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  1. - Top - End - #271
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: OOTS #1214 - The Discussion Thread

    There have been two threads on how Familicide works where Rich himself stepped in and tried to put it in cut and dry terms to stop people debating about it.

    To keep it simple:

    First Wave: Anyone who shares blood with the original target is dead. No exceptions, no finagling. If you shared a common ancestor with the original target ten generations back you're still dead.

    Second Wave: Anyone who has a direct living link to one of the creatures hit by the first wave is also dead. The main difference with the first wave is that this works more like a chain reaction, which means it can be stopped by a missing link (more specifically, someone who is already dead).

    Overall it's very likely that there's still quite a few dragons alive who aren't happy with what happened, either because they had no relation to the ABD and her blood at all or because they would've been part of the second wave if the link between them and the ABD hadn't died already.

    Most likely aside from the whole power tripping issue Vaarsuvius was a bit too focused on the fact that the ABD's motivation for revenge was based on family.

  2. - Top - End - #272
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: OOTS #1214 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    It has to go for longer than more than one wave and dead people don't break the spread either.

    The Draketooth clan was wiped out by Familicide because they were all descended from a black dragon - who Blackwing noted had been dead for years by the present time. And the children stolen away served as connections to the innocent people, who were also killed, and then their family lines were destroyed as well. Rich did mention that if it'd been cast in our world it might have wiped out the entire human race.
    It is described as two waves, but is effectively three.

    Step 1 kills everyone related by blood to the original target. Step 2 kills everyone descended from still-living ancestors of people killed in Step 1. Which means it is more effectively described as Step 2, kill all living direct ancestors of people killed in Step 1, and Step 3, kill all living descendants of people killed in Step 2.

    The son's uncle may be a blood relative, and died; or he may be an in-law, and did not. Or he may be both a blood relative and an in-law, and died.
    Last edited by Lethologica; 2020-09-21 at 02:07 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #273
    Troll in the Playground
     
    danielxcutter's Avatar

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    Default Re: OOTS #1214 - The Discussion Thread

    So does that mean the Draketooth clan got nuked in step 1 or 2, then? I'm still a bit confused.
    Cool elan (no not that kind) Illithid Slayer by linkele.


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  4. - Top - End - #274
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: OOTS #1214 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    So does that mean the Draketooth clan got nuked in step 1 or 2, then? I'm still a bit confused.
    The Draketooth clan could have been nuked in step 1 if the Draketooth dragon was related to ABD by blood, in which case a lot of humans outside of the Draketooth clan also died.

    Or, perhaps e.g. ABD's nephew has grandparents on the other side of the family from ABD, and the Draketooth dragon was descended from them. Then the Draketooth clan would have been nuked in Step 3.

  5. - Top - End - #275
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    danielxcutter's Avatar

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    Default Re: OOTS #1214 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Lethologica View Post
    The Draketooth clan could have been nuked in step 1 if the Draketooth dragon was related to ABD by blood, in which case a lot of humans outside of the Draketooth clan also died.

    Or, perhaps e.g. ABD's nephew has grandparents on the other side of the family from ABD, and the Draketooth dragon was descended from them. Then the Draketooth clan would have been nuked in Step 3.
    It wouldn't have killed Penelope if the Draketooths got a Total Family Kill on step 3, because the descending part would have stopped at her daughter.
    Cool elan (no not that kind) Illithid Slayer by linkele.


    Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Archive Of Our Own FanFiction.net DeviantArt
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  6. - Top - End - #276
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: OOTS #1214 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    It wouldn't have killed Penelope if the Draketooths got a Total Family Kill on step 3, because the descending part would have stopped at her daughter.
    Ah, I forgot about her. Step 1, then.

  7. - Top - End - #277
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    danielxcutter's Avatar

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    Default Re: OOTS #1214 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Lethologica View Post
    Ah, I forgot about her. Step 1, then.
    I don't think it's too far-fetched that the progenitor dragon was a cousin or something. It's a bit of a coincidence, but at the least it's still V's fault for not thinking about the possible fallout regarding other species. Which they acknowledged.
    Cool elan (no not that kind) Illithid Slayer by linkele.


    Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Archive Of Our Own FanFiction.net DeviantArt
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  8. - Top - End - #278
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    NihhusHuotAliro's Avatar

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    Default Re: OOTS #1214 - The Discussion Thread

    Spoiler: My Thoughts On Familicide
    Show
    The Giant thinks that people read his stuff for the characters, so he doesn't really care about the fussy details and patterns of how Familicide works outside of how it serves the story he wants to tell.

    Familicide, as presented in the comic (not including out-of-comic authorial fiat), is fascinating and can be interpreted in a lot of ways (honestly, it's probably the most interesting idea in OOTS).

    Given that Rich Burlew's posts on the subject were primarily made to get people to stop talking about Familicide and start talking about things he actually considers relevant to his work, I don't find his explanations particularly interesting or important (so, though focusing on the setting rather than the characters may be the "wrong" way to enjoy his story, I say that authorial fiat is no reason to end a perfectly good discussion on how stuff works as-presented-in-comic).

    With that said, my personal theory was that (step 1) the spell went up the genealogy line to the first ancestors (created directly by the gods) of the victim, and then went down to all descendants of said ancestors, killing anybody who shared any ancestry with the victim ("any living creature that directly shares your bloodline is dead."). Then (step 2), it did step 1 again to all those new victims ("Every living creature that is directly related to any of those creatures is also dead"). Then (step 3), it kept doing steps 1 and 2 until it ran out of living things to kill ("Anyone who could possibly make a claim to be part of your family is gone now").

    The reason why not everything is dead is that the planet was created with a large enough population, and is new enough (only about a thousand years old), that there are still separate genealogical "forests" (think of an aspen forest, connected at the roots) which share no ancestral relation with one another.

    Casting Familicide on anybody from any branch in a "forest" produces the same result as if you cast it on anybody else in the same "forest", making Familicide analogous but not identical to "species-cide" (there are still Black Dragons).


    EDIT: Didn't notice the new comic, heh.
    Last edited by NihhusHuotAliro; 2020-09-21 at 04:01 PM.

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