OOTS #1214 - The Discussion Thread

[Jacky720]

Jacky, I think we could have been a little warmer in greeting our new particpant.

Yeah, that was harsh. Sorry. To Yuri-Os.

(Of course, your idea is still a possibility. {scrubbed})

(I still sound like a jerk with this, don't I...)

[Wowlock]

Fewer times have the villain of the story ever seemed so... impending doom-y

I mean, they are Impending Doom-y for themselves really. They cannot succeed with or without the Order's interference. If they somehow managed to beat the party, the watching Gods will decide ''well that failed. Blowing the world up it is.'' So Xykon and Redcloak, along with their goals are gone.

[Peelee]

First post here, may as well get my stupid ideas out while I lack a reputation.

Maybe it's

Spoiler

Show

MitD shapeshifted into Xykon.

This isn't relevant to anything, but I choose to believe you are a cereal based on a Red Alert 2 villain.

****. I apologize for violating the profanity rules, but that feels like the only reasonable response to this situation.

I should point out that if the filter catches them and you aren't overusing them, you're not breaking the profanity rules. Which makes me happy.

[MReav]

Did Redcloak forget Roy's name or is he just so used to using descriptors because Xykon is so pathologically incapable of remembering names (or at least, trolls people by pretending he's incapable of remembering names).

[Olinser]

Did Redcloak forget Roy's name or is he just so used to using descriptors because Xykon is so pathologically incapable of remembering names (or at least, trolls people by pretending he's incapable of remembering names).

He's currently talking to somebody that has absolutely no idea who 'Greenhilt' is, so 'the paladin and the one with the green sword' are pretty good descriptors to be on the lookout for.

[Kornaki]

He remembered greenhilt's name last time, but not what his plot was.

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0901.html

It would be a little surprising if he had forgotten his name, but it's also possible he never thought greenhilt was his actual name, just a nickname.

[danielxcutter]

...Maybe Durkon escapes but Minrah gets captured? The “talks with MitD” theory would be right then... I dunno even, I just hope this doesn’t screw things over too badly.

[Ionathus]

...Maybe Durkon escapes but Minrah gets captured? The “talks with MitD” theory would be right then... I dunno even, I just hope this doesn’t screw things over too badly.

I suppose Minrah could talk to the MitD, but it feels like that role still belongs to O-Chul. She'd kinda be stepping on his territory if she became the one to prompt MitD's heel-face turn. Especially since O-Chul is (hopefully!) nearby.

[Krakius]

I'd say . . . the rest of the Order arrives to bail out Durkon and Minrah, there's a big team battle between the Order of the Stick and Team Evil (before Team Evil inevitably turns on itself), they manage to escape somehow but the element of surprise is ruined, and Roy is pissed at Durkon.

[bunsen_h]

It was really nice knowing these dwarves. RIP from ??-1184.

Durkon: 1129-1184, 1184-1184, 1184-1184. If he dies again here, which I think unlikely.

I dont think he was lurking off panel. I think he was in the ravine and saw the head fall off the cliff.

Xykon's comment seems to imply that there was some reason why they hadn't knocked the head off the statue before.

I'm going to go with "Redcloak knows that doing so will trigger some effect which targets the last person who caused damage" and that Xykon's holding the hot potato, so to speak, because of whatever negative-energy thing he's doing.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Even if it is somehow his remains it's been explicitly mentioned a number of times the Snarl will destroy your soul. It did the same to Soon's wife. They were also high-level adventurers so if they were capable of bringing him back to life they would have done that.

He is dead. Permanently. There is no secret Kraagor Resurrection plot twist and speculating over whether the statue is his corpse and/or he's been secretly not dead is silly.

You are misinterpreting the post. The theory was that Kraagor's Gate was hidden in the statue instead of behind the doors and the tribute to Kraagor's belief in strength via combat.

[bunsen_h]

You are misinterpreting the post. The theory was that Kraagor's Gate was hidden in the statue instead of behind the doors and the tribute to Kraagor's belief in strength via combat.

I do recall seeing someone suggest that the statue might be Kraagor's petrified remains. Probably coming out of the idea that Kraagor's Gate was hidden in the statue, and the stuff about where Girard's Rift was hidden.

[P. G. Macer]

I know I’m late to the party, but OOOOHHHHHHHH SNAP! Out of the frying pan, into the fire.

[Lex]

I suppose Minrah could talk to the MitD, but it feels like that role still belongs to O-Chul. She'd kinda be stepping on his territory if she became the one to prompt MitD's heel-face turn. Especially since O-Chul is (hopefully!) nearby.

Agreed. Plus, the MitD aleeady saved the Order at Girard's gate and Redcloack might suspect he became too attached to the paladin, so he might prevent it to get in contact with another prisoner.

Personally I think at this point the best options is for the dwarves to be saved by the same group who captured O-Chul and Lien. This way, they'll be safe (?) without making their escape look too easy, and we'll have the paladins back in the story. I'd hate if the party remains split for long, though.

[Anitar]

I'd hate if the party remains split for long, though.

It's already been split for 10-11 pages now. How long is "long" in this context?

[Lex]

It's already been split for 10-11 pages now. How long is "long" in this context?

I don't have a specific number...a third or half of the book, maybe?

[Ace of Rogues]

I just have to say, regarding the "reveal to Xykon that Redcloak has a plan to double-cross him" theory, I'm pretty Xykon's response would be a resounding "Uh, durr!!!". The fact that he had Tsukiko research the ritual way back and then just disavowed her and quickly dropped the subject after Redcloak killed her suggests to me he's well aware that Redcloak's working an angle on him. What could be interesting though is if he then goes on a rant about how stupid Redcloak's being in the situation and how he's too much of a coward to actually turn on him which makes Redcloak take the offer after all just to spite him. It would make a great twist and provide a good reason for Redcloak to at least ostensibly join Our Heroes without just making a spontaneous Heel-Face-Turn. He's not turning against Xykon for any moral reason, or even the good of goblin-kind. No, he's just the dog finally biting back.

[Xlsfd]

That's not good at all. Durkon and Minrah might have been able to escape from Oona and Redcloak, but not a Level 21+ lich.

[CriticalFailure]

My thinking is that Xykon has had a plan to turn on Redcloak after the ritual and take the power of the snarl for himself for a very long time. I’m guessing Xykon is suspicious because he knows that Redcloak knows he wouldn’t want to share power, and this assumes Redcloak must have his own plan or angle. But he doesn’t know why Redcloak seems not to care.

[danielxcutter]

That's not good at all. Durkon and Minrah might have been able to escape from Oona and Redcloak, but not a Level 21+ lich.

According to his apparent feat selection, it is entirely possible and perhaps even the most likely scenario that Xykon has at least 26 levels in sorcerer, so... yeah.

My thinking is that Xykon has had a plan to turn on Redcloak after the ritual and take the power of the snarl for himself for a very long time. I’m guessing Xykon is suspicious because he knows that Redcloak knows he wouldn’t want to share power, and this assumes Redcloak must have his own plan or angle. But he doesn’t know why Redcloak seems not to care.

I personally read that as that he saw the statue head falling down the cliff, and flew up to see what was going on.

[Lemarc]

I just have to say, regarding the "reveal to Xykon that Redcloak has a plan to double-cross him" theory, I'm pretty Xykon's response would be a resounding "Uh, durr!!!". The fact that he had Tsukiko research the ritual way back and then just disavowed her and quickly dropped the subject after Redcloak killed her suggests to me he's well aware that Redcloak's working an angle on him. What could be interesting though is if he then goes on a rant about how stupid Redcloak's being in the situation and how he's too much of a coward to actually turn on him which makes Redcloak take the offer after all just to spite him. It would make a great twist and provide a good reason for Redcloak to at least ostensibly join Our Heroes without just making a spontaneous Heel-Face-Turn. He's not turning against Xykon for any moral reason, or even the good of goblin-kind. No, he's just the dog finally biting back.

Xykon would assume Redcloak is planning to betray him, that's standard practice for the 2IC of any evil organisation as he well knows. But Durkon knows that the Plan isn't what Xykon thinks it is, and Xykon might be slightly ticked off if he finds out he's spent thirty years on a project with no possible benefit to him whatsoever.

[LordSith]

Zhu li, do the thing!

Zhu Li, always a good joke.

THanks for the smile it brought.

[Ghosty]

First post here, may as well get my stupid ideas out while I lack a reputation.

Maybe it's

Spoiler

Show

MitD shapeshifted into Xykon.

Welcome to this part of The Playground. They usually don't greet newcomers with profanity.

Your post is making me wonder though: Just where is the MITD? Asleep? He's sociable, and has to have noticed that every other member of Team Evil is off doing something else. He hasn't enough curiosity to see what that is?

Moreover, Durkon's Hammer is shooting electricity and is delivering big enough blows to shatter stone. Is Minrah's voice amplified when her size was too? All of that isn't making enough noise to bring the village---and the MITD---out to see what's going on?

[RickDaily12]

Look, Durkon and Minrah don't have to escape if the author requires them not to.

But it's actually a little frustrating that every time Redcloak has casted a Disintegrate, even at long range, it always hits. Whereas Vaarsuvius has had so many misses, multiple ones at point blank range, that hir use of it is unreliable at best.

It's a powerful spell, and it's been portrayed to be a bit buggy- but only when used by protagonists.

[dancrilis]

Look, Durkon and Minrah don't have to escape if the author requires them not to.

But it's actually a little frustrating that every time Redcloak has casted a Disintegrate, even at long range, it always hits. Whereas Vaarsuvius has had so many misses, multiple ones at point blank range, that hir use of it is unreliable at best.

It's a powerful spell, and it's been portrayed to be a bit buggy- but only when used by protagonists.

Rays don't suffer from range penalties and in fairness to Vaarsuvius they have actually managed to disintegrate living/undead creatures with it - a feat that to memory still eludes Redcloak.

[RickDaily12]

I suppose a 17th Cleric does boast a better BAB than a 16th Wizard, but that's what, a difference of +4 and Dex difference? Definitively we only know that it's roughly a 20% hit improvement on a d20.

And yeah, Redcloak has failed to ash anyone (barring unread bonus strips I don't know about), but that's because he seems to target high Fortitude savers exclusively.

Vaarsuvius' list of victims include commoners and hurt young dragons (disintgration happens regardless of save at 0 HP)

Meh. A saved Disintegrate still does more damage than a missed one, which apparently only V seems to do.

[Arcane_Secrets]

Durkon: "Thor...I guess I'm sort of back a bit early."

[Particle_Man]

Xykon would assume Redcloak is planning to betray him, that's standard practice for the 2IC of any evil organisation as he well knows. But Durkon knows that the Plan isn't what Xykon thinks it is, and Xykon might be slightly ticked off if he finds out he's spent thirty years on a project with no possible benefit to him whatsoever.

2IC = ?

I am unfamiliar with that one.

Wait, Second In Command? Is that it?

[gerryq]

Given that she's not using webs all over the place I'm guessing this is early story Skitter.

I didn't get "fight them Skitter style" (the only Skitter that occured to me was a monster in an Android roguelike) until your response!

As for Xycon, Redcloak believes he is manipulable like all undead, but even Redcloak knows that Xycon is intelligent (when he chooses to be, and that is a choice you make every time) and unpredictable. Redcloak may be the person most unhappy that Xycon has shown up.

[Lemarc]

2IC = ?

I am unfamiliar with that one.

Wait, Second In Command? Is that it?

Yes, sorry, Second In Command. I was referencing

Spoiler: Start of Darkness

Show

Xykon's experience at helldeathdoomfire volcano, when his master promoted people saying they would inevitably betray him, and when Xykon talked with Ydranna and mentioned she should be plotting the Unholy Master's death, to which she replied she'd do it after lunch.