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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Asisreo1 View Post
    The easiest thing a DM can do is give the power back to the player. That is, let the player decide when they want to use the Wild Magic table.

    If the DM wants some form of control still, he can veto the Wild Magic so a sorcerer still can't quite predict it but the burden of it activating no longer falls onto the DM. It's something I've been tinkering with as a DM and it's been fun so far.
    I was considering a variation of this, where the DM can instead still decide to call for a wild magic roll even if the player doesn't.
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  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Asisreo1 View Post
    The easiest thing a DM can do is give the power back to the player. That is, let the player decide when they want to use the Wild Magic table.

    If the DM wants some form of control still, he can veto the Wild Magic so a sorcerer still can't quite predict it but the burden of it activating no longer falls onto the DM. It's something I've been tinkering with as a DM and it's been fun so far.
    If I had a player using it, I'd tell them to roll the d20 every time they cast a spell unless I specifically said otherwise, rather than it being only when I wanted them to. A 1/20 chance every time they cast a spell is fine.

    When they use the power that makes it more likely, I'd say it works the next time they cast a leveled spell unless I specifically choose otherwise.

    My "unless I choose otherwise" is mainly to prevent it from disrupting a scene or being otherwise unfun when it happens.

    Quote Originally Posted by Luccan View Post
    I was considering a variation of this, where the DM can instead still decide to call for a wild magic roll even if the player doesn't.
    I think we're on the same page, here, if not exactly at the same paragraph.

  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    But I am very, very confused why the notion of a d3 bothers so many people.
    Because it's a non-standard die.

    Not everyone takes the extra effort to purchase an (both figuratively and physically) oddly shaped "die" to be able to roll exactly d3, and the d6 method is awkward at best. It's not hard, it's just annoying.

    Besides, if the system comes with a set of dice: 1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 1d10, 1d12, 1d20 and d%, then WHY do we need an abstract die to be rolled with some other die or dice? (granted, d% is close to being the same, but at least they made the effort to include a special die in the standard dice set just for that. d3 didn't get any of that courtesy).

    Plus, it's still argued over and over again after 40 years whether you should use a) 1,2 (1); 3,4(2); 5,6(3) OR b) 1,2,3 (1,2,3) and 4,5,6 (1,2,3).

    TL;DR: d3 is STUPID.
    Last edited by Arkhios; 2020-09-17 at 01:44 AM.
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  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhios View Post
    Because it's a non-standard die.

    Not everyone takes the extra effort to purchase an (both figuratively and physically) oddly shaped "die" to be able to roll exactly d3, and the d6 method is awkward at best. It's not hard, it's just annoying.
    There are d6's that have 1-3 twice. Otherwise, use a d4 and reroll 4's, or just, you know, talk to your group about which method you're using and use a d6.

  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Azuresun View Post
    There are d6's that have 1-3 twice. Otherwise, use a d4 and reroll 4's, or just, you know, talk to your group about which method you're using and use a d6.
    There are also those weird "dice" with odd number of sides, such as 3, 5, 7 etc., but those are exactly what I meant with taking extra effort to get one.

    Mind you, I gave my opinion. No amount of "reasoning" of how you can get around it will change my mind.
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  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhios View Post
    Because it's a non-standard die.

    Not everyone takes the extra effort to purchase an (both figuratively and physically) oddly shaped "die" to be able to roll exactly d3, and the d6 method is awkward at best. It's not hard, it's just annoying.

    Besides, if the system comes with a set of dice: 1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 1d10, 1d12, 1d20 and d%, then WHY do we need an abstract die to be rolled with some other die or dice? (granted, d% is close to being the same, but at least they made the effort to include a special die in the standard dice set just for that. d3 didn't get any of that courtesy).

    Plus, it's still argued over and over again after 40 years whether you should use a) 1,2 (1); 3,4(2); 5,6(3) OR b) 1,2,3 (1,2,3) and 4,5,6 (1,2,3).

    TL;DR: d3 is STUPID.
    What kind of lunatic would use that bolded method? I don't know about you, but I know I don't want to play in those sorts of tables
    Last edited by diplomancer; 2020-09-17 at 05:11 AM.

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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by diplomancer View Post
    What kind of lunatic would use that bolded method? I don't know about you, but I know I don't want to play in those sorts of tables
    Yeah, I'm sticking with 1 (3) 2 (1) 3 (3) 4 (2) 5 (1) 6 (2)

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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhios View Post
    Because it's a non-standard die.

    Not everyone takes the extra effort to purchase an (both figuratively and physically) oddly shaped "die" to be able to roll exactly d3, and the d6 method is awkward at best. It's not hard, it's just annoying.

    Besides, if the system comes with a set of dice: 1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 1d10, 1d12, 1d20 and d%, then WHY do we need an abstract die to be rolled with some other die or dice? (granted, d% is close to being the same, but at least they made the effort to include a special die in the standard dice set just for that. d3 didn't get any of that courtesy).

    Plus, it's still argued over and over again after 40 years whether you should use a) 1,2 (1); 3,4(2); 5,6(3) OR b) 1,2,3 (1,2,3) and 4,5,6 (1,2,3).

    TL;DR: d3 is STUPID.
    Not sure why there's argument over that. I have used both. I just make it clear before I roll which I'm using.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azuresun View Post
    There are d6's that have 1-3 twice. Otherwise, use a d4 and reroll 4's, or just, you know, talk to your group about which method you're using and use a d6.
    I have also used the d4, reroll 4s method.

    I just don't see what's so difficult about a d3.

    But, if it's really that big of a deal, buff the Barbarian a little bit by giving him a d4, instead.

  9. - Top - End - #69
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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by diplomancer View Post
    What kind of lunatic would use that bolded method? I don't know about you, but I know I don't want to play in those sorts of tables
    Quote Originally Posted by TigerT20 View Post
    Yeah, I'm sticking with 1 (3) 2 (1) 3 (3) 4 (2) 5 (1) 6 (2)
    You don't just have one of these sitting around?


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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    I can't recall if this was discussed already. Can Limited Wish be used to generate 5,050 gold for the warlock every 1d4 days via uses of Leomund's Secret Chest?

    In order for the spell to function, you need a 5,000g chest and a 50g replica. The duration of the spell is instantaneous. The ongoing use of the spell requires that you be able to touch the replica and store things inside the full sized chest.

    So does it just... make those items for you? So you can then turn around and sell them for a tidy income during your downtime?

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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Evaar View Post
    I can't recall if this was discussed already. Can Limited Wish be used to generate 5,050 gold for the warlock every 1d4 days via uses of Leomund's Secret Chest?

    In order for the spell to function, you need a 5,000g chest and a 50g replica. The duration of the spell is instantaneous. The ongoing use of the spell requires that you be able to touch the replica and store things inside the full sized chest.

    So does it just... make those items for you? So you can then turn around and sell them for a tidy income during your downtime?
    I imagine the intent is that it creates a chest and replica, but they have no value. Alternatively it would just work with *any* chest/replica of any value.
    Last edited by Dark.Revenant; 2020-09-17 at 04:41 PM.

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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    I have also used the d4, reroll 4s method.

    I just don't see what's so difficult about a d3.

    But, if it's really that big of a deal, buff the Barbarian a little bit by giving him a d4, instead.
    I'm not sure you'll get far asking for objective justification for something that's really just a matter of personal taste. There's a myriad of reasons why someone would object to a d3. One might just be simple aesthetics. An odd-numbered die feels weird amongst a set of evens. Most dice are Platonic solids, and back in the day there were people who objected to the d10 because it wasn't. Perhaps the mechanic behind the d3 isn't interesting enough to warrant the inclusion of its own special die, and would fit into the game better as a d4. By the same token, a number of existing mechanics might benefit from a d3 but the game has a certain structure to compensate for its nonexistence -- until now. We've been doing d6, halved (or whatever) for decades. Why is that no longer acceptable?

    All of these are valid opinions (note I'm not saying I subscribe to all of them, just describing...).
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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Luccan View Post
    Wow. WotC really hates Sorcerers. That "wild" magic table is just good across the board. I don't even think it's that appealing a subclass, the table is just so much nicer to the PC than the WM Sorc.
    You never saw the WotC memo for creating 5e classes?

    I think it went:

    1 - Martials must suck (unless they're a Paladin);
    2 - Sorcerers should be inferior to Wizards

    Thankfully whoever was responsible for the Battlemaster and the Echo Knight also missed it.

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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by heavyfuel View Post
    You never saw the WotC memo for creating 5e classes?

    I think it went:

    1 - Martials must suck (unless they're a Paladin);
    2 - Sorcerers should be inferior to Wizards

    Thankfully whoever was responsible for the Battlemaster and the Echo Knight also missed it.
    Well, the second one was created by someone outside the WotC design team...

    And come to think of it, the first one uses the mechanic all martials were planned to have at some point to make them better.
    Last edited by Luccan; 2020-09-17 at 09:02 PM.
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  15. - Top - End - #75
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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    I wonder if it would still work well if you DID use the Wild Surge table instead...

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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Adventurer View Post
    I wonder if it would still work well if you DID use the Wild Surge table instead...
    If you mean the Barbarian uses the Sorcerer table, not very well considering many of the options involve casting spells and restoring resources only Sorcerer's have.

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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by ProsecutorGodot View Post
    If you mean the Barbarian uses the Sorcerer table, not very well considering many of the options involve casting spells and restoring resources only Sorcerer's have.
    To be clear, "many" here means five results on a table of 50, so one in ten.

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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Adventurer View Post
    To be clear, "many" here means five results on a table of 50, so one in ten.
    There are actually 14 results that do nothing for the Barbarian, as they cannot cast any of the spells while raging (the reason why their other 3rd level feature is no longer "cast detect magic" by the way) cannot recover sorcery points, and by proxy have no spell slots or spells to cast as a bonus action instead of an action.

    Coincidentally, this makes it more likely that the Barbarian will have a bad result than if then Sorcerer rolled on the table, as almost all of these results were a neutral or positive effect for the Sorcerer.
    Last edited by ProsecutorGodot; 2020-09-18 at 09:43 AM.

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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by ProsecutorGodot View Post
    There are actually 14 results that do nothing for the Barbarian, as they cannot cast any of the spells while raging (the reason why their 3rd level feature is no longer "cast detect magic" by the way) cannot recover spell points, and by proxy have no spell slots or spells to cast as a bonus action instead of an action.

    Coincidentally, this makes it more likely that the Barbarian will have a bad result than if then Sorcerer rolled on the table, as almost all of these results were a neutral or positive effect for the Sorcerer.
    Personally, if the rules did say to use the Wild Sorcerer table, I'd interpret that as specific overriding general and the line about "casting" a spell being more "this spell is cast, in the passive voice" despite the way it's worded (which I assume is in part, at least, for brevity). I doubt a sorcerer is really stopping and going through the conscious act of casting a fireball centered on himself when he rolls that result on the table, and thus I would also rule that a Barbarian who somehow got that result from raging with wild magic would just have his rage explode into the fiery ball of anger around him. Maybe it could be counterspelled, but I wouldn't require the sorcerer or the barbarian to actually be able to take a casting action. (I mean, other than the fact that the sorcerer doesn't even get to roll on the table if he hasn't cast a spell in the normal way.)

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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    Personally, if the rules did say to use the Wild Sorcerer table, I'd interpret that as specific overriding general and the line about "casting" a spell being more "this spell is cast, in the passive voice" despite the way it's worded (which I assume is in part, at least, for brevity). I doubt a sorcerer is really stopping and going through the conscious act of casting a fireball centered on himself when he rolls that result on the table, and thus I would also rule that a Barbarian who somehow got that result from raging with wild magic would just have his rage explode into the fiery ball of anger around him. Maybe it could be counterspelled, but I wouldn't require the sorcerer or the barbarian to actually be able to take a casting action. (I mean, other than the fact that the sorcerer doesn't even get to roll on the table if he hasn't cast a spell in the normal way.)
    I still think it's generally worse for the Barbarian even if you're only adding 5 results to the list of bad rolls. Remember that those 5 were also all "good" rolls for the Sorcerer, so the Barbarian's odds on the table are primarily bad/neutral while the Sorcerers are neutral/good.

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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by ProsecutorGodot View Post
    I still think it's generally worse for the Barbarian even if you're only adding 5 results to the list of bad rolls. Remember that those 5 were also all "good" rolls for the Sorcerer, so the Barbarian's odds on the table are primarily bad/neutral while the Sorcerers are neutral/good.
    Not going to argue, there. Just was making a point about the reason I wouldn't specifically allow inability to cast to prevent a result on the table.

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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    Personally, if the rules did say to use the Wild Sorcerer table, I'd interpret that as specific overriding general and the line about "casting" a spell being more "this spell is cast, in the passive voice" despite the way it's worded (which I assume is in part, at least, for brevity). I doubt a sorcerer is really stopping and going through the conscious act of casting a fireball centered on himself when he rolls that result on the table, and thus I would also rule that a Barbarian who somehow got that result from raging with wild magic would just have his rage explode into the fiery ball of anger around him. Maybe it could be counterspelled, but I wouldn't require the sorcerer or the barbarian to actually be able to take a casting action. (I mean, other than the fact that the sorcerer doesn't even get to roll on the table if he hasn't cast a spell in the normal way.)
    Agreed. For example, even if the wild surge was triggered by a bonus action spell which makes it illegal to cast Fireball, the wild mage would cast Fireball on self anyway.

    The main change the Barbarian needs is better editing: rename the 3rd level feature from "Wild Surge" to "Wild Magic" to avoid confusion, and add a note in the text about where to find the Wild Magic table, as in "roll on the Wild Magic table below to determine the magical effect produced." One extra word "below" to avoid a lot of potential confusion with the PHB wild surge table.

    WotC needs to hire a good editor.
    Last edited by MaxWilson; 2020-09-18 at 10:11 AM.

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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    I'd just say wildmagic always triggers.
    I like "roll on the d20 whenever when a leveled spell slot is cast" But, you could go and roll that d20 also whenever a cantrip is cast, but it takes a special group of players to roll with that in their group.
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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    I like "roll on the d20 whenever when a leveled spell slot is cast" But, you could go and roll that d20 also whenever a cantrip is cast, but it takes a special group of players to roll with that in their group.
    I like "don't bother rolling the d20, ever, but always trigger if Tides of Chaos recharge would apply." Seriously, there's no point in that d20 unless you attach more effects to it than RAW does.

    As a rule variant to fix the boredom, it might be interesting to say "always roll the d20 and apply the original table from Tome of Magic to it" though. Instead of using a fixed value from the table to denote wild surges (e.g. at level 20, rolling a 9 always triggers a Wild Surge on the original table), just have the player call out a number before rolling. If the die roll matches, that's a surge, in addition to the level adjustment effect.

    But rolling a d20 that does nothing 95% of the time per RAW is a waste of table time.
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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxWilson View Post
    But rolling a d20 that does nothing 95% of the time per RAW is a waste of table time.
    Has anyone experimented with increasing the target value by 1 for each spell level after the 1st? Cast at 9th level, surge on 1-9.
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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by EggKookoo View Post
    Has anyone experimented with increasing the target value by 1 for each spell level after the 1st? Cast at 9th level, surge on 1-9.
    That's good, I also like to have a build up of chaos inside the sorcerer. Like if you cast a spell (w/o tides of chaos proccing), roll and don't get a 1, the next time you roll it'll proc on a 1 or 2. Whenever it does cause a surge you reset to 1.

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