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  1. - Top - End - #121
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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    I think the fight would look something like

    Implosion. Oh, you're immune (at least I speculate this is true)? Disintegrate.
    Last edited by Kornaki; 2020-10-27 at 08:59 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #122
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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Quote Originally Posted by Kornaki View Post
    I think the fight would look something like

    Implosion. Oh, you're immune (at least I speculate this is true)? Disintegrate.
    Reminds me of the greatest cleric battle of all time. I wonder if Redcloak vs. Kore would get equally impressive FX budget.
    In a war it doesn't matter who's right, only who's left.

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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Redcloak may at a higher level than the strongest adventurer in the Goblins universe right now, in all honesty. He'd be well able to make a new nation for goblins. Duv would be little more than a figurehead. Her power level can't compare.

    Kore is currently the highest we know about and he's become extraordinarily lackluster. Like, the last battle he lost was just kinda pathetic. At this point he can just go off and die in a corner. I'm not interested in the next rematch. Guy can't even beat a singular golem. I'm at the point where I don't see him as a viable threat anymore. I mean, sure, he killed Chief, and killing one of the main characters isn't nothing... but it was a 1 on 1 fight against a MUCH lower opponent, and you just kinda lose your menacing aura when you keep losing afterwards. It's absurd that such a big level disparity can be breached, tricks or not.

    His weaponry is especially terrible. It's a joke compared to what the mains got. I look at all the magical items that just litter the world, and what does Kore have? Just some nifty little innovations, in comparison. The axes don't appear to have any special properties. The shield gives some advantages but, in the end, it's just a tower shield, and the crossbows are low damage weapons that don't seem all that special, other than having a high rate of fire.

    Not that the high rate of fire isn't impressive and all, but it's not even as good as Chief's magical spear as a ranged weapon, and doesn't require reloading. He's also hasn't done anything of note since wiping out that small monster cave. Everything after that has been vs really weak enemies, or a flat out loss on Kore's part.

    He doesn't really do clever tactics either. Just charges into battle and assumes he'll win, and why the hell did he even fire at Forgath and Minmax when they were fighting the goblins at first? The guy doesn't literally just kill every single person he runs across.

    So, he's not all that smart, he's not all that tough (especially if he's been around for as long as the Axe has been around), and he doesn't really have an impressive arsenal of items. Overall, I'm very disappointed with how Kore was handled, and I no longer care about him as an antagonist.
    Last edited by tomaO2; 2020-10-28 at 01:14 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #124
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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Quote Originally Posted by tomaO2 View Post
    why the hell did he even fire at Forgath and Minmax when they were fighting the goblins at first? The guy doesn't literally just kill every single person he runs across.
    He fired at the goblins. Minmax and Forgath just happened to be close enough to be hit instead. Kore doesn't care about collateral damage (surprising, I know).
    "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  5. - Top - End - #125
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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Also, he doesn't kill every single person he runs across? Really? Do you have an actual example of anyone who's survived meeting Kore, or are you putting undue (that is, any) weight on his self-justifications?
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  6. - Top - End - #126
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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    Also, he doesn't kill every single person he runs across? Really? Do you have an actual example of anyone who's survived meeting Kore, or are you putting undue (that is, any) weight on his self-justifications?
    How about Kin, who he was perfectly content to leave alone while he was under the impression that she was a non-evil human adventurer?
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  7. - Top - End - #127
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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Somebody has to maintian his equipment so it's likely that he deosn't kill everybody he comes across, but obviously his threshold for "needs killing" is so abysmally low that he kills most people he meets.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  8. - Top - End - #128
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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    How about Kin, who he was perfectly content to leave alone while he was under the impression that she was a non-evil human adventurer?
    Yeah he doesnt kill at random, he kills the second whoever he sees gives him reason to think them evil. The problem is the threshold for what he deems evil is very nebulous as now every dwarf in forgaths line will be killed on sight with no warning as he has decided that two was enough to condemn the entire line. Even though one was only killed because he was kidnapped as a child. So anything that counts as a "monster" dies on sight. Any dwarf of forgaths clan dies on site, any person who does something he doesnt approve of dies on sight.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Yeah he doesnt kill at random, he kills the second whoever he sees gives him reason to think them evil. The problem is the threshold for what he deems evil is very nebulous as now every dwarf in forgaths line will be killed on sight with no warning as he has decided that two was enough to condemn the entire line. Even though one was only killed because he was kidnapped as a child. So anything that counts as a "monster" dies on sight. Any dwarf of forgaths clan dies on site, any person who does something he doesnt approve of dies on sight.
    And should he find, say two humans from Brassmoon, trading with the Bladebeards while he's exterminating them, well that entire group's gotta go too. His list of targets grows exponentially over time. It's really not hard to see why the "good" races call him the cursed scourge of the realm.
    "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  10. - Top - End - #130
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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    On the one hand, what I asked was obviously wrong; the goblin adventurers survived meeting him. I should have said "anyone who has encountered Kore and not been attacked by him."

    On the other hand, it remains that he has attacked literally everyone he's met in the comic, so I don't get why it's suddenly confusing that he's doing so. Unless you are--as I said to begin with--putting weight on his paper-thin pretense that he's something other than a killing machine (say, by trying to present one of the encounters where he attacked someone as somehow evidence that he doesn't attack everyone).
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  11. - Top - End - #131
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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    On the one hand, what I asked was obviously wrong; the goblin adventurers survived meeting him. I should have said "anyone who has encountered Kore and not been attacked by him."

    On the other hand, it remains that he has attacked literally everyone he's met in the comic, so I don't get why it's suddenly confusing that he's doing so. Unless you are--as I said to begin with--putting weight on his paper-thin pretense that he's something other than a killing machine (say, by trying to present one of the encounters where he attacked someone as somehow evidence that he doesn't attack everyone).
    You asked a question and you got your answer. Kore doesnt just mindlessly slaughter everybody he encounters. His logic is twisted worse than he is, but its still logic, its mostly internally consistent (if wrong) and we've seen his decision making process play out multiple times.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  12. - Top - End - #132
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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    We also know that he actually had a good impression of Forgath's clan until recently. He obviously has interacted with them in the past.

  13. - Top - End - #133
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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Until now, I think all encounters with Kore have devolved in a fight. In the case of Kin, Kore was about to test her identity when she attacked, but it's possible that he would have kept probing her until he found something that justified an attack.
    Kore also hasn't been shown with allies. That's remarkable, since, as he says, adventurers tend to band together.

    I can't find the source, but I was sure that he's on record attacking paladins (other than Ears) who had the Axe. And Forgath considered him a scourge for the Realm, not just for the monsters in it, and went "oh no" when he showed up.

    So whether he really doesn't try to kill everyone he meets is up in the air. As far as I am concerned, he definitely gives off a The Wolf and the Lamb feel. But that's just my feel.

    EDIT: Unrelated, but... wouldn't it be funny, if a click ate the Axe?
    Last edited by Vinyadan; 2020-10-28 at 08:19 PM.

  14. - Top - End - #134
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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Kore seems to take the basic starting point that monsters must all be killed. So he kills all monsters. If non monsters are found helping, or just associating with monsters, then he kills them. This can expand to killing entire families of people if he deems them to be monster collaborators, but he still doesn't write off entire races. He will kill everyone of Forgath's clan, but not all dwarves. He is also obsessed with the axe, so he would probably kill anyone in possession of it.

    We know from his conversation with Kin that he's been asked, multiple times, if he wanted help in killing monsters, to which he always says no. Kin not asking to join him was the reason he decided something was wrong.

    In addition, while he did kill the dwarf boy, he very deliberately did it last, and he had to talk himself into it. Hiding behind a table doesn't protect, as was shown. Kore also doesn't simply just attack immediately, or else he would have murdered the blind goblin. He's supposed to something of a combat pragmatist while fighting. While he doesn't really go for ambushes, he still can fight smart. I also don't think he is the type that needs to kill a monster personally. Therefore, the logical course of action was to either do nothing, or focus fire his shots in order to assist the adventurers.

    Even if you ignore that though, another characteristic of his is the fact that he methodically collects his arrows after shooting them. He doesn't have infinite ammo . I even recall Elli talking about this being the reason Kore decided to finish the blind goblin with the axe, instead of making another shot (after the first one slowed his movement down), was because was a small risk of something happening to the shot.

    All of a sudden, Kore's shooting a ton of bolts over a small bridge, in a wasteful manner, and likely to lose quite a few of the shots he made. Doesn't really fit with his previous actions.

    Was just bad tactics.
    Last edited by tomaO2; 2020-10-28 at 08:32 PM.

  15. - Top - End - #135
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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    It was him facing 6 heavily armed enemies on a flat surface with no cover other than his shield. Simple good sense to try and kill or weaken them at range before closing in. Iirc in the monster den with the dwarf kid he fired off a buttload of rounds as well because the place was swarming with monsters that would have gleefully dogpiled him if they managed to go for a grapple.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

  16. - Top - End - #136
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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    It was him facing 6 heavily armed enemies on a flat surface with no cover other than his shield. Simple good sense to try and kill or weaken them at range before closing in. Iirc in the monster den with the dwarf kid he fired off a buttload of rounds as well because the place was swarming with monsters that would have gleefully dogpiled him if they managed to go for a grapple.
    Well, it could have been him and 2 others facing off against 4 enemies if he wasn't a moron. He knows they weren't with the Goblins before, and they're clearly trying to kill them, but he shoots at Minmax and Forgath anyway.

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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Avy by Thormag
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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Well that is one way to get that info in the story, not a great way but certainly a way.^^ Now it is time to cut of a horn.

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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Time for him to do some tumbling till he can get a high enough bonus to hack off a horn.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous


    Previous update was on October 17th, it is now October 30th.
    Thirteen days since the last one. Back to under 2 weeks.
    That makes update number 13 of the speedy schedule!


    On the update itself, looks like I got played. I completely misunderstood the question. She wasn't asking if Complains could, theoretically, be a good chief, if he was made to be one, she was asking if it was possible to become a chief.

    On other words, a less confusing way to ask the question is to say "could you become the chief of your goblin tribe?" In which case, the answer is still yes, because, apparently, you can just revoke the "empty goblin status" without any issues. Therefore, I still don't like this question.

    I had no idea that "empty goblin" was the actual name of the punishment, I thought it was a general term.

    I can only assume Complains making his clan legendary status would have to do with him dumping all the rules that bound the goblins in the first place. We actually going to get a reason for goblins to have not done this already then? Really disappointed that this is it. Like, I was hoping that there would be a bit more story related to Complains actions at the camp, but this is the first time it was brought up since Chief pronounced him an empty goblin.

    Anyway, for the remaining goblins, if they can pick up any lesson from this, pick the opposite of whatever the first impression is. Obvious answers are wrong.
    Last edited by tomaO2; 2020-10-30 at 07:16 PM.

  21. - Top - End - #141
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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Quote Originally Posted by tomaO2 View Post
    Anyway, for the remaining goblins, if they can pick up any lesson from this, pick the opposite of whatever the first impression is. Obvious answers are wrong.
    Not quite - Vorpal knew what was on the sheet. He just didn't like that answer, and the angel encouraged him to give the answer that he wanted to be true rather than what he knew was actually on his sheet. (Since goblin names are given by their tellers and he is now the teller of his clan.. could he officially re-name himself? Chief wasn't supposed to be named Chief, apparently, so they must have some leeway in giving a goblin a name that differs from what they're supposedly fated to be..)

    If anything, the key lesson is that it doesn't really matter whether or not you answer the question correctly - the important part is finding a way to exit through the 'go back to life' portal rather than through the 'fall into death' portal.

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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    (Since goblin names are given by their tellers and he is now the teller of his clan.. could he officially re-name himself? Chief wasn't supposed to be named Chief, apparently, so they must have some leeway in giving a goblin a name that differs from what they're supposedly fated to be..)
    I think the leeway results in bad outcomes, unless there is some god-granted alternative. The one priest is able to ignore the naming ceremony, but then his clan also has bs exceptions.

    In the party’s clan’s case, ignoring the destined name to instead grant the name Chief resulted in their god’s disfavor. If the clan is strong enough to be able to ignore their god’s will, I guess evidence points to leeway.

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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Are they gonna rename Big Ears too? Because that sounds like a decent idea.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    Are they gonna rename Big Ears too? Because that sounds like a decent idea.
    Why? He's just gonna get those ears back.

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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    Why? He's just gonna get those ears back.
    No, he's gonna get replacement ears instead. One will be made of a rock-like material and have the appearance of weighing one ton, because it'll be big enough for Big Ears to use it as a shield. It'll be inscribed with a series of complicated glowing runes. The other ear will be made of some ethereal shimmering force, translucent but distorting what's seen through it by diffraction effects. It will also glow and shelter the souls rescued from Kore and, later, from Hell, adding a lot of tiny faces to draw.
    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Roamer View Post
    I think he did the only morally acceptable thing by killing everyone.
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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Quote Originally Posted by Gez View Post
    No, he's gonna get replacement ears instead. One will be made of a rock-like material and have the appearance of weighing one ton, because it'll be big enough for Big Ears to use it as a shield. It'll be inscribed with a series of complicated glowing runes. The other ear will be made of some ethereal shimmering force, translucent but distorting what's seen through it by diffraction effects. It will also glow and shelter the souls rescued from Kore and, later, from Hell, adding a lot of tiny faces to draw.
    That sounds too on the nose to happen this time. But I guess it could happen yet again.

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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Time View Post
    That sounds too on the nose to happen this time. But I guess it could happen yet again.
    Tempts Fate has an eye under his foot, so Ears might really grow them back on his nose.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Huh. So the author and I the reader have very different ideas about how a good aligned celestial creature would behave with a mortal.

    That's... neat.
    Last edited by Lurkmoar; 2020-11-03 at 09:12 AM.
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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    I did laugh at "it's adorable you think you have a Charisma bonus".
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Yeah im still trying to figure out what the point is with all this. Like, narratively speaking, and in universe. What is this angel trying to accomplish here?
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

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