Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 31 to 42 of 42
  1. - Top - End - #31
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2015

    Default Re: Who Gets The AC?

    I usually play at a table where ac(and save boosts) is given to the most critical character: the one which can resurrect the others should most die.

  2. - Top - End - #32
    Orc in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2014

    Default Re: Who Gets The AC?

    Quote Originally Posted by aglondier View Post
    Who needs the AC is part of the answer...but what does the item look like? We recently had a very (un)fashionable green and yellow cloak of shielding (+2 shield bonus to AC). No one wanted it because it clashed horribly with their characters style...
    I had a half-orc fighter in second edition who would not care. he wore things for their function, not looks. if he found a hat that looked and smelled like a turd and gave him a +3 to his saving throws, he would wear the turd hat.
    the first half of the meaning of life is that there isn't one.

  3. - Top - End - #33
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Lvl 2 Expert's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Tulips Cheese & Rock&Roll
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Who Gets The AC?

    Quote Originally Posted by vasilidor View Post
    I had a half-orc fighter in second edition who would not care. he wore things for their function, not looks. if he found a hat that looked and smelled like a turd and gave him a +3 to his saving throws, he would wear the turd hat.
    Now add an effect where the hat forces a con save against the poisoned status on the first hit of an encounter and the calculations come out.
    The Hindsight Awards, results: See the best movies of 1999!

  4. - Top - End - #34
    Troll in the Playground
     
    LudicSavant's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Los Angeles

    Default Re: Who Gets The AC?

    There are two competing pressures here.

    One is that AC has escalating returns -- each +1 is more valuable in terms of effective hit points than the last, until the point where you're off the RNG range for the attacker (e.g. they already need a 20 to hit you). Like so:


    Note: Graph excludes crits because the way that affects damage is monster-specific, but the graph retains its general shape.

    The second pressure is that enemies will want to attack whoever it is most beneficial for them to attack.

    The end result is that your ability to profit from you being tankier is proportional to how costly it is for enemies to change targets (e.g. how 'sticky' you are and how 'kitey' your squishies are). It's a balancing act.
    Last edited by LudicSavant; 2020-10-02 at 07:48 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Expected View Post
    Thank you again, LudicSavant, you math skills are VERY useful and so are your graphs and explanations.
    Some of my Stuff:
    Frequency of Resistances in MM, Volo's, MToF | Comprehensive DPR Calculator | An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds | Unusual Life Cleric Character Concepts

    A Reinvented Pantheon (Made for 3.5, but adaptable):
    Nerull | Wee Jas | Olidammara | Erythnul | Hextor | Corellon Larethian | Lolth | The Deep Ones

  5. - Top - End - #35
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Rynjin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2016

    Default Re: Who Gets The AC?

    Quote Originally Posted by LudicSavant View Post
    There are two competing pressures here.

    One is that AC has escalating returns -- each +1 is more valuable in terms of effective hit points than the last. Like so:
    As mentioned in my post, this is not necessarily true. Even as your own graph shows, the chance to be hit can never be lower than 5% under normal circumstances (i.e. excluding re-rolls and other ways to modify hits after the attack has been rolled). That means there is a sharp point of diminishing returns; the returns are diminished into actual nothingness at the point where you are only hit by a 20.

  6. - Top - End - #36
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GreataxeFighterGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2008

    Default Re: Who Gets The AC?

    If you're asking as the DM, the correct answer is: Let the party decide who gets it.

    If you're asking as a member of the party, and the DM is doing the right thing by letting you work it out amongst yourselves, it should go to whichever character the best in-character argument is made for.

  7. - Top - End - #37
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    LordCdrMilitant's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Inner Palace, Holy Terra
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Who Gets The AC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pex View Post
    It's probably easier to think in D&D terms, but I suppose any game will do.

    A magic item appears that boosts AC, doesn't matter if you wear armor or not, and it may or may not have other buffs as well. Who in the party should get it? The squishy who has low AC and can't wear armor to get high AC so he needs every AC bonus he can get? The tank with already high AC who's in the enemy's face getting attacked, taking the hits, but it would be nice to have the bad guys miss him a few times extra for more staying power? The artillery who can wear armor, if not the best, to get a decent AC if not as much as the tank? He stays in the back doing range attacks, and while not attacked as often as the tank does get attacked and would be nice to make the enemy miss more so he can range attack without the enemy being able to retaliate as often.

    If it helps presume it's the first permanent magic item the party gets, so an answer of "Whomever has the fewest items" while admirable and kind is not an applicable solution.
    It depends on how much ac the item gives and what expected to-hit bonuses are.

    That said, in general, I would give it to the character who has high AC. Mathematically, a +1 to AC goes further on a character with existing high AC, until her AC is such that she's only hit on natural 20's, at which point additional AC doesn't make a difference.

    However, a particularly strong AC granting item would be good to give to the lower-AC characters if it brings them up to levels of AC more similar to higher AC characters.
    Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!

  8. - Top - End - #38
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Zanos's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Who Gets The AC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pex View Post
    If it helps presume it's the first permanent magic item the party gets, so an answer of "Whomever has the fewest items" while admirable and kind is not an applicable solution.
    To take the less kind but also probably not helpful path, whoever is willing to count the magic items value(in systems where magic items can be purchased) against their share of the treasure. I have played in groups where people just kind of forgot that magic items are extremely valuable and we wound up in situations where some characters were walking away with 500 gold in their pocket and others with several thousand gold worth of magic items.

    Outside of that, I'd generally say whoever gets attacked the most, which is probably some kind of dedicated melee combatant. Other roles are usually better off avoiding being attacked either by tactical positioning or other defenses, like spells.
    If any idiot ever tells you that life would be meaningless without death, Hyperion recommends killing them!

  9. - Top - End - #39
    Troll in the Playground
     
    LudicSavant's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Los Angeles

    Default Re: Who Gets The AC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    Even as your own graph shows, the chance to be hit can never be lower than 5% under normal circumstances (i.e. excluding re-rolls and other ways to modify hits after the attack has been rolled). That means there is a sharp point of diminishing returns; the returns are diminished into actual nothingness at the point where you are only hit by a 20.
    I was discussing what happens within the RNG range. I thought it went without saying that if an enemy already needs to roll a 20 to hit you, it doesn't help to get another +1 AC against them.

    But in the interest of being fully pedantic, it'd be "Each +1 AC is more valuable in terms of effective hit points than the last, until the point where you're off the RNG range for the attacker."
    Quote Originally Posted by Expected View Post
    Thank you again, LudicSavant, you math skills are VERY useful and so are your graphs and explanations.
    Some of my Stuff:
    Frequency of Resistances in MM, Volo's, MToF | Comprehensive DPR Calculator | An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds | Unusual Life Cleric Character Concepts

    A Reinvented Pantheon (Made for 3.5, but adaptable):
    Nerull | Wee Jas | Olidammara | Erythnul | Hextor | Corellon Larethian | Lolth | The Deep Ones

  10. - Top - End - #40
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Rynjin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2016

    Default Re: Who Gets The AC?

    Quote Originally Posted by LudicSavant View Post
    I was discussing what happens within the RNG range. I thought it went without saying that if an enemy already needs to roll a 20 to hit you, it doesn't help to get another +1 AC against them.
    You would think, but I've met a lot of people who don't think about stuff like that. A strange number of them exist within the optimization community, even.

  11. - Top - End - #41
    Troll in the Playground
     
    LudicSavant's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Los Angeles

    Default Re: Who Gets The AC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    You would think, but I've met a lot of people who don't think about stuff like that. A strange number of them exist within the optimization community, even.
    In that case, I will edit my original post to the 'fully pedantic' version just in case.
    Quote Originally Posted by Expected View Post
    Thank you again, LudicSavant, you math skills are VERY useful and so are your graphs and explanations.
    Some of my Stuff:
    Frequency of Resistances in MM, Volo's, MToF | Comprehensive DPR Calculator | An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds | Unusual Life Cleric Character Concepts

    A Reinvented Pantheon (Made for 3.5, but adaptable):
    Nerull | Wee Jas | Olidammara | Erythnul | Hextor | Corellon Larethian | Lolth | The Deep Ones

  12. - Top - End - #42
    Orc in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2014

    Default Re: Who Gets The AC?

    on the enemy needing to hit you, there is always a monster with a bigger to hit bonus. always.
    the first half of the meaning of life is that there isn't one.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •