The Mandalorian Season 2

[Hopeless]

Regarding hyperspace tracking

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In Rebels the Grand Inquisitor used a missile with a tracking pod allowing him to track them though hyperspace.

I presumed that following the Empire's downfall the New Republic that has never comes across as either very mentally competent or trusting installed a variant of this in all their ships to allow them to keep track thus avoiding what the rebel alliance did to the Empire happening to them.

Yes I know people say they wouldn't but they did threaten Princess Leia upon discovering who her biological father was despite her war record.

It wouldn't stretch anything for Snoke or whatever that was to make use of details like that to coerce the New Republic into that action so having full access to that system his version could keep track of all New Republic ships too expecially the ones given to Leia's Resistance organisation.

Thus what Finn had to do was drop a computer virus in the Supremacy network to erase the information they had on the New Republic ships not switch it off or disable it as that virus would filter throughout the First Order fleet rendering that tracking system useless at least long enough for them to get away and organize a counter attack

Sorry I keep trying to introduce logic into the ST I really should know better now its over

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but at least the good news is that unless the Empire installs a tracking device in the Razorcrest it can't be tracked through hyperspace...oh dear.

[Sapphire Guard]

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Mando is very familiar with such tracking, and knows best how to avoid it. In particular, he keeps moving frequently, and may have some countermeasures. This doesn't entirely address it, because the show doesn't show what those countermeasures might be, but if anyone would be familiar with the bounty hunter tracking system, it would be bounty hunters. It also doesn't seem that non-bounty hunters have access to that system.

Dubious. He's tracked down multiple times by other bounty hunters while on the move, and we know the Imperials had at least one, because Dr. Pershing uses one. The Imps are also squatting in the bounty hunting HQ town.

Mando has a lot of that kind of writing.

Spoiler: scale

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As a matter of physics, time goes gooey (to use the technical term) when you introduce things like 'lightspeed' so it really depends on where you're going, what ship you're using, what's in the way, and so on.

Any number of Clones is not enough to form a galactic army (Lucasfilm would have to invent a new form of maths to find a number big enough, and it still wouldn't work.) 'Units' is a necessary dodge. Giving hard numbers to the Star Wars fanbase is a mistake, because they'll do the maths and then complain. There never was any established scale, because there can't be.

In terms of physics, Mando going to a neighbouring system at sublight without taking years is equally stupid, but the people rolled with it.

[Peelee]

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Dubious. He's tracked down multiple times by other bounty hunters while on the move, and we know the Imperials had at least one, because Dr. Pershing uses one. The Imps are also squatting in the bounty hunting HQ town.

Mando has a lot of that kind of writing.

I have to agree (well, I don't know about "a lot", but still), but it's entertaining enough and good enough in other ways that I can ignore that. I realize this isn't the case with everyone, but that's how it is for me.

[Mechalich]

Sorry I keep trying to introduce logic into the ST I really should know better now its over

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but at least the good news is that unless the Empire installs a tracking device in the Razorcrest it can't be tracked through hyperspace...oh dear.

There's a difference between being tracked through hyperspace and being tracked while in hyperspace.

In Star Wars a tracking device can send a signal as to a ship's location from anywhere in the galaxy to anywhere in the galaxy (assuming its a HoloNet signal, but all the military grade stuff is) functionally instantly. In fact, this kind of signaling is a normal part of civilian shipping operations in that each and each starship is supposed to ping the local Bureau of Ships and Services beacon every time it arrives in a new system to both announce its presence and to receive necessary updates to hyperspace navigation. This is one of the reasons why the Razorcrest gets in trouble in S2E2 - his inactive transponder means his ship isn't making the regular reports it's supposed to be making.

The average hyperspace trip involves dropping out of hyperspace at regular intervals to make course corrections (this is almost never shown because it takes seconds at most), allowing for a tracking device to regularly update on a target's location as they move from one sector to the next. But because it's possible for a ship to always dash off in a new direction in hyperspace and there's no way to tell how far they've gone in that direction until they drop out it's extremely difficult to catch up with a ship. This is why, in ESB, Vader orders his squadron to disperse along the Falcon's 'last known trajectory' in the hopes of potentially finding them in deep space somewhere.

Tracking a target while in hyperspace, as happens in TLJ, allows for a pursuer to move within the target as opposed to only being able to jump-chase them from last known location to last known location using conventional tracking.

[dancrilis]

New Epidode:

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... there is a lot to like here but frankly I didn't like it.

"This stays on the ship" and then he puts it in his pocket and takes it with him I think sums up the epidode for me.

He just left his ship wipe open seemingly, Ahsoka Tano seemed very kill happy against both the guys at the beginning but more importantly against some guy who had done nothing to her walking in the woods.

I don't like lightsabers colliding off metal as if they are solid swords - the beam should have been blocked from extending not blocked from from continuing, this is supported as when she was fighting the Mandalorian it wasn't as if she was hitting him with metal pipes.
Ignoring that a normal person with a spear versus a Jedi (even with nothing) shouldn't be a fight - the Jedi has magic powers to end that as it starts.

The child was in the Jedi temple and being trained? That seems odd.
Ahsoka Tano doesn't know about the members of the Jedi council such as Yaddle? That seems odd.
The Child can communicate somewhat telepathically so provide clear understanding of what has occured in his life? That seems off.

Is Grand Admiral Thrawn going to be brought into it or is it merely a name drop - because the series don't seem to really need him in it, and how does Ashoka even know he is alive?

The more I think about it the more this episode is kindof annoying me - but they are all somewhat minor complaints in what I know should have been an enjoyable enough episode.

As a very minor nitpit - sometimes Ahsoka seemed to look like herself (from The Clone Wars) and sometimes she looked somewhat off which was somewhat disconcerting (if she had looked right the entire time that would have been good, but if she had just consistently looked off I would have just gotten used to it - instead they seemed to keep changing it), but this might just be my eyes playing tricks on me.

Overall - I think I will likely be kinder in my analysis as I think back on it (in the same way I am with the prequel trilogy) there was good there just felt it was poorly delivered (except for the lightsaber thing which is more fundamentally annoying).

[Hopeless]

I agree

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It also felt off to me.

As for the name reveal why didn't they just go with Moff Gideon instead?

I mean she was just a Magistrate and not another Moff so why would she answer to someone higher ranked when there's already a villain for the series?

That can't be the only settlement on Corvus so why highlight the destruction and focus only there when they could have expanded revealing she hasn't been waging a war on a single settlement but been working to free the outlying settlements and this is just the climax to her operation here?

I wish I was wrong and she wasn't alone.

The fight with the gunslinger was idiotic, he should have just asked to wait to see who won and then just left peacefully after all there was no way Ahsoka could have been beaten by that Magistrate and I don't care if they're showing up Beskar to be invulnerable to lightsabers which it shouldn't have been.

I am not a fan that she immediately attacked Din instead of talking, it wouldn't have stretched anything that she noticed Baby Yoda and curiosity led her to talk first rather than attack like she did.

Her actions make her more likely to fall than Groggu I think that's what she called Baby Yoda?

And I wished those spoilers had been wrong about Baby Yoda's past.

A pity but it could have been far worse, but still not wasn't the weakest episode so far.

Apologies I spoilered what I could.

[Berserk Mecha]

Spoiler: Chapter 13

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Grogu? Seriously? That's the name that they're going with? Well, okay, I guess. But I think we all agree that it would've been better if they had revealed the name way back in episode 2. And it wouldn't have been that difficult to do. Just give the child a name tag or a necklace with his name inscribed on it or something. Or have one of the imperials mention his name back in episode three. The only reason they know of his existence is because they probably looked through the temple's records after Anakin sacked it. It's going to take folks some time to adjust after everyone's been calling him Baby Yoda for a year, now.

And Thrawn? I could've sworn he was killed at the end of Rebels. But maybe I'm just misremembering. Still seems strange to have Thrawn when we already have Gideon as the main antagonist.

And Ahsoka doesn't look as bad in live action as I feared she would. It's kind of difficult to make that blue and white thing on her head looks real but they did the best that they could.

I agree that a jedi vs someone with a spear shouldn't have been a real fight. But I could live with it for dramatic effect. Was it established previously that beskar can block lightsabers? I'm trying to remember if it came up in the cartoons.

I really liked the look of Corvus. I thought it would've looked more like Endor after Bo Katan said that it was a forest planet. But the burnt forest fire look gives it a unique appearance.

[Spacewolf]

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The spear vs lightsaber fight definitely felt wrong.
I'm guessing that thrawn is going to be part of an Asoka or other spin off that's why they went with him rather than Gideon. Or at least they are testing the waters for it.
Asoka behaves more like a dark jedi than anything else I'd agree on that as well. That's probably why the villains were so comically one note, they needed someone who could be killed without fridge logic coming in.
It did feel very Samurai/western which fits star wars I guess.

[Palanan]

LOVED this episode.

Spoiler: Except...

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Except nothin’. Easily my single favorite of the series so far.

All the elements came together, both open and subtle—the encounter and alliance, the atmosphere, all the look and details. In particular:

The music. There were a couple interesting new items here, including a rather festive variation on the Mandalorian theme.

The mood. A perfect blend of industrial desolation with the spooky forest of folklore.

The balance. We had both a standard quick-draw showdown and an almost poetic lightsaber duel. I especially loved the fact that beskar is lightsaber-resistant, in keeping with older canon.

The light touches. I loved the white owl in the forest, a subtle reference to the white bird that flew off after Ahsoka’s battle with Darth Vader in Rebels. And, while I’m not overly fond of lothcats, it was a nice touch to see one here.

The backstory; or, how to reveal a little while keeping your options open. Clearly Ahsoka knows more than she’s telling, and we still don’t know if Grogo is a clone, a scion or something else entirely.

And “raised at the Jedi Temple” without ever being mentioned before certainly suggests a degree of secrecy, and his departure before the fall of the Order speaks to a whole other chapter in his past.

My only disappointment is this may be our only glimpse of Ahsoka for this season, if ever. My first impression was that Rosario Dawson was a little bland, but after watching the whole episode she seems seasoned, even balanced.

But I do have to wonder—at what point did Ahsoka decide she was a Jedi again? In the last season of Clone Wars she was still very much on the outside, so I wonder how she found her way back.

Originally Posted by Berserk Mecha

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And Thrawn? I could've sworn he was killed at the end of Rebels. But maybe I'm just misremembering.

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You’re misremembering, since Thrawn was specifically not killed, but hurled by Ezra and the Spacewhales into unknown regions.

Originally Posted by Berserk Mecha

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Was it established previously that beskar can block lightsabers?

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Yes, in some of the EU novels, most notably the Karen Traviss Clone Commando series.

Pretty sure it came up elsewhere as well, but can't call it to mind right now.

Originally Posted by Hopeless

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I am not a fan that she immediately attacked Din instead of talking....

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It makes perfect sense that the Magistrate would stop sending masked goons and hire a professional to deal with her little Jedi problem. Ahsoka was almost certainly expecting this, and the fact that it was a Mandalorian, of all things, would only further convince her that Din had been hired to eliminate her.

Which, if you recall, is exactly what the Magistrate tried to do, so Ahsoka wasn't really wrong. We knew that Din had other reasons for talking instead of fighting, and we also knew that he never actually agreed to the Magistrate's proposal, but neither Ahsoka nor the Magistrate would have known that up front.

Originally Posted by Spacewolf

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I'm guessing that thrawn is going to be part of an Asoka or other spin off that's why they went with him rather than Gideon. Or at least they are testing the waters for it.

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Since Dave Filoni wrote this one, almost certainly he’s teasing a followup to Rebels, in which Ahsoka finally chases down Ezra and Thrawn, allowing us to learn where they’ve been for the past number of years.

[Wraith]

I went into this episode blind - I've never watched Clone Wars or Rebels, so the sub-plot with Ahsoka was lost on me and everything I know is what I've seen in this episode.

I have to say, the story itself was fine. The usual cliche that we've come to expect in such shows, especially after Episode 1 with the Tuskan allies and then later with the other Mandolorians and even the Republic pilots saving Din from the spiders - 'enemies' turning out to have a lot more in common than they thought. Not going to set the world on fire, but it was done well and without the usual drama that can make it drag.

The strongest highlight for this episode was without a doubt the cinematography and the music score. Every shot was gorgeous (Twitter has compared it to the classic monochrome Samurai movies, even showing shots from the show side-by-side with those from Zatoichi and the likes to show how close it is) and the music sting that hit when the Child caught the ball made me shiver, it was so close to perfectly done.

The only down-side was that my wife managed to beat me at the rousing game of Hey, It's That Guy! which we usually play since realising that Clancy Brown was on the show - I thought it was Peter Weller, but she correctly realised that it was Michael Biehn which is hardly a bad thing.

More of this please, thank you.

[Petrocorus]

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The spear vs lightsaber fight definitely felt wrong.

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Yeah. I wonder if Morgan Elsbeth is supposed to be a force-user herself, because else it should have been a curb-stomp.

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It did feel very Samurai/western which fits star wars I guess.

Star Wars has always been a perfect blend of SF, Fantasy, western, and some elements of samurai movies.

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The backstory; or, how to reveal a little while keeping your options open. Clearly Ahsoka knows more than she’s telling, and we still don’t know if Grogo is a clone, a scion or something else entirely.

And “raised at the Jedi Temple” without ever being mentioned before certainly suggests a degree of secrecy, and his departure before the fall of the Order speaks to a whole other chapter in his past.

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I felt a great disturbance in the story, like if a million of plot holes had suddenly opened and were blatantly ignored.
I do hope they will explain this with a solid story.

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But I do have to wonder—at what point did Ahsoka decide she was a Jedi again? In the last season of Clone Wars she was still very much on the outside, so I wonder how she found her way back.

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In Rebels, she still insisted she wasn't a jedi.

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You’re misremembering, since Thrawn was specifically not killed, but hurled by Ezra and the Spacewhales into unknown regions.

Spoiler: Rebels & Mandalorian

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Assuming they survived, which would raise some questions since the windows of the ship's bridge were broken.
Ahsoka leave with Sabine to try to find Ezra at the end of Rebels.
Which mean we could possibly see Sabine in live-action too.

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Yes, in some of the EU novels, most notably the Karen Traviss Clone Commando series.

Pretty sure it came up elsewhere as well, but can't call it to mind right now.

It does still feel like a stretch.
Is that even happen before in NuCanon?

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It makes perfect sense that the Magistrate would stop sending masked goons and hire a professional to deal with her little Jedi problem. Ahsoka was almost certainly expecting this, and the fact that it was a Mandalorian, of all things, would only further convince her that Din had been hired to eliminate her.

Which, if you recall, is exactly what the Magistrate tried to do, so Ahsoka wasn't really wrong. We knew that Din had other reasons for talking instead of fighting, and we also knew that he never actually agreed to the Magistrate's proposal, but neither Ahsoka nor the Magistrate would have known that up front.

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That's right, but she should have been able to sense his lack of aggression or the presence of the child.

[Mechalich]

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Yeah. I wonder if Morgan Elsbeth is supposed to be a force-user herself, because else it should have been a curb-stomp.

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Non-force users fighting effectively in melee duels with Force users is a long-established fact of Star Wars by this point. Tolerance for it varies, but at this point it is just a thing that happens and we all have to roll with it.

[Petrocorus]

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Non-force users fighting effectively in melee duels with Force users is a long-established fact of Star Wars by this point. Tolerance for it varies, but at this point it is just a thing that happens and we all have to roll with it.

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This is true, but it is always usually explained by training and equipment. When Jango fought and won against Obi-Wan, he used several weapons, his whip, his jet pack, his arm-claw-thingy*, and decades of training and experience and probably Obi-Wan's own overconfidence.

I don't see this with Elsbeth. She has one spears Ahsoka could easily have force-pulled. And if i understood the dialogue correctly, she's mostly an industrialist, probably with some training. I don't know how she would be a match for Ahsoka.
At first i thought Ahsoka was restraining herself not to kill Elsbeth before getting her answer.

*i really don't know how to call in English this thing he used to stop his fall.

[Dire_Flumph]

Really enjoyed it. The show is becoming more out of what I wanted in a sequel follow-up to Star Wars. Some thoughts:

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Grogu? Yeah, pop culture is sticking with "Baby Yoda".

I can't hold it against Rosario, but as much as I thought she did great in the role, I kept thinking it looked wrong that she couldn't move as fluidly as I was used to seeing Ahsoka move. Again, I'm not holding it against her, just kept bugging me.

Nice to get some solid background on the Chi-(sigh) *Grogu*. No major jaw drops, but some nice confirmation of what we could piece together so far. Very nice to see that it was confirmed that he had training in the Force pre-Empire, among the sins of the sequel trilogy the whole "Jedi don't need training, they're just superheroes now" was one of the ones that bugged me most. Also nice to confirm that appearances aside, he isn't quite the infant/toddler that he appears. I'm not sure he equates to a level of human child development, and I'm okay with that. Also good confirmation that he is in fact in danger of Dark Side slippage, and obviously Ahsoka would have reason to not want to take responsibility for that.

Ok, was not expecting the Thrawn namedrop, but I'm assuming that's just a tease for Rebels fans. I can't imagine they're going to follow up that show in the Mandalorian, and I don't think it would be a good idea to. I've been confident that they will tie up Ezra's fate eventually, but I'm certain it will be in a book release. Just don't see a Rebels movie showing up on Disney+. But I would be okay with a live action Ahsoka series, C'mon Disney!

I for one was perfectly okay with the Magistrate/Ahsoka fight. I've never been of the opinion that non-Jedi should have no chance in a straight up fight, and I dislike when the Jedi are amped to ridiculous levels of unbeatable. One could just assume she was a highly trained fighter wielding a lightsaber resistant weapon she was very proficient with and leave it there.

Good grief, I was scratching my head trying to figure out when I last saw Michael Biehn in anything. He looks good, but he has certainly aged since I saw him last. (Had to look it up, last time I saw him in live-action was in Grindhouse 13 years ago. Amusingly enough Rosario Dawson was also in that movie.)

So we've seen Boba, had our Jedi quest and met Ahsoka. That's all the pre-season spoilers I can recall. Think we're in uncharted waters now, and I like that. I really have no idea where the series is headed from here story-wise, and I am solidly in for the ride.

[Peelee]

Loved the episode, confused as all get-out over the discussion.

Spoiler: The Child

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Why would there be any more speculation over whether he's a clone? What makes him any more likely to be a clone than Ashoka, or Din Djarin, Ezra, or literally any other character? Why not wonder about any given character of being a clone? Further, what's with the confusion over him being trained at the Jedi Temple? That covers how he knows how to manipulate the Force in rudimentary ways. It's frankly more silly to imagine that all the Jedi know all the younglings and vice versa than it is to imagine that he simply wasn't a very publicized youngling, especially since he likely wouldn't come into his own until most of the Jedi living at that time were dead. It's a perfectly sensible explanation.

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My only issue is that they never actually call it that and just stick with beskar. C'mon, writers, variety is the spice of life! Change it up a little! Anyway, yeah, it's always been resistant to lightsabers. This is just re-canonizing it (and honestly maybe not even that much, I can't say for sure but I'm pretty certain that in Clone Wars and Rebels, Beskar armor goes against lightsabers successfully.

Also, lightsabers have also always worked as swords, not flashlights. They clash against each other, they bounce off armor that is hardened against them (heck, this was established in 1981, it shouldn't be surprising in 2020!). Lightsabers don't just get shorter when they encounter lightsaber-resistant things. The way they're portrayed in the show is how they've always worked.

Spoiler: The name

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What's wrong with Grogu? And why would they have dropped it in Episode 2? Nametags et al would have gotten significantly more complaints, and rightfully so - it wouldn't be organic. They way it was revealed was organic. Nothing wrong with that. Plus, anyone who wants to keep calling him Baby Yoda? That option is still available.

Spoiler: The other name

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My read is that she's clearly looking for Ezra. They disappeared together, so learning more about Thrawn means she learns more about Ezra. Thrawn does not seem to be the primary antagonist in The Mandalorian, Gideon does. That doesn't mean that Ahsoka cares about Gideon at all, and frankly, I fully welcome a series where some characters aren't assed to care about the big bad solely because he's the one who is against the main characters. Other characters have their own lives, and them living those lives outside how how useful that is to the main character(s) is great storytelling and worldbuilding.

Spoiler: The Jedi

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She never claims to be a Jedi. Other people call her a Jedi, sure, but that doesn't make her one. Just as the Magistrate was under the impression that the Mandalorian was going to kill the Jedi, so to are all the people under the impression that she is, in fact, a Jedi. Characters can be wrong. Heck, that's fully why she refuses to train him at the end - because she's not a Jedi! She sends Mando to Tython to help him find a Jedi to train the child.

Spoiler: One notable thing I disliked

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Imean, aside from the obvious "Ahsoka has more abilities than just swordfighting" because that's an issue throughout Star Wars whenever a Force user goes against a non-Force user... "I've seen what happens when a fully trained Jedi has fear. I've seen what happens to the best of us". Bull**** the best of us, Anakin was horribly broken the entire time and even as his Padawan, Ahsoka sure as hell got a full and clear image of who he was. Believing he was a good man? Sure. Believing he was a great Jedi? No problem with that. Believing he was the best of us? Someone get C-3PO, we need to accuse someone of delusions of grandeur.

Spoiler: One notable thing I loved

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Motha****in Tythooooooon! As much as I wanted a proper KOTOR 3, SWOTOR was still pretty awesome. Glad Tython is getting some love after Ahch-To.

ETA:

Spoiler: My biggest issue with the series hands-down

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It's so dark. Why is it so dark? Even super-sunny Tatooine episodes are remarkably dark. Outside. In the sun. In the double suns. Stop being so visually dark, Mandalorian. And also lots of other TV shows and movies currently. It's going to be a super-dated look as it ages.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Petrocorus
…his arm-claw-thingy*….

*i really don't know how to call in English this thing he used to stop his fall.

Neither do we.

There’s no obvious term for it, other than “retractable blades in armor worn by a paranoid and overprepared interstellar bounty hunter.”

Originally Posted by Petrocorus

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Is that even happen before in NuCanon?

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Well, there’s the energy club (officially the Z6 riot control baton) which one of the First Order troopers used to fight Finn in TFA. That blocked a lightsaber blow well enough, and my impression was that it was a hybrid weapon, with a durable core that absorbed some of the strike. That could just be my own interpretation, though.

Somewhere in the dim ancient mists of the EU, yea verily back in the 90s, Luke mentioned fighting a weapon that was part physical and part energy which gave his lightsaber fits. I think it was one of the mid-90s EU novels, and Luke was referencing something even earlier in Star Wars canon of the time.

Point being, there's a lot of strange materials and tech in the galaxy, and lightsabers aren't completely unstoppable. I personally like that.

Originally Posted by Petrocorus

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That's right, but she should have been able to sense his lack of aggression or the presence of the child.

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My guess—and this is only a guess—is that Grogo has survived thus far by suppressing his connection to the Force (apart from very recent events), and is able to go dark in the presence of Force-sensitives.

This is at least possible, because in one of the EU novels this was given as the reason why Palpatine could be sitting with a roomful of Jedi and not ping as a Force-user himself. And we know from [a certain second movie in a certain recent trilogy] that [a certain reclusive Jedi master] was able to cut himself off from the Force.

So, my guess is that Grogo is able to hide in plain sight, as it were, by concealing his connection to the Force. Just a guess, based on a single viewing of the episode.

Originally Posted by Dire_Flumph

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I've never been of the opinion that non-Jedi should have no chance in a straight up fight, and I dislike when the Jedi are amped to ridiculous levels of unbeatable. One could just assume she was a highly trained fighter wielding a lightsaber resistant weapon she was very proficient with and leave it there.

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Indeed. In her line of work it’s not wise to leave all the fighting to someone else, so I have no problem with her skill with that one weapon.

And I agree that simply being a Jedi shouldn’t be an automatic win in a fight. If it were, the Jedi would have eliminated the Mandalorians long ago. I don’t mind the Jedi wading through endless ranks of battle droids, but I’m fine with there being plenty of people that can give them real headaches on occasion.

Originally Posted by Peelee

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She never claims to be a Jedi.

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No, but she never denies it either, which feels like a different state of being from where we’ve seen her before.

I don’t recall the exact quote, but I’m pretty sure she said “I’m no Jedi,” or words to that effect, at some point during her run in Season 7 of Clone Wars. She was definitely still conflicted about the Jedi at that point, and that conflict seems to be missing here.

Originally Posted by Peelee

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Heck, that's fully why she refuses to train him at the end - because she's not a Jedi!

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My read was that she doesn’t want to train him because of his fear, which she worries will send him down the same path as Anakin. I don’t think it’s her own competence at training which she questions, only the Child’s emotional readiness for training at this given moment.

Originally Posted by Peelee

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Believing he was the best of us?

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It’s been twenty-five years since she served with him, and in that time the horror of what he finally became may have contrasted ever more strongly in her mind with who he was before. That may not make logical sense, but emotions are another matter.

Originally Posted by Peelee

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Even super-sunny Tatooine episodes are remarkably dark. Outside. In the sun. In the double suns.

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First episode of this season seemed pretty bright to me.

As for the double suns, my main disappointment is that we never got to see a Flammarion effect.

[Petrocorus]

Loved the episode, confused as all get-out over the discussion.

Spoiler: The Child

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Why would there be any more speculation over whether he's a clone? What makes him any more likely to be a clone than Ashoka, or Din Djarin, Ezra, or literally any other character? Why not wonder about any given character of being a clone? Further, what's with the confusion over him being trained at the Jedi Temple? That covers how he knows how to manipulate the Force in rudimentary ways. It's frankly more silly to imagine that all the Jedi know all the younglings and vice versa than it is to imagine that he simply wasn't a very publicized youngling, especially since he likely wouldn't come into his own until most of the Jedi living at that time were dead. It's a perfectly sensibleexplanation.

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I think people raise this hypothesis because of how rare this race is, and so they assume Grogu could be a clone of Yoda.
This is also why it raises questions about his presence in the Temple. Such an exceptional child's presence would hardly go unnoticed and unmentioned. Hence the hypothesis of secrecy, shadow stuff.

Spoiler: Mandalorian iron

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My only issue is that they never actually call it that and just stick with beskar. C'mon, writers, variety is the spice of life! Change it up a little! Anyway, yeah, it's always been resistant to lightsabers. This is just re-canonizing it (and honestly maybe not even that much, I can't say for sure but I'm pretty certain that in Clone Wars and Rebels, Beskar armor goes against lightsabers successfully.

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I hardly remember instances of metal armor so blatantly blocking lightsaber.
I remember Kanan's shoulderpad blocking one light stroke of lightsaber, but the situation was different and Kanan was trying to dodge.
I don't thing i remember other on-screen instances, if you do, i'd appreciate the pointers.

In fact, i have another question for you unrelated to this episode.
My knowledge of Legends is limited. Do you know if jet packs have always allowed such an efficient flight?
I only remember the Bounty Hunter video game and the Star Wars D6 RPG, and IIRC, in both games the jet-pack only allowed some kind of very big super-jump.
I was quite surprised to see people actually flying in Rebels.

Spoiler: The Jedi

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She never claims to be a Jedi. Other people call her a Jedi, sure, but that doesn't make her one. Just as the Magistrate was under the impression that the Mandalorian was going to kill the Jedi, so to are all the people under the impression that she is, in fact, a Jedi. Characters can be wrong. Heck, that's fully why she refuses to train him at the end - because she's not a Jedi! She sends Mando to Tython to help him find a Jedi to train the child.

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She tended to denied quite strongly being a Jedi. She doesn't in this episode.
Maybe she's just tired of denying it and let people roll with their assumptions.
Maybe she's more at peace now with what the Jedis did to her.

I wonder though if she had any talk with Luke?

Spoiler: One notable thing I disliked

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Imean, aside from the obvious "Ahsoka has more abilities than just swordfighting" because that's an issue throughout Star Wars whenever a Force user goes against a non-Force user... "I've seen what happens when a fully trained Jedi has fear. I've seen what happens to the best of us". Bull**** the best of us, Anakin was horribly broken the entire time and even as his Padawan, Ahsoka sure as hell got a full and clear image of who he was. Believing he was a good man? Sure. Believing he was a great Jedi? No problem with that. Believing he was the best of us? Someone get C-3PO, we need to accuse someone of delusions of grandeur.

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In her defence, she was a teenager (14 to 16 or 17 during the war), he was her super-skilled teacher. And he was nice and very protective of her. She clearly admired him. So her perception of him was certainly not that clear and objective.
And Anakin fooled everyone to a degree, Yoda, Mace, Obi-Wan obviously, and himself.

[Mechalich]

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I can't hold it against Rosario, but as much as I thought she did great in the role, I kept thinking it looked wrong that she couldn't move as fluidly as I was used to seeing Ahsoka move. Again, I'm not holding it against her, just kept bugging me.

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I think there's a couple of things going on here, since several people have mentioned it. One: it's impossible to make the montrals move with the character in the same way they do in animation when it's a physical headpiece made of styrofoam. That's going to create a lot of tiny incongruities. Two: while Rosario Dawson looks pretty close to Ahsoka, we're used to seeing a character produced with a highly stylized digital animation presentation, which means that just having an actual person with the fully detailed human facial bone structure creates little differences, especially in close up. Three: Ahsoka's highly acrobatic dual-blade combat style from animation has to be incredibly difficult to try and reproduce and whoever did the stunt training for the fight scene went with something a little bit more manageable. Fourth: though Rosario Dawson is apparently a very game actress, and looking at the fight again it seems she definitely tried to do as much of it as possible herself, but she's not a match for Diana Lee Inosanto in terms of martial arts skill or stunt training. I think that if they do an Ahsoka series (which seems really likely at this point), she'll have a much better handle on it and be able to portray a more complex and mobile fighting style.

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In her defence, she was a teenager (14 to 16 or 17 during the war), he was her super-skilled teacher. And he was nice and very protective of her. She clearly admired him. So her perception of him was certainly not that clear and objective.
And Anakin fooled everyone to a degree, Yoda, Mace, Obi-Wan obviously, and himself.

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The Jedi Order as a whole also got really confused about priorities towards the end. Anakin absolutely was the best warrior in the Order, his Clone Wars record is positively ridiculous with how many accomplishments it contains. There really was a train of thought that Anakin was this incredible once-in-a-millennium being. The 'best of us' in terms of the PT Era Jedi probably falls on Obi-Wan, but he would have been a very rare first choice if you polled the Jedi Order at any point during the Clone Wars.

[Petrocorus]

Neither do we.

There’s no obvious term for it, other than “retractable blades in armor worn by a paranoid and overprepared interstellar bounty hunter.”

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Well, there’s the energy club (officially the Z6 riot control baton) which one of the First Order troopers used to fight Finn in TFA. That blocked a lightsaber blow well enough, and my impression was that it was a hybrid weapon, with a durable core that absorbed some of the strike. That could just be my own interpretation, though.

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That's an energy weapon, energy weapons, as force shields, have always been shown to be able to stop lightsaber

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Somewhere in the dim ancient mists of the EU, yea verily back in the 90s, Luke mentioned fighting a weapon that was part physical and part energy which gave his lightsaber fits. I think it was one of the mid-90s EU novels, and Luke was referencing something even earlier in Star Wars canon of the time.

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I do remember an old Marvel Star Wars comics of the 80s where Luke fight a woman with two whips, one being an energy whip and the other being a metallic one

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Point being, there's a lot of strange materials and tech in the galaxy, and lightsabers aren't completely unstoppable. I personally like that.

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I guess we'll have to roll with this.

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My guess—and this is only a guess—is that Grogo has survived thus far by suppressing his connection to the Force (apart from very recent events), and is able to go dark in the presence of Force-sensitives.

This is at least possible, because in one of the EU novels this was given as the reason why Palpatine could be sitting with a roomful of Jedi and not ping as a Force-user himself. And we know from [a certain second movie in a certain recent trilogy] that [a certain reclusive Jedi master] was able to cut himself off from the Force.

So, my guess is that Grogo is able to hide in plain sight, as it were, by concealing his connection to the Force. Just a guess, based on a single viewing of the episode.

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This is a good point. She still could have been able to sense Din's lack of aggressivity. It's just weird to see her attack on sight someone she's not sure he's an enemy. Given the situation she had reason to believe he was one, but it still felt a bit off.

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And I agree that simply being a Jedi shouldn’t be an automatic win in a fight. If it were, the Jedi would have eliminated the Mandalorians long ago. I don’t mind the Jedi wading through endless ranks of battle droids, but I’m fine with there being plenty of people that can give them real headaches on occasion.

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AFAIK The Jedi were eliminating the Mandalorian until they develop weapons, tools and fighting techniques specifically to fight the Jedi. I kinda remember the very first part of the jedi-mandalorian war going quite poorly for the mandalorians.

[Dire_Flumph]

Spoiler: One notable thing I disliked

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"I've seen what happens when a fully trained Jedi has fear. I've seen what happens to the best of us". Bull**** the best of us, Anakin was horribly broken the entire time and even as his Padawan, Ahsoka sure as hell got a full and clear image of who he was. Believing he was a good man? Sure. Believing he was a great Jedi? No problem with that. Believing he was the best of us? Someone get C-3PO, we need to accuse someone of delusions of grandeur.

Spoiler: Really?

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Yeah? That's pretty much Ahsoka in a nutshell. She was pretty hardcore into Anakin hero-worship and not entirely without reason. I mean, from her perspective he was the only one who had her back when the Jedi Council was throwing her to the wolves. And in season 2 of Rebels, even when it was painfully obvious who the Dark Lord pursuing them was, she was in pretty stark denial right up to the point she sliced his helmet off. In the last few episodes of Clone Wars, she didn't seem to have the slightest doubt that Anakin would resist the Sith's plot against him, only worried that they were targeting him.

"Anakin Skywalker, he was my master. He was powerful, rarely lost a battle. What would have surprised people was how kind he was. He cared deeply about his friends, and looked out for them until the end." (Rebels, S02:16). Does that sound like someone who had a full and clear image of a person who was horribly broken?

Edit: Forgot one quick thought about the episode:

Spoiler: Other Jedi

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Yes, Obviously Din isn't going to meet Luke, but pushing forward into a find the Jedi plot, it's going to get more and more conspicuous that no one will bring him up. I'm actually a little surprised Ahsoka didn't. To get around it either Din could be highly reluctant to head deep into New Republic Territory, or Luke could simply be unfindable if he's trying to gather students in secret.

[Petrocorus]

I have to ask.
In English, the plural of "jedi" is "jedi" or "jedis"?

[Dire_Flumph]

I have to ask.
In English, the plural of "jedi" is "jedi" or "jedis"?

Jedi

Hmm, apparently that was too short to submit.

Edit: There we go.

[Peelee]

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No, but she never denies it either, which feels like a different state of being from where we’ve seen her before.

I don’t recall the exact quote, but I’m pretty sure she said “I’m no Jedi,” or words to that effect, at some point during her run in Season 7 of Clone Wars. She was definitely still conflicted about the Jedi at that point, and that conflict seems to be missing here.

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I would imagine at some point she just got tired of saying "not a Jedi". Because, really, does it matter to most people? She's a Force-user with lightsabers who dislikes injustice and strives for peace and saving lives. What difference does it make that she technically doesn't have the badge anymore, especially now that they are pretty much defunct? Sure, some people would care, like Mando on his specific quest, but that's going to be rare and she's probably given up by then.

First episode of this season seemed pretty bright to me.

Compared to, say, a movie set on Tatooine? No, the brightness is cranked down a lot. It's a very visually dark show and I dislike that aspect.

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I think people raise this hypothesis because of how rare this race is, and so they assume Grogu could be a clone of Yoda.
This is also why it raises questions about his presence in the Temple. Such an exceptional child's presence would hardly go unnoticed and unmentioned. Hence the hypothesis of secrecy, shadow stuff.

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IS he so exceptional, though? His species ages in a way we cannot quite comprehend fully - he acts like a toddler, but also a very calm, patient toddler who understands what you say even if he doesn't obey. He's not really analogous to humans.

Regardless, though, we've also only seen two Togruta onscreen but nobody questions how rare they are or raises the idea that Ahsoka is a clone of Shaak Ti. Early on I liked the clone theory, considering Pershing had a cloner's insignia on his uniform, but now that we know the Jedi had him in their temple long before any of this happened, I think that theory's potential fell hard.

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I hardly remember instances of metal armor so blatantly blocking lightsaber.
I remember Kanan's shoulderpad blocking one light stroke of lightsaber, but the situation was different and Kanan was trying to dodge.
I don't thing i remember other on-screen instances, if you do, i'd appreciate the pointers.

Spoiler: No problemo!

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In fact, i have another question for you unrelated to this episode.
My knowledge of Legends is limited. Do you know if jet packs have always allowed such an efficient flight?
I only remember the Bounty Hunter video game and the Star Wars D6 RPG, and IIRC, in both games the jet-pack only allowed some kind of very big super-jump.
I was quite surprised to see people actually flying in Rebels.

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Yes, Clone Wars and Rebels both showed this (though not to the extent of keeping up with a ship like in S1E3, I don't believe).

Which, I should note, further makes me hate Abrams. Oh, hello there dialogue in Episode 9: "They can fly now?! They can fly now!" It's Star Wars you incompetent buffoon, flight not a technological marvel of engineering that would confound characters in this universe! GOD that ****in' guy...

[Petrocorus]

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IS he so exceptional, though? His species ages in a way we cannot quite comprehend fully - he acts like a toddler, but also a very calm, patient toddler who understands what you say even if he doesn't obey. He's not really analogous to humans.

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You do understand you actually made my point about the child being exceptional at least from a human and near-human PoV.

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Regardless, though, we've also only seen two Togruta onscreen but nobody questions how rare they are or raises the idea that Ahsoka is a clone of Shaak Ti. Early on I liked the clone theory, considering Pershing had a cloner's insignia on his uniform, but now that we know the Jedi had him in their temple long before any of this happened, I think that theory's potential fell hard.

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But Togruta have been established as a known species, and even if we saw only two named togrutas in the shows, the species is not rare and almost every one know about them.

Yoda's species is established as being extremely rare and most people don't even know what it is.
It's also the only one species AFAIK we know almost nothing about even in additional materials, books, etc.
It's not comparable.

Spoiler: No problemo!

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How could i forgot about this.

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Yes, Clone Wars and Rebels both showed this (though not to the extent of keeping up with a ship like in S1E3, I don't believe).

Which, I should note, further makes me hate Abrams. Oh, hello there dialogue in Episode 9: "They can fly now?! They can fly now!" It's Star Wars you incompetent buffoon, flight not a technological marvel of engineering that would confound characters in this universe! GOD that ****in' guy...

My question was more about the Legends EU. I don't remember that much flying in TCW. But i do remember being really astonished when i saw the episode "Supercommando" of Rebels, with a whole jet-pack chase.

[Peelee]

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You do understand you actually made my point about the child being exceptional at least from a human and near-human PoV.

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He's exceptional to us in the same way that hyperspace is. But to the people inhabiting the Star Wars galaxy? More specifically, to the people in the Jedi Order? More specifically, to the people in the Jedi Temple on Coruscant, a planet which has a population of 2,000,000,000,000, a third of which are non-human? Lot of "exceptional" creatures from a human PoV, but not so much from a galactic-cosmopolitan PoV.

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But Togruta have been established as a known species, and even if we saw only two named togrutas in the shows, the species is not rare and almost every one know about them.

Yoda's species is established as being extremely rare and most people don't even know what it is.
It's also the only one species AFAIK we know almost nothing about even in additional materials, books, etc.
It's not comparable.

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Fun fact, there are more characters of Yoda's species in the movies than there are of Togrutas. Yes, his species isn't really explored, but that's entirely a Lucas holdover because Lucas was weird. He's the same guy who green-lit Boba Fett being a guy named Jaster Mereel, and then he was Jaster Mereel's son, and then he was Jaster Mereel's adoptive son, and then he was Jaster Mereel's adoptive son's clone, and short version Lucas decided whatever he wanted whenever he wanted with complete disregard for what actually made sense or was consistent. ypda's species were the Whills until they weren't. Then they were a super secret race we know nothing of. Now? Hey, we might actually find out more about them and have it be different than what we've been used to because Lucas doesn't get to say "dance, monkeys" anymore.

How could i forgot about this.

Well, I wasn't going to say anything, but since you brought it up... shaaaaaaame!

My question was more about the Legends EU. I don't remember that much flying in TCW. But i do remember being really astonished when i saw the episode "Supercommando" of Rebels, with a whole jet-pack chase.

Ah, my bad. No, I don't think jeptacks were used all that much in the EU. Best bet would be when Boba Fett was training Jaina Solo, but even then I think they didn't really do much flight, if any. Could be wrong, that wasn't really a stellar series.

ETA: Though it was better than lightsaber helicopters.

Double ETA: Actually, there was a substantial amount of jetpack use in the Gall Spaceport level of the N64 game Shadows of the Empire, which was nowhere near as efficient. But that was entirely due to it being a game mechanic and not wanting it to be broken, similar to the blaster having infinite ammo but every shot depleted a power charge which made subsequent shots less powerful (the charge refilled fairly quickly depending on difficulty level, so it was only very rapid-fire shots that would really get you down into low-power shooting).

[dancrilis]

Spoiler: Mandalorian iron

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Also, lightsabers have also always worked as swords, not flashlights. They clash against each other, they bounce off armor that is hardened against them (heck, this was established in 1981, it shouldn't be surprising in 2020!). Lightsabers don't just get shorter when they encounter lightsaber-resistant things. The way they're portrayed in the show is how they've always worked.

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When Ahsoka attacked The Mandalorian it did not seem like she was attacking him with pipes that bounced off him, but with energy blades that hit him didn't cut and moved on - later in the episode however against a spear they did not move on in the same way.

I kindof think of them as plasma cutters (except encased in a specialist forcefield which deflects energy - so not entirely like plasma cutters), i.e the blade is more solid then a flashlight but it is not a solid blade.

I also thought at a few times in the fight at the end she should have merely turned one off and then back on again to actually benefit from fighting with two weapons but that is a different matter.

[Fyraltari]

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Honestly I a glad that the MAgistrate's master was thrawn because I spent the netire episode dreading it be Snoke/Sidious. Also this may mean we get a proper Pelleaon in Disney Canon, and that makes my day. I am unsure wether thay're going to have Thrawn in the show. Maybe he is to Gideaon what Gideon was to the Client? I'd dislike that. Maybe the two of them will ally? Maybe the two of them will fight? Maybe thrawn will be a latter seasons villain? Maybe this is just a nod for futre projects.
Grogu is a fine name, what's wrong with that?
That mercenary at the end is a moron when he looked like he was going to be clever. Disapointed.
Seconding Peelee's opinion about the show being too dark.

How could i forgot about this.

Spoiler: Here's a little something to help you remember

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[Clertar]

I have to say I found the Ahsoka episode underwhelming, which was in itself a little disappointing. I've been fearing that the show would lose in quality and interest the more Jedi- and Filoni-oriented it got, and this confirmed that fear. I hope I'm wrong about it. In any case, I'm glad that people who enjoyed it liked it.

[Dire_Flumph]

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Grogu is a fine name, what's wrong with that?

Spoiler: The Name

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Oh, nothing, to be clear. It just isn't as Toyetic as "The Child" and isn't going to reach wider pop culture like "Baby Yoda". I'm just thrilled beyond words that they didn't do the thing where all members of a species have names that start with the same letter.

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That mercenary at the end is a moron when he looked like he was going to be clever. Disapointed.

Spoiler: He reads like ex-military

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Yeah, as soon as I saw it was Michael Biehn I was hoping he'd be a recurring character. I don't know what he was hoping to accomplish even if he did get the drop on Din, he's 1. Wearing Beskar and 2. Got a Jedi pal who just killed his boss and would likely cut him down.
Surrendering seemed like his only play.

[Petrocorus]

Spoiler: Here's a little something to help you remember

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C'est pas faux!

I really didn't know that i needed this.

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He's exceptional to us in the same way that hyperspace is. But to the people inhabiting the Star Wars galaxy? More specifically, to the people in the Jedi Order? More specifically, to the people in the Jedi Temple on Coruscant, a planet which has a population of 2,000,000,000,000, a third of which are non-human? Lot of "exceptional" creatures from a human PoV, but not so much from a galactic-cosmopolitan PoV.

Fun fact, there are more characters of Yoda's species in the movies than there are of Togrutas. Yes, his species isn't really explored, but that's entirely a Lucas holdover because Lucas was weird. He's the same guy who green-lit Boba Fett being a guy named Jaster Mereel, and then he was Jaster Mereel's son, and then he was Jaster Mereel's adoptive son, and then he was Jaster Mereel's adoptive son's clone, and short version Lucas decided whatever he wanted whenever he wanted with complete disregard for what actually made sense or was consistent. ypda's species were the Whills until they weren't. Then they were a super secret race we know nothing of. Now? Hey, we might actually find out more about them and have it be different than what we've been used to because Lucas doesn't get to say "dance, monkeys" anymore.

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No, i disagree.
Whatever happened behind the scene (i'm not really knowledgeable about this), and however many* characters we saw on screen in the movie, Yoda's species has always been described in the movies, shows, RPG and the few books and comics i read, as being extremely rare and almost unknown from the general population. In the Mandalorian, many people don't even recognize this species, or even wonder if the Child is sentient.
Compared to this, almost all other species of named characters had received additional description somewhere. That include the species of that bearded naga-like jedi master (who may not even have a line) or the one with a super long neck (a quermian IIRC), or species of characters that have only been seen in comics.
We have almost nothing on Yoda's species, not even a name, and 100% of the member of this species we've seen on screen are force-users.
So, this species, even by galactic standards, even probably by Jedi standards, is exceptional.

*Is this English?

Ah, my bad. No, I don't think jeptacks were used all that much in the EU. Best bet would be when Boba Fett was training Jaina Solo, but even then I think they didn't really do much flight, if any. Could be wrong, that wasn't really a stellar series.

ETA: Though it was better than lightsaber helicopters.

I see your point here.
I can go with it because of rule of cool and because it happened only once in a very specific place. But yeah.
I myself was more scratching my head when Ezra basically surfed on Chopper.

Double ETA: Actually, there was a substantial amount of jetpack use in the Gall Spaceport level of the N64 game Shadows of the Empire, which was nowhere near as efficient. But that was entirely due to it being a game mechanic and not wanting it to be broken, similar to the blaster having infinite ammo but every shot depleted a power charge which made subsequent shots less powerful (the charge refilled fairly quickly depending on difficulty level, so it was only very rapid-fire shots that would really get you down into low-power shooting).

The jet-pack in Bounty Hunter was similar. It had a very limited amount of fuel that auto-reload when you're not using it.