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  1. - Top - End - #691
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    Default Re: The Mandalorian Season 2

    That's another thing that someone else touched on but I felt could be refined into a more direct point...


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    In regards to "why didn't they just get off the bridge"... where would they go? Even if they could get to escape pods, that just means they're in an even less defendable position, while the darktroopers have thrusters on their soles so they can just follow the escape pods out into space and destroy them there. That is absolutely not an ideal solution.
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  2. - Top - End - #692
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Mandalorian Season 2

    Spoiler: Escape Pods
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    Agreed, being stuck in the escape pods would have been a far worse situation.

    And we know this for a fact, because of S1:E2 of Clone Wars, in which clone survivors of the Malevolence are hunted down in the wreckage by battle droids, who are humming and tapping their metal fingers as they break open the escape pods and vent the clones into space.

  3. - Top - End - #693
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    Default Re: The Mandalorian Season 2

    Spoiler: Escapes
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    Raises an interesting question of whether they would cut open a pod with Gideon inside.

    But that's why you call Boba for pickup first. They're on the bridge, they have communications equipment.

    On the other hand was they don't necessarily know the Darktroopers can break down the blast doors.

    They had one Darksaber, one beskar spear, and three people in Mandalorian armour. Getting bottled up in a small space is probably the worst tactic available.

    Those Clonetroopers only lived that long because they abandoned ship in the first place, not a great example.


  4. - Top - End - #694
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    Default Re: The Mandalorian Season 2

    So, I'm very late to the party with the Mandalorian as I really don't watch tv at all these days. With the way the internet exploded after the S2 finale I finally motivated myself to watch it. For context, I'm a huge geek but never been a serious SW fan. I enjoy the world but haven't followed any of the stuff after the prequels because frankly, they were mediocre at best and none of the later stuff piqued my interest at all.

    Overall impression, the Mandalorian was okay. I don't regret having spent the time to watch it, but it certainly didn't thrill me. It felt very much like a knockoff Firefly that relied on muppets and fandom instead of strong story and great characters. I think some of my issues are innate to the SW feel, the number of times fully armored troopers are knocked out/taken out of the fight by being punched or thrown to the ground was really grating.
    Spoiler
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    Yet mando got his helmet literally pounded into the wall by a dark trooper but wasn't even significantly staggered by it?
    The "physics" or rather lack thereof bothered me more than once.
    Spoiler
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    Nanny droid exploding with enough force to wipe out the trooper squad while standing in lava, but doesn't throw any lava onto the boat 30 feet behind him? Wut?
    I was more than willing to just overlook that and enjoy it for what it was while just acknowledging that those aspects are not to my taste. Throughout the entire series it really felt like Mando suffered from... I'm not sure what to call it (there's probably a trope but I don't expose myself to enough media to bother learning all the trope stuff) action-hero-itis? Whatever it is where the character has to get beaten up or display staggering incompetence before he can be a badass. In pretty much every episode. That got old fast. Then came the S2 finale. Hoo boy.

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    That finale was just painful. I'm sure people will label me all kinds of horrible things for even daring to think this, but the 'girl power' bit was just awful. It's overplayed, completely unneeded and felt very forced. I will admit I was often looking at my second monitor throughout the series as it just wasn't compelling enough to keep my attention full time, but what happened to the male mandalorian from the trio? Did a miss something where they explained why he was missing from the gathering when Mando went to them for help? Without that bit of information it felt like they just ignored that he ever existed because it would mess up the girl power squad. For the Record Kara Doon was probably my favorite character in the series, I just hated the forced girl squad crap.

    The whole Dues Ex Machina (which was a recurring theme through the series, how many times would Mando have died without sudden precision timed rescue from others?) with Luke at the end was just horrid and unsatisfying. The Dark Troopers were awful to start with, many of the droids earlier in the series were very nimble, fluid and deadly while the DT were largely clunky and slow. I understand the inevitable implacable feeling they were trying to present, but it didn't work, at all. At any rate, while they were clunky to start with they seemed to pretty much turn into target dummies with a total of 3 articulated joints as soon as Luke came on screen.


    Overall, I feel like The Mandalorian has inspired me! ... to go rewatch Firefly.
    A man who dies fighting with his principles intact dies in glory. To expect enemies to follow the same code of honor defiles that honor, reducing it to a set of arbitrary rules.

  5. - Top - End - #695
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    Default Re: The Mandalorian Season 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Warlawk View Post
    Overall, I feel like The Mandalorian has inspired me! ... to go rewatch Firefly.
    Given Firefly that IS an impressive feat given the state Star Wars has been in since episode 8 was released!

  6. - Top - End - #696
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    Default Re: The Mandalorian Season 2

    Finally got to watch this episode. Thankfully a friend gave me a heads up on Friday to avoid anywhere I might see spoilers since I wasn't going to be able to watch over the weekend.

    Spoiler: So about that ending....
    Show
    I'm of mixed mind. When Grogu was trying to contact other Jedi a few eps ago, Luke was the elephant in the room. It would feel odd if he wasn't involved, but obviously involving him from a production standpoint is problematic.

    What I'm wondering is, if Disney is going to keep poking at the Rebellion/New Republic Era, when are they just going to go ahead and recast Han, Luke and Leia?

    I have to say, as much as Hamill is a great actor, he really added nothing here. With the CGI layering over him and I'm assuming digitally altering his voice, there just wasn't any room for an actual performance. And the CGI de-aging hasn't gotten any less off-putting since Rogue One and Rise of Skywalker.

    Just do it Disney. Either keep OT and Near-OT projects away from the old characters and keep the focus on new corners of the galaxy or recast the Big Three. Pull the Band-Aid and be done with it.

  7. - Top - End - #697
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    Default Re: The Mandalorian Season 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Dire_Flumph View Post
    Spoiler: So about that ending....
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    What I'm wondering is, if Disney is going to keep poking at the Rebellion/New Republic Era, when are they just going to go ahead and recast Han
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    2018, apparently.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  8. - Top - End - #698
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    Default Re: The Mandalorian Season 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Spoiler
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    2018, apparently.
    Spoiler: Ehhh....
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    (Edit: Pun on the Actors name in the spoiler tag not intended. Not meaning to be disrespectful) When Alden Ehrenreich shows up for a Disney Plus series or a cameo in another series I'll strike him off the list. I'd be fine with him taking over the role more permanently to be sure, but I'm not sure I see him returning outside of a Solo sequel. I also didn't have Lando listed because with the upcoming series they either got Donald Glover or Billy Dee to return or they have recast that one already.
    Last edited by Dire_Flumph; 2020-12-21 at 04:14 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #699
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    Default Re: The Mandalorian Season 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Dire_Flumph View Post
    Finally got to watch this episode. Thankfully a friend gave me a heads up on Friday to avoid anywhere I might see spoilers since I wasn't going to be able to watch over the weekend.

    Spoiler: So about that ending....
    Show
    I'm of mixed mind. When Grogu was trying to contact other Jedi a few eps ago, Luke was the elephant in the room. It would feel odd if he wasn't involved, but obviously involving him from a production standpoint is problematic.

    What I'm wondering is, if Disney is going to keep poking at the Rebellion/New Republic Era, when are they just going to go ahead and recast Han, Luke and Leia?

    I have to say, as much as Hamill is a great actor, he really added nothing here. With the CGI layering over him and I'm assuming digitally altering his voice, there just wasn't any room for an actual performance. And the CGI de-aging hasn't gotten any less off-putting since Rogue One and Rise of Skywalker.

    Spoiler: All the cool kids are doing spoiler tags now
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    The CGI de-aging can be done better and has been done better by any number of amateur deepfake attempts on youtube. Take a look, ones that people are doing up over the course of a weekend are quite impressive, and the ones where they replace Tarkin-with-deepfake Peter Cushing on Rogue One are pretty solid.

    You are right, though, the problem gets down to the fact you can stick Luke's face on someone else but you can't get the facial muscles to move in sync, or at least you need more time or a better budget to make that happen. Although the performance was dead anyway; I get that Luke is now a fully focused Jedi and so a lot calmer than he was in the OT, but he came across to me as being on mood stabilisers.

  10. - Top - End - #700
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    Default Re: The Mandalorian Season 2

    Now that we got the mega cameo itch scratched, hopefully season 3 can go back to being a real story-driven story and stop making the Star Wars universe feel as big as Luxembourg.
    "Like the old proverb says, if one sees something not right, one must draw out his sword to intervene"

  11. - Top - End - #701
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    Default Re: The Mandalorian Season 2

    Now imagining a Rogue Squadron tv series depending on the success of the movie despite fears they might ignore the books occasionally with cameo's by Trapper Wolf & co (maybe even Poe as a kid too!).

    Hopefully they'll do that to the other new series they're releasing instead!

  12. - Top - End - #702
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    Default Re: The Mandalorian Season 2

    Spoiler: Relevant
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  13. - Top - End - #703
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    Default Re: The Mandalorian Season 2

    So, I'd been more or less spoiled on what was going to happen in the last episode (my fault), but...

    Did anyone else think the final music was weird? Like, it was a bunch of strings, instead of the more spaghetti-western feel that had been there throughout the series?
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  14. - Top - End - #704
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    Default Re: The Mandalorian Season 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    So, I'd been more or less spoiled on what was going to happen in the last episode (my fault), but...

    Did anyone else think the final music was weird? Like, it was a bunch of strings, instead of the more spaghetti-western feel that had been there throughout the series?
    That scene wasn't spaghetti western, though. I felt the music fit the scene.
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  15. - Top - End - #705
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    Default Re: The Mandalorian Season 2

    Spaghetti western can have all the strings they want for emotional scenes. Not everything is duel at high noon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  16. - Top - End - #706
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    Default Re: The Mandalorian Season 2

    @Warlawk

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    I think the actual issue here is the "walk forward and shoot the bad guys dead" choreography. It's pretty stupid and it's done quite a bit. On the one hand we see the mandos use their jetpacks to ambush some troopers, and Fennec hides behind a crate. On the other hand, if any of the heroes are firing their weapon they are automatically shielded from enemy fire and don't have to use cover or other tactics.

    Stuff like that is annoying but I look past it. The other big one for me is the stormtroopers wearing armor that literally protects them from nothing. Pretty stupid as well.

  17. - Top - End - #707
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    Default Re: The Mandalorian Season 2

    In the final confrontation, when they're waiting for the bad guys, I sorta yelled at the screen "Why are none of you taking cover?" They do it so often. The stormtroopers are better at taking cover.
    The Cranky Gamer
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  18. - Top - End - #708
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    Default Re: The Mandalorian Season 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    In the final confrontation, when they're waiting for the bad guys, I sorta yelled at the screen "Why are none of you taking cover?" They do it so often. The stormtroopers are better at taking cover.
    Din (and possibly the other two Mandalorians) have an excuse, that armor is probably better cover than they could find anyway.

    Fennec though, and especially Cara? Good grief, her weapon jams and she tries to fix it in the open while people are shooting at her? Then uses it as a club? You have a sidearm! We just saw you shoot troopers with it!

  19. - Top - End - #709
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    Default Re: The Mandalorian Season 2

    So anyway, having seen nothing but the Boba Fett fight scenes and then Luke's appearance, I decided to binge the whole two seasons over a few nights.

    Basically, a B on the story, A on the vision.

    Spoiler
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    A on the vision mainly because, to my surprise, this show actually gave me a sense of actual wonder. Haven't had that from Star Wars for a long time now. It took a while to register, but from dead trees still being chowed down on by megasaur-type creatures to a tank containing a lizard species' spawn (not to mention the fact they naturally went to an ocean world planet as the best place to grow up) this show had more actual inspiring worldbuilding than all of the sequel trilogy put together. It managed to convince you that, yes, there are actual people living in these worlds, they're not just overscaled sets that people emote against. Maybe that was because it had enough time, or enough wit, to have at least a few slower moments, times when you could actually take some of the scope and scale in. And maybe my eye's getting too old, but the special effects looked pretty damn solid for a non-blockbuster budget. Choice of colour palette was also pleasantly restrained: very washed out, ANH-Tatooine style through the whole lot, no garish crayon colours like we've been getting since Revenge of the Sith.

    B on the story mainly because, well, it was serviceable and kept me moving on to the next episode without being edge-of-your-seat stuff. They managed to squeeze a tear out of my cynical, judgy eyes at the end there. But it wasn't like the story had any truly massive twists while it was going, and most of the devices were pretty well-worn ones out of Westerns and Kurosawa films. No really, really deep dives into anyone's character really, but at least they cast people who didn't make my eyes bleed every time they came on screen, and they didn't shove Current Social Issues in my face even if the Mandalorian conveniently sets it up that only chicks can shoot straight on important rescue missions.

    Cast was pleasantly restrained in the performances. Nobody really chewed the scenery, everyone gave a pretty measured go at it, no huge emoting anywhere. Temuera Morrison didn't try to upstage anyone and came off looking better for it, that ... uh ... inverted carrot shape he had going on him did convince me it was hard muscle rather than anything else. (Loved the leitmotifs, especially when we got to Boba Fett and Mando's whistly theme was replaced with good old Australian didgeridoo.) I never got into Clone Wars, so Ahsoka and Bo-Katan are near-strangers to me, but everyone gave enough of a performance that I didn't feel like someone was a DLC inclusion after the fact or that I needed to see any of their 'home' works to understand what the character was or what their motivations were. (EDIT: Also, Gina Carano is thiccccc...)

    When all put together in close viewings the non-complexity of the storyline is apparent, it's actually not that different to a videogame of main plot getting put off by sidequests. Overall the show I thought was just a little too restrained for its own good, but that's the stoic aesthetic they were going for and the show obviously was going out very tentatively so as not to annoy the hell out of any section of the overly critical fanbase - whether it likes The Last ****pie or not - that it's selling to.

  20. - Top - End - #710
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    Default Re: The Mandalorian Season 2

    So, a couple of follow-up items:

    1. Excellent little article about that mortar trooper, written by a mortar platoon commander in the US Marines. Incisive and hilarious commentary on the professionalism (or lack thereof) of the mortar trooper’s performance.

    2. Sadly, Gina Carrano will not be returning to the Mandalorian or anything else on Disney+. Can’t be discussed any further here, but “Gina Carrano fired” will get you the whole story.

  21. - Top - End - #711
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    Default Re: The Mandalorian Season 2

    Without commenting on the actress or current events, Cara Dune (the character) seems like she should be easy to recast or write out of the show. I personally hope they go with the former, as we need more badass women in major sci-fi properties. People had no trouble accepting a new War Machine, right?

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  22. - Top - End - #712
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    Default Re: The Mandalorian Season 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Without commenting on the actress or current events, Cara Dune (the character) seems like she should be easy to recast or write out of the show. I personally hope they go with the former, as we need more badass women in major sci-fi properties. People had no trouble accepting a new War Machine, right?

  23. - Top - End - #713
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    Default Re: The Mandalorian Season 2

    ^ Exactly

    In fact, I want a one-liner exactly like this one when they do!
    Last edited by Psyren; 2021-02-11 at 10:51 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Quote Originally Posted by gogogome View Post
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  24. - Top - End - #714
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    Default Re: The Mandalorian Season 2

    Also not commenting on the reasons for her being fired or real world politics: merely Star Wars-wise, I'm in fact relieved. I always disliked her character, it felt exceedingly campy in a way that imho clashed with the feeling and tone that the Mandalorian is (mostly) trying to go for. The announcement of a Rangers series that was apparently going to be starred by her made me groan mentally.

    \end{hot-take}
    Last edited by Clertar; 2021-02-11 at 11:04 AM.
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  25. - Top - End - #715
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    Default Re: The Mandalorian Season 2

    As much as I enjoyed Cara Dune, she's easily written out of The Mandalorian, since she already had a steady gig before Mando brought the band back together. I have a feeling the next season will focus on Mandalorian politics anyway, so no particular need for an ex-drop trooper.

    On the new Rangers show...eh, one of the less interesting options from the upcoming slate. I don't mind seeing the trials and travails of the fledgling New Republic, but I would have much preferred a show set in earlier periods of galactic history.

    And as long as I'm dreaming, I'd love a series that gives us a look at the earliest days of the Jedi, exploring the origins of the Order when the Force was being first explored. That's probably the single most interesting period for me; but alas, no obvious character tie-ins, so likely to remain undelved.

  26. - Top - End - #716
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    Default Re: The Mandalorian Season 2

    Bit rough for the actress especially as the lead seemed to have said the same thing previously with no sanction - but life isn't always fair.

    On the character kindof happy she is gone, she always struck me as 'just as good as the lead but doesn't need armour' which was kindof annoying.

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    Default Re: The Mandalorian Season 2

    Quote Originally Posted by dancrilis View Post
    Bit rough for the actress especially as the lead seemed to have said the same thing previously with no sanction - but life isn't always fair.

    On the character kindof happy she is gone, she always struck me as 'just as good as the lead but doesn't need armour' which was kindof annoying.
    Not going into the why she was fired either, but the one reason I'm a bit sorry to see her go is that her body type was very unique among Hollywood actresses, and it was refreshing to see a feminine action character allowed to be that muscular.

    The character herself? Otherwise nothing special and really easy to write out of the series.

  28. - Top - End - #718
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    Default Re: The Mandalorian Season 2

    Originally Posted by Dire_Flumph
    ...her body type was very unique among Hollywood actresses, and it was refreshing to see a feminine action character allowed to be that muscular.
    Agreed. Very different from pretty much every other female character in mainstream SF, and yet believable in context of the story.

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    Default Re: The Mandalorian Season 2

    I'm going to buck a few posts here and say I actually love the character of Cara and hope she sticks around (recast, obviously). Getting a salt-of-the-earth perspective on Alderaan, the New Republic, and all the fallout from the war was useful.

    Quote Originally Posted by dancrilis View Post
    On the character kindof happy she is gone, she always struck me as 'just as good as the lead but doesn't need armour' which was kindof annoying.
    She's as good or better at some things (hand-to-hand/short range), but I don't think she's "as good as the lead" when it comes to things like sniping, piloting, navigating the underworld, languages, etc. Mando has a lot of competencies that put him firmly in the main character slot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    Agreed. Very different from pretty much every other female character in mainstream SF, and yet believable in context of the story.
    Bobbie "Gunny" Draper from The Expanse says hi, that's pretty mainstream and she is quite muscular.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Quote Originally Posted by gogogome View Post
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  30. - Top - End - #720
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    Default Re: The Mandalorian Season 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post

    Bobbie "Gunny" Draper from The Expanse says hi, that's pretty mainstream and she is quite muscular.
    And in a more realistic/consistent way with the character. There's a type of muscular body getting more and more common in Hollywood that sits way past "character does a lot of physical stuff", and you start wondering when they go to the gym, how many pounds of chicken they eat every day and what PEDs they take
    "Like the old proverb says, if one sees something not right, one must draw out his sword to intervene"

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