OOTS #1214 - The Discussion Thread

[gatemansgc]

I don't think I have ever caught it when the comic has just uploaded. Neat! I wonder how they are going to get out of this.

all we know is they gotta get out of it somehow cause there's a TON more of the last book to go. years worth, even. it's not time for the final battle against xykon yet!

[Ionathus]

Oooooh, boy. Things have just gotten far worse.

So many cool moments here!

• Is this the first time we've seen disintegrate in the new art style? Durkon's Hi-Res Skeleton is fantastic!
• Xykon is a bit more unpredictable than Redcloak for how he'll respond, but all of the outcomes are worse. Very worried for the two of them now.
• As has already been said: Xykon seems to just effortlessly heighten the sense of doom by simply showing up.
• I wonder how concerned Redcloak is about these two blabbing anything about The Plan to Big X.

I don't think anybody believe they will.

I do! Go, go, Minrah and Durkon! /s

But for reals, I find it hard to picture a scenario where either of them die here. Durkon because he just spent a whole book dead, and Minrah because like she's gonna get iced to advance his dumb story. Similarly, capture seems like a strange story beat because I don't know if Redcloak would want Xykon to hear anything. I suppose it's possible, though!

My current money's on "both of them get spirited away by Orange and Green."

Or Oona eventually reported her showdown here,

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1035.html


and Redcloak's been on the watch for them to show up, ever since.

I'm pretty sure RC is referencing the paladin as just a member of The Order, the same way the MitD referenced him here. Redcloak's just assuming that the paladin is here because Durkon and Minrah have shown up -- not because he knew about them before 10 minutes ago.

EDIT: You ghosted me with a response to your own statement! Damn, you're good!

[hamishspence]

Oona does mention in the next strip that she tried to bring two humans home for dinner for the MITD, and RC's trancing right there. However, she doesn't elaborate, says she's embarrassed about the whole thing, and won't bring it up again.

Is that enough to clue RC in that O-Chul is there? Or is he still going off of what the MITD came up with in 901: https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0901.html ?

901 is probably a better bet, admittedly.

[Ghosty]

"We can heal on tha way ta- " where? The ravine? Are they going to try the old Cleric's Feather Fall ?

Damn, this is the final book alright, so tense!

My guess is using the stone head as material for forming a ramp or slide they can use to rapidly descend down the cliff face. Might've worked too, except for Flying Epic Sorcerer right there to nuke them.

[Hopeless]

Just a thought but could Durkon employ Word of Recall to send both of them to safety?

[KorvinStarmast]

But, if she was a prisoner and got talking to the MitD she might have some of her own forceful will rub off. Which is what the MitD is lacking atm to push it to self empowerment.

That's a neat idea in re why Minrah is in the story: to give MiTD a bit of a push. I like that. But I don't see "Death of Durkon, Version 3.5" as being where Giant is taking the story. (Been wrong before, though).

Just a thought but could Durkon employ Word of Recall to send both of them to safety?

In theory, yes.

Word of Recall

Target: You and touched objects or other willing creatures
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None or Will negates (harmless, object)
Spell Resistance: No or Yes (harmless, object)
Word of recall teleports you instantly back to your sanctuary when the word is uttered. You must designate the sanctuary when you prepare the spell, and it must be a very familiar place. The actual point of arrival is a designated area no larger than 10 feet by 10 feet. You can be transported any distance within a plane but cannot travel between planes. You can transport, in addition to yourself, any objects you carry, as long as their weight doesn’t exceed your maximum load. You may also bring one additional willing Medium or smaller creature (carrying gear or objects up to its maximum load) or its equivalent per three caster levels.

[Lord Raziere]

Minrah might die and tell Thor how it went with Redcloak, which might do a thing, but other than that, I'm not sure where this goes yet.

[hungrycrow]

Just a thought but could Durkon employ Word of Recall to send both of them to safety?

Maybe, but Durkon definitely would have used it already instead of trying to slowly escape on foot.

[pendell]

Just a thought but could Durkon employ Word of Recall to send both of them to safety?

If he could, why in the name of the abyss didn't he do it two rounds ago?

But for reals, I find it hard to picture a scenario where either of them die here. Durkon because he just spent a whole book dead, and Minrah because like she's gonna get iced to advance his dumb story. Similarly, capture seems like a strange story beat because I don't know if Redcloak would want Xykon to hear anything. I suppose it's possible, though!

The bare absolute minimum that has to happen is that one of them has to be captured while the other escapes. But if our heroes get away so lightly, I'm going to have to question whether I'm reading OOTS or Adam West's "Batman".


Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Crivens]

... Turn Undead?

[FlawedParadigm]

... Turn Undead?

Xykon may be as high as double Durkon's level.

I feel comfortable putting 50 zorkmids on this being a "no."

[Rogan]

... Turn Undead?

I doubt it. Getting turned into an undead was the plot of the last book, it won't repeat itself.

[Wildstag]

Not that it's at all likely to happen, but I'm hoping the rest of the party has already mobilized and are nearby in cloud form. Before Xykon showed up, they could remain hidden if Durkon had a chance of escape. With the lich present, they'd see the need to engage to save BOTH of their clerics, perhaps leading to another big panel of Roy screaming a name in a righteous fury while falling towards the foe.

Alas, that will not happen, and Durkon will probably be taken alive...

Although, I can see Belkar being the one to initiate to defend Durkon, what with the direction their friendship has gone.

[Malfarian]

New comic is up.

I NEEDED a new comic today ... but this one ... NO!!

OMG all clerics down, not good.

[RedScholarGypsy]

Another method of escape could be Plane Shift. Durkon could have prepared it as a means of removing an enemy efficiently, as seen by his ̶f̶a̶t̶h̶e̶r̶'̶s̶ ̶b̶r̶o̶t̶h̶e̶r̶'̶s̶ ̶n̶e̶p̶h̶e̶w̶'̶s̶ ̶c̶o̶u̶s̶i̶n̶'̶s̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶m̶e̶r̶ ̶r̶o̶o̶m̶m̶a̶t̶e̶ cousin's brother-in-law's niece's fiancee fate in the battle of the vote. But it'd work here to get out.

Also, he could try talking to Xykon. He's going to ask what's going on, because there's no rush for him, and he'll want to savor the distraction. Durkon could talk he's way out of this. If he's really offering TDO a seat, that eventually means being the fourth pantheon. And every pantheon needs a god of death, right?

[Fincher]

I don't think anybody believe they will.

Minrah rolls fifty natural 20's in a row and one shots Xykons, and his flying bones lodge themselves inside Redcloak. The power of so many natural 20's unleashes a wave of purple quiddity, and the rifts are sealed forevermore. Everyone can go home now.

I mean, that's what I believe will happen.

[pendell]

It won't happen for the reasons I mentioned before, but I would expect the most likely outcome would be to kill Durkon and keep Minrah prisoner, since Minrah speaks basic common and interrogating Durkon means enduring his unintelligible accent .

Actually, I'm really bugged by Durkon's accent. NO ONE except his mum in the Dwarvish lands talks like that. So where did she -- and he -- get it? Are they originally from somewhere else?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Hawk7915]

I've been reading this comic since 2005 and it still surprises me sometimes. I have no idea how they're going to get out of this one now.

[Particle_Man]

Maybe the individual pieces are indestructible!

A call back to the original "uncuttable" atomic theory from Ancient Greece!

Everything else aside, I don't think Durkon is going to see Xykon as being approachable after Redcloak has already turned him down.

I don't think Durkon has good choices here so maybe it is still the "least bad choice". It might even lead to a "let's you and him squabble" between Xykon and Redcloak while the Dwarves go back to their escape plan of running away at no more than 60' per round (30' if the bugs are still blinding Minrah).

Also, can we take Redcloak's comment to mean that he was aware of O-Chul's presence near Kraagor's Tomb, or simply that he's still expecting the paladin to show up eventually?

If nothing else Redcloak knows that O-chul is very persistent.

[hroþila]

Actually, I'm really bugged by Durkon's accent. NO ONE except his mum in the Dwarvish lands talks like that.

Nah, that's not true.

[Worldsong]

A call back to the original "uncuttable" atomic theory from Ancient Greece!

If we just keep destroying the statue eventually there'll be parts which can't be destroyed! And THOSE parts will hold the Rift!

I believe in the dream!

I don't think Durkon has good choices here so maybe it is still the "least bad choice". It might even lead to a "let's you and him squabble" between Xykon and Redcloak while the Dwarves go back to their escape plan of running away at no more than 60' per round (30' if the bugs are still blinding Minrah).

Even as a last hope it seems worse than fighting to the end. I mean it is possible that Durkon thinks it's worth a shot, but I'm doubtful.

Granted I'm less doubtful of this than of many things I've been doubtful about regarding this comic.

[Jay R]

Neither cleric has the slightest chance against Xykon , of course, ...

Roy beat Xykon in strip #115, when he was much lower level. Frodo, Sam and Gollum defeated Sauron. A single one-man speedster destroyed the death star. It's just not true that the weaker side has no chance.

Besides, they don't need to win. They merely need to escape.

... as Xykon might be one of the only people (maybe the only person) who can get Redcloak to co-operate with him ...

Given that what Durkon wants Redcloak to do involves messing up a plan Xykon's been working on for thirty years, I really don't see how he's likely to want to help.

[Yes, I know that Xykon's plan is impossible. But if Xykon learns that Redcloak's been lying to him, and planning to betray him, for decades, he's still not going to be too cooperative.]

Durkon perfectly illustrated what 'high wisdom, low intelligence" looks like by walking into Team Evil's camp with no exit strategy.

I think we should wait until he tries to escape before we conclude that he has no escape strategy.

I've been reading this comic since 2005 and it still surprises me sometimes. I have no idea how they're going to get out of this one now.

Exactly. Rich has surprised me any number of times, already, and I expect him to do so with the end of this encounter, too. We don't have to figure out what happens next. And previous experience shows that we aren't likely to guess correctly anyway.

I, for one, am very glad that nobody is good enough to spoil the comic by guessing what will happen in advance.

That's why I stopped guessing. Sit down, relax, and enjoy the view. Rich is driving.

[DreamCreator]

This is starting to look less then ideal for Durkon - but I guess if he is quick thinking he can see about putting real negotiations back on the table.

Also hurrah Xykon is back.

I find this theory plausible and creative.

Maybe Durkon can rapid speed inform Xykon intentionally (or unintentionally) that Redcloak has not been telling him (Xykon) the truth about his (Redcloak's) intentions for the gate.

[Shale]

I wonder how concerned Redcloak is about these two blabbing anything about The Plan to Big X.

I'm thinking that might be their best hope for escape. An innocent "Why are ye so determined to give ultimate power to a goblin god?" would take a lot of focus off the dwarves.

[Ruck]

If there any chance that the Xykon who just appeared is an illusion cast by Elan? Probably not...the comment Xykon made about the dwarf statute was a little too on the nose.

Seems very unlikely-- I'm generally not going to believe Rich is doing something like this that would solely be for the purpose of tricking us, the reader, as opposed to a character in the strip tricking another character.

Also, can we take Redcloak's comment to mean that he was aware of O-Chul's presence near Kraagor's Tomb, or simply that he's still expecting the paladin to show up eventually?

Or Oona eventually reported her showdown here,

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1035.html


and Redcloak's been on the watch for them to show up, ever since.

Or he's still expecting the paladin and the elf to be around here somewhere. (I see someone has already mentioned this.)

Nah, that's not true.

I do enjoy how we spend so much time with Durkon (and so relatively few with other dwarves) that it's easy to assume that his accent is standard for all dwarves, and then we get to Dwarven Lands and it turns out that, nah, theirs is still pretty specific / peculiar even there.

[Vessyra]

Durkon mentioned something about, "If we can get outta thar line o' sight, I can-" before being interrupted. Any ideas on what that is? Avoiding a dispel magic on wind walk seems like a possibility, but then Durkon would be saying, "We can (turn into mist)". Maybe he's hoping to hide somehow?
Regardless of the plan, their current position makes getting out of line of sight easier said than done.

[pendell]

Nah, that's not true.

Noted, thank you.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Shining Wrath]

One round too long, Durkon. Just one round too long.
But Redcloak wants to capture them alive. Can he talk sense into Xykon?
Can anyone possibly rescue them? This requires a real Deus Ex Machina if they get out of here alive and uncaptured.
Or a MitD rescue, although why he'd do that remains unclear.

[pendell]

On a related note, why do the villains bother interrogating high value captives? Kill them, create a free-willed undead from their remains, compel it to tell the truth, add the undead to the army.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Worldsong]

On a related note, why do the villains bother interrogating high value captives? Kill them, create a free-willed undead from their remains, compel it to tell the truth, add the undead to the army.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

I'd bet that Xykon just finds it more entertaining.

Redcloak... How often have we seen him actually do necromancy stuff? Maybe it just doesn't immediately occur to him.