit to not being certain what sanjis current top feats are, but I dont think he is really a landscape altering damage dealer is he?
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  13. - Top - End - #193
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    Default Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT

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    Anyone else remember the time Madara was going on a rant to the United Ninja Army and Lee was just like "nope" and kicked him clean in half.

    Like, not the Gai thing, I've been accused of confusing Gai's Night Gai attack for Lee. It was after Naruto gave everyone some Nine-Tails power to revitalize them but before he had nine of his friends jump into the Kurama Construct and help him Rasengan the Ten Tails.

    Related: Lee's first ever use of Ninjustu was doing a perfect Rasengan. Even if we assume that Naruto was helping everyone pull off the technique somehow, Lee still went from 0 to 100 on his first try.

    By the Boruto era, Lee is a full fledged Jonin. Not a special Jonin.

    While both officially hold the same level of authority, there's a distinction between a special jonin and a proper jonin: In order to be a proper jonin, you not only need a certain level of skill, power, and experience, you also need to have a basic level of proficiency in multiple skills, including Ninjutsu and Genjutsu.

    A special Jonin is "you arne't techncially qualified to be a Jonin but we trust that you are capable of handling that kind of responsibility so we're giving you that responsibility as well as the authority that comes with it." Special Jonin are usually specialists in some field: Anko and Ibiki are Torture and interrogation specialists, Ebisu specializes ironically enough in basic techniques and education, and so on.

    So for Lee to be a full-fledged Jonin, that means he must have at some point overcome natural lack of talent in order to achieve at leas the bare minimum level of mastery.

    So... You can argue that Lee should be able to do the Rasengan.

    Incidentally, it's fanon that Lee has some disability. Lee just, has no natural talent of advantages to the point that he really wasn't cut out for being a ninja.

    Then he worked his ass off and in a year became a taijutsu master able to throw down with, and be the first person ever to physically harm, a Jinchuriki.

    Anyone who complains that Naruto is a series that proclaims that "hard work is more important than talent" but then shows people coasting by on talent isn't paying attention...

    In more ways than one: IF you're paying attention, Neji is only as big a threat as he is, not becuase of the talent or his "fate and a prodigy" that he's boasting about, but becuase he stole a technique from the main house and busted his chops learning it. And Kakashi explicitly points out tha tonly a genius could make the kind of improvement that Lee did in such a small amount of time or master the Inner gates to the level that Lee had at his age. The lesson from the Chunin exams is not "genius is worthless, work hard," it's "there are different kinds of geniuses but you need to put in the effort to make anything of it."

    But that requires people to think critically and actually pay attention. IT's so much easier to shout "broken Aesop, Naruto didn't work hard he just used the power he got when he was born herp derp look, it turns out he was born special."

    Bitch, the first chapter of the Manga said that the circumstances of NAruto's birth were important and that he had a lot of potential.
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  14. - Top - End - #194
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    Default Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT

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    Not sure how speed and strength feats match up, but current Sanji can fly, turn invisible, and sense the immediate future.

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    Default Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT

    I admittedly only saw/read a bit of Boruto - to the end of the first major story arc really - but there was very, very little of Rock Lee in that. Apparently there hasn't been much of him since either, which seems to seriously vex his fans if Youtube is any indication.

    So, yeah, I'd go with Sanji. I think Lee has the abstract potential here with what he could do but Sanji has been out there participating in the ever-escalating and generally quite ludicrous One Piece fights for... what? Twenty-three years? Is this still 2020 or have I seen the Tears of Time?

    Plus he can light his leg on fire just by kicking - that's in the high-excess of hypersonic speed - and can run on air while making sonic booms behind him. I'm not clear on how the air-running operates on a scientific level, but the fire-leg kicking thing is just strength I think.

  16. - Top - End - #196
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    Default Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT

    An interesting matchup for once, which is nice.

    I'm inclined to give it to Lee, largely because he scales to Guy, but I could see it going either way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitten Champion View Post
    I admittedly only saw/read a bit of Boruto - to the end of the first major story arc really - but there was very, very little of Rock Lee in that. Apparently there hasn't been much of him since either, which seems to seriously vex his fans if Youtube is any indication.

    So, yeah, I'd go with Sanji. I think Lee has the abstract potential here with what he could do but Sanji has been out there participating in the ever-escalating and generally quite ludicrous One Piece fights for... what? Twenty-three years? Is this still 2020 or have I seen the Tears of Time?

    Plus he can light his leg on fire just by kicking - that's in the high-excess of hypersonic speed - and can run on air while making sonic booms behind him. I'm not clear on how the air-running operates on a scientific level, but the fire-leg kicking thing is just strength I think.
    Gates lee can do the fire leg/fist thing too. And in universe, its been like 3 years that sanji has been seriously fighting and most of that was time skip training with the okama kenpo masters. Experience wise sanji is older, but they have been fighting for real about the same amount of time, maybe more for lee because he had a years head start on naruto. And thats just relying on the naruto series, not boruto in which case he has probably 15-20 years total experience as an active ninja and is older than sanji who is 21. Lee may not be able to sky walk as such unless he goes heavy gates, but he can leap super high and practically float while doing his attack runs.
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  18. - Top - End - #198
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    Default Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Gates lee can do the fire leg/fist thing too.
    Yeah, but Sanji can just kind of do it with no discernable risk or... effort.

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    And in universe, its been like 3 years that sanji has been seriously fighting and most of that was time skip training with the okama kenpo masters. Experience wise sanji is older, but they have been fighting for real about the same amount of time, maybe more for lee because he had a years head start on naruto. And thats just relying on the naruto series, not boruto in which case he has probably 15-20 years total experience as an active ninja and is older than sanji who is 21. Lee may not be able to sky walk as such unless he goes heavy gates, but he can leap super high and practically float while doing his attack runs.
    In-universe? Sure, post-Boruto Rock Lee is going to be more experienced than Sanji, but out-of-universe Rock Lee doesn't get nearly the limelight or battle opportunities as Sanji gets. Nor does he get casual moments of ridiculousness like this --

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    There are so many occasions where Death Battle can take something like that and estimate Sanji's strength to absurd levels, whereas with Rock Lee there's a lot of pointing out how strong he could - or should - be and much less of him throwing bears into space or whatever.

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    Default Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT

    Sanji's burning leg thing isn't a muscle-power/speed thing, especially as he's done it while not moving... there's something about his 'burning passion' or something equally ridiculous that ignites it.

    This is an interesting matchup; the call I'd make without thinking about it too much is that Lee has the advantage in speed, strength and all-around power, but Sanji has a more flexible tool kit with which to combat that.

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    Default Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT

    I think Sanji roughly scales to Luffy and Zoro, so he's got plenty of feats in comparison as well.
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    d6 Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT

    Interesting. If Lee was required to have basic jutsu proficiency to be an official jonin, that would mean a basic henge jutsu would let him beat Sanji eventually.

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    Naruto had a thing for sort-of-but-not-really surpassing the previous generation, so Lee being strong enough to warp space by punching even without going 8 Gates can be considered (I don't follow Boruto so I don't know if it was demonstrated that he already did). What I've been told was that at least some characters in Boruto were much weaker than they were in Naruto because of the long period of peace ridding the necessity of regular training. Then again, Rock Lee's the type of person to regularly maintain peak form through continuously training as a personal goal.

    In terms of reaction time, Sanji is supposed to have observation haki to anticipate attacks, but a similar advantage didn't end up being useful foy Sasuke back when he wasn't as fast as Lee. Then again, Sanji's managed to dodge an attack from Katakuri, who has so much observation haki mastery that it's functionally an immediate-future precognition. Knowing DB, they would make a point of Katakuri being much better than Luffy in all stats, and then scale Sanji likewise.

    Rock Lee's demonstrable speed feats even pre-timeskip was second to none, but I wouldn't be surprised if DB comes up with calculations for Sanji in an attempt to close the gap. One thing that comes to mind is Zoro's very early Whiskey Peak movement speed feat, and how Zoro and Sanji are scaled very close to each other.

    One Piece characters tend to have demonstrably ridiculous feats of strength, regularly effortlessly yeeting gigantic creatures like in the image above. So far, Sanji's best feat has been able to do that to a 80m giant fishman. Lee has less visually impressive feats in that regard, but I wouldn't be surprised if DB can match Lee by scaling him to Gai/Madara/Naruto, or calculating the strength needed to regularly move while wearing his weights.

    In terms of durability, I can't remember anything outstanding coming from Lee unless DB again scales visually unimpressive attacks against Lee to demonstrably powerful building/city/mountain busting attacks. Sanji, like many One Piece characters, casually tank hits from gigantic opponents like sea kings and literal giants even early on, to no lingering injuries or side effects afterwards.
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    Default Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT

    Keep in mind though that as far as naruto universe characters go, db is OBSESSED with bringing in that moon buster feat into every battle even when it requires contortions that would make cirque du soleil professionals blush. They did it for GAI, so its literally one step further to proclaim that lee is also theoretically capable of outperforming literal moon destroying feats of strength and therefore sanji is dead meat.
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    Default Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT

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    So Sanji is in the 'moves fast enough he basically teleports' range. Lee opening all eight gates is probably faster, but maybe not magnitudes faster?
    Last edited by hungrycrow; 2020-12-01 at 08:34 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hungrycrow View Post
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    So Sanji is in the 'moves fast enough he basically teleports' range. Lee opening all eight gates is probably faster, but maybe not magnitudes faster?
    Lee has been doing that since he was a genin with 1 year experience. Being faster than the eye can see against someone who specifically has eyes that are way superior and effectively works as observation haki, AND is expecting the attack, and thats with no gates at all. When he opens his gates he is even more ludicrous. Moving so fast the eye cant follow it is actually a pretty standard skill for naruto verse fighters. In the case of lee its special in that its pure physical prowess, not a ninjutsu effect
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  25. - Top - End - #205
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    Default Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Lee has been doing that since he was a genin with 1 year experience. Being faster than the eye can see against someone who specifically has eyes that are way superior and effectively works as observation haki, AND is expecting the attack, and thats with no gates at all. When he opens his gates he is even more ludicrous. Moving so fast the eye cant follow it is actually a pretty standard skill for naruto verse fighters. In the case of lee its special in that its pure physical prowess, not a ninjutsu effect
    That's explicitly a case of Sasuke's body can't keep up with his vision. He can see all of Lee's movements when he activates Sharigan, but gets punched in the face anyways because he still can't react fast enough. Besides Lee helpfully pointing out exactly what is happening, we see stuff like Sasuke putting up his guard, and Lee just hitting him somewhere else.


    Also that clip of Sanji's was way more impressive. He moved so fast that no one could tell he moved in the first place. It wasn't just moving faster than the eye could see, it was moving so fast it looked like he didn't move at all. If Lee had been moving that fast in the fight against Sasuke, than it would've looked like Sasuke getting pummeled while Lee just stood there and stared at him.
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  26. - Top - End - #206
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT

    I don't know where you got the "doesn't look like he even moved" part.

    The few people actually looking clearly noticed Sanji's movement, even if they couldn't follow it. And it seems like most onlookers where just normal muggles with no special training or powers.
    Last edited by Lemmy; 2020-12-01 at 01:42 PM.
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  27. - Top - End - #207
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    Default Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    I don't know where you got the "doesn't look like he even moved" part.

    The few people actually looking clearly noticed Sanji's movement, even if they couldn't follow it. And it seems like most onlookers where just normal muggles with no special training or powers.
    This. Also, sasuke lost track of lee several times in their little matchup. Lee was even flexing on him while explaining how outmatched he was by casually vanishing and appearing behind him to continue explaining how outmatched he is. And again, thats after a single year of training and no gates and a buttload of weight slowing him down. Which is an important point, lee is so fast he is able to move faster than the eye can see while wearing probably hundreds of pounds of weight on his legs, going by the crater they left when he dropped them.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

  28. - Top - End - #208
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    Default Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT

    Actually yea, I cannot wait to see what the math on his weights is from crater size and drop height.
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  29. - Top - End - #209
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    Default Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT

    The Season Finale has been announced for December 27th.

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    Anyway, time to get mad, get green, and get punchy.

  30. - Top - End - #210
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    Default Re: Death Battle 6: Measured in TNT

    Didnt they do that for one minute melee or one of the other death match type shows?
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

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