Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

[Willie the Duck]

I think I might be done with this comic. ...
I don't care how Danelle was convinced to allow this, but the woman has been an absolute rock for this... GOBLIN... for years and years, and now is being openly cucked? I can't even.

You've clearly been 'done' with this comic since forever. You've been hate-watching the thing, hoping for it to fail/fall/disappoint to validate your enmity* towards the author. It's been flagrantly obvious the whole time. Also, did you just un-ironically use the term 'cuck?'
*which seems odd since your initial primary complaint -- the undelivered product -- is a clearly valid complaint and one that exists completely independently to whether the ongoing comic is great or horrible, wildly successful or a failure, etc.

Even if if her wife wasn't aware, which I doubt because because why would she post something she'd want secret on Twitter, that's between the two of them.

That's pretty much it. You don't discuss an elicit affair on a public social media venue.

But nothing I can find that suggests they weren't in an open or polyamorous relationship beforehand, or that her spouse isn't having her own partners. As long as it's always been consensual there's no problem with it.

Wild conjecture, but what Elli's transition has put the two of them in the position where they both love each other and want to stay married, but no longer look at the other person and see someone they find sexually attractive?

[Draconi Redfir]

If you hate her that much, why are you even looking at her twitter?

Pretty much what I'm wondering.

{Scrubbed}

Personally what Elli does in her personal life is of no concern to me, it's her life and all, not mine.

[Radar]

If you hate her that much, why are you even looking at her twitter?

I think it is appropriate to quote rabbi Twerski here: Harboring your resentment is allowing someone you don't like to live inside your head without paying any rent.

By all means a solid lesson to learn.

[Willie the Duck]

{Scrub the post, scrub the quote}

I'm not even go so far as to say it isn't welcome. I'd just say please don't fool yourself into thinking that the rest of us don't see exactly what is going on.

[Keltest]

I'm not even go so far as to say it isn't welcome. I'd just say please don't fool yourself into thinking that the rest of us don't see exactly what is going on.

I'm with Draconi. If you want to criticize her business practices, i personally am not interested but the comic is her business so its your right to talk about it. {Scrubbed}

[Dragonus45]

Looks like a complex situation, I don't follow twitter stuff so I'm trying to learn all this at once going though backlogs. I hope things are ok between them and all of this is above board. Frankly most polyamory is even if it comes into a previously monogamous relationship, but I've seen how this specific situation looks when it isn't and it can be ugly. For all she can't handle her IP or money for **** Eli has always seemed to want to try and be a good person and partner so I'm throwing her the benefit of the doubt here.

:EDIT:
Oh boy that sure is twitter account I can't read at work. I'm not gonna bother digging too much deeper then the stuff we see here which all seems fine and dandy if way more information then I ever wanted in my life about Eli and her sex life.

[Typewriter]

Just wanted to throw in real quick that I sometimes check Ellis twitter to see if there are any updates posted anywhere. The last update on the site was by Danielle 1.5 years ago. The last update by Elli herself was 2.5 years ago. Every now and then something comic related will show up on one of her two twitters so I check there. Just pointing this out since some people are wondering why people who are interested in the comic, but not Elli, would be looking at her twitter.

{Scrubbed}

[Draconi Redfir]

Just wanted to throw in real quick that I sometimes check Ellis twitter to see if there are any updates posted anywhere. The last update on the site was by Danielle 1.5 years ago. The last update by Elli herself was 2.5 years ago. Every now and then something comic related will show up on one of her two twitters so I check there. Just pointing this out since some people are wondering why people who are interested in the comic, but not Elli, would be looking at her twitter.

the messages in question were posted only on the second twitter account Elli_Trans, this account has 0% to do with Elli's career and from what I'm aware is more of a personal space for exploring her new identity, NSFW stuff, and things that are related to that. it's only EllipsisGoblins (her first twitter) that contains any Goblins-related content. So unless you were specifically looking for information on Elli herself, there would be no reason to visit Elli_Trans as someone only interested in the comic.

[Lurkmoar]

Glad to have that heads up. Sometimes it's useful to check an artists Twitter feed to see what's up.

[Vinyadan]

There's a lot of things I'd feel like saying, and most are rather incomplete.

One is that the trans twitter feed is fundamentally the amazingly open diary of a sexual life. And it's a pretty wild and surprising ride, from barely covered nude selfies, to talk of a long distance submissive (what? ), to this giddy narration of a sexual encounter. And I have to say, for it being about a world and a lifestyle very alien from mine, it's surprisingly well-written. The recount of this little affair with a dude actually had a very comedy-like feel; I couldn't help but laugh while reading it, not in a derisive way, but because the language itself is somewhat deliberately paradoxical in its explanation (the direction of the penis, for example: that it's good if it's pointing towards you, and it was bad when it was pointing out of you, is a description of the trans experience I had never read, and it's surprisingly clear).

And then I think about how the writing of Goblins has gone downhill compared to its beginnings, and how private writing has instead gotten better and better (there was a now deleted fundraiser pitch in the blog that really impressed me back then). And I wonder, is it possible that the author just isn't anywhere near Goblins, as far as mood is concerned? I mean, here is a giddy account, enthusiasm, and a lot of hope for the future. On the other hand, we have a comic where everything is dark to the point of stupidity, the characters have a very limited emotional palette, and the GAP members are mostly extremely jaded (Thac0 is extremely cold at times), even just because, if they took the time to talk about all the crap happening to them and giving it the weight it deserves, that would be a dozen pages of dialogue. And the story was written a long time ago, and pages are hard to draw...

So I wonder if, artistically speaking, it wouldn't be better to just ditch Goblins and write private memoirs. Something like that guy "Diabetes with Owls", David Sedaris. He writes diaries all the time, then selects the most important stuff and publishes them as books.

It's also that the trans feed feels better written than similar experiences I occasionally read about in the press. I've often felt some disconnect between text and style in these cases, and now I think it's because editors can't help but inject gravitas into whatever they can get their hands on (which also explains why I couldn't bring myself to read Randall Munroe's articles on the NYT: his style is all about levity, but the articles were clearly edited by someone who didn't understand that). But I don't think gravitas has much to do with sex.

It's also true that I'm talking about this whole thing as something literary, which means that I don't actually assume or care about whether this a faithful account of something that did happen. This could also be a little erotic game, a moment of fantasy put into writing. It's on twitter, whose point is the lack of filter. Which means no editors, no censors, but also no fact-checkers.

Now, about the whole wedlock deal... while I know that there's an oversharing addict at work here, the idea of unwittingly confessing an extramarital affair like this makes me die from laughter, almost as much as the idea of an erotic comic with Goblins art. It's just so out there, it feels like a parody.

[SaintRidley]

the messages in question were posted only on the second twitter account Elli_Trans, this account has 0% to do with Elli's career and from what I'm aware is more of a personal space for exploring her new identity, NSFW stuff, and things that are related to that. it's only EllipsisGoblins (her first twitter) that contains any Goblins-related content. So unless you were specifically looking for information on Elli herself, there would be no reason to visit Elli_Trans as someone only interested in the comic.

Yeah, I just checked to see if there was an update because I noticed new posts in here and silly me, that can never wind up being the case. Instead someone's pitching a fit after going to Elli's personal, non-business twitter account and seeing that Elli tweeted some thoughts and feelings about her first time with a cis guy and proceeded to choose to read it as the worst possible scenario (cheating, etc.).

Like, I get thinking the comic kinda sucks at points or is incohesive and way too slow to update. I get thinking Elli has absolutely zero business sense or know-how for marketing her IP. I get those, and those make sense to bring here because they relate to the comic. But even sticking to those subjects, there's no reason to attack Elli personally over them (and I've seen more than enough of that). And completely unjustifiable is digging into her personal life and using it to attack her further.

Unrelated, I'm looking at Elli's selfies and am really hoping I can see similar levels of results from hrt when I start.

[Dragonus45]

You know, I agree in general that this is much ado about nothing and I also agree the authors personal life isn't very important to the work... but oh boy is it funny to me when people want to apply that standard in such uneven ways.

[Anteros]

Pretty much what I'm wondering.

{Scrub the post, scrub the quote}

Personally what Elli does in her personal life is of no concern to me, it's her life and all, not mine.

We have been through this many times at this point, but you are not the arbiter of what is or is not welcome on this thread. I'm not sure why you keep trying to act as though you are.

I do think that if the current discussion continues that this thread will end up locked though. Maybe that's for the best though. It's not as though we talk about the comic. There's barely a comic to talk about anyway. It's just Elli's personal life and whatever new scam project she comes up with to con her readers out of their money.

[Draconi Redfir]

We have been through this many times at this point, but you are not the arbiter of what is or is not welcome on this thread. I'm not sure why you keep trying to act as though you are.

Sorry for wanting to keep the thread actually on topic i guess? You wouldn't want me going into the "Microsoft acquires Activision Blizzard" thread and start going off about the lifespan and mating habits of Mantatees now would you?

{Scrubbed}

[Anonymouswizard]

Sorry for wanting to keep the thread actually on topic i guess? You wouldn't want me going into the "Microsoft acquires Activision Blizzard" thread and start going off about the lifespan and mating habits of Mantatees now would you?.

To be fair, unless Microsoft's leadership has changed massively since I last checked, it's not really similar. More like wandering into the Girl Genius thread and asking if Phil Foglio is going to go back to making NFSW comics

Also, at least for the current line of discussion I'm not seeing much toxicity. Sure it started because of it, but most of the discussion has been civil.

[Anteros]

Sorry for wanting to keep the thread actually on topic i guess? You wouldn't want me going into the "Microsoft acquires Activision Blizzard" thread and start going off about the lifespan and mating habits of Mantatees now would you?
{Scrub the post, scrub the quote}

Most of the "toxicity" you're talking about is just pointing out the author's actions. If simply pointing out someone's actions seems like an insult....well that should tell you everything you need to know. And yes, in general if the author of a comic comes out and makes their personal life public, then talking about it is fair game. In general I feel that people deserve their privacy...until they choose to forgo it. The thread is about the Goblins comic and all things pertaining to it. Maybe if Elli gave us more positive things to talk about then the thread would be more positive.

Personally, I couldn't care less about Elli's personal relationships. I can see why other people might talk about them though when the author brings them up though. I can also also see why people might take a cynical view towards things when you consider the complete and utter self-centeredness and unwillingness to take personal responsibility for every other aspect of their life that we're aware of. It's not like we have anything else Goblins related to talk about. That would require Elli to actually work on the comic.

[Draconi Redfir]

Most of the "toxicity" you're talking about is just pointing out the author's actions.

{Scrubbed}

[Morgaln]

{Scrub the quote,scrub the post}

There's a lot of middle ground between "Ellipsis Stephens is a terrible person" and "don't talk about the author's actions, ever."
Knowing about the author's actions can absolutely be on topic in that it makes people aware of the kind of person she is and whether they want to support the comic or not (either financially or just by reading it). It might not be interesting to you personally, and some of it isn't interesting to me either (I care nothing about her sexual escapades), but that doesn't mean this isn't the right place to discuss the matter.
I for my part am glad that there is a place where criticism of Ellipsis' actions can be voiced in a mature way (with the appropriate pushback when it is unfounded). That is far from an "Ellipsis Stephens is a terrible person" thread; such a thread does exist somewhere else and it is a transphobic hellhole that I left in disgust a few years ago. Believe me, the criticism here is nothing like that.

[Willie the Duck]

{Scrub the post, scrub the quote}

We have been through this many times at this point, but you are not the arbiter of what is or is not welcome on this thread. I'm not sure why you keep trying to act as though you are.

There's a lot of middle ground between "Ellipsis Stephens is a terrible person" and "don't talk about the author's actions, ever."

This is true, however there is also a middle ground between Draconi Redfir saying "that's just not welcome" and them being the "the arbiter of what is or is not welcome on this thread." Maybe not as much as there could be. I think some simple reframing could salvage this in a way that a long, drawn-out urination match won't. Draconi, do you agree that Ellipsis' personal life and potential foibles is something you specifically and personally do not find welcome in this discussion of the comic, rather than some clear and obvious universal truth or forum rules you think would be broken by staying on the sub-topic? I'm assuming your "that's just not welcome" has a silent, 'I feel that...' before it, instead of a 'I have declared that...' that I think Anteros is seeing.

[Draconi Redfir]

Draconi, do you agree that Ellipsis' personal life and potential foibles is something you specifically and personally do not find welcome in this discussion of the comic, rather than some clear and obvious universal truth or forum rules you think would be broken by staying on the sub-topic? I'm assuming your "that's just not welcome" has a silent, 'I feel that...' before it, instead of a 'I have declared that...' that I think Anteros is seeing.

{Scrubbed}

[Keltest]

{Scrubbed}

[Dragonus45]

{Scrub the post, scrub the quote}

So she is sort of broadcasting it quite literally to the public. I agree with you in general that this is a huge nothingburger of a complaint (since I don't see any actual evidence or implication that Eli is cheating or abusing her wife because if she was that would be totally fair game to at least talk about and discuss) but saying it's a violation of privacy when she really explicitly is not keeping much of anything private feels like a stretch.

[Draconi Redfir]

So she is sort of broadcasting it quite literally to the public.

on her personal twitter. this is not her personal twitter. I'm fine with talking about my obsessive BIONICLE collection in my room, but the moment you take that and start talking behind my back about it to a bunch of people i don't know in a shopping mall on the other side of the country without my consent, that is taking things too far.

[Dragonus45]

on her personal twitter. this is not her personal twitter. I'm fine with talking about my obsessive BIONICLE collection in my room, but the moment you take that and start talking behind my back about it to a bunch of people i don't know in a shopping mall on the other side of the country without my consent, that is taking things too far.

That... is a really strange line to draw but I guess it's yours to draw for yourself. I will say I find it especially hard to draw lines with Goblins because Eli, chronic sharer that she is, and her personality and health both mental and otherwise and just her overall constant general out of comic presence is fairly deeply present in every aspect of the fandom and it's conversations. Eli talks about herself to us constantly to us her fans so of course we have always talked about her when there isn't comic to talk about. I get that you have been frustrated on multiple levels and I share some of that frustration but like I said, feels like an arbitrary line to draw here.

[Draconi Redfir]

That... is a really strange line to draw but I guess it's yours to draw for yourself. I will say I find it especially hard to draw lines with Goblins because Eli, chronic sharer that she is, and her personality and health both mental and otherwise and just her overall constant general out of comic presence is fairly deeply present in every aspect of the fandom and it's conversations. Eli talks about herself to us constantly to us her fans so of course we have always talked about her when there isn't comic to talk about. I get that you have been frustrated on multiple levels and I share some of that frustration but like I said, feels like an arbitrary line to draw here.

{Scrubbed}

[Morgaln]

on her personal twitter. this is not her personal twitter. I'm fine with talking about my obsessive BIONICLE collection in my room, but the moment you take that and start talking behind my back about it to a bunch of people i don't know in a shopping mall on the other side of the country without my consent, that is taking things too far.

Does this apply to everyone? Like, t{Scrubbed}? News anchors? Football players? Actors? If any of these say something on a public channel, are we not allowed to talk about it because those people are not present? If those are different, where do you draw the line and why?

[Draconi Redfir]

Does this apply to everyone? {Scrub the quote, scrub the post}? News anchors? Football players? Actors? If any of these say something on a public channel, are we not allowed to talk about it because those people are not present? If those are different, where do you draw the line and why?

With all due respect I'd rather not answer this question as i feel it might touch too close to the "no discussing real world politics / religion" rule.

[Willie the Duck]

Thank you for the clarification, Draconi. You are advocating a course of action, not declaring yourself arbiter of what is allowed (just arbiter of what you'd like to see, which is true of us all). I feel comfortable saying that I respect your position while disagreeing with certain parts of your acceptable line (I agree that this isn't especially relevant to the webcomic, but also think Elli is making this public).

{Scrub the post, scrub the quote}

Scrubbed I'm not sure, though, what I think about whether their initial intentions should determine whether the discussion is acceptable or not. Intention-based ethics is an iffy one at best.

tl/dr: I see no point in continuing the increasingly irrelevant discussion of Elli's personal life, but am not sure where I'd stand on the ethics of doing so.

[Typewriter]

the messages in question were posted only on the second twitter account Elli_Trans, this account has 0% to do with Elli's career and from what I'm aware is more of a personal space for exploring her new identity, NSFW stuff, and things that are related to that. it's only EllipsisGoblins (her first twitter) that contains any Goblins-related content. So unless you were specifically looking for information on Elli herself, there would be no reason to visit Elli_Trans as someone only interested in the comic.

I don't follow twitter that much at all so this is a bit out of date but at the 'start' of the two accounts she would regularly post Goblins related things to the 'personal' account. As a result if I checked the main account and found nothing I would check the other and see something mentioning the comic. Maybe the division is more solid than it used to be - but as a result of my early experiences with it I tend to check both accounts when curious about the state of the comic. That being said I don't do so very often because there's almost never anything in either location of any relevance to the comic. Personally I think that Twitter is a terrible medium for providing updates to people. I like the way that the Giant does it where it's literally almost nothing else besides updates and those updates are provided directly on the site itself.

[Dragonus45]

I don't follow twitter that much at all so this is a bit out of date but at the 'start' of the two accounts she would regularly post Goblins related things to the 'personal' account. As a result if I checked the main account and found nothing I would check the other and see something mentioning the comic. Maybe the division is more solid than it used to be - but as a result of my early experiences with it I tend to check both accounts when curious about the state of the comic. That being said I don't do so very often because there's almost never anything in either location of any relevance to the comic. Personally I think that Twitter is a terrible medium for providing updates to people. I like the way that the Giant does it where it's literally almost nothing else besides updates and those updates are provided directly on the site itself.

Yea the division between the two feels more like Eli wanted to keep the NSFW stuff in it's own corner more then she was that determined to keep the streams totally separate in general. Also

Personally I think that Twitter is a terrible medium ...

This sums up everything and all of it.