Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

[Quild]

Soooo :

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The first door was lime on both side. Now it's orange?
What if Complains/Chief had taken the purple door?

Despite how stupid GAP can sometimes be, looping hundred of times on 2 corridors without figuring? Really?
They figured the "against themselves timey-demony thing" during fight but not that?

[Traab]

I mean, the hallways are fairly generic as in no clearly obvious differences aside from some being shaped stone blocks and some being a smooth corridor that might as well be solid cement. So without obvious landmarks its excusable that they wouldnt recognize its the same thing for some time. Especially if they were focusing on the color of the doors to see if there was some sort of pattern of colors they should follow. I hope there is some sort of clue as to the pattern they have to follow because very little sucks more than trying at random till it eventually works. It helps there are only two sets of choices to make as its between two sets of doors but there is no way to be sure of the order or how many repeats it takes to set it off.

A better option would be, search every square inch of the floor walls and ceiling of both sets of hallways. Its entirely likely this is a misdirection time wasting trap and the real exit is hidden. Too bad we dont have forgath here to help with splying!

[Quild]

I mean, the hallways are fairly generic as in no clearly obvious differences aside from some being shaped stone blocks and some being a smooth corridor that might as well be solid cement. So without obvious landmarks its excusable that they wouldnt recognize its the same thing for some time. Especially if they were focusing on the color of the doors to see if there was some sort of pattern of colors they should follow. I hope there is some sort of clue as to the pattern they have to follow because very little sucks more than trying at random till it eventually works. It helps there are only two sets of choices to make as its between two sets of doors but there is no way to be sure of the order or how many repeats it takes to set it off.

A better option would be, search every square inch of the floor walls and ceiling of both sets of hallways. Its entirely likely this is a misdirection time wasting trap and the real exit is hidden. Too bad we dont have forgath here to help with splying!

So, if you have:
- You enter a hallway with walls made of stone blocks and two doors in the end. One white with red dots, the other one white with blue dots.
- You enter a corridor with blabla walls and two doors in the end. One white with Purple dots, the other one white with orange dots.
- You enter a hallway with walls made of stone blocks and two doors in the end. One white with red dots, the other one white with blue dots.
- You enter a corridor with blabla walls and two doors in the end. One white with purple dots, the other one white with orange dots.
- You enter a hallway with walls made of stone blocks and two doors in the end. One white with red dots, the other one white with blue dots.
- You enter a corridor with blabla walls and two doors in the end. One white with purple dots, the other one white with orange dots.
- You enter a hallway with walls made of stone blocks and two doors in the end. One white with red dots, the other one white with blue dots.
- You enter a corridor with blabla walls and two doors in the end. One white with purple dots, the other one white with orange dots.
- You enter a hallway with walls made of stone blocks and two doors in the end. One white with red dots, the other one white with blue dots.
- You enter a corridor with blabla walls and two doors in the end. One white with purple dots, the other one white with orange dots.

How long does it take you to figure there might be a problem here?
It took them one hour. The "hundred hallway" might not be an understatement considering how short the hallway is (looks like Chief is taking time to cross one corridor though).

That's making the GAP more stupid than they should be.
But whatever.

[Draconi Redfir]

keep in mind the GAP aren't genre savvy, they don't have the experience of other stories or years of adventuring experience like we do. They only started doing this adventuring thing less then a week ago.


This is probably the first "Room loop" situation they have ever even heard of, the concept just didn't exist to them before.

[Willie the Duck]

So, if you have:
- You enter a hallway with walls made of stone blocks and two doors in the end. One white with red dots, the other one white with blue dots.
- You enter a corridor with blabla walls and two doors in the end. One white with Purple dots, the other one white with orange dots.
- You enter a hallway with walls made of stone blocks and two doors in the end. One white with red dots, the other one white with blue dots.
- You enter a corridor with blabla walls and two doors in the end. One white with purple dots, the other one white with orange dots.
- You enter a hallway with walls made of stone blocks and two doors in the end. One white with red dots, the other one white with blue dots.
- You enter a corridor with blabla walls and two doors in the end. One white with purple dots, the other one white with orange dots.
- You enter a hallway with walls made of stone blocks and two doors in the end. One white with red dots, the other one white with blue dots.
- You enter a corridor with blabla walls and two doors in the end. One white with purple dots, the other one white with orange dots.
- You enter a hallway with walls made of stone blocks and two doors in the end. One white with red dots, the other one white with blue dots.
- You enter a corridor with blabla walls and two doors in the end. One white with purple dots, the other one white with orange dots.

How long does it take you to figure there might be a problem here?
It took them one hour. The "hundred hallway" might not be an understatement considering how short the hallway is (looks like Chief is taking time to cross one corridor though).

That's making the GAP more stupid than they should be.
But whatever.

They initially went through a door with yellow dots to get to a hallway with red and blue options, now they are in one with an orange door leading to the hallway they are in with red and blue options on the other end. There appears to be some form of color-changing going on, or a magical switchout after the initial entrance, either of which could explain the confusion.

[Quild]

They initially went through a door with yellow dots to get to a hallway with red and blue options, now they are in one with an orange door leading to the hallway they are in with red and blue options on the other end. There appears to be some form of color-changing going on, or a magical switchout after the initial entrance, either of which could explain the confusion.

I also wondered how only 2 corridors cope with the fact that either door seems to lead to the same issue (maybe there's a third corridor when you pick right, but doesn't change the point about that first corridor).

But still, besides the first door, they mostly sticked to the left. So it has been red and orange door almost all along.

keep in mind the GAP aren't genre savvy, they don't have the experience of other stories or years of adventuring experience like we do. They only started doing this adventuring thing less then a week ago.


This is probably the first "Room loop" situation they have ever even heard of, the concept just didn't exist to them before.

Ears figured the time-loop-room during a fight! https://www.goblinscomic.com/comic/06062016-2

But now, it's one hour to figure that? It's not an important issue, but that seems long to me!

[Fyraltari]

I also wondered how only 2 corridors cope with the fact that either door seems to lead to the same issue (maybe there's a third corridor when you pick right, but doesn't change the point about that first corridor).

One door gets you back to the other side of the corridor you're currently in, the other door gets you to the second corridor.

[Draconi Redfir]

Ears figured the time-loop-room during a fight! https://www.goblinscomic.com/comic/06062016-2

But now, it's one hour to figure that? It's not an important issue, but that seems long to me!

That wasn't a time loop room, or if it was, it was only a single loop. Once they played out both sides, it was all over.

Honestly that room was more light fighting constructs that lived out your past / future actions and figuring out that any actions you took would be actions they took, which was easy enough to identify after seeing the constructs reenacting their past actions to the letter.

[Vinyadan]

.

Honestly that room was more light fighting constructs that lived out your past / future actions and figuring out that any actions you took would be actions they took, which was easy enough to identify after seeing the constructs reenacting their past actions to the letter.

I think that cutting the duplicate room realization relatively short was a good idea in general, because the similarities between the copies and the GAP were very easy to spot for us readers. What's taking a long time is for Ears to understand why the axe broke, since Vorpal's staff destroys magical bindings and the ability was likely carried over to its copy. The main problem I had with it is that Ears consequently had one of his "oh no, my noble quest" moments, which already feel overdone and repetitive to me, and, in this case, very hard to relate to, since he was assuming that it was due to a personal failing, instead of one of the many random magical items of which the comic is littered.

[Morgaln]

One door gets you back to the other side of the corridor you're currently in, the other door gets you to the second corridor.

But then you should see yourself when opening one of the doors. If that was true, they would have figured it out as soon as they switched to going right instead of left. Rather, it probably doesn't matter which door they go through in a room, they all lead to the same room.

Of course Complains' test doesn't actually prove there are only two rooms. All it proves is that there is a loop. It might well consist of more than two rooms.

If there is a solution that involves finding a third room, the way is probably to leave someone in this room and the one Complains just came from. The other two walk through the sequence and leave every door they go through open. That way, they can see at a glance if they've been to a specific room, gone through a door already, and whether it leads back to the beginning of the maze or not.

If it's just to open doors in a certain order, it's either try and error or finding a clue to the sequence that is hopefully around.

[Anonymouswizard]

Yeah, three hallways is likely how I'd set it up. Each door takes you to one of the one's you're not in. (Alternatively four hallways split into two alternating pairs).

You're assuming that the doors don't close automatically. Although at that point you probably leave a goblin at every door to keep it open. Open one door, leave a goblin, the rest of the party goes down the next hallway, opens a door, leave a goblin, go down the hallway and open a door. If there are two hallways you're now certain to be opening a door that's already open, which at the very least gives you information.

But yeah, it's most likely a secret door.

[Tvtyrant]

It should also be mentioned that there is a thing called Executive Disfunction, where the brain stops noticing patterns and begins just wearing out after too much stress/too many choices. They have done more in a week then most people in a lifetime, they should really be barely functional and in a state of shock by this point.

[Anteros]

It should also be mentioned that there is a thing called Executive Disfunction, where the brain stops noticing patterns and begins just wearing out after too much stress/too many choices. They have done more in a week then most people in a lifetime, they should really be barely functional and in a state of shock by this point.

That's the type of thing these kinds of stories don't usually address though.

[Fyraltari]

That's the type of thing these kinds of stories don't usually address though.

Though it's kind of tradition to have the protagonist sleep at least a full 24 hours the first night they get after the climax.

[Tvtyrant]

That's the type of thing these kinds of stories don't usually address though.

Fair. I just think given how exhausted they should all be them not noticing a pattern isn't necessarily them being dumb.

[Vinyadan]

It also depends on how much light there really is in those rooms, although, being goblins, they can probably see better than we would.

[Dragonus45]

It should also be mentioned that there is a thing called Executive Disfunction, where the brain stops noticing patterns and begins just wearing out after too much stress/too many choices. They have done more in a week then most people in a lifetime, they should really be barely functional and in a state of shock by this point.

There are some interesting studies about people who have seen extended combat about that kind of thing and while I don't have them on hand and I usually have to rely on people who have real degrees to interpret it so don't call this an exact quote it seemed like that sort of drained inability to think comes after when someone has time to really stop and not move for the first time. They really have been going almost nonstop the whole time.

[Anteros]

I'm just more impressed that they apparently closed the door behind them every single time. You'd think they'd leave a trail or something as soon as they assumed they were in a maze.

Also, the door in the first hall was yellow. If it's a loop with only 2 halls, then wouldn't the door they're by, or the door Name's is coming out of also be yellow? Unless that hallway wasn't part of the puzzle.

[Draconi Redfir]

considering the yellow door is what got them into this puzzle, I'd expect it's unique in some way.

[Anteros]

considering the yellow door is what got them into this puzzle, I'd expect it's unique in some way.

Perhaps. I'm just curious whether it's intended or an error.

[Vinyadan]

I'm just more impressed that they apparently closed the door behind them every single time. You'd think they'd leave a trail or something as soon as they assumed they were in a maze.

At first, I thought that too. Then I remembered that they still have Kore hounding them, and they can't nuke him with a golem this time.

Of course, it would have been better if these things had been stated by the characters.

[Fyraltari]

I think the idea is that the doors change colors when they're not looking.
As for the closed doors, it could be as simple as the doors being imbalanced and so closing themselves.

[Morgaln]

However, the walls look like it should be easy to break out chunks that can be used to prop the doors open. Especially with magic weapons.

[Lacco]

Considering what we've seen so far from this dungeon, I assume their IME should be matched with the door.

Does anyone remember what are the IME of the goblins? I could check, but I find the archive extremely irritating and I assume there are fans that keep track of info like this.

[Keltest]

Considering what we've seen so far from this dungeon, I assume their IME should be matched with the door.

Does anyone remember what are the IME of the goblins? I could check, but I find the archive extremely irritating and I assume there are fans that keep track of info like this.

Uhh... Off hand i recall that Names is purple, which has become exceptionally elaborate but rarely seen given that he isnt a spellcaster, and i want to say that Big Ears is just yellow, consistent with, you know, everything about him. I dont think we've ever seen Thaco's, and while Vorpal can and has cast spells, i dont think it was a big flashy one.

[Morgaln]

Uhh... Off hand i recall that Names is purple, which has become exceptionally elaborate but rarely seen given that he isnt a spellcaster, and i want to say that Big Ears is just yellow, consistent with, you know, everything about him. I dont think we've ever seen Thaco's, and while Vorpal can and has cast spells, i dont think it was a big flashy one.

Vorpal's is white, we've seen that once when he grabbed Name's original sword. I don't think we've ever seen Thaco's IME.

[Wildstag]

Uhh... Off hand i recall that Names is purple, which has become exceptionally elaborate but rarely seen given that he isnt a spellcaster

Um... we see it every time he rages, which is pretty often. The purple demon tail was his IME, and now that's expanded to include demonic wings.

[Vinyadan]

Uhh... Off hand i recall that Names is purple, which has become exceptionally elaborate but rarely seen given that he isnt a spellcaster, and i want to say that Big Ears is just yellow, consistent with, you know, everything about him. I dont think we've ever seen Thaco's, and while Vorpal can and has cast spells, i dont think it was a big flashy one.

Names' is a large purple scorpion tail, like that of those demons coming out of a hole in the ground at the beginning of the comic. Now it has wings, which explains why he inexplicably started flying while in the angel's domain. https://www.goblinscomic.com/comic/page-11-2020 Big Ears' looks like yellow bricks, unless he also got wings from the angel's horn https://www.goblinscomic.com/comic/06272008 https://www.goblinscomic.com/comic/page-2-2021 . Chief's looked like a pale blue, partial sketch of the face on his crown https://www.goblinscomic.com/comic/11052010-2 . Vorpal has used spells without showing much of an IME https://www.goblinscomic.com/comic/prophecies , but his face lights up in a white flame when he uses magic items. https://www.goblinscomic.com/comic/page-10-2020 , so I don't think we have seen how his effect is shaped. Thac0's IME might be light orange https://www.goblinscomic.com/comic/page-7-2021 as all other characters have a violent colorful explosion as they appear or disappear, matching their IMEs. However, when he reappears, he doesn't even sparkle. https://www.goblinscomic.com/comic/page-17-2021

[Anteros]

Names' is a large purple scorpion tail, like that of those demons coming out of a hole in the ground at the beginning of the comic. Now it has wings, which explains why he inexplicably started flying while in the angel's domain. https://www.goblinscomic.com/comic/page-11-2020 Big Ears' looks like yellow bricks, unless he also got wings from the angel's horn https://www.goblinscomic.com/comic/06272008 https://www.goblinscomic.com/comic/page-2-2021 . Chief's looked like a pale blue, partial sketch of the face on his crown https://www.goblinscomic.com/comic/11052010-2 . Vorpal has used spells without showing much of an IME https://www.goblinscomic.com/comic/prophecies , but his face lights up in a white flame when he uses magic items. https://www.goblinscomic.com/comic/page-10-2020 , so I don't think we have seen how his effect is shaped. Thac0's IME might be light orange https://www.goblinscomic.com/comic/page-7-2021 as all other characters have a violent colorful explosion as they appear or disappear, matching their IMEs. However, when he reappears, he doesn't even sparkle. https://www.goblinscomic.com/comic/page-17-2021

The white flame on Vorpal's face in that scene is just his moustache. It's enchanted to glow.

[Anarchic Fox]

The room at the beginning of this dungeon changed lighting depending on the speaker's IME. From it, Thaco's is orange, Big Ears' is yellow, Complains' is purple, Minmax's is a darker purple, and Vorpal's is white.