Orc version of Drow

[Tor the Fallen]

For my campaign, I need my orcs to be a little more badass, something with more oomph than +4 str.

So I was thinking of using the Drow as a sort of template to base the power level around.

The orcs will be a sort of Tartarian horde, approaching from the Inscrutable East. Except they're gonna ride dire wolves, and wage war at night.

+4 str, -2 cha
Darkvision to 120'
+2 racial bonus to ride checks
+1 to fort and will saves
Bonus feats: Mounted Combat, Instantaneous Rage, the one that lets you delay a spell effect for a round.
Rage 1/day (stacks/improves with barbarian rage)
Automatic proficiency with lance, composite long and short bows.
-4 penalty on charisma checks with other races
Light Sensitivity
Favored Class: barbarian

This isn't going to be a PC class, so I don't care about LA or potential PC abuse. Would you say their CR would be the same as a Drow's (=to NPC lvls, =PC lvls+1)?

edit
added some stuff, changed some stuff

[tainsouvra]

No spell resistance?

[Catch]

It's the spell resistance and net stat gain that gives Drow their LA. Increase the Con or Dex of your Orcs, maybe add SR and you'd be at the same power level.

[Tor the Fallen]

No spell resistance?

Gave it rage instead. Magic resistant orcs? Doesn't feel right.

Maybe give it that feat where they can rage when hit with spells, and the spell effect is delayed for a round?

It's the spell resistance and net stat gain that gives Drow their LA. Increase the Con or Dex of your Orcs, maybe add SR and you'd be at the same power level.

As per my OP, I don't care about LA. No characters will be playing this race.

[Catch]

As per my OP, I don't care about LA. No characters will be playing this race.

I was answering this question:

Would you say their CR would be the same as a Drow's?

Anyway, if you don't think SR fits the flavor, increase their stats. A Con bonus of +2 or +4 should make them sufficiently harder to kill.

[Overlard]

Gave it rage instead. Magic resistant orcs? Doesn't feel right.

Maybe give it that feat where they can rage when hit with spells, and the spell effect is delayed for a round?



As per my OP, I don't care about LA. No characters will be playing this race.

Spell resistance is better than rage. SR will give a higher CR.

[Fax Celestis]

Light Blindness in a surface-dwelling race makes no sense.

[Tor the Fallen]

Light Blindness in a surface-dwelling race makes no sense.

Mmm, good point. I'll bump that down to light sensitivity.

[Sornjss Lichdom]

i'd give them a +2 to con, and maybe a +2 to intimidate. and +2 to will saves for fear affect spells, you dont bully these guys easly I imaging.

[Behold_the_Void]

Drop the Int penalty to allow for some bastardly crafty tactics. Powerful build is also an option.

[Doresain]

For my campaign, I need my orcs to be a little more badass, something with more oomph than +4 str.

So I was thinking of using the Drow as a sort of template to base the power level around.

The orcs will be a sort of Tartarian horde, approaching from the Inscrutable East. Except they're gonna ride dire wolves, and wage war at night.

+4 str, -2 int, -2 wis, -2 cha
Darkvision to 120'
+2 racial bonus to ride checks
+1 to fort and will saves
Bonus feats: Mounted Combat, Instantaneous Rage, the one that lets you delay a spell effect for a round.
Rage 1/day (stacks/improves with barbarian rage)
Automatic proficiency with lance, composite long and short bows.
Light Sensitivity
Favored Class: barbarian

This isn't going to be a PC class, so I don't care about LA or potential PC abuse. Would you say their CR would be the same as a Drow's (=to NPC lvls, =PC lvls+1)?

edit
added some stuff, changed some stuff

why not use orogs? arent they pretty much a more powerful verison of an orc?

[Nowhere Girl]

I'd say they're at least as strong as drow in terms of relative power.

I mean, two bonus feats? Geesh! They're pre-chosen, but that still lets an orc start with more feats than even a human can.

Considering how much WOTC has done to gimp spell resistance, I'd say these are more powerful than drow.

[Dullyanna]

Tanarruks (Fiendish orcs) have a penalty to charisma (I'm not sure about the other mental stats), but they have SR, lots of strength, and the ability to control flames (At will, if I remember correctly). Orogs (Larger, but clumsier orcs) have a large bonus to strength,a penalty to dexterity, and fewer penalties to mental stats.

[Darkxarth]

With two bonus feats, a class feature, and save bonuses, I'd say:
CR = NPC levels
CR = PC levels +1

Interesting idea, hope it works well in practice.

[Kompera]

Maybe give it that feat where they can rage when hit with spells, and the spell effect is delayed for a round?

Frothing at the Mouth Rage (AFB, forgive the inaccurate Feat name) from PHBII?

IIRC: Allows a 1 round delay of effect against a spell or a wound, once per Rage use.

[Oeryn]

Maybe it's just me, but I'd think that using a lance would require a lot of steady concentration, and doesn't really fit in with the whole rage-based culture.

What about something like a specially-designed long-handled axe?

[spotmarkedx]

I'd lose the rage from the race template, but give it SR while in a rage, myself. Thus the shamans and the like have a potential vulnerability, but the warriors are crazy scary (read as: slightly more annoying if PCs make optimized characters) once in a rage as they shrug off spells like they are nothing. Or give it both, and let the orc wizards wonder if raging is worth it when faced with PC spellcasters ;)

[Tor the Fallen]

The two racial feats are there to show that these guys have been in the saddle since they were wee snotlings.

I think, just to make sure they're on the level of Drow, I'm going to drop the int and wis penalty.

I'd lose the rage from the race template, but give it SR while in a rage, myself. Thus the shamans and the like have a potential vulnerability, but the warriors are crazy scary (read as: slightly more annoying if PCs make optimized characters) once in a rage as they shrug off spells like they are nothing. Or give it both, and let the orc wizards wonder if raging is worth it when faced with PC spellcasters ;)

Wow, that's really great. Hmm, that may just nullify the wizard's offensive spells, and give the rogue and fighter a chance to do something.... Of course, these guys are going to be lethal, riding dire wolves with ride-by and spirited charge, while backed up by guys with strength rated comp. long bows.

It's cool, but too powerful. Maybe I'll have it as a feat their barbarians can pick up. I want to be able to throw more than one or two at the PCs at a time.

Maybe it's just me, but I'd think that using a lance would require a lot of steady concentration, and doesn't really fit in with the whole rage-based culture.

What about something like a specially-designed long-handled axe?

Lance is merely a weapon category. They'll look like anything I care to describe them as; but they'll use the lance stats. I was actually thinking of using something closer in appearance to a scimitar on a long stick, rather than the sort of medieval lance that one couches.

Lances can also be two handed and power attacked with, which makes even less sense, since they were meant to just be held in an arm while you kept the enemy lance off with a shield.

why not use orogs? arent they pretty much a more powerful verison of an orc?

Why not just shell out more money instead of using my (your) head? Because I'm a poor college student.

[Tor the Fallen]

For my campaign, I need my orcs to be a little more badass, something with more oomph than +4 str.

So I was thinking of using the Drow as a sort of template to base the power level around.

The orcs will be a sort of Tartarian horde, approaching from the Inscrutable East. Except they're gonna ride dire wolves, and wage war at night.

+4 str, -2 cha
Darkvision to 120'
+2 racial bonus to ride checks
+1 to fort and will saves
Bonus feats: Mounted Combat, Instantaneous Rage, the one that lets you delay a spell effect for a round.
Rage 1/day (stacks/improves with barbarian rage)
Automatic proficiency with lance, composite long and short bows.
-4 penalty on charisma checks with other races
Light Sensitivity
Favored Class: barbarian

This isn't going to be a PC class, so I don't care about LA or potential PC abuse. Would you say their CR would be the same as a Drow's (=to NPC lvls, =PC lvls+1)?

edit
added some stuff, changed some stuff

Ok, here's the final version. They're perfectly capable of coming up with good tactics, but they're propensity to burn everything, cannibalize their enemies, and cut down every man, woman and child as a matter of course has led to a wee bit of distrust amongst the other races.

How many of these on dire wolf mounts could I throw against a moderately optimized, well organized group of 4 (wizard, fighter, rogue, cleric)? If I added class levels?

[BardicDuelist]

Have you ever heard of Orogs? They are basically orcs in the underdark, and can be pretty tough.

[spotmarkedx]

Ok, here's the final version. They're perfectly capable of coming up with good tactics, but they're propensity to burn everything, cannibalize their enemies, and cut down every man, woman and child as a matter of course has led to a wee bit of distrust amongst the other races.

How many of these on dire wolf mounts could I throw against a moderately optimized, well organized group of 4 (wizard, fighter, rogue, cleric)? If I added class levels?

Looks pretty good. Can't answer your questions unless you have some idea of what level the party is at. I don't know that I'd call it, even with all those feats a +3LA class... I'd put it at +2 myself. I'm pretty bad at eyeballing these things though.

Have you ever heard of Orogs? They are basically orcs in the underdark, and can be pretty tough.

Already discussed and discarded.

[Tor the Fallen]

I'm thinking CR 1+PC levels, or 2+PC levels if played smart.

[vegetalss4]

Ok, here's the final version. They're perfectly capable of coming up with good tactics, but they're propensity to burn everything, cannibalize their enemies, and cut down every man, woman and child as a matter of course has led to a wee bit of distrust amongst the other races.

How many of these on dire wolf mounts could I throw against a moderately optimized, well organized group of 4 (wizard, fighter, rogue, cleric)? If I added class levels?

so because they burn everything , slauther whole families and eat thier dead foes, people are somehow less afraid of them than of standard farmer bob?
(less charisma means less intimidate too )

[Tor the Fallen]

so because they burn everything , slauther whole families and eat thier dead foes, people are somehow less afraid of them than of standard farmer bob?
(less charisma means less intimidate too )

Depends on the circumstance.

They're also from a far and distant land, and of a different race and culture. If an eskimo raised his eyebrows at you, would you know what it meant? What about if someone from India leaned their head to the left?

Commoners are going to be intimidated by the guy with a big sword and ugly face, regardless of the charisma.

[spotmarkedx]

I think the point is that -4 on charisma related skill checks means that (combined with the -2 cha) a standard orc is -5 intimidate. -1 For a first level, character maxed in intimidate. I'd change the -4 to all charisma to -4 diplomacy