Will the PS5 be worth getting right at launch

[Thimblewolf]

I've never bought a console right when it was released before and I was wondering if based on previous form I should expect things to work smoothly at launch or if the console itself and most of the games are going to be bug-ridden messes, coupled with overwhelmed servers.

[Rynjin]

The only reason to ever buy a console is its exclusives.

It doesn't look like the PS5 is going to break the pattern of Playstation consoles not having a killer app exclusive release until about a year or more into its release.

It's pretty much never the right move to buy a new console on release. You pay maximum price for minimum value.

[Zevox]

It's pretty much never the right move to buy a new console on release. You pay maximum price for minimum value.

Typically, quite true. I will say that the PS5 does have a slightly stronger looking lineup at launch to me than most, but that's still shaky. Spider-Man: Miles Morales sounds promising given how excellent the previous Spider-Man game was... but it's also coming out surprisingly quickly after that game, and there was some confusion about whether it was a full standalone game or an expanded version of the original when it was first announced, which doesn't necessarily bode well. And Godfall looks like it could be fun, but then every time they talk about the loot aspect of it I only find myself worried that they've bogged down what looks like an otherwise decent-or-better action game with pointless grindy elements.

Typically though, yeah, it is the safe bet to wait around a year after new consoles launch for their libraries to build up. The launch games are rarely among the console's standouts in the long-term, to say the least, and the previous generation of consoles won't completely lose support (or players, for their multiplayer games) overnight just because the new one have released.

Given the odd way the OP is worded (who expects consoles themselves to be buggy these days? Or thinks servers are an issue for them?) I do find myself wondering if this is a bot post, but eh, it's a question worth answering if anyone else reading is wondering something similar.

[Thimblewolf]

Thanks. This was my what I suspected.

[Anteros]

Console launches usually aren't very buggy. I don't know if the PS5 will have enough interesting games at launch for me to buy it, but I wouldn't worry too much about bugs or servers. For me it'll just depend on the library of games.

[Spore]

Console launches usually aren't very buggy. I don't know if the PS5 will have enough interesting games at launch for me to buy it, but I wouldn't worry too much about bugs or servers. For me it'll just depend on the library of games.

Additiinally if you buy a console on launch there are no sales, and I persoolnally find almost 500 dollars to be preposterous for a new console.

I understand this us a sensible-ish price for hardware these days but I want a bit of leeway because I am technically then bound to buy games for it if I wanted to use it (and not just playing my Steam pile of shame). Like coffeemakers or prjnters, the initial machine is often cheaper than what you spend to use it.

That being said, I am so hard for Bloodborne and Demons Souls

[Man_Over_Game]

Additiinally if you buy a console on launch there are no sales, and I persoolnally find almost 500 dollars to be preposterous for a new console.

Yeah, I just figured I'd just make a budget gaming computer with that kind of money, especially since several exclusives are apparently going to be available on PC (like FFXI), and Nvidia just released a major game-changer in the affordable graphics card industry so everyone's aftermarket cards just plummeted in value.

Buddy of mine was kinda miffed about that last one, considering he does a lot of trades and reselling. He said that most of his stuff is basically worth about half as much now.

[The Glyphstone]

What did Nvidia just let loose? If this is a good time to grab a dirt cheap aftermarket upgrade on my toaster, I might want to go shopping.

[Man_Over_Game]

What did Nvidia just let loose? If this is a good time to grab a dirt cheap aftermarket upgrade on my toaster, I might want to go shopping.

RTX 3000 series. Blew the last series out of the water, and is starting cheaper than the 2000 series when it first came out. Sets the bar high while driving costs down, making it pretty hard for competitors to adapt quickly enough.

For reference, the 3070 (mid-tier, new model) costs half as much as the 2080's release (high-tier, old model) while they're equals in power.


Still, we're talking $500-$1500, but the pricing of used graphics cards are based on what's happening at the top, and now that's a market that's about to get flooded. When tax season hits (at least for here in the US), I suspect there will be a lot of good deals for people who know what they're looking for.

[Fred V]

Its kinda sketchy to buy a used gpu, whatever may have happened to it, be it either a bad user whom overheated it a lot, or a cryptocoins miner.
The one thing u can probably just buy, is an ssd since its api allows u to check its lifecycle things and other stuff.
Also i suggest there would be a quite a lot of scammers when these deals gonna hit the market, my bud one bought a 1060 which was a reflashed 960. Paypal said that was completely alright lol.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

The only reason to purchase a console is to play the exclusives that are otherwise unavailable. At least for the latest XBOX and PS offerings, the Switch has additional functionality as a mobile gaming device that also plays solid games and so may have value beyond the exclusives it offers.

Basically, the PS and XBOX are PC's, with a stripped down OS, functionality locked out, and sold as a loss leader to try to make money back on licensing and video game sales. Functionally, it's all the same inside. Sony and MS can make them cheaper because they get discounts since they buy in huge volume, on top of the loss leader function, which is why they can get away with selling them for 'only' $500.

But I'll be honest... my gaming system I just put together a couple months ago? Can do probably 95% of the performance of either console, for the cost of both combined. And I can actually do business stuff on it as well as gaming. So since I have no interest in any of the exclusives on either console... I'm just gonna pass.

[Anteros]

RTX 3000 series. Blew the last series out of the water, and is starting cheaper than the 2000 series when it first came out. Sets the bar high while driving costs down, making it pretty hard for competitors to adapt quickly enough.

For reference, the 3070 (mid-tier, new model) costs half as much as the 2080's release (high-tier, old model) while they're equals in power.


Still, we're talking $500-$1500, but the pricing of used graphics cards are based on what's happening at the top, and now that's a market that's about to get flooded. When tax season hits (at least for here in the US), I suspect there will be a lot of good deals for people who know what they're looking for.

You're talking 700 minimum just for the 3080. Then you have to buy the rest of the computer, the software, the monitor, etc. I feel like the portion of the market for people who will have to choose between a 400 dollar ps5 and a 2,000 dollar PC is fairly small.

I also agree with the poster who said you probably don't want to buy a used GPU. It's most likely been burnt up by crypto-currency mining.

The only reason to purchase a console is to play the exclusives that are otherwise unavailable. At least for the latest XBOX and PS offerings, the Switch has additional functionality as a mobile gaming device that also plays solid games and so may have value beyond the exclusives it offers.

Basically, the PS and XBOX are PC's, with a stripped down OS, functionality locked out, and sold as a loss leader to try to make money back on licensing and video game sales. Functionally, it's all the same inside. Sony and MS can make them cheaper because they get discounts since they buy in huge volume, on top of the loss leader function, which is why they can get away with selling them for 'only' $500.

But I'll be honest... my gaming system I just put together a couple months ago? Can do probably 95% of the performance of either console, for the cost of both combined. And I can actually do business stuff on it as well as gaming. So since I have no interest in any of the exclusives on either console... I'm just gonna pass.

There's a comfort aspect to playing on a console that you don't get with PC. Don't get me wrong, I'm a PC gamer first, but it's undeniable that it's much easier to just flip a console on and veg out on the couch with a controller than to play on a PC. Plus it's way easier for local co-op, and even with online gaming a lot of your friends may not own a gaming PC while almost everyone will own one of the major consoles. There's plenty of reason to buy a console even if you have a gaming PC.

As for the Switch...I honestly consider it a small step above mobile phone gaming. It's all the inconvenience of carrying around a giant unwieldy screen with no battery life combined with cutting edge PS2 level hardware. There's a few decent games on there, but it's mostly just staying alive by pandering to a younger audience, or the hardcore Nintendo fans who will buy literally anything if you slap Link or Mario on it. That's all fine, but there's a huge portion of people it doesn't appeal to.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

There's a comfort aspect to playing on a console that you don't get with PC. Don't get me wrong, I'm a PC gamer first, but it's undeniable that it's much easier to just flip a console on and veg out on the couch with a controller than to play on a PC. Plus it's way easier for local co-op, and even with online gaming a lot of your friends may not own a gaming PC while almost everyone will own one of the major consoles. There's plenty of reason to buy a console even if you have a gaming PC.

I would respectfully disagree with virtually every single one of those statements. Pulling up a game on the PC is no more difficult than pulling up a game on Console. Rather less, in my experience, because there is no shuffling around of discs. You can have controllers for PC, I've got one for those games which work better with controller than keyboard and mouse, however you have the added flexibility of having a keyboard and mouse for those games which are better suited for IT, which is not an option for most consoles. Local Co-op is called LAN, although these days multiplayer games don't need you to physically be present anymore because the internet exists and is now stable, obviating split-screen co-op entirely. Especially in the current state of affairs, wherein visiting friends is distinctly discouraged.

So no, I stand by my statement. I don't desire any of the console exclusives, therefore I see no value in PS or XBOX consoles. Haven't in some time. The last console I owned was a PS2.

As for the Switch...I honestly consider it a small step above mobile phone gaming. It's all the inconvenience of carrying around a giant unwieldy screen with no battery life combined with cutting edge PS2 level hardware. There's a few decent games on there, but it's mostly just staying alive by pandering to a younger audience, or the hardcore Nintendo fans who will buy literally anything if you slap Link or Mario on it. That's all fine, but there's a huge portion of people it doesn't appeal to.

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on this topic as well. The Switch is basically a gaming tablet, but does have a substantially better processor than most tablets currently available on the market and is quite capable of playing 1080p games, either on itself or docked.

The primary advantage the Switch has over mobile gaming such as on a tablet is the built in controls which function on either side of the screen rather than taking up screen space on a tablet or phone, which is a distinct advantage. And it can be docked to provide a more traditional console experience with a Pro controller. You could, for example, get yourself a 256GB MicroSD card, load it up with games of your choice for the Switch, and on your business trip you can play the Switch in mobile form while in transit (train, plane, etc...) then when you get to your hotel room, hooking up the dock is a straightforward process and continue playing with less cubic footage wasted than with a more traditional console, giving you effectively the best of both worlds. As I have done before.

[Rodin]

For me there's room for all 3.

PC - most versatile, mouse and keyboard is still the best control setup for numerous types of game. However, being sat at a desk has its problems and my gaming time on PC is restricted by how long I can play before I have to get up and move. Also has the problem of being too similar to being sat in an office at work - sometimes I don't want to game on PC because I've just spent 8 hours sat at a different PC.

Console on TV - I get to play in my recliner with a bigger screen. Much more relaxing experience.

Handheld/tablet - I don't do much tablet because I don't like touchscreens and most tablet games are filled with microtransactions. I mostly just do Hearthstone and TFT. For everything else there's the Switch. The big screen size is a bonus to the point I find it hard to go back to older handhelds. The graphics/processing power don't matter one bit - if I want that, I'll play on PS4. What Switch has is a huge library of indie games which the Switch is more than powerful enough to handle. Playing Rogue-likes while watching TV is the main advantage. I watch lots of "talky" TV like quiz shows and panel shows. Hearthstone tournaments are a good watch this way too - the players take their turns slowly enough that you can keep up while still playing Gungeon or Isaac or Streets of Rage 4.

Console and format wars are silly. They all have different advantages. Find the setup you like best and roll with it.

[Anteros]

I would respectfully disagree with virtually every single one of those statements. Pulling up a game on the PC is no more difficult than pulling up a game on Console. Rather less, in my experience, because there is no shuffling around of discs. You can have controllers for PC, I've got one for those games which work better with controller than keyboard and mouse, however you have the added flexibility of having a keyboard and mouse for those games which are better suited for IT, which is not an option for most consoles. Local Co-op is called LAN, although these days multiplayer games don't need you to physically be present anymore because the internet exists and is now stable, obviating split-screen co-op entirely. Especially in the current state of affairs, wherein visiting friends is distinctly discouraged.

So no, I stand by my statement. I don't desire any of the console exclusives, therefore I see no value in PS or XBOX consoles. Haven't in some time. The last console I owned was a PS2.

It's obvious that the last console you owned was a PS2 because modern consoles aren't any more tied to discs than PCs are. They also allow you to use a keyboard and mouse if you want to. Not that I'd ever want to for most console games. Keyboard and mouse requires you to be tethered right in front of a desk to use, so while it does confer a much greater degree of precision for RTS or shooting games, it's not nearly as relaxing, and while you can use a controller on PC, I find the bluetooth configuring when I want to do so to be a chore where consoles are plug+play.

And yes, the internet does exist, but most of us actually do have real-life friends that we enjoy interacting with in person. I'm very genuinely sorry if that isn't the case for you. You're right that quarantine is a thing right now, but it won't be forever, and generally there's a great deal of overlap between one's friends and people they're forced to interact with for school or work anyway. Nevermind the fact that most of us have roommates or relationships with people who we live with anyway.

LAN exists but it's an incredible chore to get people together for that. Putting aside the fact that most of my real-life friends probably don't even own a gaming PC, no one wants to lug a giant PC and monitor around to visit friends. That's much less convenient as an adult than walking into someone's house, grabbing a controller, and immediately being able to play.

I don't care if you personally want to own a console or not but blanket statements like that they have "no value" if you aren't interested in exclusives are objectively false.

[Rodin]

I was shocked this summer by the lack of online multiplayer for many recent console games. Games like New Super Mario Bros U seem ideal for online multiplayer with friends, but it had no such functionality. Even some games that have it are sloppily implemented, like the absolute travesty of a multiplayer system in Monster Hunter World. Others have seemingly arbitrary region restrictions.

The biggest things I want out of the PS5 have nothing to do with graphics or innovative gameplay features. I want Sony to put in the work and make a front-end UI that doesn't suck, and I want the developers to learn that online multiplayer is just as important as couch co-op.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

It's obvious that the last console you owned was a PS2 because modern consoles aren't any more tied to discs than PCs are. They also allow you to use a keyboard and mouse if you want to. Not that I'd ever want to for most console games. Keyboard and mouse requires you to be tethered right in front of a desk to use, so while it does confer a much greater degree of precision for RTS or shooting games, it's not nearly as relaxing, and while you can use a controller on PC, I find the bluetooth configuring when I want to do so to be a chore where consoles are plug+play.

I'm more speaking to games that shouldn't have been ported over to console in the first place, titles such as Skyrim, or games that reduce functionality for PC to make it easier to port to console, when I'm talking about keyboard and mouse. Tethered to a desk or tethered to your TV, if you're playing a game, you're tethered either way.

Also, you can buy a cheap USB controller for like twenty bucks. Or, if you prefer, virtually every bluetooth card remembers which devices it has paired to, so pairing is a once-ever deal. At least in my experience.

And yes, the internet does exist, but most of us actually do have real-life friends that we enjoy interacting with in person. I'm very genuinely sorry if that isn't the case for you. You're right that quarantine is a thing right now, but it won't be forever, and generally there's a great deal of overlap between one's friends and people they're forced to interact with for school or work anyway. Nevermind the fact that most of us have roommates or relationships with people who we live with anyway.

Generally my circle of friends and I have better things to do than video games, particularly ones that have reduced functionality in an attempt to cram multiple players on the same screen, when we get together.

I don't care if you personally want to own a console or not but blanket statements like that they have "no value" if you aren't interested in exclusives are objectively false.

Now you're taking partial quotes out of context. It wasn't a blanket statement, but in inherently subjective one. "I see no value", not simply 'they have no value'. See the difference? Personally, I'm of the opinion (again, subjective statement here) that the only reason the console market still exists is due to the arbitrary exclusivity of certain titles. But, like, that's just my opinion. You're free to have your own opinion. That's part of being in a community, people can disagree on topics, and that's just fine.

[Ortho]

As for the Switch...I honestly consider it a small step above mobile phone gaming. It's all the inconvenience of carrying around a giant unwieldy screen with no battery life combined with cutting edge PS2 level hardware. There's a few decent games on there, but it's mostly just staying alive by pandering to a younger audience, or the hardcore Nintendo fans who will buy literally anything if you slap Link or Mario on it. That's all fine, but there's a huge portion of people it doesn't appeal to.

If you consider 63 million units sold to be just "staying alive", I'm curious as to what your criteria for success is.

I'm more speaking to games that shouldn't have been ported over to console in the first place, titles such as Skyrim, or games that reduce functionality for PC to make it easier to port to console, when I'm talking about keyboard and mouse. Tethered to a desk or tethered to your TV, if you're playing a game, you're tethered either way.

How would a game lose functionality when it's ported to a console? The gameplay is the same either way. If anything, it's the other way around, since PCs don't have the hardware that consoles do - motion controls and analog buttons, for instance.

And while you can buy a gamepad for your PC, the argument that PCs are superior to consoles really starts to break down if you advocate buying console-built hardware for your PC.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

How would a game lose functionality when it's ported to a console? The gameplay is the same either way. If anything, it's the other way around, since PCs don't have the hardware that consoles do - motion controls and analog buttons, for instance.

Motion control is just a crappy way of emulating a mouse, meanwhile you have a whole keyboard of buttons instead of less than a dozen. See also things like Skyrim which was designed for a PC then ported over to console, then over to mobile, then over to toasters, losing certain functionality, particularly with hotkeys, every time.

[Ortho]

Motion control is just a crappy way of emulating a mouse, meanwhile you have a whole keyboard of buttons instead of less than a dozen. See also things like Skyrim which was designed for a PC then ported over to console, then over to mobile, then over to toasters, losing certain functionality, particularly with hotkeys, every time.

Wii Sports would beg to disagree with you on the motion-control front. As would Just Dance.

Also, having 101 buttons on a keyboard isn't necessarily an advantage. Anything right of the "G" key is unusable if you want to use WASD for movement, for instance. And racing games in particular suffer because of the lack of analog inputs.

---

You keep bringing up Skyrim as an example of a game being gutted in the transition, but that's hardly the case. The only functionality that was truly lost is the developer console. Everything else - quicksave, quickload, opening the inventory - just takes an additional button press or two, which is a very far cry from a loss of functionality.

[Mechalich]

Now you're taking partial quotes out of context. It wasn't a blanket statement, but in inherently subjective one. "I see no value", not simply 'they have no value'. See the difference? Personally, I'm of the opinion (again, subjective statement here) that the only reason the console market still exists is due to the arbitrary exclusivity of certain titles. But, like, that's just my opinion. You're free to have your own opinion. That's part of being in a community, people can disagree on topics, and that's just fine.

Consoles are significantly cheaper than gaming PCs. Given that PC gaming has stratified to the point that everyday retail PCs without graphics cards may struggle to run games that the 3DS can handle, this is a significant factor in support of the console market. The lower price also makes consoles appealing as secondary systems - my PS4 serves as my Blu-Ray player and as the streaming box for my TV, since I have an older TV that doesn't handle streaming on its own. These features are losing utility over time, since they tend to be integrated into newer TVs but they were certainly highly significant to the previous generation of consoles.

Personally I think consoles appeal mostly to casual gamers, those who play some games but are uninterested or unable to interest in gaming sufficiently to purchase or construct a gaming-level PC. Modern retail PCs are no longer designed to support gaming at all because the difference in construction between doing pretty much all non-gaming related tasks and being gaming capable continues to increase massively.

The said, arbitrary exclusivity absolutely does support console purchases by adults with discretionary income sufficient to support purchasing a console in addition to a gaming PC (I personally fall into this market segment, and I have several friends who do too). The overwhelming majority of console games I own are either total exclusives or games that were not ported over for many months or even years.

[Rodin]

Consoles are significantly cheaper than gaming PCs. Given that PC gaming has stratified to the point that everyday retail PCs without graphics cards may struggle to run games that the 3DS can handle, this is a significant factor in support of the console market. The lower price also makes consoles appealing as secondary systems - my PS4 serves as my Blu-Ray player and as the streaming box for my TV, since I have an older TV that doesn't handle streaming on its own. These features are losing utility over time, since they tend to be integrated into newer TVs but they were certainly highly significant to the previous generation of consoles.

Personally I think consoles appeal mostly to casual gamers, those who play some games but are uninterested or unable to interest in gaming sufficiently to purchase or construct a gaming-level PC. Modern retail PCs are no longer designed to support gaming at all because the difference in construction between doing pretty much all non-gaming related tasks and being gaming capable continues to increase massively.

The said, arbitrary exclusivity absolutely does support console purchases by adults with discretionary income sufficient to support purchasing a console in addition to a gaming PC (I personally fall into this market segment, and I have several friends who do too). The overwhelming majority of console games I own are either total exclusives or games that were not ported over for many months or even years.

I don't think retail is a helpful word here. I can go buy a retail gaming PC at any price level from extremely budget up to "gaming god". The internals of the PC have no effect on whether I bought the machine from a retailer or not.

That said, it's hard to come up with a proper separation of terms. The easiest I can come up with is home, office, and gaming.

A home PC is your basic family PC that's meant to be a general workhorse. It has to be able to handle multiple users with different needs, some office work, some level of gaming, etc. etc.

An office PC has to be fairly powerful because office workers may need to have a TON of stuff open at once. They're multi-tasking rather than the home user who is doing one thing. On the other hand, there is no need for a good graphics card because you aren't going to playing games on it.

A gaming PC has to have a good graphics card, be powerful enough to run new games, and probably needs more disk space. They will tend to be more expensive than the other types, although this is not necessarily true. A high end office PC is going to cost more than a budget gaming PC.

Most retailers will offer all three types, with emphasis on home and gaming.

[Anteros]

If you consider 63 million units sold to be just "staying alive", I'm curious as to what your criteria for success is.

Well, kids and Nintendo fanboys/fangirls are certainly a huge market. I'm not arguing that they aren't successful by any means. Just that they aren't trying to appeal to the exact same markets as PC and console gaming.

I was shocked this summer by the lack of online multiplayer for many recent console games. Games like New Super Mario Bros U seem ideal for online multiplayer with friends, but it had no such functionality. Even some games that have it are sloppily implemented, like the absolute travesty of a multiplayer system in Monster Hunter World. Others have seemingly arbitrary region restrictions.

The biggest things I want out of the PS5 have nothing to do with graphics or innovative gameplay features. I want Sony to put in the work and make a front-end UI that doesn't suck, and I want the developers to learn that online multiplayer is just as important as couch co-op.

MHW's online play is a travesty regardless whether you're on PC or console. That game is honestly intentionally designed to make things as tedious and grindy as possible in every aspect. Even non gameplay things like unskippable cutscenes and the online play. It's an absolutely fantastic game...designed by a group of masochists.

[Amechra]

Nintendo is actually a really weird case, since they aren't really in the AAA gaming space. They focus on innovating on older, cheaper hardware, with an eye towards social gaming. The fact that the Switch is priced like the PS4 (and that they screwed up online multiplayer) is probably a stumble on their part.

Seriously, if they had dropped the specs by a little and dropped the price per unit by, like, $50? They'd be moving way more product.

[Ortho]

Well, kids and Nintendo fanboys/fangirls are certainly a huge market. I'm not arguing that they aren't successful by any means. Just that they aren't trying to appeal to the exact same markets as PC and console gaming.

You're not wrong....but then again, that means there's a reason to pick up a Switch when you already have a PC/Playstation/Xbox.

Nintendo is actually a really weird case, since they aren't really in the AAA gaming space. They focus on innovating on older, cheaper hardware, with an eye towards social gaming. The fact that the Switch is priced like the PS4 (and that they screwed up online multiplayer) is probably a stumble on their part.

Seriously, if they had dropped the specs by a little and dropped the price per unit by, like, $50? They'd be moving way more product.

Better late than never, I suppose.

It's interesting that we have three different people with three different ideas as to Nintendo's success. That probably says something about their business strategy.

---

To actually answer Thimblewolf's question, the value of a console lies in its games, so it depends on whether or not this list interests you.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Local Co-op is called LAN, although these days multiplayer games don't need you to physically be present anymore because the internet exists and is now stable, obviating split-screen co-op entirely. Especially in the current state of affairs, wherein visiting friends is distinctly discouraged.

While I don't disagree with the rest of your post, I'd argue that genuine local co-op is more important now than ever. My family is always on the hunt for new local games to play together, since online co-op is absolutely useless when most of the people you want to play with are in the same house and there are a limited number of devices to play on. We're limited to Jackbox Party Pack(s), Among Us, ... and console games.

Is that a niche market? Maybe, but I have to believe families with more than one kid that likes to play video games are a pretty big niche.