A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #1351
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie the Duck View Post
    I guess what saves it for me is that he did notice, looked away, and warn her; and only changed that behavior after she said she didn't care. It's still him delaying giving her her tail/prolonging her suffering, but that's him being distracted by something he was told was not unokay to look at, so I'm categorizing as a separate (still suboptimal, but not so squicky) failing. All of this explanation I'm doing kinda makes me feel squickily like I'm explaining/mansplaining why 'akshually' it is technically okay and how someone else shouldn't be upset about it, so that kinda reinforces to me that it's certainly dancing close to the line if nothing else.
    If I thought that we should expect a deeper layer of complexity from Goblins (something which has been disproven a few times), then I would think that MM is kinda spacing out. Yes, he's attacted to female pudenda. But those are human genitals on a woman that he loves and doesn't normally have them. So this for him is a glimpse of a somewhat easier, more normal life. On the other hand, his great journey has been to see beyond Kin's serpentine, monstrous features and find and love the person, so in a way what he is seeing is a huge step back, the realisation of a racist's whish: that all the world should be like him. But we also have to consider that MM's journey towards Kin began when he was talking to Goblinslayer. GS said he had sex with (actually, raped) Kin every night. That was the first time she came into the MM's mental picture as an actor. And his first question was, indirectly, about her genitals: "How does that even work?". So what's happening brings him back to the start and her horrible past. And add to this that Kin, the rape victim, had achieved an invulnerable lower body (after it had been destroyed by none else than an alternate MM who hurt her in a way MM would conceivable have had before Brassmoon), and now is vulnerable again. Not just vulnerable, but actually unable to move coherently; her human body is as alien to her as her monstrous body was to MM.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  2. - Top - End - #1352
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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Yeah im going with mental effect, not reality warping. The door is an illusion, but its such a strong one that you cant force yourself to walk through it or just disbelieve it. The only way is to say true "The door is open" or say false "the door is shut" or something along those lines. That breaks the effect and you can walk through. As Neo would say, "There is no door"
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

  3. - Top - End - #1353
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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    I'm going to say that it's not an illusion specifically because actual involuntary body modification is much squickier and also entirely in character for Ellipsis to write about.

  4. - Top - End - #1354
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    RedKnightGirl

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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    I've got to be honest, this is the update that is really pushing me hard into "why do I read this comic, again?" territory. And no, it's not just because of any obvious squick value that might come into your mind; it's very clear that Kin isn't upset about what Minmax is seeing, just what has happened to her. (Although I do appreciate the people who are kind of squicked about it, because it really treads into some dubious places with both of these characters.)

    No, what bothers me is that all of the pacing issues that have been present for the comic for years are here, and I'm realizing very decisively that... I don't care about these characters. At all. Not one whit.

    Yes, Kin and Minmax had some real drama built up. The scene in the Maze of Many was an excellent moment of tension and fallout. It milked the relationship for all it was worth, and there was just the slight hint at the end that this wasn't the absolute ending but the start of something that was going to take time and effort to repair. Except that... it didn't. Kin popped in, and immediately we were informed that literally all of the character development that she needed to have happen took place offscreen, which makes the entirety of that wrenching scene a narrative cul-de-sac with no larger implications. And now we're on the fifth comic in a row which feels like it's trying to say "look, don't you remember how cute these two were together?"

    But instead of feeling like their relationship was a slow, developing thing, it now feels like it's just been retrofitted in and wasn't earned. And I don't actually care what happens to them. The plot has been so bloated, so incapable of moving ahead at a reasonable pace, so bereft of weight or intensity... it's like an endless series of setups for something interesting happen and payoffs that are promised but never arrive.
    "But it always seemed weird to me to get mad about things going wrong, as if everything turning out OK was promised to anyone, ever. There wouldn't need to be paladins if the world was, like, fair." -Lien

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  5. - Top - End - #1355
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    For me, what really left a bad aftertaste from this page is the fact that a character written by a trans person is in immense distress and trapped in a body that isn't hers after her tail was sliced open and she was left with a vagina, which she doesn't mind others seeing. Really wishing all the best right now and that there isn't a terrifying crisis coming.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  6. - Top - End - #1356
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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    For me, what really left a bad aftertaste from this page is the fact that a character written by a trans person is in immense distress and trapped in a body that isn't hers after her tail was sliced open and she was left with a vagina, which she doesn't mind others seeing. Really wishing all the best right now and that there isn't a terrifying crisis coming.
    I read it as "I don't care what you're seeing, because that's not really a part of ME."
    May you get EXACTLY what you wish for.

  7. - Top - End - #1357
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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Quote Originally Posted by sihnfahl View Post
    I read it as "I don't care what you're seeing, because that's not really a part of ME."
    I read it as "I dont care what you're seeing because HOLY CRAP PUT MY TAIL BACK THIS IS WEIRD!"
    Last edited by Keltest; 2022-09-29 at 09:44 AM.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  8. - Top - End - #1358
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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    I read it as "My lower body is always naked." (I mean, on a conscious level.)
    Last edited by Vinyadan; 2022-09-29 at 10:13 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  9. - Top - End - #1359
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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    There's a question. If your genitals were suddenly replaced by a cloaca (or any other non-human genitals) would you be embarrassed if they were also suddenly made visible?
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  10. - Top - End - #1360
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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    There's a question. If your genitals were suddenly replaced by a cloaca (or any other non-human genitals) would you be embarrassed if they were also suddenly made visible?
    Possibly after they were turned back. Likely not if I'd just suddenly had my bottom half replaced with chicken legs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  11. - Top - End - #1361
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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    There's a question. If your genitals were suddenly replaced by a cloaca (or any other non-human genitals) would you be embarrassed if they were also suddenly made visible?
    To be honest, I would probably be way too busy freaking out over the transformation to have any room for other thoughts and emotions.
    In a war it doesn't matter who's right, only who's left.

  12. - Top - End - #1362
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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    Possibly after they were turned back. Likely not if I'd just suddenly had my bottom half replaced with chicken legs.
    Luckily, Carl Barks has taught me that odd manduck hybrids don't need pants
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  13. - Top - End - #1363
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Chimera

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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    Luckily, Carl Barks has taught me that odd manduck hybrids don't need pants
    Duly noted.

  14. - Top - End - #1364
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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    I read it as "I dont care what you're seeing because HOLY CRAP PUT MY TAIL BACK THIS IS WEIRD!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    I read it as "My lower body is always naked." (I mean, on a conscious level.)
    Yes, these. I'm pretty sure Kin always has a vagina, it was left exposed when her tail got changed into legs she didn't really know how to control, and that wasn't the main thing she cared about because she wanted her legs changed back into her tail.

    I also don't think it was particularly significant, for my part. "Kin doesn't care about human nudity taboos" isn't surprising, and neither is "Minmax does."
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  15. - Top - End - #1365
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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Quote Originally Posted by sihnfahl View Post
    I read it as "I don't care what you're seeing, because that's not really a part of ME."
    Thats true, but it still carries all the baggage others mentioned, too. What squicked me out Was the disabled girl spreadeagled on the floor With just a pouch covering her pouch, pardon the crudeness. That Was directed at the Reader. Elli could make a lot of patreon money from providing a second Version. It only got worse when minmax ogled her.

    Also its just completely idiotic from top to bottom.
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  16. - Top - End - #1366
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    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    I am quite certain that it's an ackward situation and most of you are reading too much into it.
    Hello world. . .

  17. - Top - End - #1367
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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  18. - Top - End - #1368
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Ignoring the implications and everything else we can infer from the door working like this for a moment... this one's pretty damn funny.

  19. - Top - End - #1369
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    Imp

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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    I can see this going two ways, he either goes back next page. Or in several pages there will be this huge overwhelming threat and he deus ex machina the goblins and only then is returned to being human.
    Black text is for sarcasm, also sincerity. You'll just have to read between the lines and infer from context like an animal

  20. - Top - End - #1370
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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    I just want to know who build that trap, and why it has enough power to confer godhood.

  21. - Top - End - #1371
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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    I just want to know who build that trap, and why it has enough power to confer godhood.
    Assuming they arent just in a big illusion, of course.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  22. - Top - End - #1372
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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Assuming they arent just in a big illusion, of course.
    A way to potentially test that would be for Minmax to declare that he has a full head of hair or the like. If this is an illusion than he's still touching turquoise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  23. - Top - End - #1373
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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    I just want to know who build that trap, and why it has enough power to confer godhood.
    This being the comic where unholy abomination are used as basic traps and goblins hold magic items that can destroy an army, I'm kind of unimpressed.
    Besides, there are gods, lesser gods, minor lesser gods, and then MinMax esploring philosophy.
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  24. - Top - End - #1374
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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    I cant get my head around how Kin would by now have her tail taken for granted.
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  25. - Top - End - #1375
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    I wonder if godhood minimax will have the same disposition as Psion minimax? Either way, she's obviously going to touch one of the turquoise tiles and make minimax back to normal.

    Of course, if they leave this room without at least trying to use its apparent unlimited magical ability to accomplish their main objective, I'll be a bit disappointed.

  26. - Top - End - #1376
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    RedKnightGirl

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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Also she seems to have gotten her real tail back, and not the neon green MoM regenerated one.

  27. - Top - End - #1377
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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Quote Originally Posted by Pax1138 View Post
    Also she seems to have gotten her real tail back, and not the neon green MoM regenerated one.
    I somehow did not realize that -- it's been so long since the MoM that I forgot that was even a plot point.

  28. - Top - End - #1378
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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Quote Originally Posted by SirSoliloquy View Post
    I somehow did not realize that -- it's been so long since the MoM that I forgot that was even a plot point.
    Well, either the door doesn't actually change things so she still has her new tail and it doesn't matter or it actually does change things and she can get it back with a sentence and it doesn't matter.
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  29. - Top - End - #1379
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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    I have to say, this door looks pretty benevolent. It isn't some monkey paw, at least for now.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  30. - Top - End - #1380
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

    Could also be down to Minmax' lucky wording: "you have your tail" removes a lot of room for interpretation.

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