OOTS #1213 - The Discussion Thread

[RMS Oceanic]

Got treat.

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

[Qwerty Shrdlu]

Judging by the "crack" in panel four, we're about to see what's inside Kraagor's statue. Kraagor?

[Kantaki]

Oona's great again.
Evil, but still great.
She and Greyview are the best part of Team Evil.

[oonker]

Judging by the "crack" in panel four, we're about to see what's inside Kraagor's statue. Kraagor?

I've noticed we don't see Kraagor after this. I'm guessing this will be importante...

[GrayDeath]

That was another excellent post, though I do wonder how Oona is a Shaman(ish being) with so little Wis in addition to Int (given that she should ahve noticed the signs of a spell vanishing etc).

Still, laughed hard, well done!

[Man on Fire]

I lowkey ship Oona and Redcloak.

[Worldsong]

Good manners are being rewarded!

Despite his jab I think Redcloak appreciates having someone like Oona around. Every sane man needs a cloudcuckoolander.

[understatement]

I know opinions on Redcloak have...fluctuated...but I'm still so looking forward to a goblin team-up battle. Don't think the comic has had one since Redcloak and Jirix in the Azure City throne room.

[KorvinStarmast]

D&D 3.5ish combat question as it applies to the tag team on Minrah.

a. Greyview chomps and also seems to grab Minrah. (Panel's 6 and 7)
b. Title of strip is Grab and Smash.

Question: Did Oona's double mace attack get a benefit to hit, and/or to damage, due to Greyview having (apparently) grappled Minrah?

Also, thanks to @QwertyShrdlu for pointing out the red line crack on the statue. I'd not have noticed that but for your mentioning it.

[dancrilis]

Good manners are being rewarded!

Despite his jab I think Redcloak appreciates having someone like Oona around. Every sane man needs a cloudcuckoolander.

I read it very differently - I think he is frowning at her in panel 1 and 3.
I think he wants people to respect his authority and she doesn't, which leads me to wonder how they were recruited in the first place - and I have to wonder the hand that Xykon played in it.

D&D 3.5ish combat question as it applies to the tag team on Minrah.

a. Greyview chomps and also seems to grab Minrah. (Panel's 6 and 7)
b. Title of strip is Grab and Smash.

Question: Did Oona's double mace attack get a benefit to hit, and/or to damage, due to Greyview having (apparently) grappled Minrah?

Also, thanks to @QwertyShrdlu for pointing out the red line crack on the statue. I'd not have noticed that but for your mentioning it.

I think that was just Greyview tripping her (Worgs are good at that) and Oona hitting her before she hit the ground as a visual item.

As for the red line - I believe those are the statue's glasses.

[danielxcutter]

Redcloak seems annoyed that Oona is not being what he perceives as serious, which may partly originate from wanting to get this over quickly and partly because he’s been humoring Xykon for way too long and he’s fed up with that sort of behavior in general.

[KorvinStarmast]

@danielxcutter

Redcloak seems annoyed that Oona is not being what he perceives as serious, which may partly originate from wanting to get this over quickly and partly because he’s been humoring Xykon for way too long and he’s fed up with that sort of behavior in general.

Oona established early on that she marches to the beat of her own drum. (Strips 1037-1039).

As I read it, Xykon's in his own category of annoying for Redcloak for a host of reasons.

-------------------

Aside: I just had a call back to a TV movie from - gah, is it that long?- over 40 years ago (Breaking Away) about bike riders and the University of Indiana, and the local folks referred to as "Cutters" which comes from working in stone quarries.

Did you used to cut stone? I read 'xcutter' as "ex Cutter" as in "someone who once cut stones". I know, it's a reach, but that's what happens now and again, something goes "ding" in my head and I ask oddball questions.

[Worldsong]

I read it very differently - I think he is frowning at her in panel 1 and 3.
I think he wants people to respect his authority and she doesn't, which leads me to wonder how they were recruited in the first place - and I have to wonder the hand that Xykon played in it.

Redcloak seems annoyed that Oona is not being what he perceives as serious, which may partly originate from wanting to get this over quickly and partly because he’s been humoring Xykon for way too long and he’s fed up with that sort of behavior in general.

Oh he's definitely annoyed, but... in a good way?

What I'm thinking is that compared to the rest of Team Evil she's like a godsent for Redcloak. He hates Xykon with every ounce of his being and MitD is, so far as Redcloak knows, a dim-witted child.

Oona is quirky, but also smart, friendly, helpful and a goblinoid. Basically I imagine that even with people he can get along with Redcloak is a bit of a grump.

[Quizatzhaderac]

i predict that there will much more discussion of the alignment of Oona on this thread.

I used to think she was vertically aligned, but after panel three I'm not so sure.

[understatement]

Oh he's definitely annoyed, but... in a good way?

What I'm thinking is that compared to the rest of Team Evil she's like a godsent for Redcloak. He hates Xykon with every ounce of his being and MitD is, so far as Redcloak knows, a dim-witted child.

Oona is quirky, but also smart, friendly, helpful and a goblinoid. Basically I imagine that even with people he can get along with Redcloak is a bit of a grump.

She even gives him head rubs!

[Jason]

I've got Oona pegged at Neutral Evil now, though she's a polite and cheery Neutral Evil. I think that if you admit that you have serious questions about who you are being asked to kill and why, but you go ahead anyway because an ally (who avoided directly answering your question) asked nicely and you can't think of a reason not to kill people you don't know anything about, then your outlook is essentially evil.

[Windscion]

I've got Oona pegged at Neutral Evil now, though she's a polite and cheery Neutral Evil. I think that if you admit that you have serious questions about who you are being asked to kill and why, but you go ahead anyway because an ally (who avoided directly answering your question) asked nicely and you can't think of a reason not to kill people you don't know anything about, then your outlook is essentially evil.

These aren't random strangers. They are dwarves (racial enemies who pushed them into this barren and cold region) who invaded their territory. Also, RC is an ally of sorts. Why not help?

[KorvinStarmast]

Oona is quirky, but also smart, friendly, helpful and a goblinoid. Basically I imagine that even with people he can get along with Redcloak is a bit of a grump.

Kinda like me some days, particularly when the coffee is a surprise pot of decaf at work.

I've got Oona pegged at Neutral Evil now, though she's a polite and cheery Neutral Evil. I think that if you admit that you have serious questions about who you are being asked to kill and why, but you go ahead anyway because an ally (who avoided directly answering your question) asked nicely and you can't think of a reason not to kill people you don't know anything about, then your outlook is essentially evil.

I am afraid of starting an alignment furball here - please let's not - but within the context of D&Disms simply killing is not inherently evil. That's why I am down for neutral, and also because these are intruders to her village.

[Jason]

These aren't random strangers. They are dwarves (racial enemies who pushed them into this barren and cold region) who invaded their territory. Also, RC is an ally of sorts. Why not help?

That argues that Oona is partially motivated by racism, which would also be essentially an evil outlook.

[Fyraltari]

These aren't random strangers. They are dwarves (racial enemies who pushed them into this barren and cold region) who invaded their territory. Also, RC is an ally of sorts. Why not help?

Invaded my hairy butt, Durkon came to negotiate and Redcloak broke the truce.

[KorvinStarmast]

That argues that Oona is partially motivated by racism

Facepalm. OK, I'm outta this conversation.

[dancrilis]

Invaded my hairy butt, Durkon came to negotiate and Redcloak broke the truce.

Technically you are still invading whether you come to negotiate or not - for instance you get home from work and a stranger is in your house seeking to negotiate with you about something, they have still invaded - you might listen to them but that doesn't change the base line reality that they should have called ahead and meet you in a neutral location if you were willing to speak to them, not showed up in your territory without invitation.

[hroþila]

Technically you are still invading whether you come to negotiate or not - for instance you get home from work and a stranger is in your house seeking to negotiate with you about something, they have still invaded - you might listen to them but that doesn't change the base line reality that they should have called ahead and meet you in a neutral location if you were willing to speak to them, not showed up in your territory without invitation.

Home invasion and trespassing are not the same thing. At most, Durkon and Minrah were trespassing - but do note they weren't actually in anyone's home.

[Fyraltari]

Technically you are still invading whether you come to negotiate or not - for instance you get home from work and a stranger is in your house seeking to negotiate with you about something, they have still invaded - you might listen to them but that doesn't change the base line reality that they should have called ahead and meet you in a neutral location if you were willing to speak to them, not showed up in your territory without invitation.

They're not even in the village proper.

[Worldsong]

They're not even in the village proper.

Get off my property!

[dancrilis]

Home invasion and trespassing are not the same thing.

It was an example - if the person is in your garden or your forest or whatever they are still invading your territory.

They're not even in the village proper.

I suspect that they Bugbear's regard the whole of monster hollow and the village and a fair bit around as their territory.

[Jason]

Well, the "good" action when confronted with a racial enemy in your territory would be to find out who they are and why they are in your territory, and only use force if they won't leave when you don't accept their reasons or if they are actively hostile.
The "neutral" action would be to forcibly escort them out and use lethal force only if they resist, and you may or may not give them a chance to explain their presence afterwards.
The "evil" action is to try to just kill them because they are your racial enemies, without giving them a chance to explain their presence or caring much if they have trespassed.

Oona gets a little wiggle room because it's not clear what she saw. If she came back and saw a fight already going on between her ally and racial enemies then she might even be classed as "good" for attacking immediately to defend her ally, but we know she didn't intervene immediately. If she saw Red Cloak talking with an unarmed Durkon peacefully and then attacking him, then she is at best "neutral" and probably "evil" in attacking with intent to kill without further explanation.

Edit: Note also that Oona was present when Durkon first showed up. She may have left and come back, or she may have stayed and seen the whole debate, though she may not have understood it (does she speak Common?).

[ShurikVch]

"Big faces are getting big maces!"

It sounds... painful...

[Fyraltari]

It was an example - if the person is in your garden or your forest or whatever they are still invading your territory.

In a colloquila sense, maybe. But someone showing up unarmed, making their presence known immediately and asking to parley is very much not an invasion.