The Mandalorian Season 2

[dehro]

Spoiler: well.. this last episode was terrible!

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aside for the feels of Boba Fett returning, the episode was a **** show.
the stormtroopers were worse soldiers than they've been in any previous episode, or film in the star wars universe, that I have seen. Their commanders laughable, and the "acting" and choreography of their attack amateurish. Even the lego stormtroopers walk around with less stilted movements. I felt like they were channeling C3PO.
Why didn't they shoot the mandalorian's ship to bits themselves? they had miniguns mounted on their vessels too.
I know why, to allow for the "shock" reveal of the starship taking its one potshot.. I was thoroughly underwhelmed by this reveal.
I know there were other observations I had when I was watching it, but I am trying to forget.

oh, no..here they come.. the mandalorian trying multiple times to penetrate the shield around Grogu.. did he not learn the first time around that knocked him out?
also...
"so... I can't reach you, so imma go defend you... by climbing down the hill to where I can't possibly see you and keep an eye on you, or, you know, reach you should someone get to you from.. the other side of the hill, that I can't possibly defend on account of how I'm gonna stand all the way over here."

it's as if they were all only given 2 or 3 decent lines and instructions and repeated them multiple times trying to fill the episode.
Also, why is it not standard procedure to sweep your ship for tracking devices? that's got to be the 4th or 5th time in the cinematic universe of star trek (and I bet it happens in the clone wars cartoon too, but I haven't watched it) that the hero is tracked by a physical device secretly installed on their ship.
check your ****ing trunk already!

as good as the previous episode with Ahsoka was, this was terrible to watch.. amateur hour allround, from the script to the visuals. there were moments it reminded me of a bad episode of power rangers .
Jury is still out on whether I like this version of Boba Fett. I would argue however that he's all over the place with his honourable merc shtick.
He did look cool in his armour though...I guess making him look good and the fans squee was the only thing the episode wanted to do.. and that it delivered.
I expected more though.
I do hope the mandalorian remembered to recover his jetpack and that it didn't get lost in the blast

[Hopeless]

So you basically dislike Star Wars given what you disliked about the latest episode has been happening throughout the movies including the prequel and the various animated series?

Curious.

What's your viewpoint on Starship Troopers?

Book, Movie or animated series?

[dancrilis]

Just once that I recall, as opposed to the successful and highly skilled operation by Mandalorians in the three different series I mentioned.

Can't embed multiple videos but here is a few jetpacks being taken advantage of in short order.

Spoiler: Video from Season 7 of Clone Wars

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Then there is Return of the Jedi, and examples in Rebels.

Edit: Not sure why the video is not showing, but here is a link https://youtu.be/3Vum5BQP5k0?t=22

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by dehro
that's got to be the 4th or 5th time in the cinematic universe of star trek

I'm assuming you actually mean Star Wars?

Originally Posted by dancrilis
Can't embed multiple videos but here is a few jetpacks being taken advantage of in short order.

Beginning around 1:24 in that video, we see a dozen or more Mandos flying up behind her and putting their enemies to flight. The lesson isn’t “jetpacks are bad in combat,” but “don’t be on the hero Jedi’s bad side.”

.

[dancrilis]

Beginning around 1:24 in that video, we see a dozen or more Mandos flying up behind her and putting their enemies to flight. The lesson isn’t “jetpacks are bad in combat,” but “don’t be on the hero Jedi’s bad side.”

You don't like that one, here is one from Rebels.
Source: https://youtu.be/qBcV1IjshEo?t=239

Sabine shoots someone in mandalorian armour in the front and the jetback shorts out and they crashes to the ground - the armour itself holds up fine but presumedly the impact from the shots damaged the more sensitive equipment.

I am not saying that they don't use jetpacks successfully in combat - but as a general rule it seems that getting hit while using one is a problem, as such for The Mandalorian to fly above the Stromtroopers and avoid the benefits of cover might not be the best idea and as such retrieving his jetpack might not have been a priority when the stormtroopers showed up.

It has likely happened but I am not remembering any examples of Mandalorians shrugging off blaster first while in flight - my take is the armour makes them very tough, the jetpack makes them very manuverable put them together and you do not get superman.

[Psyren]

In Legends at least, stormtrooper armour was very good vs kinetic weapons such as spears, but poor vs blasters.

Also, good job, Empire. Spears were the biggest threat to stormtroopers, good thing you protected against those.

Yeah! I mean, just think how embarrassing it would be if a bunch of spear-wielding teddy bears routed an entire legion wearing the stuff

Which should be the point where people ditch the armor. At least until they can mass-produce beskar alloy.

I have to wonder why they haven't. With the amount of resources they've been sinking into chasing a muppet baby across charted space... presumably for his midichlorians?... They could have been researching ways to outfit their troops with armor that demonstrably repels blaster fire and even resists lightsabers. Seems a lot more useful in the long run.

[Rakaydos]

Yeah! I mean, just think how embarrassing it would be if a bunch of spear-wielding teddy bears routed an entire legion wearing the stuff



I have to wonder why they haven't. With the amount of resources they've been sinking into chasing a muppet baby across charted space... presumably for his midichlorians?... They could have been researching ways to outfit their troops with armor that demonstrably repels blaster fire and even resists lightsabers. Seems a lot more useful in the long run.

Who says they arnt? *coughdarktrooperscough*

[BRC]

I have to wonder why they haven't. With the amount of resources they've been sinking into chasing a muppet baby across charted space... presumably for his midichlorians?... They could have been researching ways to outfit their troops with armor that demonstrably repels blaster fire and even resists lightsabers. Seems a lot more useful in the long run.

How many groups actually use armor? Besides the Empire and, like, some of Jabba's guards, most troops we see seem to only wear helmets, which could be seen as more about protecting your head from random stuff (Shrapnel, getting knocked down, ect) than actually blocking any direct attacks, since besides Beskar, no actual physical armor has been shown to be remotely effective. IIRC most of the rebel soldiers we saw just wore lightweight clothes with helmets.

[Peelee]

I am not saying that they don't use jetpacks successfully in combat - but as a general rule it seems that getting hit while using one is a problem,

Similarly, soldiers and X-Wing and TIE fighters are successful in combat, but as a general rule it seems getting hit is a problem. So I assume you consider snub fighters or troopers similar to the way you feel about jetpacks?

Yeah! I mean, just think how embarrassing it would be if a bunch of spear-wielding teddy bears routed an entire legion wearing the stuff

Indeed, that's an excellent reason to have it be the other way around.

[Sapphire Guard]

In that Season 7 clip, we also see Mandalorians on the ground getting shot and going down. I don't think we can blame the jetpacks for that.

[dancrilis]

Similarly, soldiers and X-Wing and TIE fighters are successful in combat, but as a general rule it seems getting hit is a problem. So I assume you consider snub fighters or troopers similar to the way you feel about jetpacks?

... yes?

Spoiler: Last Weeks Episode

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If he had retrieved his jetpack and went flying around I could see it being a less tactically sound option then staying on the ground.

Jetpacks have a time and place, when facing dozens of ranged fighters and when you have lots of cover on the ground it might not be that time or place.

Or to use an example without spoilers deploying TIE fighters to defend your capital ships in a space battle is likely a sound idea, deploying Stormtroopers on foot is likely a poorer option for that scenario - different tools for different battles.

[Peelee]

Or to use an example without spoilers deploying TIE fighters to defend your capital ships in a space battle is likely a sound idea

I'm not so sure. Imean, it's possible for the TIEs to get hit if they get sent out.

[dancrilis]

I'm not so sure. Imean, it's possible for the TIEs to get hit if they get sent out.

I am not seeing your point here.

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Do you think it would have been tactically better for Din to use his jetpack in the fight in this episode?

[Peelee]

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Do you think it would have been tactically better for Din to use his jetpack in the fight in this episode?

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I'm saying there's a difference between using a jetpack to fight while suspended in the air for lengthy periods and using a jetpack for tactical maneuvering. Having a jerpsck opens up options that would be unavailable otherwise even if those options don't get used. The positives vastly outweigh the negatives, especially when the negatives are equally applicable to virtually every other person or object in all of Star Wars.

[Clertar]

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I mean, Boba Fett did use his jetpack in that very same encounter. And it was a highly successful tactic to boot.

[dehro]

So you basically dislike Star Wars given what you disliked about the latest episode has been happening throughout the movies including the prequel and the various animated series?

Curious.

What's your viewpoint on Starship Troopers?

Book, Movie or animated series?

Spoiler: courtesy spoiler

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no, I like it well enough..aside from the midichlorian thing, which still rubs me the wrong way, and the last movie, which was a let down plotwise on a number of levels (Snoke, Ray, Palpatine, asspulled magical healing and so on).
I even lolled at the 2 dicktroopers shooting and missing Grogu basically at point blank range in the last season of the Mandalorian..
I don't know what it was in this particular episode, maybe the directing (and I usually like Favreau), maybe the 1 single line the startrooper commanders repeated, like they were bots in a videogame, maybe the fact that they were torn to shreds by a pensioner with a stick after walking right up to him and not shooting at him, or that they noped out of there real quick and seconds before their backup arrived, which just doesn't make sense, because.. comms are a thing. Or the repeated actions and strategic blunders by Din Djarin.. who somehow forgets the definition of insanity as he tries to reach Grogu 3 times in the same way.
Even visually I was underwhelmed.. with all the sparklers going off, I had flashbacks to poor 90's visual effects.
Halfway through the battle I had the distinct feeling they were just dragging it out with repetitions.
Also, when Din places Grogu on the stone... it was shot in a way that just made it glaringly obvious that he was handling a puppet. It looked clumsy. I wish they had spent a few extra dollars on CGI to make that scene look more believable, because it yanked me right out of the immersion.

Starship Troopers, I've only ever seen the movie.. which I laughed at and liked well enough in the same vein in which I liked the vastly superior Independence day. It's a nice adrenaline romp with some witty lines and a few clever ideas in terms of justification of war, evolution of a militarised society and citizenship and such... but I have the feeling these things are probably better explored in other mediums, and I honestly never bothered developing and articulating a viewpoint on Starship Troopers before. I simply didn't bother analysing it and pointing out the tactical and logical plotholes/blunders, such as they were (not going to even now, as I don't remember the details and I never cared enough about that franchise to bother)... Star Wars I care more about. My quality threshold for me to be entertained is really not that high and I will sit through the occasional stinker if I believe in the franchise or overal product or am curious as to where the plot goes... I believe that this last episode was such a stinker.

I'm assuming you actually mean Star Wars?

yes... yes I do

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I'm saying there's a difference between using a jetpack to fight while suspended in the air for lengthy periods

the difference being this option is called skeet

[dancrilis]

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I'm saying there's a difference between using a jetpack to fight while suspended in the air for lengthy periods and using a jetpack for tactical maneuvering. Having a jerpsck opens up options that would be unavailable otherwise even if those options don't get used. The positives vastly outweigh the negatives, especially when the negatives are equally applicable to virtually every other person or object in all of Star Wars.

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So you do think it was a poor tactical decision for him to to retrieve and use it as the benefits outweigh the costs - that is reasonable.

I am thinking that he decided that using it would have exposed him more then not using it and that such exposure was not worth the benefit of wearing it - which I also think is reasonable, and happily works with the episode.

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I mean, Boba Fett did use his jetpack in that very same encounter. And it was a highly successful tactic to boot.

I covered that.

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Fett using at the end was more a surprise for the troopers if they had seen him coming they might have shot him out of the sky as we know that while beskar does protect you from blasters an impact still occurs.

[dehro]

You heard it here first: Grogu is not his real name.
It's actually Yogu... but he keeps getting groggy after using the force and his classmates were *****

I shall see myself out now...

[Clertar]

I covered that.

Right, you're working in the tactical use of the jetpack in battle, for some things like a surprise attack.

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Mando had plenty of chances to use it like that as well. He was not at the battle before he showed up to relieve Fennec, when she was surrounded and cornered. In fact, since they had spotted the ship until he showed up out of nowhere in the late battle, he was outside of combat and jetpacking in should have worked just as well for him as it did for Boba Fett. Maybe better, given that he's slightly more armored up.

[dancrilis]

Right, you're working in the tactical use of the jetpack in battle, for some things like a surprise attack.

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Mando had plenty of chances to use it like that as well. He was not at the battle before he showed up to relieve Fennec, when she was surrounded and cornered. In fact, since they had spotted the ship until he showed up out of nowhere in the late battle, he was outside of combat and jetpacking in should have worked just as well for him as it did for Boba Fett. Maybe better, given that he's slightly more armored up.

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I guess I am more thinking, 'he didn't get his jetpack, could there be sound reasons for that?' and have decided that 'yes there could be' and supported this with the fact that backpacks in Star Wars occassionally have proven a hinderance.

That doesn't mean that he made the right call maybe he would have been better to put it back on - just that it is fairly easy to justify the decision.

[Hopeless]

Regarding the Jet Pack

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He didn't really need it until the Storm Troopers fled and he suddenly watched his ship blown up.
And then noticed the four objects dropped from above heading for the hilltop and he started running with Fennec as he definitely wasn't passing up backup!

Now given this is his first encounter with the Dark Troopers (along with everyone else or has someone at Disney explained their history before Gideon got his hands on them?) he had backup to deal with what looked like either droids or jetpack wearing Storm Troopers.

And given his recent fights with Storm Troopers would he expect them to just pick up Baby Yoda and then rocket back up where they came from?

I actually expected Gideon to deply those troopers on Navarro as punishment for blowing up one of his facilities.

Certainly not what they did!

[Petrocorus]

Starship Troopers, I've only ever seen the movie.. which I laughed at and liked well enough in the same vein in which I liked the vastly superior Independence day.

I guess this is why they say there is no accounting for taste.
In my PoV, your sentence feels so wrong on so many levels.
Independence Day is a S-F blockbuster movie flick with a cheesy plot, IMHO.
Starship Trooper is a satire of militarism and fascism with a few strawman-has-a-point moments, and several levels of reading, which doubled up as a cool S-F war movie.
We really don't have the same PoV here.

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I'm saying there's a difference between using a jetpack to fight while suspended in the air for lengthy periods and using a jetpack for tactical maneuvering. Having a jerpsck opens up options that would be unavailable otherwise even if those options don't get used. The positives vastly outweigh the negatives, especially when the negatives are equally applicable to virtually every other person or object in all of Star Wars.

Spoiler: Jetpack

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I agree with this. The jetpack would have at least been useful to move from the battle to the Stone and reciprocally*.

*I'm pretty sure there could be a better word here. I'm open to suggestion.

[Fyraltari]

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Now given this is his first encounter with the Dark Troopers (along with everyone else or has someone at Disney explained their history before Gideon got his hands on them?) he had backup to deal with what looked like either droids or jetpack wearing Storm Troopers.

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Apparently they already showed up in the nex canon in a game called Commander, here's what I found.

[Peelee]

Anyway, this is why I always chose the jetpack loadout in Halo Reach.

[Wraith]

One thing that occurred to me regarding Din's apparent forgetfulness...

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He was in the middle of a negotiation with Boba and Fennec. The express terms were 'take off your jetpack and I'll call the sniper off while we talk', and that's what he did - he removed his backpack and Fennec stood down.

Then they were still talking, and got interrupted by the arrival of the Empire. But that doesn't mean that their negotiations have come to an end - Mando does stupid things because he's given his word to do so, like helping the Frog Lady or never, ever taking his helmet off no matter how tactically better if might be - and being seen as honourable is important to him.

The implication here is that if he grabbed his jetpack, he would be breaking the truce that, fragile as it was, was the only thing stopping Fennec from shooting Grogu while Din was fighting Stormtroopers. He's putting a huge amount of faith in the assumption that Boba and Fennec are as honourable as he is, but the alternative was to try and fight the Stormtroopers and Boba/Fennec at the same time.

That Boba, later revealed to be a genuine-if-unusual Mandalorian, also said words to the same effect when Din allowed him to keep his armour, suggests that it's not just Din's mentality. Boba admitted that he still felt like he was on the hook for Grogu's safety, which was part of the original arrangement - even though he'd gotten what he wanted and at best had caught himself in a very, very vague definition of "No harm comes to the Child" that most people wouldn't expect to hold him to.

I might be hand-waving away a plot hole by trying to cover it with a wishy-washy 'Mandalorians have a weird code and they never break it even if it kills them' kind of interpretation.... But it does fill on some of the blanks and works with what we know of the Children of the Watch's literal interpretation of honour.

[lowfyr]

Spoiler: Hot take

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I love Dr. Aphra. Not too big on the droids, though. Way too hammy for me.

Great fan of her, too. I would love it if that rumour were true. But seeing we get rumours about the next Disney + Star Wars series by the boatload I will not get my hopes up until we get something substantiell from Disney .

[Devonix]

Sorry, can't say I liked the episode. It's basically the culmination of everything that I was afraid they'd do in the first season and masterfully avoided.

I still enjoy the show but if next season is going to continue down the path it's been headed, then I'm out. Stupid, and out of character decisions, plot contrivances out the wazoo It's becoming fanservice the series rather than it's own thing.

[Peelee]

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That Boba, later revealed to be a genuine-if-unusual Mandalorian

Nope.

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Fett was asked point blank of he was Mandalorian. Not only did he not say yes, he said he didn't pledge allegiance to anyone.

Not a Mandalorian. But does lay rightful claim to his armor.

[BRC]

Nope.

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Fett was asked point blank of he was Mandalorian. Not only did he not say yes, he said he didn't pledge allegiance to anyone.

Not a Mandalorian. But does lay rightful claim to his armor.

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I could see Boba being unsure by which standards he counts as a "Mandalorian". He dosn't know exactly what criteria Djin uses, and claiming he's a Mandalorian when he's Not could cause problems.

It's also possible that Boba doesn't really IDENTIFY himself as a Mandalorian, "It's a creed, not a people" after all, and he was mostly raised by scoundrels and bounty hunters after Jango's death.

Djin's Standard is that Boba is the son of Jango, a foundling, which makes Boba a Mandalorian.


By the standards of a proud Mandalorian family, Jango may not be a Mandalorian, because he was a foundling.

By some people's standards, Jango may be a Mandalorian, but Boba, as his clone, might not be, since if Boba is a Mandalorian, so were all the clone troopers.

By some people's standards, Jango might have been a Mandalorian, but gave up that claim when he took up the life of a bounty hunter.

By some standards, Jango may have been Mandalorian, but Boba, who was not raised with any aspect of Mandalorian culture besides the armor, can't make that claim.

By Djin's standards, Bo Katan "Former Regent of Mandalore" Kryze doesn't count because she takes her helmet off (Although he doesn't mind Boba taking his helmet off once he gets it back, so).



Boba doesn't say whether or not he's Mandalorian, so he doesn't offend Djin's sensibilities. He instead just says "The armor is rightfully mine".


There's the line in Clone Wars from Vice-minister what'shisface about "Jango Fett is a common bounty hunter", which could be either the vice-minister REJECTING Jango Fett as a mandalorian, or just not knowing the names of literally every kid adopted by a Mandalorian. If Jango's name "Fett" isn't the name of the Mandalorian who adopted him, then the vice-minister would likely have first heard about him as a Notorious Bounty Hunter Wearing Mandalorian Armor, and would probably not have bothered to look through the adoption records of the planet to see if anybody adopted a kid named Jango Fett and gave him armor.

[Peelee]

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I could see Boba being unsure by which standards he counts as a "Mandalorian". He dosn't know exactly what criteria Djin uses, and claiming he's a Mandalorian when he's Not could cause problems.

It's also possible that Boba doesn't really IDENTIFY himself as a Mandalorian, "It's a creed, not a people" after all, and he was mostly raised by scoundrels and bounty hunters after Jango's death.

Djin's Standard is that Boba is the son of Jango, a foundling, which makes Boba a Mandalorian.


By the standards of a proud Mandalorian family, Jango may not be a Mandalorian, because he was a foundling.

By some people's standards, Jango may be a Mandalorian, but Boba, as his clone, might not be, since if Boba is a Mandalorian, so were all the clone troopers.

By some people's standards, Jango might have been a Mandalorian, but gave up that claim when he took up the life of a bounty hunter.

By some standards, Jango may have been Mandalorian, but Boba, who was not raised with any aspect of Mandalorian culture besides the armor, can't make that claim.

By Djin's standards, Bo Katan "Former Regent of Mandalore" Kryze doesn't count because she takes her helmet off (Although he doesn't mind Boba taking his helmet off once he gets it back, so).



Boba doesn't say whether or not he's Mandalorian, so he doesn't offend Djin's sensibilities. He instead just says "The armor is rightfully mine".


There's the line in Clone Wars from Vice-minister what'shisface about "Jango Fett is a common bounty hunter", which could be either the vice-minister REJECTING Jango Fett as a mandalorian, or just not knowing the names of literally every kid adopted by a Mandalorian. If Jango's name "Fett" isn't the name of the Mandalorian who adopted him, then the vice-minister would likely have first heard about him as a Notorious Bounty Hunter Wearing Mandalorian Armor, and would probably not have bothered to look through the adoption records of the planet to see if anybody adopted a kid named Jango Fett and gave him armor.

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It's a creed. Boba Fett all but openly admitted he does not subscribe to it. Seems pretty cut and dry.