Pokémon Thread XXX: Hot Skitty on Wailord Action!

[OracleofWuffing]

I'd feel comfortable classifying Magearna as a robot. Registeel is... Pretty close to the concept, too. Golett and Golurk are a bit out left field, and I wouldn't argue with anyone saying they're not a robot, but they're robot enough for me.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

I'd feel comfortable classifying Magearna as a robot. Registeel is... Pretty close to the concept, too. Golett and Golurk are a bit out left field, and I wouldn't argue with anyone saying they're not a robot, but they're robot enough for me.

Are golems robots? A bunch of clay or other stuff animated by means of some form of magic spirit, predating technological robots as a concept? I would personally not count Golett, Golurk or any of the Regi's.

[Saambell]

Are golems robots? A bunch of clay or other stuff animated by means of some form of magic spirit, predating technological robots as a concept? I would personally not count Golett, Golurk or any of the Regi's.

Golett and Golurk are intentionally designed with the Iron Giant in mind, complete with knowing Fly. So that weird edge of "looks like something that doesn't count, but inspired by something that does".

Edit: The anime also really likes using it in place of giant robots/mecha in their stories. So it may not technically be a "robot" but its very much a stand in for one.

[OracleofWuffing]

Are golems robots? A bunch of clay or other stuff animated by means of some form of magic spirit, predating technological robots as a concept?

I say one does not preclude the other. One reason why I brought up Registeel and no other of its kin was that it's made out of stuff associated with robots and machines as we know them today. Generally speaking, a robot is a machine made to do a task with little human intervention, they don't need to have microchips or circuit boards. Cliche as it may be, any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic, and I am aware of no rules preventing a golem (the folklore concept, not the pokemon ) from being made out of the same things as a robot.

Saying that Registeel is a golem implies that it is a thing made to do a task with little human intervention. If that "thing" happens to be a machine, then it's a robot. Not all golems are robots, not all robots are golems, but some can be both. There's a point to acknowledge that Registeel isn't necessarily a machine, nor created to do a specific task, but this is due to an intentionally vague story that, in the most generous view, invites the player to fill in the blanks.

[Emmerlaus]

I think the Porygon and it’s evos are machine as well.

[Rater202]

I think the Porygon and it’s evos are machine as well.

They're not, they're AI that's been projected into real space.

They are, however, entirely man-made.

Porygon does kind of get the short end of the stick though. It's been banned from the anime as a scapegoat for an incident caused by a combination of poor animation decisions. poor newsroom decisions(apparently, the news station that reported on the seizure incident played the seizure-inducing clips during the report) and possibly mass hysteria.

In the games. they... are explicitly noted as of Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon to be obsolete, to have not succeeded in their purpose of space travel(I don't know why you'd bring computer code to life for that) and have been completely replaced in their role as the "AI and Internet" Pokemon by Rotom.

Also, they are a first form evolution that can only be evolved by trading and the use of unique evolution items simultaneously, and it's noted in-universe that their third form is glitched upgrade created by a hack of a hacker and that you got the upgrade from a disc of questionable legality or something along those lines.

[Lord Raziere]

In the games. they... are explicitly noted as of Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon to be obsolete, to have not succeeded in their purpose of space travel(I don't know why you'd bring computer code to life for that) and have been completely replaced in their role as the "AI and Internet" Pokemon by Rotom.

where in Ultramoon did you read this, cause I never knew that, and I have that game.

you'd probably bring computer code to life for space travel, because its less resources. efficiency of resources is everything in a closed environment. if you could literally make digital energy have physical form from nothing, and make that energy intelligent enough to pilot the ship, you wouldn't need to plan for somehow setting up recycling systems to sustain human life, or need to repair a robot if they get damaged, because you can just make the ship have solar panels, drain energy to repair itself then get on with operating and repairing the ship if things go wrong.

combine with the Conversion moves and it can literally adapt to any environment that it encounters. while its normal base typing keeps it adaptable and flexible and thus open to as much utility moves as redundancies as possible.

its not a bad set up, and its a shame if its true because Rotom isn't better than porygon by any significant measure, in some way worse because it requires outside battle time and objects to change form and typing and they clearly just made that "obsolete" excuse up because they're too afraid to bring back Porygon even though the whole porygon epilepsy thing is 20+ years old by now and probably only known or remembered by hardcore fans who delve into Deep Lore after wondering why we never see the polygonal AI dino. its a shame.

[Rater202]

It's the Pokedex entries: In Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon you get Porygon by going to the Aether House after completing the Rainbow Rocket post-game thing(as opposed to the base game where you get it after becoming the Champion.)

It's Ultra Sun Pokedex entry

This Pokémon was created using the cutting-edge science of 20 years ago, so many parts of it have since become obsolete.

Ultra Moon

It was built 20 years ago by scientists who dreamed of exploring space. Their dreams have yet to come true.

Also... Porygon is a digital life-form brought to life and given permanent physical form.

Now, turning Pokemon into energy and storing them as data is one thing, but bringing porygon to life is something else entirely: You're literally creating matter out of nothing, and might be making energy out of nothing while we're at it.

That's more an "accidentally discovered it's possible so let's perfect it" thing than a "this is our first plan thing."

[Bartmanhomer]

I might consider Meltan and Melmetal as robots because they're pure steel type Pokemon.

[boj0]

So..does that make Perrserker a robot? Or Copperajah? What about Arceus-Steel?

[Lord Raziere]

So..does that make Perrserker a robot? Or Copperajah? What about Arceus-Steel?

No.

Some pokemon just have steel shells and hides. no typing ties you to one thing: poison type includes both venomous animals and living animate pollutants after all.

[boj0]

I know, I'm calling into question Bartmanhomer's logic that some Pokemon are robots due to pure Steel typing, by asking about Steel types that are clearly not robots.

[Lord Raziere]

I know, I'm calling into question Bartmanhomer's logic that some Pokemon are robots due to pure Steel typing, by asking about Steel types that are clearly not robots.

oh sorry. That makes more sense.

(personally I think Lvl 2 Expert's opinion that golems and robots are different things is splitting hairs and that there is no good reason why something predating something else somehow makes it exempt from being another thing, but whatever)

[Rater202]

If a robot is defined as an intentionally constructed automaton, then that would include golems.

There have been toys that we now always would recognize as rudimentary robots for centuries and the earliest conception of what might be considered a modern robot dates back to Greek Myth.

Technically, this definition would include Porygon as an autonomous synthetic organism, but most people think of gears and wires and metal, not pure AI that happens to exist in real space.

[Bartmanhomer]

I also want to critique the Pokemon Accuracy and Evasion Status. Ever since Generation 1, some moves will increase or decreased Pokemon Accuracy and Evasion status but yet they didn't include this status in the game. The only status they include is Hit Points, Attack, Defense, Special Attack, Special Defense, and Speed. They should include Accuracy And Evasion Status in the game as well.

[Rater202]

Accuracy status is part of the move, not the pokemon: Each move has an accuracy number stating how often it hits at base level

Though some moves calculate it differently: Guillotine says that it's accurate is 30, but instead, it bypasses the accuracy check entirely and has t's ods of hitting calculated with a formula wherein the targets level is subtracted from the users, then added to 30, to determine the odds of hitting(this is why it fails if the target is a higher level and why it almost never seems to work if you use it on a mon that's close to you in level.)

[Bartmanhomer]

Accuracy status is part of the move, not the pokemon: Each move has an accuracy number stating how often it hits at base level

Though some moves calculate it differently: Guillotine says that it's accurate is 30, but instead, it bypasses the accuracy check entirely and has t's ods of hitting calculated with a formula wherein the targets level is subtracted from the users, then added to 30, to determine the odds of hitting(this is why it fails if the target is a higher level and why it almost never seems to work if you use it on a mon that's close to you in level.)

I still think that accuracy and evasion stats are just as important just like any other stats to be included in the game and I know that one hit moves never work unless you use Mind Reading and Lock-On. These moves are 100% accurate.

[Fable Wright]

I still think that accuracy and evasion stats are just as important just like any other stats to be included in the game and I know that one hit moves never work unless you use Mind Reading and Lock-On. These moves are 100% accurate.

The pokemon accuracy and evasion stats are all the same outside of battle, and never vary per pokemon. They are important in battle, only when changed; otherwise, they are all the same per pokemon. Why include a number in the statline that's the same for each and every pokemon?

Accuracy and Evasion in battle, on the other hand, affect moves' success rate. For example, Accuracy at +1 stage increases all of that pokemon's move's accuracy by 33%; so a 75% accuracy move will become a 99% accuracy move. Meanwhile, Evasion at +1 means that incoming moves have their accuracy decreased by 25%, so a 100% accurate move will miss 25% of the time, and a 75% accurate move will miss 44% of the time.

[Bartmanhomer]

The pokemon accuracy and evasion stats are all the same outside of battle, and never vary per pokemon. They are important in battle, only when changed; otherwise, they are all the same per pokemon. Why include a number in the statline that's the same for each and every pokemon?

Accuracy and Evasion in battle, on the other hand, affect moves' success rate. For example, Accuracy at +1 stage increases all of that pokemon's move's accuracy by 33%; so a 75% accuracy move will become a 99% accuracy move. Meanwhile, Evasion at +1 means that incoming moves have their accuracy decreased by 25%, so a 100% accurate move will miss 25% of the time, and a 75% accurate move will miss 44% of the time.

Of course, they're important. That's my point. Every Pokemon is different and unique and its way and so is their accuracy and evasion.

[Rater202]

...what would a Dragon-Type Eeveelution look like?

All I can picture are things that look too much like vaporeon.

[Bartmanhomer]

...what would a Dragon-Type Eeveelution look like?

All I can picture are things that look too much like vaporeon.

I think so too. I'm picturing a Fighting-Type Eeveelution will be muscular.

[Saambell]

...what would a Dragon-Type Eeveelution look like?

All I can picture are things that look too much like vaporeon.

I imagine a purple and yellow dragon thing that preys on sheep pokemon. That way lies lawsuits though.

[boj0]

Of course, they're important. That's my point. Every Pokemon is different and unique and its way and so is their accuracy and evasion.

1) Pokemon already have different Accuracy and Evasions, that's what abilities like No Guard, Compound Eyes, Hustle, Sand Veil, and items like Bright Powder are for.

2) If you mean something like all ~900 Pokemon have Accuracy and Evasion stats beyond "The move they use" and "None" adjusted by Abilities, then you've just created a mess so large, that at that point I would gladly welcome the death of Pokemon as a franchise.

[Bartmanhomer]

1) Pokemon already have different Accuracy and Evasions, that's what abilities like No Guard, Compound Eyes, Hustle, Sand Veil, and items like Bright Powder are for.

2) If you mean something like all ~900 Pokemon have Accuracy and Evasion stats beyond "The move they use" and "None" adjusted by Abilities, then you've just created a mess so large, that at that point I would gladly welcome the death of Pokemon as a franchise.

I like the first one better.

[Saambell]

Of course, they're important. That's my point. Every Pokemon is different and unique and its way and so is their accuracy and evasion.

Pokemon don't have those stats. MOVES have Accuracy, and all a Pokemon changing those "stats" is just modifying the MOVE'S Accuracy. So raising its own accuracy makes its move's accuracy go up, but what that number is is based on the move. And raising evasion is just lowering the MOVE-that-is-targeting-them's evasion. If you want to see those numbers, check what the numbers are on the move. Every move has 3 sets of numbers connected with them, at minimum. Power, Accuracy, and Power Points. So Fire Blast has Power 110, Accuracy 85, and Power Points 5/5. So that means unless you boost Acc or Evasion, in theory a Fire Blast will hit 85% of the time. But when a pokemon boosts its Accuracy, its modifying its MOVE's accuracy, not itself. Cause each move has its own stats. So your "where do I see a pokemon's accuracy stat" has the answer "its listed under its moves stats". Now yes, it would be nice if boosting your accuracy would change that stat in a way you can see it when you go to select that move, but that's a future thing that the games may later add.

[Bartmanhomer]

Pokemon don't have those stats. MOVES have Accuracy, and all a Pokemon changing those "stats" is just modifying the MOVE'S Accuracy. So raising its own accuracy makes its move's accuracy go up, but what that number is is based on the move. And raising evasion is just lowering the MOVE-that-is-targeting-them's evasion. If you want to see those numbers, check what the numbers are on the move. Every move has 3 sets of numbers connected with them, at minimum. Power, Accuracy, and Power Points. So Fire Blast has Power 110, Accuracy 85, and Power Points 5/5. So that means unless you boost Acc or Evasion, in theory a Fire Blast will hit 85% of the time. But when a pokemon boosts its Accuracy, its modifying its MOVE's accuracy, not itself. Cause each move has its own stats. So your "where do I see a pokemon's accuracy stat" has the answer "its listed under its moves stats". Now yes, it would be nice if boosting your accuracy would change that stat in a way you can see it when you go to select that move, but that's a future thing that the games may later add.

I see. Thank you for explaining it to me.

[Rater202]

I imagine a purple and yellow dragon thing that preys on sheep pokemon. That way lies lawsuits though.

Just invert the colors and shift them: Make it gold and mauve.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

You know, I never realized just how well this theme-team synergizes. I don't think I ever made a team with that good a distribution of weaknesses and resistances on purpose. That's the power of a water/grass/fire core I guess.



They even have a good diversity in roles between them, and it even works relatively well trying to base their moves/items/roles on their character traits.

Spoiler: One option for specifics

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Leonardo (Wartortle) @ Shell Bell
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 128 Atk / 128 SpA / 252 Spe
- Surf
- Aqua Jet
- Ice Punch
- Brick Break

Donatello (Grotle) @ Zoom Lens
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Atk / 128 Def
- Leech Seed
- Body Slam
- Iron Tail
- Synthesis

Raphael (Torkoal) @ Life Orb
Ability: White Smoke
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpA
- Overheat
- Superpower
- Double-Edge
- Explosion

Michaelangelo (Shuckle) @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
- Knock Off
- Encore
- Infestation
- Toxic

Splinter (Raticate) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Guts
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Sucker Punch
- Facade
- Rock Smash
- U-turn

(In gen8 Wartortle can have Shell Smash, which is too perfect, but some of the other mon haven't been released for gen8 (yet?).)

(Raticate Splinter probably also kind of works as a supportive HM user for the group.)

I may have to do a run as April O'Neil now.

Spoiler: Choosing Shuckle over Tirtouga/Carracosta

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Okay, so Shuckle is not really a turtle. But it looks like one. Tirtouga/Carracosta do not have a middle stage, making whichever one you pick look the least like a teenager. They also have a type overlap with both Wartortle and Shuckle, losing us some of that sweet synergy. Tirtouga would also be easily the weakest Pokémon on the team. Carracosta would in terms of total base stats still be a little weaker then Shuckle, but Shuckle is such an overspecialized creature that in practice it fits the power level of the team better than Carracosta does. Shuckle also kind of works for Mikey's personality as a mon that just keeps hopping around its opponent without going down while annoying it. Plus it gets not one but two fitting abilities in Contrary and Gluttony. Color scheme wise you could argue for replacing Grotle with Tirtouga/Carracosta as Donatello, but that just gives you double type overlap. If only Grotle got Wood Hammer, then I'd have a definitive argument for making it the definitive best Donatello.

[boj0]

As someone who has ran a TMNT themed team before, I feel like you're sleeping on Tirtouga, Shell Smash more than makes up for low stats when used with a focus sash/white herb/eviolite.
Alternatively, Bisharp for Shredder or Golurk for Krang are solid options.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

As someone who has ran a TMNT themed team before,

What kind of run/thing did you do with that? Who was what? And how did it go?