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  1. - Top - End - #181
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    AvatarVecna's Avatar

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    Default Re: Final Fantasy Guild Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Helgraf View Post
    So it was a bluff.

    Nice playing with you, town.
    Ain't bluffing, and that's why my vote's still where it is. Doubt me all you want but you'll see when I die by my own hand.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Xumtiil View Post
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  2. - Top - End - #182
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    ElfRogueGirl

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    Default Re: Final Fantasy Guild Mafia

    Eh... I believe Helgraf is probably* the scholar, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're not a wolf. The scholar claim at least explains why they trusted Xi, and maybe even why they were so paranoid about Cao, since it makes sense for an important role like that to be more paranoid. But it doesn't explain away my main reason for suspecting Helgraf, which is that their reasons for voting seem to be focused a lot on getting a vote in and not dying, and less so on providing analysis and wolf-hunting.
    OTOH, they did provide some analysis about Kinro after being prodded, and it would be pretty bad for town if we mislynched a claimed scholar. But then again, eventually we'll have to look at lynching some of the more powerful roles - if those roles happen to be wolves we can hardly let them skate by forever. Is that "eventually" D2? Maybe not.
    Thinking I'll switch my vote back to Valmark.

    *It seems unlikely for a wolf to fake-claim in this game when they can safely claim their real roles, but *maybe* a wolf in this situation might fake-claim scholar in the hopes that the real scholar isn't on to counterclaim until later so they can survive another night? Although I doubt it since in this case there's two more people (AV and Cao) who might be able to counterclaim, and it's super unlikely they would all be away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinro View Post
    Hmm confirming White Mage would be nice, but I think we might as well let them swim a bit longer. If they get wolfed, that immediately confirms the white mage. If not, we can still lynch them in a day or two.

    Switching to the non-posting Unavenger.
    Not sure what you mean by "if they get wolfed" - do you mean night-killed? If who gets night-killed? How does a successful NK confirm Xi?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, yeah, I'm still awake an hour after I planned to go to bed. What else is new.
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  3. - Top - End - #183
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy Guild Mafia

    TBH I'm not even really sure how to respond to that post other than rolling my eyes. I'm already dedicated to dying for the good of the network, so these are my last few hours to share my thoughts on various players before I'm no longer allowed to play the game. Was I supposed to shut up and keep them to myself? lol (this is about Helgraf's post not Elenna's)
    Last edited by AvatarVecna; 2020-09-13 at 12:44 AM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Xumtiil View Post
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  4. - Top - End - #184
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    Helgraf's Avatar

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    Thumbs down Re: Final Fantasy Guild Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Ain't bluffing, and that's why my vote's still where it is. Doubt me all you want but you'll see when I die by my own hand.
    Except the lynch at time of posting was 7 votes me 3 you, so you aren't going down tonight unless more people shift votes in the next 6 hours. And if you didn't get the lynch, I fully intended to scry you to confirm your status as traitor or not. At which point we could have networked up and given the village a verified trust of you, How I would scry if you did get yourself lynched was going to depend on what you revealed as.

    But now, even assuming you pull this off and get lynched today by getting enough people to flip from me to you, I'm basically dead scholar walking as the wolves don't need anyone finding them even faster - or speeding up the process of trust forming.

    So you can go cry me a river.
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  5. - Top - End - #185
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy Guild Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Helgraf View Post
    Except the lynch at time of posting was 7 votes me 3 you, so you aren't going down tonight unless more people shift votes in the next 6 hours. And if you didn't get the lynch, I fully intended to scry you to confirm your status as traitor or not. At which point we could have networked up and given the village a verified trust of you, How I would scry if you did get yourself lynched was going to depend on what you revealed as.

    But now, even assuming you pull this off and get lynched today by getting enough people to flip from me to you, I'm basically dead scholar walking as the wolves don't need anyone finding them even faster - or speeding up the process of trust forming.

    So you can go cry me a river.
    Theres two baners and a paladin still in play, and it's literally impossible they're all scum. Publicly claiming doesn't do anything to actually prove you innocent, and I'm already on the record as saying only the Ninja and maybe Black Mage should've publicly claimed today.

    It's not my fault your method of taking a target off your head was to put an even bigger target on your own head in a way that doesn'tnactually remove the first target - not that ot even matters since there's no way you're dying tonight with all those killblockers in play. It's also not my fault that a probable-wolf networking with people is more trusted than a soon-to be confirmed seer. And it's not my fault that even though I've handed the keys to victory to the actual locktown players for them to sort out in the coming days, I've still got to put my own head on the chopping block for people to even consider trusting the network.

    Consider your river cried.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Xumtiil View Post
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  6. - Top - End - #186
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy Guild Mafia

    Either your plan to sacrifice yourself is a great idea for the village, or it's a great way to make you look good on a night when your martyrdom is a sham because you're not going to be the victim.

    And there was no way in hell I was selling out my role until I'd either confirmed you or you confirmed yourself by actually getting lynched, at which point, I'd have claimed to Cao (unless you were lynched and turned up a wolf - then I'd scry Cao tonight to make sure he wasn't a wolf. If he was not, then I reveal to him to network for town. Obviously if you died a wolf and he scried as one, I'd have kept scrying and kept in communication with X to build a slower, safer network)>

    But because 7 people (before the most recent switch off of Elenna to Venmark, which also (by itself) doesn't take my neck out of the noose) were still on me when we passed midnight eastern time and I couldn't count on enough people being awake *before 8 am eastern time*, I had to choose - to die anonymously and have the village lose their scholar - or reveal my role and at least make it clear *why* I wasn't willing to commit earlier, even though it paints a wolf bullseye square on my chest - assuming the lynch doesn't just save them the trouble, of course.

    And frankly, with Cao having voted against me and not having changed their vote in the several hours since, and only more people piling on, I'm just assuming I'm basically dead in ... 5.5 hours at this point.

    So, I repeat. Nice playing with you, town.

    If by some chance I'm not lynched when I wake up tomorrow, well, I'll be incredibly surprised.

    So yes, village. Lynch Avatar - if he turns out village, then everything he's handed over to Cao is valid and we can hyperspeed the network. Or leave the lynch as it is, kiss your Scholar goodbye, and when the wolves don't kill AV, you;'ll get to spend another lynch trying to confirm if he's solid - giving the wolves another nightkill in the process.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Theres two baners and a paladin still in play, and it's literally impossible they're all scum. Publicly claiming doesn't do anything to actually prove you innocent, and I'm already on the record as saying only the Ninja and maybe Black Mage should've publicly claimed today.

    It's not my fault your method of taking a target off your head was to put an even bigger target on your own head in a way that doesn'tnactually remove the first target - not that ot even matters since there's no way you're dying tonight with all those killblockers in play. It's also not my fault that a probable-wolf networking with people is more trusted than a soon-to be confirmed seer. And it's not my fault that even though I've handed the keys to victory to the actual locktown players for them to sort out in the coming days, I've still got to put my own head on the chopping block for people to even consider trusting the network.

    Consider your river cried.
    You conveniently forget that if neither one of us is lynched tonight, I can simply scry you and confirm you're legit without the need for you to put your head on that block. The biggest advantage of your self-martyring tonight is basically that the same info goes to town and a different target can be scried - accelerating the networking by one notch. Of course, this still requires the votes to shift between now and 5h20m from now when the phase ends at 8 am - which requires a lot more of the players than just you and I to be awake and paying attenton before then.

    But since you appear to be sold on the narrative that I'm a wolf-scholar, I guess that option simply isn't on the table, now is it?
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  7. - Top - End - #187
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy Guild Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Not sure what you mean by "if they get wolfed" - do you mean night-killed? If who gets night-killed? How does a successful NK confirm Xi?
    If wolves kill Scholar, Scholar is Guild. Scholar already said White Mage is Guild. Unless Guild Scholar is lying for some bizarre reason, Guild Scholar -> Guild White Mage.

  8. - Top - End - #188
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy Guild Mafia

    I'll move my vote to AvatarVecna. If she is bent on dying then sure, better to hammer trust to home for those who are in the town core.

    I'm also leery of Elenna- she moved the vote from me because Helgraf seemed suspicious and a vote on me was ineffectual, then put the vote back on me still thinking it serves nobody. That seems to be a Traitor pretending to be doing Guild job.

  9. - Top - End - #189
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy Guild Mafia

    Just to clarify, I didn't see it in the opening post but I want to make sure that if I gave an answer I stick to it, did I express what happens at a tie?

  10. - Top - End - #190
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy Guild Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by gac3 View Post
    Just to clarify, I didn't see it in the opening post but I want to make sure that if I gave an answer I stick to it, did I express what happens at a tie?
    I don't recall any ruling, and thinking about it that's a pretty good question.

  11. - Top - End - #191
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy Guild Mafia

    If I haven't said then I'm going with picked randomly out of the tied individuals.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Unless told otherwise or somethinn changes between the time I type this and actually post it, know that I rolled a die to settle the following tie.

    Day 2 Ends

    Vote counts:
    Helgraf: 4/3
    Avatar Vecna: 4/3
    Unavenger: 1/3
    Valmark: 1/3

    Avatar Vecna has died. They were the Guild Hunter.

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    Hunter: You are skilled at tracking and hunting. Each night choose a player to track and learn who they target that night.


    Night 2 begins. You have 24 hours.

    Also know that as long as the necromancer is in play, I will not be making a dead chat. Once they are gone, I will though for anyone who wants one.

  12. - Top - End - #192
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy Guild Mafia

    Good. Now we know. Losing Hunter does suck, not gonna lie, especially once you have a good data set, you can use the role to try and get a feel for who is doing what - and in a game where everyone is a powerrole, it's *less* shooting in the dark. You're very likely to learn something unless your target chooses not to exercise their ability.

    I'm going to try and get some more data. If someone does bane me, excellent. If not, well, understandable, and we'll see if the wolves feel I need to be rid of immediately.
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  13. - Top - End - #193
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy Guild Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    JeenLeen has publicly and privately pushed me to do a mass-reveal of my information at separate points, and various posts by them (again, privately and publicly) seem to be trying to get a feel for how I'm feeling on things in ways that make me a bit suspicious. Last night, when I attempted to use my power on JeenLeen, I was unable to do so - which revealed to me that JeenLeen was the Freelancer copying the Dragoon.

    Despite being online at the time, there was a significant delay in JeenLeen responding to my "I know what you did last night" remark, and it was only after I publicly mentioned I'd identified the Freelancer that JeenLeen talked with me again. A good deal of the digging for info has been since then. It is, admittedly, still kinda weak justification for a vote, but if we're trusting Helgraf to be a town seer instead of a wolf seer, that's the place I'd put votes next. Mind you, I'm not moving my vote currently. I might if it looks like a JeenLeen wagon is happening, or maybe a Xihirli wagon, but beyond that I'm fine where I am.
    I've only got a couple minutes to be online, but I just want to note I don't think I've done as AV said. I just respect her opinion on things: if she's Town, it's good advice; if she's wolf, sometimes I can figure out she's wolf from getting her opinion. I'll publicly post my chat with AV later this Night or at start of D3. Depends on some coordination with Cao; there's something I said to him I also said to AV, and I don't want that shared publicly unless he thinks it's a good idea.

    As for AV's statement about timing, I'm often shuffling this between kids and work, so I might read one thing, then wait a while to respond to something else because something came up. I don't recall the lag AV mentions, but I believe it as a probable thing. I also am shuffling a couple PbP games.
    On that note, break time is over and back to kids. Hope to respond more fully later tonight, perhaps iwth intel-share if Cao thinks it's a good idea.

  14. - Top - End - #194
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    ElfRogueGirl

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    Default Re: Final Fantasy Guild Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinro View Post
    If wolves kill Scholar, Scholar is Guild. Scholar already said White Mage is Guild. Unless Guild Scholar is lying for some bizarre reason, Guild Scholar -> Guild White Mage.
    Oh, you mean a NK on Helgraf. Yeah, that makes sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valmark View Post
    I'll move my vote to AvatarVecna. If she is bent on dying then sure, better to hammer trust to home for those who are in the town core.

    I'm also leery of Elenna- she moved the vote from me because Helgraf seemed suspicious and a vote on me was ineffectual, then put the vote back on me still thinking it serves nobody. That seems to be a Traitor pretending to be doing Guild job.
    I didn't (and still don't) think an AV lynch would be helpful. I would have preferred a Helgraf lynch, since Helgraf felt more wolfy to me. So that left my choices as "put a second vote on Unavenger, or try to start a CFD to Valmark". Based on the previous discussion, I got the impression a wagon on you was more likely than a wagon on Unavenger. Apparently I should have just left my vote where it was...
    Last edited by Elenna; 2020-09-13 at 01:10 PM.
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  15. - Top - End - #195
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy Guild Mafia

    For public digestion
    Voting record, including how many votes someone held when they got a vote, and when their votes were decreased by a changed vote. Also a column for how many times (if any) people changed their vote in a day. If I've missed any votes, please tell me.

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  16. - Top - End - #196
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy Guild Mafia

    Follow-up post to note that I'm keeping my thread with AV private at least until Day breaks. Though I did share it with Cao.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh, and might as well publicly claim Freelancer. Cao knows my current role power.

    To more fully answer AV's question about timing: I honestly don't remember all the factors. However, I'm sure part of the delay was that I didn't trust AV 100% and was taking time to decide much to say. I figured she would assume the Freelancer would take the Dragoon power and jump, since there's no good reason not to N1. So I wasn't sure if she was bluffing or not; for all I knew, she told everyone who hadn't claimed to her that she knew what they did, in hopes they'd commit to a claim, or to ferret out who the Freelancer was. I told her as much.
    "Now, what I really want to know is: do you REALLY know I'm the Freelancer (now Dragoon), were you just suspecting it but not certain, or is this a wild guess to get someone to claim Freelancer?" (post 20 in the QT that Cao has and I plan to reveal when Day breaks)

    Also, looking back over my QT with her, I think the only time I asked her if she had a claim was for Ninja. Which, if I were a wolf, I'd already know, so I don't see how me asking that makes me look wolfish.

    And to anyone who is thinking "look at all this self-defense; how wolfy": I get that, but also this is my 'break time' before bed, so I feel inclined to overanalyze, and I don't have much to write about but my own stuff. And I don't want the Black Mage wasting their kill on me. I'm hoping I got something worked out with Cao such that, if the wolves don't get me tonight, he'll have reason to trust me as Town.

  17. - Top - End - #197
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy Guild Mafia

    Also just wanna make a note - if everyone could confirm their actions/let me know what they saw/have anything to pass along just use my private message with you. We should have a clear picture of night actions and we'll have info to vote on.

  18. - Top - End - #198
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy Guild Mafia

    Running a few minutes behind.

    - - - Updated - - -

    End of Night 2

    Two bodies are found in the morning. Caiominhin the Cape us found dead in their room. They were the Guild Ninja.

    Valmark was found frozen in the graveyard. They were the Guild Necromancer.


    Begin Day 3

  19. - Top - End - #199
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy Guild Mafia

    That's unfortunate, but I assume Cao handed off his network to the Black Mage or someone else he trusts, so it shouldn't really hurt the Town to lose him at this point.

    Last night, I was the Dragoon power. Cao and I agreed about him telling those less-trusted that I was the Hunter, in hopes the wolves might take the bait and try to NK me, thus wasting their kill. Obviously, it didn't work, but FYI in case you targeted me and it didn't work.
    Here's my QTs with Cao and AV:
    https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/efYKJNkpZj4g
    https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/MgVTMF8yNCBs

    As for who to suspect today...
    NOTE: I don't know who the Black Mage is, so if I say something bad about them, ignore it.
    The Outsider still confirmed town via going for quiet players.
    Kinro really seems Town.
    I'm still suspicious that Helgraf could be wolf!seer and playing us. Somewhat wary of Xihirli, but I'd rather see how Helgraf flips and use that to know if we can trust their insights.
    For the rest, no strong reads either way. But here's my thoughts, to be taken with little value.
    • I know I had some suspicions on Valmark or Apogee. I don't have a strong Town read on Apogee, but no strong suspicion either.
    • No strong read on Elenna or Unavenger. Though Unavenger being so quiet makes me uncertain. Regarding Unavenger, I'll trust the opinion of those in the network (who know if Unavenger's networked or not).


    I know I'm not confirmed Town by any means, but here's hoping my actions keep y'all from wasting the lynch on me today.
    Last edited by JeenLeen; 2020-09-14 at 11:55 AM.

  20. - Top - End - #200
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    Flumph

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    Default Re: Final Fantasy Guild Mafia

    Hmm. I'm a bit suspicious of you, JeenLeen. Partially because your suggested plan left Cao completely unprotected, only for them to get murdered by the wolves.
    On another note, I happen to be privy to the plans and QTs of the night. So, I have a question to ask: Apogee1, did you see who murdered Caominh?
    I can see it from the outside.
    And I know you're on the inside... lookin' out.


  21. - Top - End - #201
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy Guild Mafia

    I'm inclined to agree. I proposed Baning Cao last night, but received no response, and the plan Cao contacted me with was continuing to heal Kinro. If someone suggested to Cao that he shouldn't be baned, that someone becomes pretty suspect to me.
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  22. - Top - End - #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Outsider View Post
    Hmm. I'm a bit suspicious of you, JeenLeen. Partially because your suggested plan left Cao completely unprotected, only for them to get murdered by the wolves.
    On another note, I happen to be privy to the plans and QTs of the night. So, I have a question to ask: Apogee1, did you see who murdered Caominh?
    Quote Originally Posted by Xihirli View Post
    I'm inclined to agree. I proposed Baning Cao last night, but received no response, and the plan Cao contacted me with was continuing to heal Kinro. If someone suggested to Cao that he shouldn't be baned, that someone becomes pretty suspect to me.
    If Apogee says I am the killer, then I flip Town, just keep in mind that this gives a strong chance of Apogee and maybe Helgraf as the wolves.
    That said, I understand y'all's suspicions and I guess it would make the most sense for me to die to verify stuff than one of them.

  23. - Top - End - #203
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy Guild Mafia

    Yeah, it's definitely sketchy that JeenLeen told Cao not to protect himself and then Cao died. OTOH I wouldn't expect a wolf to so easily reveal that they were responsible for the NK target not being protected, but maybe wolf!JeenLeen knew that someone would inherit the QT and find out so they're trying to make people think they're innocent by being open about it?

    (Also, this may or may not be relevant, but I guess Cao didn't exactly go with JeenLeen's plan anyways, since they asked Xi to bane Kinro)

    I'm kinda wondering who else might have known Cao wasn't protected (Black Mage, feel free to post anything you want me to know in my QT with Cao, hopefully you have it). But we know Jeen knew about it, and I haven't seen any reason to be particularly trusting of them. So while waiting on an answer from the Black Mage (or an answer from Apogee? I take it Apogee's the Beast Master?) I'm fine with voting JeenLeen.
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  24. - Top - End - #204
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy Guild Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    If Apogee says I am the killer, then I flip Town, just keep in mind that this gives a strong chance of Apogee and maybe Helgraf as the wolves.
    That said, I understand y'all's suspicions and I guess it would make the most sense for me to die to verify stuff than one of them.
    Town points. Not enough, though. JeenLeen's my vote unless something pops up.
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  25. - Top - End - #205
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy Guild Mafia

    Instinct has paid off. My last night's scry has revealed Elenna is a Traitor.
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  26. - Top - End - #206
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy Guild Mafia

    Hardclaim Watcher (Beastmaster)

    JeenLeen was the only person but me to visit Cao last night

  27. - Top - End - #207
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    Default Re: Final Fantasy Guild Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Helgraf View Post
    Instinct has paid off. My last night's scry has revealed Elenna is a Traitor.
    As a competing wolf-wagon, I'll go with Elenna.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Apogee1 View Post
    Hardclaim Watcher (Beastmaster)

    JeenLeen was the only person but me to visit Cao last night
    Well, I already commented about that claim, so nothing really to add. I'm sure if I'm not lynched today, the Black Mage will finish it tonight.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Actually, not thinking straight.
    I know Apogee is lying about me, so he must be a wolf. Can't be certain on Elenna or Helgraf.
    Hence Apogee1.

    I think there's enough Town that the wolves can't win, especially with two baners active and the Black Mage to help speed up deaths.
    If JeenLeen lynches and flips town, you know to kill Apogee.
    If Apogee lynches and flips town, you know to kill JeenLeen.
    If Elenna lynches and flips town, you know to kill Helgraf.
    If Helgraf lynches and flips town, you know to kill Elenna.
    So today's lynch and tonight's Mage kill should settle things, then game ends by the next Night. Assuming 3 wolves to start.
    Last edited by JeenLeen; 2020-09-14 at 12:08 PM.

  28. - Top - End - #208
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    ElfRogueGirl

    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Ithilien
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Final Fantasy Guild Mafia

    Well I guess Helgraf is a wolf then...

    (also one of JeenLeen and Apogee is a wolf but I'm only mostly sure it's Jeen while I'm 100% sure Helgraf is lying about me. I'll switch to Jeen closer to EOD if it's between me and Jeen.)
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  29. - Top - End - #209
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Xihirli's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Behind you. RIGHT NOW.
    Gender
    Male2Female

    Default Re: Final Fantasy Guild Mafia

    Yeah, FoS Elenna. That's a wolf play. Putting yourself out there to take down one villager.

    JeenLeen and Elenna are the wolves here. I don't have a preference.
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  30. - Top - End - #210
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Final Fantasy Guild Mafia

    So

    JeenLeen is a wolf

    There is a wolf between Helgraf and Elenna (probably Elenna but wouldn't be incredibly surprised either way)

    That's three down

    If there is a fourth I'll think we get there easily after blasting through these CCs

    Do people want me to explain more about why Jeen is just a wolf? Or have you all gotten there mostly?

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