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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    On the up side, one of the easiest optional rules in the world to write for WotC would be an alternate wild magic chart for sorcerers.

    Also, is anything stopping a group from using the Wild Barbarian's chart for the Wild Magic Sorcerer?

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    On the up side, one of the easiest optional rules in the world to write for WotC would be an alternate wild magic chart for sorcerers.

    Also, is anything stopping a group from using the Wild Barbarian's chart for the Wild Magic Sorcerer?
    With only 8 options its kinda boring. I wouldn't be too happy with that if I were playing one. At the very least make iot a d12, but preferably d20.
    Last edited by Boci; 2020-09-16 at 11:39 AM.
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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    Also, is anything stopping a group from using the Wild Barbarian's chart for the Wild Magic Sorcerer?
    Probably just that it would make WM Sorc even worse. At least the current list has awesome possibilities like Conc-less Haste, recouping all spent Sorc points and regaining spell slots.

    Granted bad things can happen, but I feel that’s a necessary part of playing a WM Sorc: you take the risk of the bad/ineffective for the chance at awesome.

    I doubt anyone plays Sorc for the chance of a 1d6 Damage, BA, Ironman chest beam. Even more doubt for the ability to throw whatever is in your hand.

    It’s okay as an “you’ll always get something extra when Raging” ability; but it’s horrible as your “the DM finally let you roll for a surge” Sorc ability.
    Last edited by RSP; 2020-09-16 at 11:42 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Oh lord, not this again... a d3....
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  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhios View Post
    Oh lord, not this again... a d3....
    There's something that unsettles me about the Genie Patron, I admit, but I also admit I can't put my finger on what that is.

    But I am very, very confused why the notion of a d3 bothers so many people.

    Use a d4 if you feel like it's that onerous; the boost in power isn't huge and will please your barbarian player.

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    But I am very, very confused why the notion of a d3 bothers so many people.
    Hey now, you may not think adding a d3 mechanic is a big problem. And it may not be, in and of itself. But that's a slippery slope to d5, d7, and the dreaded dπ!

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by EggKookoo View Post
    Hey now, you may not think adding a d3 mechanic is a big problem. And it may not be, in and of itself. But that's a slippery slope to d5, d7, and the dreaded dπ!
    I dunno, I don't see a problem with those.

    More seriously, the d5 is no worse than the d3. I've used d8s for d7s and d6s (the latter when I couldn't find a d6 fast enough), just re-rolling any illegal numbers.

    And I actually liked the dψ.

  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Until I got to the second page, I was assuming that the Barbarian rolled on the Wild Surge table...

  9. - Top - End - #39

    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Adventurer View Post
    Until I got to the second page, I was assuming that the Barbarian rolled on the Wild Surge table...
    WotC needs to hire a good editor.

  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Kind of annoying the Barbarian is heavily incentivized to get far away from his team before he activates his rage. If you've got other party members on the frontlines, they're going to get annoyed when you necro-splode on them.

    I'm interested in the new "Control Warmer" spell. I assume it works like Animate Objects, but is specific to blankets, mittens and jammies.

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    I dunno, I don't see a problem with those.

    More seriously, the d5 is no worse than the d3. I've used d8s for d7s and d6s (the latter when I couldn't find a d6 fast enough), just re-rolling any illegal numbers.

    And I actually liked the dψ.
    Everybody gangster until the DM makes you roll a dEuler's Constant.

  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    Kind of annoying the Barbarian is heavily incentivized to get far away from his team before he activates his rage. If you've got other party members on the frontlines, they're going to get annoyed when you necro-splode on them.
    Why's that? None of the effects on the table harm the party unless the barbarian wants to for whatever reason.

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Damon_Tor View Post
    Kind of annoying the Barbarian is heavily incentivized to get far away from his team before he activates his rage. If you've got other party members on the frontlines, they're going to get annoyed when you necro-splode on them.
    Nope. "Each creature of your choice that you can see within 30 feet of you..."

    Nothing on this wild magic table can accidentally cause a negative effect for your allies. There is an incentive to be within 30 feet of enemies when you start raging, but that shouldn't be a problem for barbarians.

  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Personally I'm looking forward to a Dao warlock with repelling blast and grasp of hadar. At level 5 that's 2 pushes and 1 pull. With a spike growth, that's 2d10+6d4 damage, quite a pretty little combo. I'm still thinking on names, currently I have "the cheese grater"

  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Valmark View Post
    Why's that? None of the effects on the table harm the party unless the barbarian wants to for whatever reason.
    Quote Originally Posted by Connington View Post
    Nope. "Each creature of your choice that you can see within 30 feet of you..."

    Nothing on this wild magic table can accidentally cause a negative effect for your allies. There is an incentive to be within 30 feet of enemies when you start raging, but that shouldn't be a problem for barbarians.
    Ah, you are both correct. Argument withdrawn.

  16. - Top - End - #46

    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by micahaphone View Post
    Personally I'm looking forward to a Dao warlock with repelling blast and grasp of hadar. At level 5 that's 2 pushes and 1 pull. With a spike growth, that's 2d10+6d4 damage, quite a pretty little combo. I'm still thinking on names, currently I have "the cheese grater"
    I'm not following your math. Each push/pull is 10', and it's 2d4 per 5', so shouldn't that be 2d10+12d4 (41)?

    It comes online at level 3 too, at which point it is 1d10+8d4 (25.5). Not bad for a level 3 PC, although IMO it actually works better if you have someone else cast the Spike Growth so you can start grating on round 1.
    Last edited by MaxWilson; 2020-09-16 at 04:48 PM.

  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    I misremembered how much the push/pull was, this is even better!


    And I'm excited to have it he available on a single character, my friends aren't usually interested in the nature classes.

  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Well, yeah, this'll be out-of-context.

    "Come on, touch the furry. Touch it! The moment your are level 6, you'll be touching some furries' moon. You know you'll like it.
    What do you want. More constricts? More webbing? A bit of a pounce? I'll do that for you....
    OMG. You're naughty and dark and magical. C'mon sugar, give me some magic. I'll let you have all my berries, just to yourself. Or maybe we just stealth right out of here? Or make you a big-bad-big boy! If you're good at this, I can call in some of my friends to help.... "

    Wild Magic Barb + Moon Druid at lvl6 is hilarious :)

    (in context: undispellable, non-concentration, not magical +d3's to restrain-on-hit is BS good for that little duo for the moon druid. For both of them, so the Barb can shine. Or druid spell slots for the Barb, for good berries, super-hide PwT, enhance ability for barb skill advantage, or a spare conjure animals to prone/ grapple/ restrain enemies for the Barb is amazing as well. But, I mean, role-playing it totally wrong is fun too)
    Last edited by sambojin; 2020-09-16 at 08:09 PM.

  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    More using proficiency for low level features, I see.

    Whelp. Leaning into bad precedent is very on brand for 2020.

    1 in 8 chance of giving a barbarian a ton of temp hp. No bueno. I have *opinions* about barbarians and temp hp.
    I also amn't a big fan of extraneous dice rolling. Slows things down too much. I'm also not a fan of introducing a d3, in general, but I suppose barbarians are the only ones to use d12s... I wish they'd just leaned into d12s.
    The barbarian is very not my cup of tea, from a design perspective, but I guess it takes all sorts. Though I will take this as permission to remove all the bad stuff from the wild sorcerer's table.

    The 10th level feature of the genie warlock is... not going to play nice with variant rest mechanics, and for a class that's all about short rests is a surprisingly heavy ability. Nothing world shattering, I suppose, to have a shorter short rest once a day.

    Limited Wish should be a Sorcerer only spell; seeing it on something other than sorcerer annoys me. So I'll take this as permission to add it to the Sorcerer's spell list as a 7th level spell.

    Really not digging the proficiency for low level features as a consistent theme.

  20. - Top - End - #50
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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    I must be blind. What "proficiency for low-level features" are people talking about?

  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by micahaphone View Post
    I'm still thinking on names, currently I have "the cheese grater"
    How about Millstone? Since it requires a Dao patron and all.

  22. - Top - End - #52
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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    I must be blind. What "proficiency for low-level features" are people talking about?
    Duration for the genie-lock is 2 hours per proficiency bonus I believe.
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  23. - Top - End - #53
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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Luccan View Post
    Wow. WotC really hates Sorcerers*. That "wild" magic table is just good across the board. I don't even think it's that appealing a subclass, the table is just so much nicer to the PC than the WM Sorc.
    *I'm aware most people despise Wild Magic Sorcerer due to the negative effects on it's list, so it makes sense to change the mechanic, but it still really sucks to see its schtick co-opted by another class and remove the entire downside. Everything Sorcerers get WotC wants to give to someone else. But better.
    I find myself repeating this often: I don't think the bad part of Wild Magic has anything to do with the contents of the table. A majority of the table is either neutral or beneficial effects, there are very few actively harmful effects and out of the ones that are only an even smaller handful of them are actually damaging. For reference, there's about 9 negative effects and only 2 of them actively damage you (or your allies) when they occur. For comparison, there are roughly 19 positive effects. The rest are superficial (leaning on positive) but serve the purpose of refreshing your Tides of Chaos.

    However that's just the mechanical perspective. Nobody wants that surge that finally happens to immediately throw a dud or a fireball on you.

    The worst part of Wild Magic Sorcerer (which is also removed for this Barbarian) is the DM controlled aspect. It makes more work for your DM, you'll probably have to pester your DM about Wild Magic Surges because you have literally no control over when you make one. Our Wild Magic Sorcerer is very lucky that our DM enjoys that kind of macro activity.

  24. - Top - End - #54
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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by ProsecutorGodot View Post
    I find myself repeating this often: I don't think the bad part of Wild Magic has anything to do with the contents of the table. A majority of the table is either neutral or beneficial effects, there are very few actively harmful effects and out of the ones that are only an even smaller handful of them are actually damaging. For reference, there's about 9 negative effects and only 2 of them actively damage you (or your allies) when they occur. For comparison, there are roughly 19 positive effects. The rest are superficial (leaning on positive) but serve the purpose of refreshing your Tides of Chaos.

    However that's just the mechanical perspective. Nobody wants that surge that finally happens to immediately throw a dud or a fireball on you.

    The worst part of Wild Magic Sorcerer (which is also removed for this Barbarian) is the DM controlled aspect. It makes more work for your DM, you'll probably have to pester your DM about Wild Magic Surges because you have literally no control over when you make one. Our Wild Magic Sorcerer is very lucky that our DM enjoys that kind of macro activity.
    Oh, I totally agree with you (it may in fact have been you I first saw point it out), but there's no denying that whatever the actual cause for dissatisfaction, the majority of people seem to blame the negative effects. It's certainly the most vocal group. And thus, it makes sense that WotC has made a wild magic table that's really more of random benefits table. And given no hint they plan to help WM Sorcs in any way.
    Last edited by Luccan; 2020-09-16 at 08:51 PM.
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  25. - Top - End - #55
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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by loki_ragnarock View Post
    Limited Wish should be a Sorcerer only spell; seeing it on something other than sorcerer annoys me. So I'll take this as permission to add it to the Sorcerer's spell list as a 7th level spell.
    Why should it be a Sorcerer only spell? Also note that a sorcerer will be getting much more mileage out of it, being able to cast it consistently every day (twice at 20th).

    Plus making it a spell means opening it to Bards too (dunno if that's a concern).

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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    I must be blind. What "proficiency for low-level features" are people talking about?
    Spoiler: Bottled Respite (1st Level)
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    You can remain inside the
    vessel up to a number of hours equal to twice your
    proficiency bonus.


    Spoiler: Genie's Wrath (1st Level)
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    Once during each of your turns
    when you hit with an attack roll, you can deal extra
    damage to the target equal to your proficiency
    bonus.


    Spoiler: Elemental Gift (6th Level)
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    In addition, as a bonus action, you can give yourself
    a flying speed of 30 feet that lasts for 10 minutes,
    during which you can hover. You can use this bonus
    action a number of times equal to your proficiency
    bonus, and you regain all expended uses when you
    finish a long rest.


    Sanctuary Vessel runs off Bottled Respite, so technically that one, too.
    Last edited by Edea; 2020-09-16 at 09:10 PM.
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  27. - Top - End - #57
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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Just theory-crafting a Firbolg Genie Warlock from Tasha's "Totally AL legit" choose-your-own-adventure stat rules. For lots of short-rest magic, fire-resistance at lvl6 (any other genie subclass is better for spells, but fire-resistance is pretty good, and Warlock has a heavily front loaded "pick this, it's good" amount of spell choices anyway), and patron/ invocation/ pact stuff from the Genie (Efreeti) Warlock lvls. +2 Cha, +1 Con stats, a bit of extra damage and disguise and invis and talky stuff. And free 3x10min non-magic flying per day as well (with 240lb dump-stat carry/ lift) at 6th, and you get more of it later too.

    At 10th lvl, have a free-short-rest per day, to refresh all your warlock slots and firbolg short-rest spells. Because.

    +1 lvl6 spell every d4 long rests at 14th. So, every couple of days. Except, it can be anything. As long as that spell only takes one action to cast. Doesn't say you can't ask your genie to up-cast something either. So, yeah, a limited wish spell. Seems kinda handy. One of the best lv14 features I've seen, for any class, ever (right up there with Illusionist). No components either, so if it's quick and expensive, you have a business regardless. Your genie will totally understand (and probably require some of the profits). But letting your patron make you an occasional demi-god is a pretty good class feature at 14th.

    You probably won't feel like there's a lack of things to do, on any given rest. Even at lvls 1-6.

    Tasha's Preview + Tasha AL Stat rules looks fun for heaps of builds. Free DLC!
    Last edited by sambojin; 2020-09-16 at 10:04 PM.

  28. - Top - End - #58
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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by ProsecutorGodot View Post
    The worst part of Wild Magic Sorcerer (which is also removed for this Barbarian) is the DM controlled aspect. It makes more work for your DM, you'll probably have to pester your DM about Wild Magic Surges because you have literally no control over when you make one. Our Wild Magic Sorcerer is very lucky that our DM enjoys that kind of macro activity.
    The easiest thing a DM can do is give the power back to the player. That is, let the player decide when they want to use the Wild Magic table.

    If the DM wants some form of control still, he can veto the Wild Magic so a sorcerer still can't quite predict it but the burden of it activating no longer falls onto the DM. It's something I've been tinkering with as a DM and it's been fun so far.
    Last edited by Asisreo1; 2020-09-16 at 09:53 PM.

  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Asisreo1 View Post
    The easiest thing a DM can do is give the power back to the player. That is, let the player decide when they want to use the Wild Magic table.

    If the DM wants some form of control still, he can veto the Wild Magic so a sorcerer still can't quite predict it but the burden of it activating no longer falls onto the DM. It's something I've been tinkering with as a DM and it's been fun so far.
    I'd just say wildmagic always triggers. Its too unpredictably to be exploited IMO, and even the advantage from Tides of Choas isn't spammable enough to be too powerful.

    In one setting I've considered having all sorcerors who didn't attend the nation magic academy to have wildmagic in addition to any other archetype they choose. Its only for one setting, not a universal houserule, but no it isn't optional.
    "It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
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    So please kill yourself and save this land,
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  30. - Top - End - #60
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    Default Re: Tasha Preview, Wild Magic Barbarian and Genie Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    I'd just say wildmagic always triggers. Its too unpredictably to be exploited IMO, and even the advantage from Tides of Choas isn't spammable enough to be too powerful.

    In one setting I've considered having all sorcerors who didn't attend the nation magic academy to have wildmagic in addition to any other archetype they choose. Its only for one setting, not a universal houserule, but no it isn't optional.
    I feel like the Wild Magic sorcerer is the greatest gotcha to houserulers in the PHB. I can't say what you and I do are houserules, because they technically aren't. We, as the DM in our games, are (preemptively) choosing when the Wild Magic Surge activates which means we're always following RAW unless we do something drastic.

    Uh, that aside. I've also began considering having the activation of Wild Magic also deal with a dice roll that gets more unstable the more powerful the magic is. Perhaps something like having the Sorcerer activate Wild Magic on a roll of 10 or higher using 1d10+spell's level.
    Last edited by Asisreo1; 2020-09-16 at 09:58 PM.

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